15:54:26 RRSAgent has joined #ua 15:54:26 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/03-ua-irc 15:54:28 RRSAgent, make logs public 15:54:28 Zakim has joined #ua 15:54:30 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 15:54:30 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG(TPAC)11:30AM scheduled to start 24 minutes ago 15:54:31 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 15:54:31 Date: 03 November 2011 15:54:36 sharper has left #ua 15:54:46 Meeting: UAWG F2F Day 1 15:54:56 Chair: Jim, Kelly 15:55:14 Jan has joined #ua 15:55:47 zakim, call Sierra 15:55:47 ok, jeanne; the call is being made 15:55:50 WAI_UAWG(TPAC)11:30AM has now started 15:55:53 +Sierra 15:56:13 kford has joined #ua 15:56:42 -Sierra 15:56:43 WAI_UAWG(TPAC)11:30AM has ended 15:56:43 Attendees were Sierra 15:56:54 zakim, call Sierra 15:56:54 ok, jeanne; the call is being made 15:56:55 WAI_UAWG(TPAC)11:30AM has now started 15:56:56 +Sierra 15:58:12 -Sierra 15:58:13 WAI_UAWG(TPAC)11:30AM has ended 15:58:13 Attendees were Sierra 15:58:41 zakim, call Sierra 15:58:41 ok, jeanne; the call is being made 15:58:42 WAI_UAWG(TPAC)11:30AM has now started 15:58:43 +Sierra 16:00:17 Editors drafts prior to meeting: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011OctDec/0029.html 16:00:17 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-UAAG20-20111020/ 16:00:20 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20111020/ 16:00:37 rrsagent, make minutes 16:00:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/03-ua-minutes.html kford 16:02:51 scribe: jallan 16:03:33 Meeting: UAWG TPAC Face to Face Meeting - Day 1 16:03:47 Chair: KellyFord, JimAllan 16:04:59 Attendees: GregL, KimP, JanR, MarkH, JeanneS, JimA, KellyF 16:05:42 Agenda: Thursday 9 -9:15 logistics 9:15-10:30 writing 10:30-10:45 break 10:45 - 11:15 review 11:15 - 12:00 open issues 12-1 lunch 1-2:15 writing 2:15 - 2:30 break 2:30 - 3 review 3:00 - 4:15 writing 4:15-5:00 review 16:06:33 Topic: Discussion of A, AA, and AAA 16:06:57 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111028/#intro_understand_levels_conformance 16:08:13 http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/conformance.html#uc-levels-head 16:08:28 gl: questions for deciding priorities 16:11:22 Greg's email on Designing Software Accessibility Standards -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009AprJun/0107.html 16:11:24 visitors joined - CliffT (E&O), WayneD 16:13:02 js: reviews history of levels in WCAG. 16:13:17 ... they are not defined in WCAG or ATAG on purpose. 16:13:24 WAI_UAWG(TPAC)11:30AM has ended 16:13:25 Attendees were Sierra 16:15:15 Admin has joined #ua 16:16:05 sharper has joined #ua 16:16:13 sharper has left #ua 16:21:21 Greg reviews his email on Designing Software A11y Standards 16:21:35 kf: we will use a lot of this in our thinking. 16:22:11 jr: we could put this in the understanding conformance section ... it is informative 16:24:03 action: Jan to work with Greg to craft the understanding conformance in the Implementing document. 16:24:03 Created ACTION-635 - Work with Greg to craft the understanding conformance in the Implementing document. [on Jan Richards - due 2011-11-10]. 16:24:21 topic: Walk through the document 16:26:40 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-UAAG20-20111020/ 16:27:15 use this version http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-UAAG20-20111103/ 16:27:16 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-UAAG20-20111103/ 16:29:15 jr: render means presenting to user 16:29:24 ... alt, captions 16:29:31 1.1.1 needs work 16:30:40 jr: the handle is wrong 16:31:16 Admin has joined #ua 16:31:34 1.1.2 needs work - 16:32:00 stem not good, browse and render what? 16:32:02 JR: Handle is wrong...text doesn't mention browse 16:32:38 1.1.2 should we somewhere address the ability to have the alternative content presented to you without replacing the default verison, e.g. display title or alt text in pop-up or tooltip? 16:32:43 1.1.3 OK! 16:33:29 1.1.2 JR pointed out its title doesn't really match the SC text. 16:34:22 1.1.4 (change stem to Rendering Alternative Cascade Order) 16:34:56 1.1.1 and/or 1.1.4 should we address option to have alt content supplement rather than replace the primary content. 16:35:13 and/or 1.1.2 16:35:51 jr: @@reword 1.1.2 to include render simultaneously or make a new SC @@ 16:36:16 1.2.1 OK 16:37:13 small discussion on level. Kelly AA others A 16:38:51 visitor - John from RIM 16:40:46 discussion of 1.2.2 what alt="" means. 16:41:14 gl: this should be off by default. should be in the intention. 16:41:19 kf: should be AAA 16:42:56 jr: @@there are use cases beyond alt, captions, build captions from voice track,@@ 16:42:59 clifftyllick has joined #ua 16:43:02 1.2.2 OK move to AAA 16:43:26 1.2.3 repair missing associations 16:43:47 jr: very broad, tough to evaluate 16:43:55 kf: kick out of uaag 16:44:30 JohnS has joined #UA 16:44:31 gl: not specific enough, what does repair mean 16:45:37 kf: not practical, 16:45:55 jr: talks about ATAG, range of examples. 16:46:40 ...planting seeds for best practices 16:47:45 cliff: this sounds like what people curse about MSWord, predicting what you want to do. or what it thinks you mean 16:48:12 @@in next wd - 1.2.3 what do folks think of this@@ 16:48:19 1.2.4 broken alternative content 16:50:41 1.2.4 @@needs more discussion. how to test. perhaps move to gl1.1@@ 16:51:13 1.3.1 highlighting items 16:53:44 1.3.1 @@review, too many options, should say "these could include". should remove f. presence of alternative content @@ 16:53:50 Jan_ has joined #ua 16:54:10 1.3.2 highlighting options 16:54:11 Something to think about re 1.2.4 future discussion: is "broken" the best term? Why not just "unrenderable"? 16:56:17 gl: need to change the use case in 1.3.2 16:56:46 @@editorial - order of 1.3.1 - 3 16:57:15 specifically as JR suggested, the "active keyboard focus" highlighting is a potentially confusing case. 16:57:19 mh: what about audiory highlighting....iphone example. 16:57:34 kf: not for this version of uaag. 16:58:13 mh: or does screen reader provide the audiory highlighting. 16:59:12 @@1.3.2 review, reword, add auditory(?) 16:59:40 1.3.3 highlighting input controls 17:00:11 contradicts 1.3.1 about abled/disabled items 17:00:56 gl: 1.3.3 is very useful. 17:01:54 @@1.3.3. review. 17:02:11 1.4.1 configure text 17:02:17 jr: add character and line spacing 17:02:41 kf: change stem to 'configure rendered text' 17:03:54 add d) line spacing and e) letter spacing 17:04:11 @@need examples 17:04:43 1.4.1 OK! 17:04:59 1.4.2 preserving size destinctions 17:05:14 1.4.2 OK! 17:05:47 1.5 volume configuration 17:05:59 kf: seems jarring 17:06:13 js: perhaps reorder 17:06:31 mh: it is the size of the audio 17:06:46 1.5.1 global volume 17:07:53 kf and jr: make 'however....' a note 17:08:12 kp; remove 'however... 