14:46:15 RRSAgent has joined #dap 14:46:15 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/16-dap-irc 14:46:17 RRSAgent, make logs world 14:46:17 Zakim has joined #dap 14:46:19 Zakim, this will be DAP 14:46:19 ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes 14:46:20 Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference 14:46:20 Date: 16 November 2011 14:53:31 Kihong_Kwon has joined #dap 14:53:33 UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started 14:53:35 + +1.289.261.aaaa 14:54:51 fjh has joined #dap 14:55:12 trackbot, start telecon 14:55:15 RRSAgent, make logs world 14:55:17 Zakim, this will be DAP 14:55:17 ok, trackbot, I see UW_DAP()10:00AM already started 14:55:18 Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference 14:55:18 Date: 16 November 2011 14:57:26 spoussa has joined #dap 14:57:28 Dzung_Tran has joined #dap 14:57:34 Present+ Dzung_Tran 14:57:47 Clarke has joined #dap 14:57:55 Present+ Clarke_Stevens 14:58:28 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Nov/0139.html 14:58:39 +??P7 14:58:41 -??P7 14:58:41 +??P7 14:58:58 zakim, ??P7 is Clarke 14:58:59 +Clarke; got it 14:59:34 + +1.503.333.aabb 14:59:41 Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch 14:59:48 Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch 15:00:06 + +46.1.07.15.aacc 15:00:17 nwidell has joined #dap 15:00:25 zakin, aabb is spoussa 15:00:35 Zakim, aabb is spoussa 15:00:35 +spoussa; got it 15:00:47 +??P11 15:00:50 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen 15:00:55 +??P12 15:00:56 zakim, ??P11 is me 15:00:56 Present+ Kihong_Kwon 15:00:57 +AnssiK; got it 15:01:00 \ 15:01:01 Zakim, ??P12 is me 15:01:01 +dom; got it 15:01:16 Present+ Sakari_Poussa 15:01:21 + +33.1.43.14.aadd 15:01:25 Claes has joined #dap 15:01:28 Present+ Niklas_Widell 15:01:29 Zakim, aadd is me 15:01:29 +darobin; got it 15:01:35 Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux 15:01:37 Ais has joined #dap 15:01:42 Present+ Claes_Nilsson 15:02:01 Present+ Anders_Isberg 15:02:04 + +86255662aaee 15:02:06 wonsuk has joined #dap 15:02:09 +[IPcaller] 15:02:18 Zakim, who's noisy? 15:02:29 dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: darobin (72%), +86255662aaee (5%), [IPcaller] (44%) 15:02:38 zakim /me ok 'll try algain 15:02:42 -[IPcaller] 15:02:47 lovely :( 15:03:10 + +46.1.08.00.aaff 15:03:20 +Frederick_Hirsch 15:03:29 Zakim, aaff is Claes 15:03:30 +Claes; got it 15:03:34 timeless has joined #dap 15:03:45 Zakim, who's on the call? 15:03:45 On the phone I see +1.289.261.aaaa, Clarke, spoussa, +46.1.07.15.aacc, AnssiK, dom, darobin, +86255662aaee, Claes, Frederick_Hirsch 15:03:59 Zakim, aacc is nwidell 15:03:59 +nwidell; got it 15:03:59 Zakim, aaaa is me 15:04:01 +Josh_Soref; got it 15:04:06 Zakim, who's on the call? 15:04:06 On the phone I see Josh_Soref, Clarke, spoussa, nwidell, AnssiK, dom, darobin, +86255662aaee, Claes, Frederick_Hirsch 15:04:33 Zakim, who is making noise? 15:04:44 Josh_Soref, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: darobin (54%), +86255662aaee (54%), Frederick_Hirsch (4%) 15:04:49 zakim, mute me 15:04:49 Cathy has joined #dap 15:04:49 sorry, fjh, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 15:05:00 Zakim, mute Frederick_Hirsch 15:05:00 Frederick_Hirsch should now be muted 15:05:05 zakim, Frederick_Hirsch is me 15:05:05 +fjh; got it 15:05:18 Scribe: Josh_Soref 15:05:31 Present+ Cathy_Chan 15:05:42 Present+ Josh_Soref 15:05:44 +??P20 15:05:46 Zakim, who is making noise? 