16:04:53 RRSAgent has joined #webevents 16:04:53 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/01-webevents-irc 16:05:02 RRSAgent, make log Public 16:05:09 Scribe: Art 16:05:14 Chair: Art 16:05:24 Meeting: Web Events WG 16:05:30 Date: 1 November 2011 16:05:49 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/wiki/F2F 16:06:02 Josh_Soref has joined #webevents 16:06:49 Present: Art_Barstow, Doug_Schepers, Philippe_LeHegaret, Josh_Soref, Cathy_Chan, Niklas_Widell, DongYoung_Lee 16:10:31 Present+ Sangwhan_Moon 16:11:01 Scribe: Josh_Soref 16:11:18 RRSAgent: draft minutes 16:11:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/01-webevents-minutes.html Josh_Soref 16:12:06 shepazu has joined #webevents 16:12:19 RRSAgent, make log public 16:12:54 Topic: Charter 16:13:08 http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/charter/2011/Overview.html 16:13:20 Cathy has joined #webevents 16:14:15 http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/charter/2011/Overview.html#out-of-scope 16:14:31 sangwhan has joined #webevents 16:14:32 ArtB: the only spec we've been working on is the "Touch Events Spec" 16:14:35 AB: publication status http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/wiki/PubStatus 16:14:46 s/ArtB/AB/ 16:14:57 nwidell has joined #webevents 16:14:59 Present+ Jari_Alvinen 16:15:45 RRSAgent, draft minutes 16:15:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/01-webevents-minutes.html sangwhan 16:15:50 ArtB: the group decided to fork the spec into Version 1 (codifying what's deployed in WebKit + Mozilla + Opera) and Version 2 (for features that are not yet implemented) 16:15:56 s/ArtB/AB/ 16:16:26 AB: LC ends Nov 17 16:16:44 s/LC/Touch Events v 1 LC/ 16:16:59 ... we don't expect many comments 16:17:04 ... and we'd then publish in December 16:17:36 ... matt b of mozilla has written some tests 16:18:24 [ Introductions ] 16:18:51 Topic: Proposed Charter Changes 16:19:16 i/the only spec/Topic: Pub Status/ 16:19:21 RRSAgent, draft minutes 16:19:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/01-webevents-minutes.html Josh_Soref 16:19:58 PH: we have comments on the charter! 16:22:24 AB: The gist of the proposal are two specs that we want to have sole ownership of: Mouse Lock, and Game Controllers 16:22:35 ... and another which we want to have joint ownership of 16:22:56 ... Mouse Lock is a proposal from the Chrome team to enable Games using HTML5 APIs 16:23:22 ... They contributed their initial draft and it's in the hg repo 16:23:52 http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/charter/2011/Overview.html 16:23:58 ... But there hasn't been official discussion and we don't plan to do so until the charter is updated 16:24:23 s|http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/charter/2011/Overview.html|| 16:24:38 ... There's work by Mozilla on a Joystick API, and Google has done work as well 16:24:49 ... they've agreed to coedit a Gamepad API 16:25:04 ... we just need AC approval before we start working on it formally 16:25:08 RRSAgent, draft minutes 16:25:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/01-webevents-minutes.html Josh_Soref 16:27:49 DS: There are 4 conceptual levels of events 16:28:01 ... physical, gestural, representational, intentional 16:28:24 ... When I touch the screen, what is the event that is triggered by that action 16:28:29 ... that's representational 16:28:42 ... and then there's "what did the user intend to do" 16:28:51 ... that's intentional (the Use Case) 16:29:03 ... the gestural is somewhat between physical and representational 16:29:22 ... gestural is one or more physical actions that together become a representational event 16:29:33 ... for instance a double tap 16:29:53 ... the mapping between physical and representational is different for every device 16:34:02 AB: The User Action Events (often called "Intentional Events") 16:34:06 ... has been in scope for a while 16:34:14 ... but we haven't made much progress on it 16:34:26 sangwhan has joined #webevents 16:34:31 ... James Craig of Apple has a draft spec 16:34:43 ... and we were working to codify that relationship 16:34:58 ... PF doesn't want to take ownership of that Spec 16:35:40 AB: DRAFT Charter for Intentional Events WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/08/intentional-events-charter#deliverables 16:36:14 ... Instead, there's a proposal for a new WG solely for that Spec 