17:08:17 wouldn't change anything. 17:10:39 cliff: perhaps make an if/then...make it easier to read 17:11:32 if the global setting is mute, then the user may overide... 17:12:26 example-you set an alarm, and you have muted the system, but the alarm comes through 17:13:33 1.5.1 Global Volume: 17:13:33 The user can independently adjust the volume of all audio tracks, relative to the global volume level set through operating environment mechanisms. If the global setting is mute, the user agent may override a global mute on explicit user request that cautions the user about the implication. (Level A) 17:13:33 \ 17:14:41 1.5.1 @@ no -- possible rewroding -- The user can independently adjust the volume of all audio tracks, relative to the global volume level set through operating environment mechanisms. If the global setting is mute, the user agent may override a global mute on explicit user request that cautions the user about the implication. (Level A) 17:15:15 1.6.1 OK -- needs A & B 17:17:10 1.6.2 speech pitch and range 17:17:39 mh: what about picking by voice name (perfect paul, etc) 17:17:55 gl: voice profiles, male female 17:18:02 Suggestion: Split 1.5.1 into 1.5.1 and 1.5.2. In 1.5.1, deal with reducing volume relative to the global level. In 1.5.2, deal with increasing volume relative to the global level. Ping me later if interested and I will draft such wording. 17:18:29 kf: add c) voice where supported 17:18:43 jr: is this a new sc? 17:19:14 ... some technologies, these are sampled. 17:19:14 ... perhaps AA 17:19:34 ... if synthesizer supports voices, then ... 17:20:10 gl: change 1.6.1 to rate, volume and voice 17:21:16 1.6.1 @@ add c) voice (when more than one is available) 17:22:36 Change 1.6.1 title to "Speech Rate, Volume, and Voice". 17:22:41 wayne: voices are speech fonts 17:24:02 We reworded 1.6.2 to match 1.6.1 17:24:13 1.6.2 OK 17:24:44 1.6.3 Advance speech characteristics 17:25:17 kf: wording is off 17:25:27 1.6.4 OK 17:25:28 1.6.3 changes to "The user can ADJUST..." 17:26:01 1.6.3 is OK 17:45:12 1.7.1 author style sheets 17:45:30 jr: css is a technique. requirement should be around typography 17:46:15 kp: for example author style sheets. 17:46:34 js: css is an html technology 17:47:01 jr; user can override the author provided typography with their own. 17:47:14 kf: combining 2 actions to 1 SC 17:47:45 JR: Maybe all of 1.7 is one SC about ability to control typography 17:47:46 ... turn off AND choose if they are applied 17:48:12 ... is Level A turn off, then prompt for the others. 17:48:30 jr: in 1.4.1 we talk about configuring text. 17:48:48 ... lots of other stuff you can do with style sheets 17:50:12 ja; 1.4.1 is simple interface for fonts, etc. 17:50:51 gl: make 2 SC from 1.7.1 17:51:50 ... make a new SC, to use CSS for different purposes. use print css for on screen, use onscreen for printing. 17:52:39 gl: not just talking about typography, chunks of information, moving things about. 17:53:12 kf: like 1.7.3 17:53:24 gl: Jan, do we want to genericize this. 17:54:14 That is, a style sheet is an example of "styling presets"; groups of settings that are designed to work together. Per Jan's comment we might genericize this to "style sheets and equivalents". 17:55:22 1.7.all @@ wayne to clean up 17:56:29 Either in SC or Intent should make explicit that user choice of style sheets should override author-prescribed limitations such as device-type specifiers (e.g. the user should be able to use a print style sheet on the screen and a screen style sheet on a printer). 17:57:43 1.8.1 highlight viewport 17:57:50 sharper has joined #ua 17:58:14 jr: this is covered int 1.3.1 17:59:11 That is, 1.8.1 is equivalent but not identical to 1.3.1.d. 17:59:25 jr: this is a duplication (mostly) of 1.3.1 17:59:52 zakim, call Sierra 17:59:52 ok, jeanne; the call is being made 17:59:53 WAI_UAWG(TPAC)11:30AM has now started 17:59:54 zakim, code? 17:59:54 the conference code is 82943 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sharper 17:59:56 +Sierra 18:00:14 +??P2 18:00:20 discussion of merging and location of 1.8.1.and 1.3.1 18:00:29 -??P2 18:00:50 +??P2 18:01:02 -??P2 18:01:24 -Sierra 18:01:26 WAI_UAWG(TPAC)11:30AM has ended 18:01:26 Attendees were Sierra 18:01:58 kf: remove 1.3.1 d and leave 1.8.1 as is...jr agree 18:02:26 wayne: when thinking about highlighting, then viewports are something to think about 18:02:44 jr: add note to 1.3.1 see 1.8.1 for viewports 18:04:35 jr: remove c, d from 1.3.1 18:05:11 kp: add note to see 1.8.1 for viewport info 18:06:25 The window item from 1.3.1 can be moved into 1.8, which would be renamed to "Help users use and orient within windows and viewports". 18:06:44 Because windows are just a subclass of viewports. 18:08:12 Scribe:johnS 18:08:34 Section 1.8 18:08:57 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-UAAG20-20111103/ 18:09:20 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-UAAG20-20111103/ 18:09:26 Kelly: 1.8.1 is a yes 18:09:42 Greg: on Mono device colour is ignored 18:09:58 Kelly: if not possible it is not expected. 18:10:18 1.8.1 is good 18:10:37 Greg: highlight viewport 18:10:48 ...implies only inner most viewport 18:11:17 ... window inside is a tab, inside tab is a frame, inside fram is a input field. 18:11:28 Jan: the whole chain should be captured 18:11:52 Kelly: I think the requirement includes the whole chain 18:11:58 Kelly: moving on 1.8.2 18:12:15 ...any objections? 18:12:27 ...no objections 18:12:41 1.8.3 resizable 18:12:43 (It seems that in 1.8.1 "THE viewport" and "(incuding nested" seem contradictory, mixing singular and plural, but it's probably acceptable.) 18:13:13 Kim: Change to resizable viewport 18:13:24 Kelly: why graphical? 18:13:34 Jim: can't if is auditory 18:13:41 Jan: we can remove graphical 18:14:12 Ralph has joined #ua 18:14:34 1.9.4 18:14:37 corection 18:14:40 1.8.4 18:14:44 Scrollbard 18:14:50 WAI_UAWG(TPAC)11:30AM has now started 18:14:57 +tpac 18:15:28 1.8.4 Scrollbars has problems. It requires them in all cases, not allowing them to b optional. Scrollbars are one example mechanism for showing the user where they are and/or allowing them to scroll. 18:15:32 Jan: if the rendered content extends beyond the rendered dimentions then the scrollbar is provided 18:16:13 Greg: problems: 1. requires scrollbar in all cases, 2. scrollbar is one mechanism to show that content extend beyond but not the only mechanism that 18:16:16 shows this 18:16:26 Jan: can we call them scroll indicator? 