15:05:50 zakim, ??P20 is me 15:05:50 +Cathy; got it 15:05:59 Josh_Soref, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +86255662aaee (27%) 15:06:10 Zakim: mute aaee 15:06:12 Topic: Administrative 15:06:13 Please complete questionnaire for dates of next F2F in March 2012: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2011Nov/0003.html (Dom) 15:06:14 Review: Geolocation WG will publish the DeviceOrientation Event specification as a Last Call - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2011Nov/0002.html 15:06:21 s/Zakim: mute aaee// 15:06:25 A big thank you to Josh for scribing the F2F 15:06:32 Zakim, mute +86255662aaee 15:06:32 +86255662aaee should now be muted 15:06:32 +1 15:06:35 zakim, who is here? 15:06:35 On the phone I see Josh_Soref, Clarke, spoussa, nwidell, AnssiK, dom, darobin, +86255662aaee (muted), Claes, fjh (muted), Cathy 15:06:37 On IRC I see Cathy, Josh_Soref, wonsuk, Ais, Claes, nwidell, Clarke, Dzung_Tran, spoussa, fjh, Kihong_Kwon, Zakim, RRSAgent, AnssiK, dcoloma, darobin, richt, rektide, ilkka, 15:06:39 ... lgombos, trackbot, mounir, dom 15:07:00 zakim, unmute me 15:07:00 fjh should no longer be muted 15:07:45 fjh: There's a Survey, with 3 weeks available 15:07:50 ... please fill it in 15:08:04 +wonsuk 15:08:06 ... especially possible hosts, please look into whether you're available 15:08:07 - +86255662aaee 15:08:11 R_Berkoff has joined #dap 15:08:13 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Nov/0131.html 15:08:14 +1 to approve the minutes 15:08:19 Topic: Minutes Approval 15:08:29 RESOLUTION: Minutes from F2F are approved 15:08:36 Topic: Vibration API 15:08:45 CfC to publish FPWD, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Nov/0016.html 15:08:46 proposed RESOLUTION: Publish FPWD of Vibration API on 22 November 2011 15:08:48 +1 to publish FPWD 15:08:55 +1 15:09:07 q+ 15:09:12 ack AnssiK 15:09:17 +1 on FPWD 15:09:24 +1 to FPWD 15:09:27 +1 15:09:29 +1 too 15:09:32 AnssiK: there's a discussion about Method Overloading and XXX 15:09:40 ... but that shouldn't hold up a FPWD 15:09:50 RESOLUTION: Publish FPWD of Vibration API 15:09:51 + +86255662aagg 15:09:52 ACTION: Robin to publish Vibration FPWD 15:09:52 Created ACTION-488 - Publish Vibration FPWD [on Robin Berjon - due 2011-11-23]. 15:10:05 fjh: I'm away next week, darobin please arrange for next week + publication 15:10:25 q+ 15:10:30 DAP API Requirements - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Nov/0027.html 15:10:31 System information - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Nov/0028.html 15:10:31 Messaging API - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Nov/0029.html 15:10:31 Gallery API - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Nov/0035.html 15:10:32 Suggested change to warning text: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Nov/0123.html (Frederick) 15:10:32 discussion re system information. 15:10:34 proposed RESOLUTION: Update status of editors drafts to indicate shelving, for DAP API Requirements, System Information, Messaging, Gallery APIs and update Roadmap to move to archived section. 15:10:45 s/XXX/type coercion/ 15:10:49 q? 15:11:03 darobin: I'm going to tweak YYY on jcantera's input 15:11:08 ack Claes 15:11:22 Claes: I'm reading the new warning text here 15:11:25 + +44.208.144.aahh 15:11:28 ... I have a comment on the Gallery API 15:11:33 +1 to shelve all the above 15:11:37 zakim, aahh is me 15:11:37 +richt; got it 15:11:42 Present+ Rich_Tibbett 15:11:43 ... If we shelve that API, I need to know what that means 15:11:58 s/YYY/the Shelving proposal/ 15:12:14 ... We have work based on it 15:12:21 ... If we shelve it, can we reopen it at any time? 15:12:22 slightlyoff has joined #dap 15:12:25 darobin: definitely 15:12:32 ... we have a problem, we've published a bunch of documents 15:12:38 ... some we're currently working on 15:12:43 ... some which we haven't worked on recently 15:12:49 if shelved we note the document should not be used, we aren't working on it, but we can always resume the work etc 15:12:52 ... there's a certain amount of confusion about what we're doing 15:13:01 ... among people outside the WG 15:13:23 ... some