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22:39:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/02-games-irc
22:39:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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22:39:22 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
22:39:22 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
22:39:24 <trackbot> Meeting: Games Community Group Teleconference
22:39:26 <trackbot> Date: 02 November 2011
22:40:04 <marie> s/Teleconference/Breakout Session
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22:41:59 <mav> ted leung: goal to get people interested in games together. there is already a community group. today we will get games issues and get more CG participation.
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22:42:35 <mav> ted: ian: get a scribe sand end by :25
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22:42:56 <mav> ted: who is developing games? [few replied possibly]
22:43:15 <mav> marku: looking at games for ETS for education
22:43:30 <mav> ted: we develop everything from single player to massively multiplier games
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22:43:51 <marie> http://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2011/HTML5_and_Games
22:43:57 <mav> ted: just acquired game engine company & die for browser games
22:44:06 <marie> W3C games CG: http://www.w3.org/community/games/
22:44:16 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/community/games/
22:44:23 <mav> ted: how many interested in games due to mobile: [some yes]
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22:44:57 <mav> ted: a lot of interest in different approaches to game animation on web
22:45:10 <mav> ted: unfortunate conflict with game dev conf & TPAC
22:45:21 <mav> ted: join the games CG
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22:45:55 <marie> http://www.w3.org/2011/09/games/
22:45:57 <mav> marie: workshop late september collocated with OnGameStart (sp?) conf
22:46:12 <mav> marie: one outcome was games CG
22:46:51 <mav> marie: tomorrow AM HTML5 games summit happening in SF at Zynga HQ
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22:47:49 <tedleung> The Warsaw workshop was 1/2 day
22:47:54 <mav> francois daoust: want to highlight a few issues from workshop
22:48:21 <mav> francois: e.g. need joystick API, now in progress
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22:49:41 <mav> francois: adding joystick support to DOM events and also adding mouse lock:
22:49:52 <JonathanJ> FYI : HTML5 JavaScript Game Engines - https://github.com/bebraw/jswiki/wiki/Game-Engines
22:50:50 <sangwhan> RRSAgent, draft minutes
22:50:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/02-games-minutes.html sangwhan
22:51:07 <mav> francois: want platform hardware detect to enable or disable WebGL graphics acceleration.
22:51:42 <mav> francois: platform detect has fingerprinting security issue. TBD
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22:53:18 <mav> francois: web workers (background threads) useful for games, but cannot perform pass-by-reference, which is problem for passing large amounts of data (e.g. 3D environment model)
22:54:12 <mav> francois: could be a new item for web apps group.
22:54:37 <mav> francois: games group needs to drive requirements into WGs
22:55:04 <mav> francois: another example: orientation lock (w/o locking out user control)
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22:55:42 <mav> doug s: people should review the document
22:56:45 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/2011/09/games/
22:56:50 <mav> ted: game developers have long list of issues to make good games
22:57:54 <mav> ted: another issue: several ways to perform animation: not a clear model yet; lots of experimentation; probably have requirements to performance & testing groups.
22:57:59 <mhakkinen> s/Marku/mhakkinen/
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22:58:31 <mav> ted: are games developers largely focusing on canvas2d & webgl?
22:58:51 <mav> doug: no, zynga not using canvas
23:00:32 <mav> ted: our developers would love to do WebGL, but target is iOS devices. OpenGL not available to web apps on iOS. Also, not available on IE9.
23:01:07 <mav> ted: even canvas 2D not targeted because lots of non-HTML5 browsers in market.
23:01:29 <mav> francois: no one mentioned SVG
23:01:50 <mav> marcos: problem with SVG - no tools
23:02:03 <mav> ted: same with canvas (no tools)
23:02:27 <mav> marcos: if Flash could output to SVG, it would be great
23:03:14 <mav> doug: SVG WG cognizant of this: SVG new version will have better doc & performance enhancements that might get it used more.
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23:04:20 <mav> ted: we're looking for people to get input for games
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23:05:43 <mav> marcos: are some requirements on the web. hoping for more participation. already know the issues. same as issues with Flash in the 80s-90s (tools, ease of development, performance)
23:06:24 <mav> marcos: audio APIs are a big problem. too much latency. chrome improving audio APIs
23:06:35 <mav> doug: also safari nightlies
23:07:14 <mav> marcos: personally think canvas is a bad API. Using DIVs for games is weird.
23:08:10 <mav> marcos: All the crucial bits there, but not designed around games development production cycle
23:09:18 <mav> marcos: canvas issues: very low level, buffer manipulation, byte arrays from JS
23:09:38 <marie> don brutzman
23:10:36 <mav> don: web3D consortium. Declarative 3D group is collecting use cases and interested in game use cases
23:10:50 <vivien> vivien has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/community/games/
23:10:55 <mav> ted: join the games CG
23:11:10 <vivien> vivien has changed the topic to: "Join the Games CG" http://www.w3.org/community/games/
23:11:11 <Kris> Declarative 3D CG: http://www.w3.org/community/declarative3d/
23:11:28 <mav> doug: best outcome of CG is driving requirements into standards groups.
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23:13:19 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing
23:13:29 <mav> mav: advice on influencing WGs: 1) Only work on gaps  (2) File bugs
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23:13:46 <mav> doug: yes and (3) write demos (4) write tests
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23:15:47 <mav> sangwhan: It would be good to get feedback on browser bottlenecks. Recently wrote a game and uncovered lots of issues, even with browser src code access
23:16:15 <mav> ted: does w3c have perf tests for browsers
23:16:33 <mav> doug: not now: may come from web perf group or test group
23:17:03 <mav> marcos: web perf group looking at high rez timers
23:17:31 <mav> ted: is apple participating
23:17:37 <mav> marcos: not currently
23:17:59 <mav> marcos: need to attract more participants
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23:18:20 <mav> marku: what about accessible game guidelines?
23:18:49 <mav> ted: would be great for CG. Difficult for canvas. 
23:19:02 <mav> marcos: relying on DOM events which are accessible.
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23:20:35 <mhakkinen> accessible games guidelines http://gameaccess.medialt.no/guide.php
23:20:39 <mav> marcos: seen that mouse and keyboard games fail on iPad: brings up accessibility issues for all, not just those with disabilities
23:21:56 <JonathanJ1> rrsagent, make minutes
23:21:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/02-games-minutes.html JonathanJ1
23:22:15 <mav> ted: goal of using web on iPad instead of iOS is: TTM & multiple targets (e.g. Android & Connected TVs)
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23:23:29 <mav> Tansuke: Showing demo: am a vendor of sw for feature phones.
23:23:58 <mav> tansuke: new W3C logo
23:24:11 <mav> tansuke: web is best game platform
23:25:41 <mav> Showing demo of educational platform using interpreted language and simple graphical display for kids to learn program.
23:25:47 <sangwhan> s/ansuke/aisuke/g
23:26:06 <francois> RRSAgent, draft minutes
23:26:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/02-games-minutes.html francois
23:26:25 <mav> tansuke: dream for developing country to make education kit: "JavaScript + Globish"
23:26:37 <mav> meeting ends
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