18:16:41 Greg: this is a complicated one, so we need to move on 18:16:53 Greg: I'll take an action on this and have a discussion on scroll bar 18:17:11 Wayne and Mark will be involved to discuss scroll bar with Greg 18:17:19 Jan 18:17:34 Ralph has left #ua 18:17:42 1.8.5 Viewport history 18:18:02 Kelly: I have a problem with this being Level A 18:18:03 action: Greg to rewrite 1.8.4 scrollbars, and Mark and Jan 18:18:03 Created ACTION-636 - Rewrite 1.8.4 scrollbars, and Mark and Jan [on Greg Lowney - due 2011-11-10]. 18:18:11 Kim: Why? 18:18:33 Kelly: The concept is great, but if I have selected a block of text and navigate away, do I have to come back with the block of text selected? 18:19:02 Greg: the user agent must have the ability to restore the state 18:19:29 Kelly: if I'm on a webpage and select some text, and navigate away, it doesn't come back. 18:19:42 Greg: it scroll to the right place but doesn't restore selection 18:19:53 Kim: firefox on a PC restrones it 18:20:01 Jim: a broser can't do this in a web application 18:20:03 +??P11 18:20:13 ...web application will break this 18:20:21 Kelly: the back on HTML5 is meant to do this. 18:20:49 Kelly: yes or no? 18:20:54 I can' go with yes but I think it's wrong 18:21:03 Greg: you would like us to qualify it to say when content is static 18:21:04 zakim, ??P11 is sharper 18:21:04 +sharper; got it 18:21:12 would not apply to dynamic content 18:21:20 Kelly: what is I select a header and it isn't there when I get back. 18:21:34 - how long would the history stay for? 18:21:39 between sessions? 18:21:59 Kim: I wouldn't mind if the selction went away if I came back as long as I knew the content changed 18:22:14 action: Jan craft 1.8.5 18:22:14 Created ACTION-637 - Craft 1.8.5 [on Jan Richards - due 2011-11-10]. 18:22:39 Are we taking a note of the thinks we JUNK so we don't revisit these? 18:22:50 s/thinks/things 18:22:53 1.8.6 open on request 18:23:12 Jim, when writting this tab was just coming into use 18:23:17 Kelly: most htings do this 18:23:17 Action: JR to write a top-level conformance condition re: exception for dynamic content 18:23:17 Created ACTION-638 - Write a top-level conformance condition re: exception for dynamic content [on Jan Richards - due 2011-11-10]. 18:23:27 Kelly: any objection? 18:23:49 Greg: one question, so then web browser, the user says no, and the web browser wants to put up a dialogue box 18:23:58 this prevents a dialog box from poping up? 18:24:13 Kelly: no, this says confirmation 18:24:19 Greg: well this would require a confirmation before popping up a dialogue box 18:24:33 Jan: this talks about author content not chrome 18:24:48 Kelly: Top level viewport rendering author content 18:25:24 Greg: if the script call something to display a message box, 18:25:30 Jan: it is not a top level viewport 18:25:35 Greg: a mesage box is not? 18:25:52 Jan: are you talking about a dialogue box? becuase that means a top level window 18:26:24 Greg: not clear on the distinction between top level window ... and 18:26:30 Kelly: move on in 30 sec 18:26:49 1.8.6 OK! 18:26:55 Kelly: missing a 1.8.8 18:27:14 Jeanne: the renumbering will be done after the face to face 18:27:15 Slight concern that we don't distinguish between top-level content windows and messageboxes, e.g. if authored script calls print, browser puts up a choose printer dialog box, that is or could seem to be a top-level window. 18:27:17 the renumbering will happen before publishing 18:27:25 Kelly: 18:27:36 1.8.9 Close viewport 18:27:42 seems pretty basic to me 18:27:52 why is this AA? 18:27:52 1.8.7 OK! 18:27:58 Jeanne: because of the scripting 18:28:12 ...when people open adds 18:28:15 Jan: shouldn't everybody be able to close viewprots? 18:28:20 what's the accessibilty extra? 18:28:37 Kim: when users have difficulty moving things around to close it is difficult 18:28:40 Jeanne: 18:29:15 Jan: this is not an accessibility only tihng 18:29:29 worried aobut the case that the top level viewport is the chrome 18:29:44 Kelly: this needs to go away, because there isn't a concept of closing the top level viewport 18:29:51 you can make them go away, but it doesn't close them 18:30:12 specially in the mobile world where applicaions aren't closed but goes away 18:30:31 Kim: when something pops up in from on the viewport, and can't reach content underneaht. 18:30:38 Jan: I get the point, but I thin ktihs applies to all users. 18:30:49 s/underneaht/underneath 18:30:59 Greg: iOS, it is unclear whether you are closing the window 18:31:15 Kelly: Windows 8, in immersive ... can't close the broser 18:31:22 s/thin ktihs/think this 18:31:26 Jeanne: get rid of 1.8.9 18:32:13 1.8.9 remove 18:33:18 1.8.10 Same UI 18:33:22 Greg: I like it 18:33:30 Kelly: why is this not A? 18:33:34 Greg: we had a lot of discusison about that 18:33:37 Kelly: ok 18:33:44 1.8.10 OK 18:34:13 1.8.11 indicate viewport position 18:34:23 Jan: if 1.8.4 becomes scrool indication why can't it do double duty? 18:34:49 Jeanne: how does it work in teh audio browser? 18:34:58 Jim: you querry and it tell you X% in that 18:35:17 Kelly: I'm ok with merging 1.8.4 and 1.8.11 Indicate viewport position 18:35:40 Jan: I withdraw, let's keep it simple and move on 18:36:01 Jan: ;et's make this Level A and put it side by side with 1.8.4 18:37:18 1.10 18:37:24 s/;et's/let's 18:37:27 provide alternative views 18:38:13 Simon: we werr talking about combining this with 2.7 hiertical ... 18:38:54 correction 2.7 ==2.5.7 18:39:47 simon: we agreed to amalgamate the two, I send some wording, but I'm trying to find out where it's comming. 18:40:28 s/2.7/2.5.7 18:41:15 Jim: 1.10.3 and 2.5.7 has the same wording 18:42:15 Kelly: 1.10.1 Text view 18:42:50 Kelly: why not call it source view? 18:42:54 agreed 18:43:18 Wayne: can we switch text source to source text? 18:43:25 Kelly: it's a linked termed 18:43:39 Jeanne: it's a definition, I need an action to change this 18:44:20 Simon: I think we agreed on the telecom except for Greg 18:44:34 ... there was no action, and no comments. 18:44:41 ... it felled off the agenda 18:44:47 ... I'll be happy to do. 18:45:00 Kelly: you need to do what the groups tells you to do 18:45:12 Simon: I'm happy to make the changes 18:45:31 Jeane: one is hiertical view and one is ... the types are different 18:45:41 Simon: this implies operability 18:45:49 greg: 2 different things: 18:46:13 ...1. simon correctly pointed out that the ouline view should not change to an interaction outline view 18:46:33 2. Structural navifation should not move to a ... 