20:37:37 RRSAgent has joined #righttolink 20:37:37 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/02-righttolink-irc 20:37:52 rrsagent, make logs public 20:39:01 scribenick: npdoty 20:40:43 torgo: might be useful for W3C to make a statement about how linking works 20:40:53 … definitions and understanding for legal and regulatory uses 20:41:49 … a lot of legal thinking is based on the metaphor of a page of content viewed by the user, born out of print media 20:42:27 stakagi has joined #righttolink 20:42:31 … but it doesn't really work that way, who are the actors, what is their role in a page 20:43:25 … linking, terms and conditions statements about deep-linking, republishing material from a website, sublicensing 20:43:49 … gag orders (like the Twitter examples about celebrities in the UK) 20:44:36 RalphS has joined #righttolink 20:45:14 … copyrighting aspects of framing 20:46:34 HenryThompson: takedowns from the Department of Commerce on certain websites, but you can still see the pages on the Wayback Machine 20:47:23 Wayback Machine has some exemption from copyright concerns? 20:47:50 torgo: intention of this document is not to give carte blanche to anyone who wants to post anything on the Web 20:48:36 … we're not saying (not our role) that you're allowed to link, but that linking is a speech act 20:49:04 … rights to freedom of expression will vary by jurisdiction 20:50:08 @@: linking in/out of context, embedding a frame 20:51:54 torgo: document contains definitions of basic terms (a page, linking, embedding, hosting, etc.) 20:52:33 … describing to a non-technical audience what it means to host a page 20:53:26 … feedback: is this accurate from a technology perspective? and is it useful for a policy perspective? does it go too far / too opinionated? 20:55:04 Noah: the TAG taking a position of linking as a speech act could itself be an opinion violating that principle 20:56:02 BradK has joined #righttolink 20:56:55 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/publishingAndLinkingOnTheWeb.html "Publishing and Linking on the Web", TAG Editor's Draft 27 October 2011 20:57:22 torgo: clearly delineate which parts discuss the positive/negative impacts on the Web, and separate them from factual presentation 20:59:05 Olvier: consider disambiguating what acts are "performance" in the copyright sense; what acts are "speech" 21:00:01 Noah: I'd avoid the legal terms as (a) they're not our area of expertise and (b) they vary across jurisdictions 21:00:18 ... stick to explaining what the Web does 21:01:33 olivier: it would be useful at some point to have some IP lawyers involved in this documentation 21:01:41 Noah: meeting with Rigo on Friday as one step 21:03:24 npdoty: there might be people at UC Berkeley who would be interested in helping; Pam Samuelson, perhaps, but also other faculty including Brian Carver and Deirdre Mulligan; I can help make those contacts 21:04:04 @@: structuring the document differently would make it easier to understand; add a Frequently Asked Questions 21:04:27 s/@@/Dan Druta, AT&T/ 21:04:34 … encourage people on the web to link to this FAQ 21:05:04 … "read later" as an interesting use case, user-driven caching 21:05:37 … a user can bookmark and have it cached on a server (Instapaper, Read Later, etc.) 21:06:52 Noah: the involvement of the user for various forms of caching could make a difference to a court's judgment 21:07:11 DanD: becoming a popular trend, as in new version of iOS 21:07:47 … widgetizing a page out of publicly available content, and making it available to a user 21:08:30 … curating content 21:09:10 … is there liability to the moderator or curator? 21:12:58 npdoty: an example from the Tracking Protection Working Group about the potential copyright infringement of user agent tools that prevent making certain requests 21:13:55 Noah: note that user agents have a lot of flexibility about how they interpret a page (not loading images by default, varying presentation for accessibility or other purposes) 21:14:30 @@@: a range that would also include screen-scraping, for Flipboard, for example 21:18:00 torgo: in some cases we want to tell a content owner that if they want a particular protection, rather than defining it in a terms of service they could also take these simple technical measures 21:18:53 DanD: real-time translation another scenario, transforming content in a way that might not be approved (or even accurate) 21:19:01 21:19:11 s/@@@/Brad Kemper/ 21:21:20 hadley: people generally understand that linking to something is talking about it without the target's endorsement 21:21:56 … the granularity that links allow to a single piece of data (Linked Data) affects this perception 21:23:00 … usually you link to a specific piece of data in the context of another act of interpretation, analysis or processing 21:23:42 [ Note - someone else we may want to talk to is Michael Geist: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/767/157/ ] 21:25:07 Noah: could say, let's assume that links are benign, with a discussion of context 21:26:14 … though the text of the URI itself could make a difference 21:27:04 olivier: fair use will vary by country, which is one danger of giving interpretations for a particular country 21:28:21 Noah: should just describe the consequences, rather than taking a position about which consequences you policymakers should avoid 21:30:21 torgo: continue discussion on the public tag email list 21:30:52 rrsagent, draft minutes 21:30:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/02-righttolink-minutes.html npdoty 21:33:40 npdoty has joined #righttolink 21:35:42 Bert has left #righttolink 21:38:20 olivier has left #righttolink 21:39:25 BradK has joined #righttolink 22:35:05 DKA has joined #righttolink 22:39:15 DKA has joined #righttolink 22:45:05 npdoty has joined #righttolink 23:29:11 DKA has joined #righttolink