16:51:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #htmlspeech
16:51:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-htmlspeech-irc
16:51:57 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #htmlspeech
16:52:15 <burn> trackbot, start telcon
16:52:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:52:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
16:52:19 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
16:52:20 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Speech Incubator Group Teleconference
16:52:20 <trackbot> Date: 17 November 2011
16:52:24 <burn> zakim, this will be htmlspeech
16:52:25 <Zakim> ok, burn; I see INC_(HTMLSPEECH)11:30AM scheduled to start 22 minutes ago
16:52:33 <burn> Chair:  Dan_Burnett
16:53:09 <burn> Agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/0072.html
16:56:12 <Zakim> INC_(HTMLSPEECH)11:30AM has now started
16:56:19 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:57:06 <mbodell> mbodell has joined #htmlspeech
16:57:18 <Zakim> +Milan_Young
16:57:20 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:57:22 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:57:36 <Milan> Milan has joined #HtmlSpeech
16:59:18 <Zakim> +Michael_Bodell
16:59:24 <smaug> smaug has joined #htmlspeech
16:59:56 <burn> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:59:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller], Milan_Young, Michael_Bodell
17:00:03 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
17:00:09 <smaug> that is me
17:00:33 <burn> zakim, [IPcaller] is Dan_Burnett
17:00:34 <Zakim> +Dan_Burnett; got it
17:00:47 <burn> zakim, [IPcaller.a] is Olli_Pettay
17:00:47 <Zakim> +Olli_Pettay; got it
17:01:22 <ddahl1> ddahl1 has joined #htmlspeech
17:01:48 <Charles> Charles has joined #htmlspeech
17:02:06 <Zakim> +Debbie_Dahl
17:02:11 <bringert> bringert has joined #htmlspeech
17:02:52 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:03:16 <glen> glen has joined #htmlspeech
17:03:46 <burn> zakim, Joseph_Scheuhammer is Bjorn_Bringert,Satish_Sampath
17:04:09 <Zakim> +Bjorn_Bringert,Satish_Sampath; got it
17:04:17 <Zakim> +Charles_Hemphill
17:04:38 <smaug> Zakim, nick smaug is Olli_Pettay
17:04:58 <Zakim> ok, smaug, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay
17:05:06 <Zakim> + +1.650.253.aaaa
17:05:08 <Zakim> + +1.425.381.aabb
17:05:31 <Milan> Scribe: Milan
17:05:35 <burn> zakim, aaaa is Glen_Shires
17:05:35 <Zakim> +Glen_Shires; got it
17:06:03 <burn> zakim, aabb is Dan_Druta
17:06:03 <Zakim> +Dan_Druta; got it
17:06:20 <burn> ScribeNick: Milan
17:06:44 <burn> Agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/0072.html 
17:07:01 <Milan> Topic: Review final report
17:07:17 <Zakim> -Bjorn_Bringert,Satish_Sampath
17:07:21 <Milan> Dan: Content complete
17:07:41 <Milan> ... but a few editorial nits remain
17:07:48 <Zakim> +Bjorn_Bringert,Satish_Sampath
17:09:03 <Milan> ... contentfull changes have been available for public review
17:09:25 <Milan> Debbie: I'd like to review changes
17:10:12 <Milan> Bjorn: Add discussion about future working group to agenda today
17:11:37 <burn> first set of changes:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/0067.html
17:17:04 <burn> second list of changes:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/0071.html
17:21:33 <Milan> Burn: Any questions?
17:21:49 <Milan> ... OK, no questions
17:22:33 <Milan> Debbie: Need more explanation behind DanD's diagram.
17:22:46 <Milan> ... but maybe not necessary because it'
17:22:56 <Milan> ... it is just explanitory
17:23:30 <Milan> Burn: Probably a major effort to add detailed wording
17:24:07 <Milan> Debbie: Perhaps I can take a look to find low-hanging fruit that brings clairity
17:24:46 <Milan> Burn: Need to stop edits in about one week
17:25:35 <Milan> Glen: One sample has allot of psudeo code
17:25:48 <Milan> ... and TODOs
17:26:08 <Milan> Burn: Agree
17:27:43 <MJ> MJ has joined #htmlspeech
17:27:49 <Zakim> + +1.212.341.aacc
17:28:01 <Milan> Michael: I will look at that example
17:28:16 <burn> zakim, aacc is Michael_Johnston
17:28:16 <Zakim> +Michael_Johnston; got it
17:28:35 <glen> sample is "Speech Enabled Email Client"
17:28:55 <glen> particularly onMicClicked method
17:29:12 <Milan> Topic: Satish's proposal to move methods into collections
17:29:16 <burn> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/0064.html
17:30:36 <Milan> Burn: I'm comfortable either way
17:30:42 <Milan> ... other comments?