18:46:58 Jim: that's why we have 2 diffrerent things: to allow for them 18:47:11 Greg: yes it's broader, the 2 requiremetns do need to remain seperate 18:47:52 That is, there was discussion of combining the SC about configuring elements for outline view and for structural navigation, which I believe should remain separate. 18:48:38 http://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/search?type-index=w3c-wai-ua&index-type=t&keywords=2.5.7&search=Search 18:48:53 Mark: this is talkin gabout navifation not view 18:49:12 .. this says hieratical view, but should say navigation 18:49:15 Greg: we need both 18:50:28 Jeanne: there was a discussion where we delibrately separated into two seperate handle 18:50:39 Greg: I am against combining them, but I am for moving it all to navigation 18:52:12 Greg: 1.10.2 outline view does not have structural view and navigation 18:53:38 Greg: what about combining 1.10.3 configure elemenets for structural navigation and 2.5.7 configure elemenets for hierchical views 18:53:48 Simon: what's the problme? can you provide example 18:53:59 Greg: only show me H1 and H2, I do'nt want to see H3 18:54:24 for structural navigation: but take me to he next header, I mean every header, do not skip H3,H4... 18:54:42 you want to navigate to things that are hidden in the navigation view 18:54:53 simon: I understand but I don't like it 18:55:25 GreG: another example, if I say don't show me the structual navigation woul dbe things like take me to the next row, but I don't want to see every row shown on the outline view 18:55:36 Kelly: you want to navigate in more details than you want to view 18:55:59 Greg: when outline it up I only want to see a limited subsection 18:56:33 ... 1.10.3 hierarchical view is wrong it sohuld say structural navigation 18:56:51 1.10.2 Hierarchical View: An "outline" view of rendered content is provided, composed of labels for important structural elements (e.g. heading text, table titles, form titles, and other labels that are part of the content). (Level AA) Note: The outline constitutes the important structural elements for the user (See 1.10.3). A label is defined by each markup language specification. For example, in HTML, a heading (H1-H6) is a label for the section that foll 18:57:11 1.10.2 Hierarchical View: 18:57:14 1.10.3 Configure Elements for Hierarchical View 18:57:27 2.5.7 Configure Elements for Structured Navigation: 18:58:49 simon: why can't we say the user has the option to configure important and structure 18:59:00 Greg: it is not the same list 18:59:12 ... so it needs to say independent 18:59:27 Kelly: I'm ok with independent. 19:00:12 ... we're moving toward the same thing. 19:00:24 ... where does this leave us? 19:00:37 proposed 1.5.x The user can independently configure the sets of important elements (including element types) for structured navigation and hierarchical/outline view. (Level AAA) 19:00:48 proposed 2.5.x The user can independently configure the sets of important elements (including element types) for structured navigation and hierarchical/outline view. (Level AAA) 19:01:12 proposed 2.5.x The user can independently configure the sets of important elements (including element types) for structured navigation and hierarchical/outline views. (Level AAA) 19:02:11 Greg: Simon's point if there's an outline view I should be able to click to navigate. it should become operable 19:02:17 Kelly: outline view should be first perceivable 19:02:46 Greg: we want user's to be able to navigate by it. 19:03:46 Greg: if we're going to standardize outline, structural/hierarchical 19:03:53 Kelly: can I throw out an radical? 19:04:19 ... we have 1.10.2 which is provide a hierarchical view which we call outline view 19:04:26 1.10.3 let you configure the elements for that 19:04:29 leave those alone 19:04:42 now we have 2.5.7 which is provide structural navigation 19:04:55 and another which is configure the structural navigation elements 19:04:59 we shouldn't combine these 19:06:02 ...I do'nt htink they should be combined because I can picture someone implementing the first one, but not the secondary 19:06:45 Greg: we're going to keep 4 19:07:11 Jan; this stays with 1, 19:07:33 Greg: then we're keeping eveyrthing pretty much what is is now, and cleaning up the wording and it's operable for navigation. 19:08:20 Greg: we need to provide good examples for this 19:09:14 Wayne: we need a hook in there.... 19:09:15 @@ technique for 2.5.7, 1.10.2 include dialog box include in outline view, include in navigation@@ 19:09:39 Greg: when formating, text insersion point, and viewport persists. 19:09:54 Kelly: it's 12:08 can we confirm 19:09:58 Jim: what did we decide? 19:11:13 So I think our plan is to keep two SC in 1.10, provide outline view and customize its elements, and two SC in 2.5, provide structural navigation and customize ts elements. Plus we will change the SC about outline view to ensure that users can navigate using it. And finally we will normalize the wordings. 19:11:26 Kelly: 1.10.2 is ok it just needs ot be operable 19:11:37 Gerg: Simon are you goood wit htaht need wording? 19:11:58 Kelly: Simon, do you agree with this? 19:12:22 Simon: this has been coming back for the last 5 months and we keep going around in circles, as long as everybody agrees, let's move on 19:13:11 Kelly: we need work in 1.10.2 that say that the viw must be provided and must be able to operate it 19:14:15 Jan: I'll take the action to try to make it operable 19:14:28 Kelly: 1.10.2 goes on the no list 19:14:34 s/Gerg/Greg/ 19:14:45 Action: JR to propose how to explain that 1.10.2 outline view should be operable 19:14:45 Created ACTION-639 - Propose how to explain that 1.10.2 outline view should be operable [on Jan Richards - due 2011-11-10]. 19:14:51 1.10.3, title needs to change but we're good with that 19:15:12 1.11.1 access relationship 19:15:13 1.11.1 19:15:32 Simon: i thought someone request some changes on this 19:15:40 Jeanne: there are some old action items 19:15:45 Kelly: vote no 19:16:12 1.11.1 Access relationship we need to check is there are old action items attached, if none we're ok with this 19:16:53 Greg: on 1.11.1 the phrase based on the user's position in content is different than teh phrase we used elsewhere: based on an element 19:16:59 EG user can do something for an element 19:17:01 1.11.1 the phrase "based on the user's position in content" is different from the phrase we use elsewhere which emphasizes based on an element. 19:17:14 1.11.1 needs to go into purgatory 19:17:23 But that's purely stylistic. 