16:52:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #audio
16:52:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-audio-irc
16:52:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:52:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 28346
16:52:11 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see RWC_(Audio WG)12:00PM scheduled to start 52 minutes ago
16:52:12 <trackbot> Meeting: Audio Working Group Teleconference
16:52:12 <trackbot> Date: 31 October 2011
16:52:36 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #audio
16:52:43 <olivier> Attendees: Chris, Alistair, Thierry, Olivier, Doug, Eric
16:53:21 <olivier> Topic: Where we are and how we got there. 
16:53:42 <tmichel> MediaStream Processing API
16:53:48 <tmichel> http://hg.mozilla.org/users/rocallahan_mozilla.com/specs/raw-file/tip/StreamProcessing/StreamProcessing.html#examples
16:53:54 <olivier> Currently two proposals on the table, plus interactions with WebRTC
16:54:16 <tmichel> Web Audio API
16:54:18 <tmichel> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/audio/raw-file/tip/webaudio/specification.html
16:55:16 <tmichel> we have two implementations of Web Audio API
16:55:36 <olivier> Doug: one proposal is edited by Chris (Rogers) (Google), and has mature implementations
16:56:13 <olivier> ... the other from Robert O Callahan, good ideas but the proposal is still at early stage, with not a lot of implementation yet
16:56:19 <tmichel> Are there implmentaion of MediaStream Processing API from Robert O'Callahan ?
16:56:32 <tmichel> Seems thare are early stage implementation
16:57:13 <eric_carlson> eric_carlson has joined #audio
16:57:56 <tmichel> thierry: let's map the proposal
16:58:14 <olivier> Thierry: seems to be a need for a matrix mapping the two proposals and their overlap
16:58:16 <tmichel> 14 uses cases from Robert O Callahan
16:58:24 <olivier> ... maybe at the use case / requirement level?
16:58:43 <olivier> Alistair: we did collect use case in the incubator group
16:58:48 <tmichel> 14 uses cases at 
16:58:49 <tmichel> http://hg.mozilla.org/users/rocallahan_mozilla.com/specs/raw-file/tip/StreamProcessing/StreamProcessing.html#scenarios
16:58:57 <olivier> ... audio has so many use cases, very large spectrum
17:01:46 <tmichel> Should have a requirement document including Robert's use cases.
17:01:54 <tmichel> May add more uses cases
17:02:28 <tmichel> Olivier: Is Robert O'Callahan part of the WG ?
17:02:57 <tmichel> No, he seems to busy to join. Other Mozilla people are part of it
17:04:17 <olivier> Doug: there is also the WebRTC interaction - needs to be a tighter collaboration between the two groups
17:04:43 <olivier> ... also, we should look at their use cases
17:04:54 <olivier> rrsagent, pointer
17:04:54 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-audio-irc#T17-04-54
17:06:13 <olivier> Doug: suggest this meeting could start a wiki page with use cases
17:15:32 <olivier> Chris: there is a 3rd implementation - the GTK port of webkit has an implementation of the audio API
17:16:03 <olivier> ... which is important to note since different ports of webkit can differ a lot, especially at the media level
17:16:49 <olivier> ... there is not much shared code in different versions/ports.
17:17:40 <olivier> ... thousands of lines of code on the chrome side to talk to speakers on mac, windows, linux, chromeos
17:17:50 <olivier> ... some of it could be ported to gecko
17:18:10 <olivier> ... (not necessarily trivial, could take months)
17:23:00 <olivier> Olivier: suggest we set up a process for moving forward. How to send, address proposals
17:23:40 <olivier> Doug: maybe inspired from the HTML group?
17:23:56 <olivier> Thierry: would the requirements doc be a group note? 
17:24:12 <olivier> Doug: just a wiki for now. Let's keep the process light
17:25:22 <tmichel> or a much more formal WG document published as LC ?
17:26:27 <olivier> RESOLUTION: no objection to moving to FPWD. There will be an e-mail call for objections to this publication
17:27:20 <olivier> Topic: media capture API
17:27:41 <olivier> Chris: do we need it still given there is a proposal in RTC?
17:28:50 <olivier> Doug: no clear agreement on it yet. Microsoft just joined the DAP group and seems to think the media capture API should be specified there
17:41:04 <eric_carlson> eric_carlson has joined #audio
17:41:54 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #audio
17:42:02 <FILT3R> FILT3R has joined #audio
17:53:20 <olivier> [BREAK]
17:53:28 <olivier> [GROUP RECONVENES]
17:56:32 <olivier> Topic: live-editing of use cases document
17:57:09 <olivier> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/wiki/Use-Cases
18:02:07 <olivier> Olivier: if we are working more on tech requirements, should we reference to the lists of use cases already done by Robert and by the Incubator group? Maybe they can be merged into one list at some point
18:02:25 <olivier> Alistair: agree.