17:31:34 <Milan> Milan: Nice to be able to add collection as a whole
17:32:37 <Milan> Satish: Yes, this was part of the design
17:32:51 <Milan> Dan: I also like this
17:33:17 <smaug> looks ok to me
17:34:01 <Milan> Dan: Objections to making this change?
17:34:10 <ddahl1> i think this is a good idea
17:34:16 <Milan> ... OK, I'll make the change
17:34:34 <Milan> Topic: Next steps
17:34:51 <Milan> Dan: Editorial cleanup and short summary
17:35:25 <Milan> ... questions?
17:35:52 <Milan> Bjourn: Good work so far
17:36:09 <Milan> ... Need input from all browser vendors
17:36:45 <Milan> ... Google will not join working group unless all browser vendors also join
17:37:11 <Milan> ... And bring our work to the attention to the HTML working groups
17:38:02 <Milan> ... Need Apple and Opera as well as Mozilla, Chrome, and IE
17:38:27 <Milan> MBodell: Will not get participation if going to WhatWG
17:38:36 <Milan> ... IE participation
17:39:01 <Milan> Bjorn: Need more browser discussion, not more speech discussion
17:39:16 <Milan> Dan: And also web developer participation
17:40:03 <Milan> ... best feedback will probably result from a more focused group
17:40:18 <Milan> Bjorn: Yes, as long as all vendors are present
17:40:43 <Milan> Satish: Haven't heard from Opera and Apple
17:40:59 <Milan> Dan: Yes, I've tried
17:41:29 <Milan> ... Charter proposal will be circulated, and we can add strong wording
17:42:04 <Milan> MichaelJ: I made a request to Apple
17:42:15 <Milan> ... perhaps we could be happy with 4/5
17:42:38 <Milan> Bjorn: Then need to take discussion to where they are
17:43:04 <Milan> Dan: This is a significant change in position from Google
17:43:45 <Milan> Bjorn: Continued work is almost pointless without browser vendords
17:44:33 <Milan> Statish: For example, if we proceed in a silo, we will not know if what we produce will be palitable
17:45:07 <Milan> Bjorn: Yes, will be a waste to flesh out details if fundamentals are not strong
17:46:16 <Milan> MichaelJ: Most significant point is the reco element wrt the HTML WG
17:46:35 <Milan> ... But JS may not produce as much feedback
17:47:21 <Milan> Bjorn: To be clear, I'm not referring to protocol.  And JS API is included with declarative.
17:48:00 <Milan> ... we'll get good feedback when we post XG results
17:48:27 <Milan> Dan: Purpose of group is to give a home to feedback requests
17:48:44 <Milan> ... and will be best in a dedicated group
17:50:04 <Milan> Michael: Nobody is against posting this
17:50:16 <Milan> ... to a location of choosing
17:50:27 <Milan> Dan: The question is where to handle that feedback
17:50:48 <Milan> ... HTML WG is a good major source of comments
17:51:01 <Milan> Bjorn: But where does the discussion happen?
17:52:18 <Milan> Ollie: Do you expect that HTML WG will produce a separate specification or incorporate into existing spec?
17:52:26 <Milan> Bjorn: Don't care
17:52:48 <Milan> Satish: Should be left to the editor
17:53:15 <Milan> Ollie: HTML spec is too large, and this will be lost
17:53:26 <Milan> ... so prefer a dedicated spec
17:53:40 <Milan> Dan: I'm involved in WebRTC
17:53:56 <Milan> ... similar dicussions
17:54:13 <Milan> ... and there is a large amount of independent feedback
17:54:37 <Milan> ... so it's a framework that is functional
17:56:44 <Milan> Debbie: What about an interest group that forms in the interim?