19:17:48 1.11.2 extended link information 19:17:54 Kelly: are we ok with that? AAA 19:18:22 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JanMar/0046.html 19:18:31 Here is the discussion 19:18:34 In 1.11.2 Extended Link Information, the phrase "the user agent provides" is not hthe phrase we use elsewhere for presenting info to the user. 19:19:53 Kelly: it's a no for no 1.11.2 extended link information because we have a thread on this 19:20:51 Kelly: let's break for lunch 19:21:48 -sharper 19:21:48 -tpac 19:21:49 WAI_UAWG(TPAC)11:30AM has ended 19:21:49 Attendees were tpac, sharper 19:23:46 rrsagent, make minutes 19:23:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/03-ua-minutes.html jallan 20:35:18 Zakim has left #ua 20:49:45 2.7.1 Change Preference Settings 20:49:47 The user can change settings that impact accessibility. (Level A) 20:49:49 Intent: 20:49:50 Users have a variety of needs when it comes to customization of a user agent. This success criteria ensures that a user can customize settings offered by the user agent to meet those needs. 20:49:52 2.7.2 Persistent Accessibility Settings 20:49:54 : User agent accessibility preference settings persist between sessions. (Level A) 20:49:56 Intent: 20:49:57 When a user has customized settings within the user agent to maximize accessibility, 20:49:59 this success criteria ensures that customization is saved between browsing sessions. The user can then have those settings automatically used in subsequnet browsing sessionsrrsagent, make minutes 20:50:02 2.7.4 Multiple Sets of preference settings: The user can save and retrieve multiple sets of user agent preferences settings. (Level AA) 20:50:12 Intent Some users may need to change their setting preferences under different circumstances such as varying levels of user fatigue or changes in environmental noise or lighting conditions. Providing an easy method for saving and switching between a set of preferences helps the user complete intended tasks in different situations. 20:52:13 2.7.3 Restore all to default: The user can restore all preference settings to default values. (Level A) 20:52:23 Users who configure accessibility preference settings may decide that their chosen settings may not be suitable and wish to restore these settings to their default values. For some users, it may be difficult to easily recall all modified settings while others may find it difficult to navigate to each modified setting, especially if a particular setting may have impacted their ability to do so. This success criteria provides a means for a user to easily restore 20:52:49 This success criteria provides a means for a user to easily restore all preference settings to their default values using a single function or action. 21:15:44 4.2.3 Return Focus [former 1.9.7, before that 3.11.7]: 21:15:46 At any time, the user agent can retrieve input focus from a nested viewport (including nested viewports that are user agents). (Level A) 21:15:48 Being able to return focus to a predictable location can help users orient themselves within the full range of user interface and content offered by a user agent. This success criteria ensures that the user agent can always move focus back to sucha location. 21:15:52 JohnS has joined #Ua 21:16:21 4.2.3 Return Focus [former 1.9.7, before that 3.11.7]: 21:16:23 At any time, the user agent can retrieve input focus from a nested viewport (including nested viewports that are user agents). (Level A) 21:16:25 Being able to return focus to a predictable location can help users orient themselves within the full range of user interface and content offered by a user agent. This success criteria ensures that the user agent can always move focus back to sucha location. 21:16:38 mhakkinen has joined #ua 21:16:46 4.2.3 Return Focus [former 1.9.7, before that 3.11.7]: 21:16:49 At any time, the user agent can retrieve input focus from a nested viewport (including nested viewports that are user agents). (Level A) 21:16:51 Being able to return focus to a predictable location can help users orient themselves within the full range of user interface and content offered by a user agent. This success criteria ensures that the user agent can always move focus back to sucha location. 21:22:44 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011OctDec/0038.html 21:23:02 Topic: 2.5.1 21:23:11 2.5.1 (moving to 2.3.X) Discover navigation and activation keystrokes: The user can discover direct navigation and activation keystrokes both programmatically and via perceivable labels. (Level A) 21:23:12 jeanne has joined #ua 21:23:17 Intent 2.5.1 (moving to 2.3.X): To ensure that users using a keyboard interface have the ability to both discover and be reminded of keystrokes, while they are using the user agent. Some of these users may be using assistive technologies enabling communication of the keystrokes by programmatic means, while other users will need visual indicators, such as underlines. 21:24:21 jallan has joined #ua 21:25:37 Intent 2.5.1 (moving to 2.3.X): The user of a keyboard interface can both discover and be reminded of keystrokes. Some of these users may be using assistive technologies enabling communication of the keystrokes by programmatic means, while other users will need visual indicators, such as underlines. 21:25:41 rrsagent, make minutes 21:25:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/03-ua-minutes.html jallan 21:27:19 Resolution: move 2.5.1 to 2.3.x 21:27:32 Intent 2.5.1 (moving to 2.3.X): The user of a keyboard interface needs to be able to discover and be reminded of keystrokes. Some of these users may be using assistive technologies enabling communication of the keystrokes by programmatic means, while other users will need visual indicators, such as underlines. 21:29:16 topic: 2.11.8 21:29:24 2.11.8 Semantic Navigation of Time-Based Media: The user can navigate by semantic structure within the time-based media, such as by chapters or scenes present in the media (Level AA) 21:29:26 Intent 2.11.8: To allow users to navigate time-based media in ways that are more meaningful than arbitrary time increments. 21:29:28 BUT is this a sub-class of (2.3.1 Direct Navigation to Important Elements) 21:30:23 Intent 2.11.8: Users need to be able to navigate time-based media in ways that are more meaningful than arbitrary time increments. 21:33:52 users with disabilities need to efficiently navigate through chunks (chapters, scenes) of media 21:36:00 topic: 2.11.9 21:36:13 2.11.9 Track Enable/Disable of Time-Based Media: During time-based media playback, the user can determine which tracks are available and select or deselect tracks. These selections may override global default settings for captions, audio descriptions, etc. (Level AA) 21:36:13 Intent 2.11.9: To give users the ability to choose the tracks to meet their accessibility needs when authors have provided many alternatives. 