18:06:13 <shepazu> shepazu has joined #audio
18:15:16 <olivier> Eric: the goal should be to describe the things the API enables people to do before they start building anything
18:15:35 <olivier> [discussion on level of detail / technical complexity of the doc]
18:15:53 <olivier> Eric: list of compelling use cases - things that are impossible to do with current apis on the web, or really difficult
18:16:44 <olivier> Chris: shows http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/webaudio/intro 
18:26:13 <olivier> Eric: we need to come up *eventually* to come up with a document readable by the layman
18:46:40 <olivier> ... looking at examples from http://chromium.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/audio/index.html
18:46:52 <olivier> Alistair: notes that there is also some work in CSS Voice
18:49:02 <tobie> tobie has joined #audio
18:59:47 <Zakim> Zakim has left #audio
19:21:07 <olivier> [GROUP BREAKS FOR LUNCH]
19:21:15 <olivier> RRSAgent, make minutes
19:21:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-audio-minutes.html olivier
19:21:32 <olivier> RRSAgent, make minutes public
19:21:32 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', olivier.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
19:21:38 <olivier> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:21:41 <olivier> RRSAgent, make minutes
19:21:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-audio-minutes.html olivier
20:13:02 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #audio
20:15:44 <FILT3R> FILT3R has joined #audio
20:15:50 <colinbdclark> colinbdclark has joined #audio
20:19:22 <shepazu> shepazu has joined #audio
20:31:35 <tobie> tobie has joined #audio
20:35:39 <FILT3R> ROC is going to join us by phone in an hour.
21:00:56 <eric_carlson> eric_carlson has joined #audio
21:11:40 <shepazu> F1LT3R: please let me know when that starts
21:36:42 <shepazu> can we please delay the call until 3:00?
21:39:54 <olivier> call hasn't started yet
21:40:47 <FILT3R> delay confirmed :)
21:49:41 <olivier> someone from the hotel staff is helping us with polycom, we should be able to call you
21:50:17 <olivier> The number is (408) 986 6635
21:50:31 <olivier> no extension needed
21:51:21 <olivier> s/we should be able to call you/you should be able to call us/
21:51:27 <olivier> or we can set up the bridge
22:12:58 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #audio
22:30:35 <shepazu> shepazu has joined #audio
22:33:01 <roc> roc has joined #audio
22:34:27 <FILT3R> hi roc, we have a number you can call in on here...
22:34:39 <FILT3R> (408) 986 6635 (no extension needed)
22:36:28 <roc> now?
22:36:36 <FILT3R> yes please :)
22:38:38 <shepazu> roc: are you having trouble?
22:40:20 <FILT3R> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/wiki/Use-Cases
22:40:29 <olivier> Topic: summary of morning work
22:40:41 <olivier> RRSAgent, pointer
22:40:41 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-audio-irc#T22-40-41
22:41:07 <olivier> Alistair: we started work on a set of tech requirements http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/wiki/Use-Cases
22:41:49 <olivier> Roc: do you want to signal those who can be / are addressed in the html5 media api?
22:42:27 <olivier> Doug: we should write them all down and then (later) write down where and whether they can be done
22:42:51 <olivier> Eric: does make sense to know which things can be done well with the media element
22:43:05 <olivier> Chris: the list is not complete, we just had a brainstorm
22:43:42 <olivier> Doug: want to determine how we move forward, we need a draft out in public which can act as a basis
22:44:17 <olivier> ACTION: Chris to help Roc with publication process
22:44:17 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Chris
22:44:17 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. clowis, crogers)
22:44:46 <olivier> Doug: no objection to start with a first public draft of Chris' web audio  api
22:44:52 <olivier> Doug: ?...
22:45:14 <olivier> Roc: no strong objection, but not comfortable with the fact people will see it as official work of the group
22:45:36 <olivier> Doug: could have a mention in the draft that it its not the only approach
22:45:42 <olivier> Eric: it's a working draft...
22:46:49 <olivier> Doug: implementatiom experience is important here. Two implementations (three with GTK port)
22:47:03 <olivier> Chris: some shared code, not all
22:47:18 <olivier> Roc: Important to have implementation in different engines
22:47:35 <olivier> Doug: that's fair, not a problem for FPWD though, more for CR and beyond
22:48:01 <olivier> Doug: what's the status of your proposal Roc?
22:48:26 <olivier> Roc: ready to be looked at, implementation is ongoing and spec has changed based on implementation experience
22:48:44 <olivier> ... does need some work, mostly need feedback from the group
22:49:16 <olivier> Doug: important to have things out in the public. Would you be comfortable having your doc as FPWD?
22:49:29 <olivier> Roc: I would, but depends on feedback from the group
22:49:58 <olivier> Doug: from a process pov, would be easiest to communicate the message with two FPWD
22:50:25 <olivier> ... within next couple of weeks we should be looking at publishing the two FPWDs
22:50:35 <olivier> ... and discuss whether/how to merge, etc
22:50:46 <olivier> ... the public should know we're discussing the two approaches
22:51:06 <olivier> ... we really need some sort of public output from this group
22:53:05 <olivier> RESOLUTION: next call will look at publication as FPWD of the two documents
22:54:59 <olivier> Topic: use cases document
22:55:22 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #audio
22:55:25 <olivier> -> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/wiki/Use-Cases Use cases / Requirements doc started today
23:06:02 <shepazu> shepazu has joined #audio
23:11:17 <olivier> Discussing http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2011-June/032277.html
23:11:52 <olivier> Use cases around adaptive streaming
23:14:07 <tobie> tobie has joined #audio
23:15:59 <olivier> Alistair: seems to be very different issues between streaming and complex audio graphs
23:16:20 <olivier> ... I want to spend this week mostly getting all the use cases in one place
23:22:04 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #audio
23:33:47 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #audio
23:43:17 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #audio
23:53:14 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #audio