of our documents haven't had a refresh because we haven't reached a newer conclusion 15:13:39 zakim, mute me 15:13:40 fjh should now be muted 15:13:42 ... With shelving, we're just adding a Warning that it's not our current belief 15:13:54 ... we can at a later time remove the shelving warning 15:14:05 ... either updating the document to a new view 15:14:14 ... or having decided we like the view as published 15:14:18 Claes: so for Webinos 15:14:23 ... if we have input 15:14:23 zakim, unmute me 15:14:23 fjh should no longer be muted 15:14:29 shelving is not a charter change 15:14:33 darobin: everything in the Charter, if we have new input 15:14:40 ... we can continue working on at any time 15:14:50 fjh: It's just about making clear what's going on 15:14:57 ... There's been discussion about SysInfo as well 15:15:04 ... But i'd suggest we do this for now 15:15:11 darobin: I'd suggest we go ahead and do it 15:15:15 proposed RESOLUTION: Update status of editors drafts to indicate shelving, for DAP API Requirements, System Information, Messaging, Gallery APIs and update Roadmap to move to archived section. 15:15:15 ... it's reversible 15:15:33 q+ to speak on shelving text 15:15:41 zakim, mute me 15:15:41 fjh should now be muted 15:15:45 Dzung_Tran: I have concerns about shelving Device API Requirements 15:15:57 ... it would be fine if we could have what is discussed in this warning text 15:16:00 s/Dzung_Tran/Deepanshu 15:16:08 ... this warning text implies that this document can be taken up in future 15:16:27 ... but I have been told that the group has decided not to revise that Document 15:16:44 Zakim, who is on the call? 15:16:44 On the phone I see Josh_Soref, Clarke, spoussa, nwidell, AnssiK, dom, darobin, Claes, fjh (muted), Cathy, wonsuk, +86255662aagg, richt 15:16:53 ... so the Warning text for the Requirements document should be changed to address that 15:16:58 Zakim, aagg is Deepanshu_Gautam 15:16:58 +Deepanshu_Gautam; got it 15:17:04 [ I think that for requirements gathering wiki might work better ] 15:17:07 zakim, unmute me 15:17:07 fjh should no longer be muted 15:17:10 darobin: We said that the Warning text should be specific to the individual shelved documents 15:17:13 ack Josh_Soref 15:17:13 Josh_Soref, you wanted to speak on shelving text 15:17:19 zakim, mute me 15:17:19 fjh should now be muted 15:17:25 ACTION: Robin to prepare Requirements, SysInfo, Messaging, Gallery for shelving (wait for text from Deepanshu for Reqs) 15:17:26 Created ACTION-489 - Prepare Requirements, SysInfo, Messaging, Gallery for shelving (wait for text from Deepanshu for Reqs) [on Robin Berjon - due 2011-11-23]. 15:17:42 josh_soref: spoke with Suresh, will also try to suggest text 15:17:47 zakim, unmute 15:17:47 I don't understand 'unmute', fjh 15:17:53 zakim, unmute me 15:17:53 fjh should no longer be muted 15:18:05 ACTION-489: wait for text from Josh, include input from Jose and Frederick 15:18:05 ACTION-489 Prepare Requirements, SysInfo, Messaging, Gallery for shelving (wait for text from Deepanshu for Reqs) notes added 15:18:32 dom has changed the topic to: DAP teleconf agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Nov/0139.html 15:18:41 proposed RESOLUTION: Update status of editors drafts to indicate shelving, for DAP API Requirements, System Information, Messaging, Gallery APIs and update Roadmap to move to archived section. 15:18:59 q+ 15:19:13 Zakim, mute me 15:19:13 Josh_Soref should now be muted 15:19:25 ack wonsuk 15:19:33 zakim, mute me 15:19:33 fjh should now be muted 15:19:44 darobin: I need to coordinate with w3 communications so that we don't get Announced for these documents 15:19:54 fjh: I'd agree it's best that we don't Annoucne 15:19:58 s/cne/nce/ 15:20:18 zakim, unmute me 15:20:18 fjh should no longer be muted 15:20:56 no, wonsuk was arguing for integrating requirements in each spec, to make it easier for the reader 15:21:37 timeless has joined #dap 15:21:44 zakim, unmute me 15:21:44 fjh was not muted, fjh 15:22:07 +1 to Wonsuk 15:22:33 fjh: there's a Draft Charter 15:22:46 ... we're just waiting for the mailing list to be created 15:22:51 ... dom, do you know its status? 