21:36:13 NOTE similarity to 1.1.2 Browse and Render 21:37:25 Some users with disabilities need to choose different languages or audio tracks (descriptive video) 21:37:28 Intent 2.11.9: Users need the ability to choose the tracks that best meet their accessibility needs (e.g. the caption track in their own language) when authors have provided many alternatives. 21:38:26 JohnS has joined #UA 21:39:15 2.7.1 Change Preference Settings 21:39:22 The user can change settings that impact accessibility. (Level A) 21:39:33 Users have a variety of needs when it comes to customization of a user agent. This success criteria ensures that a user can customize settings offered by the user agent to meet those needs. 21:41:47 the document has many SC that say specify, configure, etc. this allows the changing. 21:42:26 2.7.2 Persistence of Settings Affecting Accessibility 21:42:34 User agent accessibility preference settings persist between sessions. (Level A) 21:42:41 When a user has customized settings within the user agent to maximize accessibility, this success criteria ensures that customization is saved between browsing sessions. The user can then have those settings automatically used in subsequent browsing sessions. 21:42:43 @@remove 2.7.1 21:43:13 Resolution: Remove 2.7.1 21:44:19 topic: 2.7.2 persistence of a11y settings 21:45:24 2.7.2 Persistence of Settings Affecting Accessibility-- User agent accessibility preference settings persist between sessions. (Level A) Intent: When a user has customized settings within the user agent to maximize accessibility, this success criteria ensures that customization is saved between browsing sessions. The user can then have those settings automatically used in subsequent browsing sessions. 21:46:33 discussion of whether this applies to multiple users 21:47:12 the intent is a per user basis. 21:47:33 2.7.3 Restore all to default: The user can restore all preference settings to default values. (Level A) 21:47:42 topic: 2.7.3 21:47:42 Users who customize settings may find that their chosen settings are not suitable and decide to restore these settings to their default values. For some users, it may be difficult to easily recall all modified settings while others may find it difficult to navigate to each modified setting, especially if a particular setting may have impacted their ability to do so. This success criteria provides a means for a user to easily restore all preference setting 21:49:01 This success criteria provides a means for a user to easily restore all preference settings to their default values using a single function or action. 21:51:11 For some users, it may be difficult to easily recall all modified settings while others may find it difficult to navigate to each modified setting, especially if a particular setting may have impacted their ability to do so. Users who customize settings may find that their chosen settings are not suitable and decide to restore these settings to their default values. This success criteria provides a means for a user to easily restore all preference settin 21:51:11 revised intent: 21:51:21 tion or action. 21:51:29 topic: 2.7.4 21:51:56 2.7.4 Multiple Sets of Preference Settings: The user can save and retrieve multiple sets of user agent preference settings. (Level AA) 21:52:11 Intent Some users may need to change their setting preferences under different circumstances such as varying levels of user fatigue or changes in environmental noise or lighting conditions. Providing an easy method for saving and switching between a set of preferences helps the user complete intended tasks in different situations. (2.7.4) 21:52:47 2.7.5 Restore related preferences to default: The user can restore groups of related preference settings to default values (e.g. reset keyboard shortcuts, reset colors and sizes of rendered content). (Level AA) 21:52:51 topic: 2.7.5 21:53:22 scribe: Jan 21:53:42 John: In mobile space this isn't really possible... 21:54:45 KF: We should remove 21:54:48 JS: Agreed 21:54:55 John: Recommend remove 21:55:31 GL: is this the only one that talks about groups of settings... 21:55:44 GL: e.g. the ability to send someone an appearance scheme 21:56:13 John: I agree re: modifying but not resetting 21:56:19 GL: Useful on windows - appearance scheme 21:56:32 GL: Not as useful if it was ALL settings 21:56:52 KP: e.g. in GMail addon to change keyboard shortcuts 21:57:45 This is not directly about 2.7, but it is beneficial for programs to allow users to save, distribute, and load groups of related settings without having it carry ALL settings with it. 21:57:55 Resolution: Remove 2.7.5 21:59:16 2.7.6 Change preference setting outside the UI: The user can adjust preference settings from outside the user agent user interface. (Level AA) 21:59:31 topic: 2.7.6 21:59:37 scribe: jallan 22:00:35 john: on mobile platforms there is no way to do this 22:00:37 Intent: When the user inadvertently selects a setting that renders the UI inaccessible, a method must be provided to allow the user to reset the UI. 22:00:45 Examples: 1. On a desktop device, there is a command line interface to reset the accessibility parameters. 2. On a mobile a hard button could be used to reset the accessibility parameters on user command. 22:03:12 greg: concerned about using only 'reset', prefers adjust 22:04:28 use 'user preferences' instead of a11y parameters 22:06:53 The user should have the ability to set user preferences to enable accessibility features of a UA prior to launching the UA. 22:07:58 jan: the control settings for the UA chrome 22:09:35 ...if chrome slaved to the settings of the os. the user could change the OS to affect the UA UI so the user has .... 22:09:57 he user should have the ability to set user preferences to enable the controls of the accessibility features of a UA. 22:10:46 ^^ new intent 22:11:32 2.7.7 Portable Preference settings: The user can transfer preference settings onto a compatible system. (Level AAA) 22:11:49 action: Jeanne to smith the IER for 2.7.6 22:11:49 Created ACTION-640 - Smith the IER for 2.7.6 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-11-10]. 22:11:58 topic: 2.7.7 22:12:11 Intent: A user can migrate preference setting from one device to another in order to maintain accessibility parameters. 