18:24:48 RRSAgent has joined #global 18:24:48 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/02-global-irc 18:25:20 SteveB has joined #global 18:25:38 jn has joined #global 18:26:14 Meeting: Global Participation Breakout 18:27:23 Ruinan has joined #global 18:27:40 karen has joined #global 18:27:52 AnnB: 3 proposals combined 18:28:04 ted has joined #global 18:28:23 ... my original proposal was generally how to increase global participation 18:28:39 ... Ted Guild proposed to look at specific participation tools 18:29:10 anne: i'm asking about global participation in w3c and steve bratt (web foundation) is wanting to solve this problem for more audiences 18:29:21 ... Isuke wants to talk about an idea for a common language 18:29:25 barriers: 18:29:34 -language (lack of a common language) 18:29:38 -literacy 18:29:41 -time zones 18:30:00 -access to technology 18:30:07 -cost 18:30:12 -phone calls 18:30:15 -travel 18:30:41 -visa (international borders and obstacles) 18:31:14 Norbert has joined #global 18:32:09 [introductions] 18:33:03 masao has joined #global 18:33:41 -cultural differences 18:33:52 koalie has joined #global 18:34:04 -meeting/phone etiquette 18:34:56 s/and obstacles/and politics/ 18:35:46 on time zone issue: reading emails and minutes after a call is a disadvantage, conversation already took place. now out of context 18:36:19 on cultural differences: reluctance to speak an opposing opinion 18:37:58 email volume - take for example html5 ml which has 4-500 msgs/day 18:38:18 different interests by organization or country 18:40:19 example of specific (working|interest) group being run in parallel in more than one language 18:40:48 DavidKim has joined #global 18:41:26 it is not just about participation but representation of your needs and requirements 18:41:35 stakagi has joined #global 18:42:49 advocates, representatives able to collect input for a group and bring to w3c 18:44:50 IDEAS 18:45:11 - languages specific / local interest groups 18:45:48 - consider how to enable participation other than direct participation in group 18:46:45 ... (e.g. "advocates") - may be most effective if advocate has personal connection to the barrier 18:47:03 [Taisuke's slide] 18:47:16 -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globish_(Nerriere) Globish 18:48:49 See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English 18:48:53 kojiishi has joined #global 18:49:26 olivier, Simple English == Simplish? 18:49:43 hania has joined #global 18:49:52 hania has left #global 18:53:04 -SIMPLE language (e.g. "simple english", "globish") 18:56:11 Voice of America Simple Emglish Radio/video channel : http://www.voanews.com/learningenglish/home/ 18:57:45 Wikipedia defines "Basic English" http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English 18:59:30 karen has joined #global 19:00:01 ...find a real-time translator, so while in the queue they can enter what they are going to say 19:00:13 ...realize sooner when message does not make sense 19:00:16 ...use of tools 19:00:19 ...encouragement 19:00:25 Ann: A group chat tool 19:00:31 ...has an amazing translation 19:00:39 Ted: you set language preferences 19:00:44 Coralie:mibit 19:00:51 Ted: Dave Raggett has similar tool 19:00:58 Ann: question on subject of translation 19:01:10 ...how well people find automatic translation working for them 19:01:18 s/mibit/ mibbit.com, a web-based IRC client that translates and cross-translates/ 19:01:21 ...Google translation gives me a sense of what is being sait 19:01:51 ...I can read some French and Spanish, but use Chinese and Japanese translation 19:02:07 Richard: I speak English but also have trouble listening on conference calls 19:02:08 technical jargon 19:02:17 ...due to difficult concepts 19:02:37 Gharles: we need to be clear and speak slowy [imitating an example] 19:02:47 Ann: A guy yesterday spoke even faster than TimBL yesterday 19:02:57 s/slowy/slowly/ 19:03:03 Charles: what Ted said; tools to help us know when we are being too complicated 19:03:10 ...more important is understanding in groups 19:03:14 ...that you should behave like this 19:03:21 ...understanding that you should be trying to be clear 19:03:34 s/Gharles/Charles/ 19:03:34 ...and you should not be very humorous, witty, eloquent 19:03:39 ...using flowery language 19:03:46 ...it's about the culture of how we work 19:03:53 ...This is something we can decide, work towards 19:03:58 Olivier: and enforce 19:04:05 Charles: you have limits to enforcing 19:04:10 ...we have learned how to use irc 19:04:13 my suggestion was tools (eg use real time translators) and conventions. someone needs to be able to raise attention on a call that the level of english being used needs to be toned down towards globish/simplified english 19:04:26 ...we can use how to use clear communication and language 19:04:33 q+ 19:05:07 karen: we people speaks slowly, it helps people to scribe. 