15:13:00 RRSAgent has joined #htmlspeech
15:13:00 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/03-htmlspeech-irc
15:13:42 zakim, I am Daniel_Burnett
15:13:42 sorry, burn, I do not see a party named 'Daniel_Burnett'
15:14:14 Present+ Daniel_Burnett
15:16:36 smaug has joined #htmlspeech
15:17:36 hi
15:28:28 Zakim, smaug is Olli_Pettay
15:28:28 sorry, smaug, I do not recognize a party named 'smaug'
15:28:52 well, how am I then o_O
15:29:05 s/how/who/
15:31:53 burn has changed the topic to: agenda: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/htmlspeech/2011/11/f2f/agenda.html (burn)
15:32:50 Chair: Daniel_Burnett,Michael_Bodell
16:01:57 pong
16:06:13 zakim, code?
16:06:13 the conference code is 773324 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), burn
16:06:32 mbodell has joined #htmlspeech
16:07:03 Team_(HTMLSpeech)12:00PM has now started
16:07:10 +tpac
16:07:55 trackbot, start telcon
16:08:23 RRSAgent, make logs public
16:08:27 Zakim, this will be
16:08:27 I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
16:08:29 Meeting: HTML Speech Incubator Group Teleconference
16:08:31 Date: 03 November 2011
16:09:01 +[IPcaller]
16:09:19 Zakim, [IPcaller] is Olli_Pettay
16:09:19 +Olli_Pettay; got it
16:09:39 Zakim, nick smaug is Olli_Pettay
16:09:39 ok, smaug, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay
16:17:46 ddahl_ has joined #htmlspeech
16:20:13 Milan has joined #HtmlSpeech
16:20:32 Topic: Introductions
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16:22:59 DanD has joined #htmlspeech
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16:25:23 Topic: Review recently sent examples
16:26:11 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Oct/att-0064/speechwepapi_1_.html#introduction
16:26:16 http://bantha.org/~mbodell/speechxg/example1.html
16:27:57 Michael: Speech Web Search Markup only
16:29:37 Robert: Found addGrammarFrom() is awkward
16:30:16 ... really a hint
16:30:33 Glen: True that input has no grammar
16:31:16 Michael: It's a builtin grammar
16:31:34 Robert: What about derviveGrammarFrom
16:31:42 Glen: It's an append grammar
16:32:23 DanD: Option might be a better example
16:33:03 Michael: Text is a grammar
16:34:00 Robert: Assume q is an object from which a grammar can be derived
16:34:09 Nit, is a submit button, so when you click it, the form is submitted. type="button" would fix the problem
16:34:18 DanB: addDerivedGrammar
16:34:42 Debbie: Figgure out semantics first
16:35:38 Robert: AddDerivedGrammarFromID
16:35:56 Glen: Also rename q to 'inputField'
16:37:50 Glen: Also from text input type to date or somethign more contrained
16:38:36 ... Need to specify the lack of grammars
16:38:47 ... Is this dictation?
16:39:34 Robert: improve example by defaulting to UTF-8
16:40:11 Section 5.1: when no grammar specified, defaults to builtin:dictation
16:40:31 Robert: Base 64 encoding is ugly
16:41:12 ... to the point where it is unsualbe
16:41:40 Michael: Worried about directly inserting XML due to 8th bit
16:42:43 DanB: Are there already common protocols for inserting strings derived from URLs into local variables?
16:43:16 Glen: Should only be a W3C standard, implmentation is orthoginal
16:44:45 Robert: AddFromString() would be nice:?
16:45:14 Glen: addStringGrammar() and addElementGrammar()
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16:45:22 Avery: Perfer longer name because its truer to form
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16:46:09 Couldn't you just prepend "data:application/srgs+xml," to the serialized XML. But anyway, using data urls is kind of hackish, IMO.
16:47:11 Robert: Too many dots to get the interpretation
16:48:15 Milan: Propose addGramamrFromURI()
16:49:25 Robert: Newing up a speech grammar is better approach
16:51:56 Michael: Let's just raise issues now rather than solve them
16:53:02 Debbie: Example is complex, and gets mixed up with arguement that JS is complex
16:53:50 * laptop?
16:55:03 Michael: Next example from Bjorn
16:56:56 Robert: The example lacks a grammar
16:57:11 s/onclick="startSpeech"/onclick="startSpeech(event)"/
16:57:18 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/att-0008/web-speech-sample-code.html
16:58:45 Robert: Need to define what happens when lacking a grammar
16:59:12 Avery: Is there a policy against comments in the examples?