15:22:53 Topic: WebIntents Task Force 15:22:53 draft charter, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Nov/0054.html 15:22:53 dom: I don't 15:22:59 ... I think shepazu is in charge of this 15:23:03 s/Topic/Topic:/ 15:23:08 ... but he's at the W3C conference right now 15:23:15 ... there was some concern about the Naming 15:23:22 ... and there was a concern about ZZZ 15:23:34 s/ZZZ/naming/ 15:23:40 darobin: in terms of naming, I think that ship has sailed 15:23:45 zakim, mute me 15:23:45 fjh should now be muted 15:23:56 zakim, unmute me 15:23:56 fjh should no longer be muted 15:23:56 darobin: we'll just have a mailing list 15:24:01 ... i'd rather not use the same system 15:24:07 ... it was rather buggy last time around 15:24:23 need a task force for IPR obligations 15:24:26 dom: there's an issue of who is Formally a Member of the TF 15:24:40 ... we want an open mailing list where anyone can subscribe 15:25:14 s/not use the same system/not use the same system as used for public-device-status/ 15:25:22 darobin: We can track who contributed 15:25:27 ... by following the mailing list 15:25:33 ... and seeing who has made the IPR commitments 15:25:40 ... in the same way we track the DAP public mailing list 15:25:47 dom: AAA 15:25:56 darobin: if there are big concerns, we can do something else 15:26:03 s/AAA/so ok with just having a mailing list? 15:26:10 ... but I don't see how this is different from DAP's public mailing list or WebApps, etc. 15:26:17 fjh: I'll talk w/ shepazu 15:26:28 q+ to talk about delays 15:26:36 darobin: I don't know that there's much to talk about beyond that 15:26:36 ack Josh_Soref 15:26:37 ack Josh_Soref 15:26:38 Josh_Soref, you wanted to talk about delays 15:27:05 Josh_Soref concerned about delays and cross-posting, so wants this to be done quickly 15:27:18 darobin: we all agree 15:27:26 Zakim, mute me 15:27:28 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Nov/0058.html 15:27:28 Josh_Soref should now be muted 15:27:32 Topic: Web API Design Cookbook 15:27:34 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Nov/0058.html 15:27:37 http://scriptlib-cg.github.com/api-design-cookbook/ 15:27:46 fjh: darobin, I know you've worked on this 15:27:49 zakim, mute me 15:27:49 fjh should now be muted 15:27:51 ... i don't know if there's much more to do 15:27:59 darobin: this has been done openly on GitHub 15:28:01 https://github.com/scriptlib-cg/api-design-cookbook 15:28:09 ... if you want changes made to it, you just clone from the repository 15:28:11 ... make your changes 15:28:15 ... and make a pull request 15:28:19 ... and then i'll integrate them 15:28:27 ... it's handled like a regular open source project 15:28:33 ... it's like a Cook Book 15:28:38 ... and not a BBB 15:28:53 ... The idea is to help people writing APIs inside or outside of W3C 15:28:58 ... to be able to refer to this document 15:29:02 ... to find best practices 15:29:06 ... input is welcome 15:29:12 ... preferably in the form of patches 15:29:15 ... but otherwise as well 15:29:19 zakim, unmute me 15:29:19 fjh should no longer be muted 15:29:20 ... Two sections have been fleshed out 15:29:25 ... but others are coming 15:29:30 Topic: Battery 15:29:30 q+ 15:29:35 fjh: AnssiK, where are we? 15:29:37 ack AnssiK 15:29:38 ack AnssiK 15:29:43 zakim, unmute me 15:29:43 fjh was not muted, fjh 15:29:47 zakim, mute me 15:29:47 fjh should now be muted 15:29:48 Zakim, who's noisy? 