22:13:42 A user who has spent time customizing accessibility preferences to meet their needs, they can easily migrate preference setting to another device in order to maintain accessibility of other user agents 22:14:13 Intent: User will spend time customizing a UA to maximize accessibility, the user should be able to migrate the customization to maintain accessibility when using a compatible system. This will also allow rehabilitation professional of setting the required setting once. 22:14:30 jan: Portable Preference settings: The user can transfer preference settings onto a compatible user agent. 22:15:01 jan: Portable Preference settings: The user can transfer preference settings between instances of the user agent 22:16:16 kelly: if you have portable preference settings you must include accessibility preference settings. 22:17:21 kelly: wants to remove this. it is only about a11y settings 22:20:54 kim and greg have use registry files to help users with accessibility 22:21:24 kelly says this will not fly 22:21:43 jeanne: this is AAA, it is planting a seed. 22:22:20 mark: chome has this feature, synchronization 22:22:49 I think that if this is a step toward GPII, it is a good thing to include it at AAA 22:23:11 proposed rewording: Portable Preference settings: The user can transfer preference settings between instances of the user agent 22:23:34 this is roaming preferences 22:24:50 Intent: User will spend time customizing a UA to maximize accessibility, the user should be able to migrate the customization to maintain accessibility when using a compatible system. This will also allow rehabilitation professional of setting the required setting once. 22:25:11 A user who has spent time customizing accessibility preferences to meet their needs, they can easily migrate preference setting to another device in order to maintain accessibility of other user agents 22:26:41 rrsagent, make minutes 22:26:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/03-ua-minutes.html jallan 22:42:59 action: jeanne to wordsmith 2.7.7 22:42:59 Created ACTION-641 - Wordsmith 2.7.7 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-11-10]. 22:44:19 topic: 2.11.3 22:44:27 2.11.3 Execution Placeholder: The user can render a placeholder instead of executable content that would normally be contained within an on-screen area (e.g. Applet, Flash), until explicit user request to execute. (Level A) 22:44:30 Intent: Documents that do things automatically when loaded can delay, distract, or interfere with user's ability to continue with a task. In the case of embedded objects, applets and media, replacing the executable content with a placeholder tells the user what has been blocked and provides a mechanism (e.g. a play button) for unblocking when the user is ready. 22:44:30 Note: It is generally recommended that the placeholder take up the same space as the object it is replacing, so that the presentation does not need to be reflowed when the execution is started. However, users on mobile devices or using screen enlargers, or who have difficulty with scroll commands may benefit from having the option of a smaller placholder. 22:44:32 22:44:34 Examples: 22:44:36 Jane has difficulty concentrating. In order to concentrate on the text of a document she wants to hide any multimedia content, and only trigger execution of that content when she feels it's appropriate. An icon on the status bar tells him that scripts have been blocked, and by clicking it he can select which scripts to run. 22:44:39 Evan is blind. He sets the option in his browser so that when a web page loads it does not automatically run executable object, so that any or music or speech they play won't interfere with his ability to hear his screen reader. An icon on the status bar tells him that scripts have been blocked, and by clicking it she can select which scripts to run. 22:48:11 Jane has difficulty concentrating. In order to concentrate on the text of a document she wants to hide any multimedia content, and only trigger execution of that content by clicking on the placeholder she feels it's appropriate. 22:48:50 Evan is blind. He sets the option in his browser so that when a web page loads it does not automatically run executable object, so that any or music or speech they play won't interfere with his ability to hear his screen reader. When he is ready to start it playing he navigates to the placeholder and presses the Enter key to activate it. 22:50:10 topic: 2.11.4 22:50:17 2.11.4 Execution Toggle: The user can turn on/off the execution of executable content that would not normally be contained within a particular area (e.g. Javascript). (Level A) 22:50:19 Intent: Documents that do things automatically when loaded can delay, distract, or interfere with user's ability to continue with a task. The user needs to be able to specify that executable content (e.g. scripts) be blocked when a document loads, be told which content has been blocked, and be able to selectively execute the content at a later time. 22:50:20 Examples: 22:50:22 Jane has difficulty concentrating. In order to concentrate on the text of a document she wants to prevent any animations, media, or dynamic content from executing until she is ready. An icon on the status bar tells him that scripts have been blocked, and by clicking it she can select which scripts to run. 22:50:23 Evan is blind. He sets the option in his browser so that when a web page loads it does not automatically start running scripts that might play sounds that would interfere with his ability to hear his screen reader. An icon on the status bar tells him that scripts have been blocked, and by clicking it he can select which scripts to run. 22:51:32 Jane has difficulty concentrating. In order to concentrate on the text of a document she wants to prevent any animations, media, or dynamic content from executing until she is ready. An icon on the status bar tells her that scripts have been blocked, and by clicking it she can select which scripts to run. 22:52:39 kelly: has issues with this sc. can already turn on/off javascript. browsers have 'filtering' can turn on/off active X. 22:53:12 ... can not selectively turn on js or active x items. 22:54:14 jan: the intent in informational. so the selectivity is implied 22:54:33 ... need a note that javascript is ubiquitious and no content may appear on the page 22:54:46 Note: Some web applications and document may be essentially empty until scripts are run. However, it is still important for users to have this level of control. 22:56:12 Evan is blind. He sets the option in his browser so that when a web page loads it does not automatically start running scripts that might play sounds that would interfere with his ability to hear his screen reader. An icon on the status bar tells him that scripts have been blocked, and by activating it he can select which scripts to run. 22:57:25 only 2.11.8 and 2.11.9 still to write intents!! 