16:59:39 Michael: Planning on adding that to an appendix
17:00:52 Avery: It's a decent example, as long as it is clear that this instance lacks a grammar
17:01:11 Robert: Example shows default behavior
17:02:03 Rahul: Could also delete button as means of shorting example
17:02:29 per Avery's suggestion: add a comment "since no grammar is specified and no element is binded, uses default grammar builtin:dictation"
17:03:28 s/adding that to/adding examples to/
17:03:54 Rahul: Two different ways to perform same array access
17:04:02 Glen: Should make it consistent in example
17:06:18 In Bjorn's second example need sir.maxNBest = 2;
17:06:19 use same notation: s/q.value = event.result.item(0).interpretation;/q.value = event.result[0].interpretation;/
17:07:14 Robert: Intent is to get a text transcript of the user's input
17:07:42 ... why are we accessing the interpretation instead of tokens?
17:10:24 Milan: Need to bring this up in protocol team
17:11:17 to replace to "utterance" in place of interpretation
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17:12:40 Milan: Last two comments should apply here as well
17:15:12 Milan: Should we have company-specific references?
17:15:22 Michael: Prefer example.org
17:15:54 Robert: Is there speech recognition in turn by turn>
17:16:17 Michael: Speech recognition is just destination capture
17:16:38 Again, s/onclick="startSpeech"/onclick="startSpeech(event)"/
17:17:14 Robert: The prefer speek next instruction should cancel last instruction
17:17:47 Glen: Thought the purpose of example was to show interplay between speech and tts?
17:18:13 Michael: TTS play resumes where last left off
17:18:41 Glen: Way to stop prior play is a good feature
17:19:15 ... we should change this example
17:19:44 change example to show how to stop, by persisting the tts object and calling stop before adding .text and .play
17:21:13 Michael: Ollie example next
17:21:25 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/att-0009/htmlspeech_permission_example.html
17:24:44 Micahel: First example is just removing unauthorized elements?
17:25:12 ... but second example doesn't allow speech input to start
17:25:13 Ollie: Yes
17:25:56 Michael: Can you transition from not authorized to authorized?
17:26:14 Ollie: Should be possible, but example doesn't do that
17:27:13 ... but could also just reload the page
17:27:56 * Going on break now
17:30:24 s/Topic: Introductions/ScribeNick: Milan/
17:51:11 scribe:ddahl
17:51:19 topic: Robert's example
17:51:46 robert: two recognitions in a row, you want to pick your cities based on what state you're in.
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17:52:52 Actually I think it's based on what state is specified in the first reco, not necessarily what state you're in. A minor nit.
17:52:56 robert: it really should say "interpretation.state", not just "interpretation"
17:53:35 ...used push instead of adding things to the array of speech grammars
17:55:41 robert: a bug on result, should be city, also, sr.onMatch should be sr.onResult
17:56:20 robert: second example is rereco
17:57:35 ...gives grammars to speechInputRequest, then classifies, then does rereco with a specific grammar
17:58:12 glenn: this seems to be a strange use of "interpretation"
17:58:27 robert: there is a huge universe of grammars
17:58:50 rahul: this is identifying one grammar as different from the others
17:59:15 robert: using the attribute "modal" to activate and deactivate grammars
17:59:43 ...would change the example to get interpretation.classification
18:00:27 ...strange to have multiple "modals" as true, think modal might be a bad idea
18:01:01 topic: speech-enabled email
18:01:46 michael: one interesting thing is that you might get notifications that you would want to speak to, but without clicking
18:02:22 robert: was mostly thinking about things like "reply", but you could also imagine saying "read it to me" after notification
18:02:47 ...made up a method to cancel TTS
18:03:24 michael: you could just delete the element
18:03:36 robert: what if you set up the element with stuff in it?
18:03:49 glenn: destroy should not be to only way to cancel
18:05:44 topic: Milan's example of protocol
18:06:12 milan: will augment with API calls that trigger protocols
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18:07:46 ...need a result index of some kind
18:08:12 ...then recognizer decides to change its mind and reorders results
18:10:26 ...strange to get a "complete" result in the middle of a long dictation
18:11:29 ...result index 0 is the first fragment, then halfway through the second fragment, the recognizer says the first one is done
18:11:51 ...different from MRCP, because in MRCP that means it's the end of it
18:12:41 ...then retracts a result, not sure how to represent this, maybe an "IN_PRO
18:12:59 ...GRESS" message with no payload
18:13:30 ... we will put this in the larger document as an example of the protocol
18:14:02 topic: michael johnston's multimodal use case
18:14:19 Could you please paste links to the example here
18:14:21 michael: "I want to go from here to there" is the use case
18:14:40 ( would be then easier to read minutes later )
18:15:39 Michael's example: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/att-0020/multimodal_example.html
18:16:15 You can walk through the examples from: http://bantha.org/~mbodell/speechxg/f2f.html which links to http://bantha.org/~mbodell/speechxg/examples.html which then walks through the examples
18:16:30 glenn: it would be good to have a "state" attribute
18:17:12 ...the "nomatch" state is more of a result, not a state
18:17:42 ...we may need more than one attribute to get results of speech processing
18:18:21 michael: this also has the EMMA so that you can see the mapping from EMMA
18:18:37 ...this example makes use of a remote speech service
18:19:11 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/att-0020/multimodal_example.html
18:19:24 ...the EMMA shows the combined speech and gui input
18:20:13 robert: this should be a wss: , that is, a web socket protocol, but what should we do if someone uses http?