19:05:12 karen: interesting exercise for scribing. when one speaks slowly and clearly it is possible to scribe word for word instead of paraphrasing 19:05:17 s/we people/when people/ 19:05:48 Carl: excellent solution to a technical discussion 19:05:59 ...when you get into legal, political or other strategies 19:06:01 ...it will fail 19:06:06 ...it is a limited field of use 19:06:20 ...primarily limited to technical discussions where there is a shared understanding of the concepts 19:06:25 ...keep that in mind as a limitation 19:06:32 Charles: I don't entirely agree 19:06:45 ...Globish is most useful and effective in discussing concrete and logical things 19:06:50 ...it is an easy fit 19:06:55 [are politics logical? :)] 19:06:56 ...harder to use Globish to discuss art 19:06:59 ...complex legal ideals 19:07:05 Ann: or something specific to a culture 19:07:18 Charles: if we decide to make a culture where we try to be clear and simple 19:07:24 ...then we learn how to describe ideas better 19:07:34 ...it is possible to describe very complex things in very common language 19:07:36 ...it takes thinking 19:07:38 q+ 19:07:44 ...and until you are used to thinking about it 19:07:55 ...and until you decide it is valuable, people don't do the work to be clear 19:08:05 ...they just speak in whatever ways they want 19:08:10 ...the culture is important to making it work 19:08:13 ...we get better 19:08:17 ...not it works, it fails 19:08:23 ...it works a bit, it gets better 19:08:27 ...another point is good scribes 19:08:40 ...translate complex English into Globish 19:08:46 ...there are good scribes around W3C 19:08:57 Ann: nervous that we are going to miss lunch 19:09:12 ...and we have not even touched upon technologies and tools that Ted brought up 19:09:24 ...and we did not get to Ruinan's question of getting people to participate 19:09:42 ...and Carl's question about getting people to learn about W3C 19:09:48 Carl: if we adopt this approach 19:09:57 ...participation will become more fruitful and build upon momentum 19:10:07 Ann: I would like to propose...there are some empty slots 19:10:15 ...by the pool to talk about what Web Foundation is doing 19:10:26 ...a project to measure the success of the Web in the world 19:10:36 Steve: thanks for the plug 19:10:45 Ann: Ted, do you want to propose another session? 19:10:53 Ted: I was suggesting tools for helping for Globish 19:11:04 ...my original proposal was making W3C a better collaborative environmnet 19:11:14 ...when we are not f2f cannot see people's reactions 19:11:35 ...I did not feel so strongly about video, but starting to feel differently 19:11:45 RRSAgent, pointer? 19:11:45 See http://www.w3.org/2011/11/02-global-irc#T19-11-45 19:11:48 Ann: Boeing uses video effectively and I would be happy to talk about it 19:12:05 Ted: regardless if language is a barrier, one needs to re-explain 19:12:20 ...maybe we can come up with simple way to flag things on irc 19:12:29 Charles: like don't use the word "facilitate" 19:12:38 Ted: Maybe flag to the speaker that they are losing people 19:12:51 Ann: In Boeing and you cannot get in, there is a beeper 19:13:05 Charles: tools can help us but won't save us 19:13:15 ...what we decide to do will make a difference 19:13:24 ...culture matters and the way we agree to work 19:13:32 ...When I went to France to learn French 19:13:41 ...I sat down with native French speakers 19:13:46 ...and asked them to correct me 19:13:51 ...and they did it again and again 19:13:55 ...don't say this, say that 19:13:59 ...and I learned over time 19:14:10 ...by doing it by asking people to help, people helped 19:15:24 RRSagent, make minutes 19:15:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/02-global-minutes.html koalie 19:15:57 RRSAgent, make logs public 19:16:28 meeting: Breakout: Global participation 19:16:33 chair: AnnBassetti 19:16:46 RRSagent, make minutes 19:16:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/02-global-minutes.html koalie 19:52:25 myakura has joined #global 20:08:06 Bert has left #global 20:15:11 kojiishi has joined #global 20:20:12 fukuno has joined #global 20:20:26 myakura has joined #global 20:22:55 present: AnnBassetti, TakiKamiya, HiroNakajima, TedGuild, KarenMyers, JariAlvinen, CarlCargill, CoralieMercier, SteveBratt, RichardIshida, RuinanSun, OlivierThereaux, WeidongMa, RalphSwick, BertBos, JunyaNakata, MasaoIsshiki, YuichiroFukushi, TaisukeFukuno, KojiIshii, Chaals, KazAshimura 20:23:01 RRSagent, make minutes 20:23:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/02-global-minutes.html koalie 20:34:26 olivier has left #global 20:43:58 kojiishi has joined #global 20:44:12 RalphS has joined #global 20:45:36 myakura has joined #global 21:11:51 SteveB has joined #global 21:32:50 SteveB has left #global 21:33:32 kojiishi has joined #global 22:16:43 i/AnnB: 3/scribenick: Ralph/ 22:17:02 s/anne/Ann/ 22:17:22 i/barriers:/scribenick: ted/ 22:17:38 i/IDEAS/scribenick: hiro/ 22:18:16 i/find a real-time/Ted: find a real-time/ 22:18:38 i/Wikipedia defines/scribenick: karen/ 22:18:40 RRSagent, make minutes 22:18:40 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/02-global-minutes.html koalie 22:19:33 s/Ted: find a real-time// 22:19:55 s/... find a real-time/Ted: fine a real-tim/ 22:20:00 s/real-tim/real-time/ 22:20:02 RRSagent, make minutes 22:20:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/02-global-minutes.html koalie 22:20:57 RRSAgent, bye 22:20:57 I see no action items