15:29:58 To make clear our specs, an requirement part should be included to the each spec to make it easier for the reader. In addition to make a consistency among requirement and other parts of the spec. 15:29:58 dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Deepanshu_Gautam (94%), darobin (55%), AnssiK (15%) 15:30:09 Zakim, mute deepanshu_gautam 15:30:11 Deepanshu_Gautam should now be muted 15:30:23 AnssiK: last time we discussed the topic at the F2F 15:30:30 ... the only remaining issue was the Threshold feature 15:30:36 ... spoussa sent a proposal 15:30:41 ... it was discussed on the mailing list 15:31:03 ... we found out that we don't have a design that meets the quality requirements 15:31:08 ... so we're going to push it to v2 15:31:16 ... given that, we're ready for CfC to LC 15:31:22 ... so we can iron out any last bits 15:31:35 ... I'd like to note that this is shipping in Firefox 10 (Aurora) 15:31:39 ... so you can grab that 15:31:40 +1 to CfC for Last Call 15:31:40 [that will only work on Android or Linux] 15:31:42 ... that's about it 15:31:45 zakim, unmute me 15:31:45 fjh should no longer be muted 15:31:51 +1 15:31:54 +1 to CfC for Last Call 15:31:54 +1 15:32:16 fjh: dom / darobin : any concerns about CfC to LC? 15:32:19 darobin: not at all 15:32:26 fjh: let's do this 15:32:37 ... AnssiK, can you do the paper/prep work for LC? 15:32:43 AnssiK: I haven't done it, but i'm willing to learn 15:32:49 darobin: sure, we can help you 15:32:54 darobin: I'll do the CfC 15:32:57 fjh: great 15:33:04 ACTION: Robin to CfC Battery LC 15:33:04 Created ACTION-490 - CfC Battery LC [on Robin Berjon - due 2011-11-23]. 15:33:09 Topic: Discovery API 15:33:12 fjh: there's a demo online 15:33:16 ... i'm not sure what else is new 15:33:19 discovery demo online, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Nov/0085.html 15:33:21 Zakim, who is on the call? 15:33:21 On the phone I see Josh_Soref (muted), Clarke, spoussa, nwidell, AnssiK, dom, darobin, Claes, fjh, Cathy, wonsuk, Deepanshu_Gautam (muted), richt 15:33:29 ... i don't know if Clarke is on the call 15:33:39 ... i don't know if there's anything to discuss 15:33:47 darobin: I don't think so 15:33:52 ... a lot of the action has been around Intents 15:33:56 ... and Battery and Vibration 15:34:02 zakim, mute me 15:34:02 fjh should now be muted 15:34:08 ... before the call, I sent a draft of a Media Capture TF charter 15:34:11 http://www.w3.org/mid/22C84B78-685C-4B6F-85E4-A12BC073D075@berjon.com 15:34:20 ... another Joint TF 15:34:31 i/think so/Topic: AOB 15:34:34 ... we' 15:34:44 regrets from me for next week 15:34:49 s/we'/we're trying to get that off the ground quickly 15:34:54 zakim, unmute me 15:34:54 fjh should no longer be muted 15:34:57 q? 15:35:04 ... The WebRTC people want to get it out early next year 15:35:22 fjh: darobin, can you send out the agenda for next week? 15:35:27 ... thanks Josh_Soref for scribing 15:35:29 -richt 15:35:30 [ Adjourned ] 15:35:33 -spoussa 15:35:34 -Cathy 15:35:35 -darobin 15:35:35 -dom 15:35:36 -nwidell 15:35:37 -fjh 15:35:37 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:35:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/16-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref 15:35:38 -AnssiK 15:35:38 -Deepanshu_Gautam 15:35:42 -Claes 15:35:54 -wonsuk 15:36:05 -Josh_Soref 15:36:12 Zakim, who is on the call? 15:36:12 On the phone I see Clarke 15:36:18 Zakim, end telcon 15:36:18 I don't understand 'end telcon', Josh_Soref 15:36:21 Zakim, end telco 15:36:21 I don't understand 'end telco', Josh_Soref 15:36:25 Zakim, help 15:36:25 Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help. 15:36:27 Some of the commands I know are: 15:36:29 xxx is yyy - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx 15:36:32 if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted 15:36:34 xxx may be yyy - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx 15:36:37