18:21:40 michael: you could get the command right but not the person if you didn't do the "clickInfo"
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18:22:27 topic: Charles Hemphill's example
18:22:27 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/0024.html
18:23:00 danD: we should start with the simplest example
18:24:21 topic: Michael Bodell's example 8, translation
18:24:31 http://bantha.org/~mbodell/translate.html
18:24:41 view-source:http://bantha.org/~mbodell/translate.html
18:24:42 michael: different example of translation
18:25:15 ...there's from and to languages, you choose, and then click on microphone to talk
18:25:45 ...there's a progress bar that get's updated
18:26:26 ...we're grabbing our language from the selector, we're using a dictation grammar for whatever language we're using
18:26:43 ...where are we doing capture?
18:26:57 glen: wouldn't that be the microphone?
18:27:14 michael: not necessarily, there could be other things like media streams
18:27:58 glen: is capture necessary or does it just provide more features?
18:28:52 michael: we didn't have any examples of capture from other places, like from Web RTC
18:29:13 ...right now there's no standard for accessing microphone
18:29:40 glen: would like to see default example where we don't have to explicitly do capture
18:30:11 michael: all examples assume that there's magic for capturing audio
18:30:28 glen: can't we make it so that the magic is what happens by default?
18:30:50 dan: there are many security and privacy issues
18:31:13 ...different permissions for getting access to media but also to do something to the media
18:32:00 michael: this is also raised in some of our issues, we only have a two sentence note now
18:32:22 ...can TTS work on Web Sockets?
18:32:25 robert: yes
18:33:25 michael: on audio start, etc. are in our spec. another issue is that payload of start, stop events isn't defined
18:33:56 robert:: do we have VU meter events?
18:34:14 michael: no
18:34:25 dan: that came up in Web RTC, they don't have that, but they could create it
18:34:43 michael: we do have speech-x events for custom extensions
18:34:57 robert: most speech apps have one
18:35:11 michael: is that part of the UA or the app?
18:35:32 topic: Debbie's example
18:35:52 multi-slot filling
18:35:56 Debbie's: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/att-0031/Multi-slotSpeech1.html
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18:37:43 debbie: in this example you have to pull out the slot values from the EMMA
18:38:54 robert: is this the same as saying "interpretation.booking"?
18:39:21 debbie: not sure
18:39:50 ... we don't know what's in "interpretation"
18:40:48 robert: we could get rid of "interpretation"
18:41:16 michael: it could be a useful pointer into the EMMA
18:41:57 michael: that is available in VXML
18:42:38 Issue: we should make sure it is clear what the interpretation points to
18:42:38 Created ISSUE-1 - We should make sure it is clear what the interpretation points to ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/htmlspeech/track/issues/1/edit .
18:43:36 michael: should do an if to make sure that you really got a value
18:44:21 debbie: could add the EMMA
18:44:57 ...would there be value in some kind of convenience syntax so that you don't need the full DOM generality to manipulate the EMMA result?
18:44:57 Charles' example: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/0033.html
18:45:18 topic: another example from Charles Hemphill
18:45:36 michael: the same example as before but with an external grammar
18:46:12 avery: what's the advantage of having "reco" element as a child under "input"
18:46:54 michael: there are two different ways to do the same thing, with "reco" under "child" you don't need an id
18:47:07 element can't have child elements
18:47:22 s/"child"/ as a "child" under
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18:48:12 actually, input is a child of reco in the proposal
18:48:37 My comments to example 3 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/0034.html
18:48:57 michael: another example with a real inline grammar so that you don't have to do data uri
18:49:38 michael: we would have to define a "grammar" tag
18:49:54 robert: we would have to define for browsers how to interpret SRGS
18:50:25 avery: like putting script in page vs an external reference
18:50:44 Milan: remember, we're talking about HTML here, not XML
18:50:55 (I assume that was Milan)
18:51:13 milan: could we say "as long as this is valid XML ignore it and pass it to us"?
18:51:34 robert: why wrap the whole thing with the grammar element?
18:51:57 michael: if there's an SRGS 1.1, you wouldn't know what version it was, for example
18:52:30 ...would like to have inline grammar, if any, be full SRGS with element
18:53:22 michael: that is the end of the examples
18:55:15 rrsagent, format minutes
18:55:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/03-htmlspeech-minutes.html ddahl_
18:55:23 * Good point Ollie
18:55:40 -Olli_Pettay
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20:05:20 scribenick: glen
20:05:42 topic: issues
20:07:38 +??P0
20:07:47 Zakim, ??P0 is Olli_Pettay
20:07:48 +Olli_Pettay; got it
20:08:00 burnett: if can't agree, depends on importance. If important, capture different opinions in doc.
20:08:38