17:57:24 <Milan> Bjorn: Yes, good idea to take a pause for feedback, but maybe don't need formal structure
17:57:47 <Milan> Michael: Want to see this on a standards track
17:58:07 <Milan> ... so don't want it in an informal group
17:58:35 <Milan> Debbie: Interest group is a formal W3C structure, but agree not a standards track
17:59:26 <Milan> Dan: OK with Bjorn's idea as long as we don't creat a spec
17:59:49 <Milan> MIchael: Feedback is different that standarizing
18:00:47 <Milan> Bjorn: Let's keep XG, and its main purpose should be to collect feedback
18:01:22 <Milan> Michael: Do not want to move discussion outside W3C
18:01:35 <Milan> Bjorn: Would like to include WhatWG
18:02:07 <Milan> Michael: Want to start a new WG for that
18:04:23 <Milan> Dan: WhatWG doesn't include all browser vendors
18:06:02 <Milan> Bjorn: We can separate topics of feedback of spec building
18:06:22 <Milan> Michael: Fine as long as discussion doesn't build specs
18:07:44 <Milan> Dan: WebRTC and its own WG.  List is monitored by WhatWG
18:08:21 <Milan> ... interesting WhatWG discussion is brought to the attention of the WG
18:08:43 <Milan> ... and the Google chair of the group has support of Hixie
18:09:14 <Milan> ... this is a working process
18:09:30 <Milan> ... so how is our group different?
18:09:42 <smaug> Hmm, is it possible that Apple doesn't participate this work because of IP issues ? If that is the case, this work couldn't go to HTML WG
18:10:30 <Milan> Satish: Perhaps because our group doesn't touch because of declaritive
18:15:40 <Milan> Dan: Charter of working group forces this class of discussion by all major browser vendors
18:19:39 <Zakim> + +1.650.279.aadd
18:20:19 <glen> zakim, aadd is Glen_Shires
18:20:19 <Zakim> +Glen_Shires; got it
18:20:27 <Milan> Bjorn: Most important thing is wide feedback
18:20:58 <Milan> MichaelJ: Can run into problems with focusing too much on feedback, because bogs progress
18:21:37 <Milan> ... but W3C does require addressing feedback as approach last call
18:22:41 <Milan> MichaelB: External discussion is fine, but spec work must take place in W3C
18:23:30 <Milan> Dan: Dicussion is fine, but decisions need to be made in SDL
18:23:39 <Milan> ... SDO
18:24:10 <Milan> ... For example VoiceXML forum and VBWG
18:25:28 <Milan> Bjorn: Need commitment to listen to external feedback
18:25:44 <Milan> Michael: That's already part of W3C
18:25:55 <Milan> Dan: Must address every public comment
18:26:16 <Milan> ... tracked and recorded
18:26:38 <Milan> ... disagreements are escalated 
18:27:12 <Milan> Michael: As long as comments are sent to the W3C
18:27:45 <Milan> Bjorn: Google would like to think about this more internally
18:27:58 <Milan> ... can we discuss on mailing list?
18:28:18 <Milan> Dan: We are almost out of time
18:28:54 <Milan> ... may need to schedule an emergency call
18:29:46 <Milan> ... recommend contacting Harold A from WebRTC
18:30:14 <Milan> Michael: Please also proof the draft
18:30:47 <Milan> Glen: Schedule call for December 1st.
18:31:08 <Milan> ... or at least reserve it
18:32:11 <Zakim> -Glen_Shires.a
18:32:27 <Milan> MichaelJ: Correction to minutes
18:33:10 <Milan> ... comment was that we shouldn't worry about not addressing feedback within W3C.  Safety checks are in place.
18:33:31 <Zakim> -Olli_Pettay
18:33:32 <Zakim> -Glen_Shires
18:33:32 <Zakim> -Bjorn_Bringert,Satish_Sampath
18:33:33 <Zakim> -Michael_Johnston
18:33:34 <Zakim> -Michael_Bodell
18:33:35 <Zakim> -Debbie_Dahl
18:33:36 <Zakim> -Milan_Young
18:33:44 <burn> rrsagent, make logs public
18:33:45 <Zakim> -Charles_Hemphill
18:33:55 <burn> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:33:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-htmlspeech-minutes.html burn
18:34:29 <Zakim> -Dan_Burnett
18:34:43 <burn> zakim, who's on the phone?
18:34:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see Dan_Druta
18:36:58 <burn> zakim, bye
18:36:58 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Milan_Young, Michael_Bodell, Dan_Burnett, Olli_Pettay, Debbie_Dahl, Bjorn_Bringert,Satish_Sampath, Charles_Hemphill, +1.650.253.aaaa,
18:36:58 <Zakim> Zakim has left #htmlspeech
18:37:01 <Zakim> ... +1.425.381.aabb, Glen_Shires, Dan_Druta, +1.212.341.aacc, Michael_Johnston, +1.650.279.aadd
18:38:01 <burn> Present: Milan_Young, Michael_Bodell, Dan_Burnett, Olli_Pettay, Debbie_Dahl, Bjorn_Bringert, Satish_Sampath, Charles_Hemphill, Glen_Shires, Dan_Druta, Michael_Johnston
18:38:07 <burn> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:38:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-htmlspeech-minutes.html burn
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