16:36:29 ... And Web Events would be a Joint deliverable with that WG 16:37:08 ... And IP commitments on that Spec are only for that individual Spec (from people in either Group) 16:38:53 ... We'll meet with the PF people in Ponderossa to talk about Intentional 16:39:08 DS: The Intentional Events WG will probably change its name 16:39:17 ... There's also something called Web Intents 16:39:22 ... which is totally unrelated 16:40:46 Present+ Russell_Berkoff 16:41:20 Topic: Other Charter Proposals 16:41:30 DS: there have been people who asked about adding MIDI to the charter of this group 16:41:59 ... JA had asked about whether it matters whether something is connected or not 16:42:08 ... there's also the DAPI (DAP) WG 16:42:34 ... MIDI and Game Controllers unlike classic Mice are bidirectional 16:42:39 ... e.g. Game Controllers vibrate 16:43:25 AB: As of yesterday, only Google has expressed formal interest of MIDI 16:43:40 ... last night ETRI expressed an interest in MIDI 16:44:01 …. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011OctDec/0091.html 16:44:05 JonathanJ has joined #webevents 16:44:39 JS: Haptic will run into DAP 16:45:03 DS: MIDI has the potential to run into Audio 16:45:30 AB: I asked Chris Wilson of Google to mention his MIDI proposal on the public list 16:45:54 SW: The problem with the ETRI proposal is that a lot of the items mentioned can be grouped by category 16:46:15 ... trackball, I haven't seen a device where user agents can capture raw inputs from the controller 16:46:34 ... either way, I don't think expanding the number of devices in the user agent will help in the long run 16:47:00 ... it just increases complexity, implementation cost, and reading / code use for developers 16:47:18 ... trackball has 2 or 4 axes but normally looks like a mouse 16:47:28 ... wimote is really two controllers 16:47:43 ... - a camera that captures IR light 16:47:56 ... - an accelerometer which conflicts with the Geo WG 16:48:11 ACTION: barstow respond to ETRI's Expanding Target Input Devices proposal 16:48:11 Created ACTION-86 - Respond to ETRI's Expanding Target Input Devices proposal [on Arthur Barstow - due 2011-11-08]. 16:48:13 ... in theory, that should be two specs 16:48:22 ... and neither should be in our WG 16:49:38 ... Gesture in their proposal is really camera recognition 16:50:10 AB: The charter as currently structured would exclude that form of Gesture 16:50:38 SW: I don't think computer vision should be covered in this charter 16:51:36 DS: My main concern is 16:51:42 ... we want our group to be tightly scoped 16:51:51 ... so we can accomplish our deliverables in a timely fashion 16:52:07 ... and we want to be friendly to organizations to enable them to join and provide their experience 16:52:17 ... and I don't want to add things where we don't have editors 16:52:30 ... I want a tightly run group so we can achieve our deliverables 16:52:41 AB: I'm opposed to adding a deliverable without two vendors committed to implementing 16:53:42 RRSAgent, make minutes 16:53:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/01-webevents-minutes.html ArtB 17:00:28 AB: meeting adjourned 17:00:34 RRSAgent, make minutes 17:00:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/01-webevents-minutes.html ArtB 17:47:50 abarsto has joined #webevents 17:48:37 JonathanJ has left #webevents 17:48:51 JonathanJ has joined #webevents 18:37:54 nwidell has joined #webevents 18:56:22 sangwhan has joined #webevents 18:59:49 smaug has joined #webevents 19:00:36 smaug has joined #webevents 19:23:23 timeless_xchat has joined #webevents 20:03:31 abarsto has joined #webevents 20:08:05 JonathanJ has joined #webevents 20:09:39 nwidell has joined #webevents 20:09:52 JonathanJ has joined #webevents 20:19:02 timeless_xchat has joined #webevents 20:33:10 nwidell has joined #webevents 20:41:08 sangwhan has joined #webevents 21:10:03 nwidell has joined #webevents 21:11:35 shepazu has joined #webevents 21:16:36 sangwhan has joined #webevents 21:49:14 abarsto has joined #webevents 21:53:23 sangwhan has left #webevents 21:59:51 nwidell has joined #webevents 22:06:12 timeless_xchat has joined #webevents 22:17:36 nwidell has joined #webevents 23:03:52 nwidell has joined #webevents 23:04:34 smaug has joined #webevents 23:17:10 howard has joined #webevents 23:45:55 smaug has joined #webevents 23:51:02 howard has left #webevents 23:58:29 sangwhan has joined #webevents