22:57:54 this is incorrect 22:57:59 topic 2.11.6 22:58:21 2.11.6 Stop/Pause/Resume Time-Based Media: The user can stop, pause, and resume rendered audio and animation content (including video and animated images) that last three or more seconds at their default playback rate. (Level A) 22:58:22 Time-based media such as audio and video can delay, distract, or interfere with user's ability to continue with a task. When media is playing, the user may realize that it is interfering with her ability to carry out other tasks. She may also need to pause and resume playback to allow her to keep up or carry out other tasks at the same time. 22:58:24 Examples: 22:58:25 * Evan is blind and wants to pause the audio in order to carry out another task without it interfering with his ability to hear their screen reader. 22:58:27 * Marla starts playing a video and realizes user with seizure disorders realizes the video is uncomfortable, so she presses the space bar to pause it. 22:59:53 Those are just a start, not finished yet. 23:00:38 action: greg to smith the 2.11.6 intent/examples 23:00:39 Created ACTION-642 - Smith the 2.11.6 intent/examples [on Greg Lowney - due 2011-11-10]. 23:00:49 2.11.6 Intent - Users with sensory, attentional, or cognitive impairments may have difficulty following or understanding multimedia content. By allowing time-based media to be stopped, paused, and resumed, users are able control the presentation, providing time to understand or act upon presented content before continuing, or to stop potentially distracting information. 23:05:14 topic: 2.11.7 23:05:32 2.11.7 Navigate Time-Based Media: The user can navigate along the timebase using a continuous scale, and by relative time units within rendered audio and animations (including video and animated images) that last three or more seconds at their default playback rate. (Level A) 23:06:33 If I could not understand what this meant, I think a lot of our readers will have similar problems. 23:06:54 Too much jargon. 23:07:15 action: mark to smith 2.11.7 with jeanne to explain to greg, and write and intent 23:07:16 Created ACTION-643 - Smith 2.11.7 with jeanne to explain to greg, and write and intent [on Markku Hakkinen - due 2011-11-10]. 23:07:20 (Note that I don't think we have an equivalent for normal visual content.) 23:07:54 (e.g. scrolling by lines and pages, and jumping to the 5th page). 23:17:13 topic: 3.1.2 23:18:55 jim: not sure what a low priority message 23:19:24 kelly: can do this with ARIA, seems to say support ARIA politeness. 23:21:58 kelly: kick this out. ask in next update @@does UAAG do enough to support WAI ARIA, canvas accessibility, etc@@ 23:22:18 jan: thinks it should go 23:24:34 kim: this is important 23:25:03 kim: provides user examples 23:26:23 greg: user has ability to turn off announcements 23:26:35 gregory rosmaita 23:26:49 3.1.2 NO 23:28:11 topic: 3.2.1 23:28:19 Back button and Undo (in editing) could be SC in 3.2, as could spell checking. 23:28:34 what about adding sc for spell check, backspace, spell checking 23:28:44 Action: JR to add SC on Undo 23:28:44 Created ACTION-644 - Add SC on Undo [on Jan Richards - due 2011-11-10]. 23:29:55 Action: Greg to add SC re: Back button 23:29:56 Created ACTION-645 - Add SC re: Back button [on Greg Lowney - due 2011-11-10]. 23:32:14 need an example for clicking on the submit button and asking for confirmation. 23:32:35 action: greg to write examples for 3.2.1 example for clicking on the submit button and asking for confirmation. 23:32:36 Created ACTION-646 - Write examples for 3.2.1 example for clicking on the submit button and asking for confirmation. [on Greg Lowney - due 2011-11-10]. 23:33:14 topic: 3.3.1 accessible documentation 23:34:18 all ok 23:34:57 topic: 3.3.2 document accessibilty features 23:35:33 kelly: its ok for product to not have documentation 23:36:13 greg: if the UA doesn't tell you about the accessibility features it should fail uaag 23:36:29 kelly: remove the word ALL 23:37:25 A.4.2.1 Document Accessibility Features: All features of the authoring tool that must be present to meet Part A of ATAG 2.0 (e.g., keyboard shortcuts, text search) are documented. (Level A) 23:38:16 Reworking for UAAG: Document Accessibility Features: All features of the user agent that must be present to meet the other UAAG 2.0 success criteria (e.g., keyboard shortcuts, text search) are documented. (Level A) 23:38:42 Reworking for UAAG: Document Accessibility Features: All features of the user agent that must be present to meet the other UAAG 2.0 success criteria are documented. (Level A) 23:38:59 Reworking for UAAG: Document Accessibility Features: Features of the user agent that must be present to meet the other UAAG 2.0 success criteria are documented. (Level A) 23:40:11 Reworking for UAAG: Document Accessibility Features: All features of the user agent that must be present to meet the other UAAG 2.0 success criteria are documented. (Level A) 23:41:20 Reworking for UAAG: Document Accessibility Features: All features of the user agent that are present to meet the other UAAG 2.0 success criteria are documented. (Level A) 23:42:12 Reworking for UAAG: Document Accessibility Features: All features of the user agent that meet the other UAAG 2.0 success criteria are documented. (Level A) 23:42:20 Reworking for UAAG: Document Accessibility Features: All features of the user agent that meet UAAG 2.0 success criteria are documented. (Level A) 23:44:34 topic: 3.3.3 changes between definitions 23:44:43 jan: this could go away 23:44:50 kim: this is important 23:45:35 jan: this should be AAA 23:45:55 kelly: +1, change wording to reflect language in 3.3.2 23:46:42 kim: new version of UA, do you click on what's new, shouldn't the accessibility features be included in the what's new 23:48:33 jan: they will have already documented the changes. this says please inform the user of a11y changes. 23:49:12 kim: this is really hard for users to discover the changes 23:50:23 greg: so its ok to read a 500 page manual to find the removal of the one feature that you need. 23:51:44 jan: its not in wcag or atag 23:52:11 change to aaa 23:53:36 topic 3.3.4 23:53:38 ok 23:54:19 topic: 3.3.5 23:54:35 jan and others: should be removed 23:54:42 all agree 23:55:31 What we're removing is 3.3.5 Context Sensitive Help: There is context-sensitive help on all user agent features that benefit accessibility. (Level AAA) 23:57:17 topic: 3.4.1 23:57:58 Jan_ has joined #ua