IRC log of eval on 2011-10-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:49:01 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #eval
13:49:01 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:49:03 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:49:03 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #eval
13:49:05 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 3825
13:49:05 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
13:49:06 [trackbot]
Meeting: WCAG 2.0 Evaluation Methodology Task Force Teleconference
13:49:06 [trackbot]
Date: 27 October 2011
13:53:39 [sinarmaya]
sinarmaya has joined #eval
13:54:48 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has now started
13:54:50 [Zakim]
+ +25430021aaaa
13:54:55 [Zakim]
- +25430021aaaa
13:54:56 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has ended
13:54:58 [Zakim]
Attendees were +25430021aaaa
13:56:14 [Kathy]
Kathy has joined #eval
13:56:33 [shadi]
zaki, code?
13:56:38 [shadi]
zakim, code?
13:56:38 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3825 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, shadi
13:56:45 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has now started
13:56:45 [Zakim]
13:57:23 [Zakim]
+ +90700021aaaa
13:57:23 [Zakim]
- +90700021aaaa
13:57:23 [Zakim]
+ +90700021aaaa
13:57:25 [Zakim]
13:57:43 [shadi]
zakim, ??p7 is shadi
13:57:43 [Zakim]
+shadi; got it
13:58:36 [shadi]
zakim, aaaa is sinarmaya
13:58:36 [Zakim]
+sinarmaya; got it
13:59:20 [SarahSwierenga]
SarahSwierenga has joined #eval
13:59:57 [Zakim]
14:00:26 [AmyChen]
AmyChen has joined #eval
14:00:26 [dboudreau]
dboudreau has joined #eval
14:00:50 [shadi]
zakim, shadi.a is really Sarah
14:00:50 [Zakim]
+Sarah; got it
14:01:00 [shadi]
zakim, who is on the call?
14:01:00 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Kathy, sinarmaya (muted), shadi, Sarah
14:01:19 [Zakim]
14:01:22 [Zakim]
14:01:34 [Kathy]
zakim, mute me
14:01:34 [Zakim]
Kathy should now be muted
14:01:43 [ericvelleman]
ericvelleman has joined #eval
14:02:26 [AmyChen]
zakim, mute me
14:02:26 [Zakim]
AmyChen should now be muted
14:02:42 [dboudreau]
zakim, mute me
14:02:42 [Zakim]
dboudreau should now be muted
14:02:55 [Zakim]
14:03:29 [shadi]
zakim, ipcaller is Kerstin
14:03:29 [Zakim]
+Kerstin; got it
14:03:32 [Zakim]
14:03:42 [kerstin]
kerstin has joined #eval
14:04:39 [Liz]
Liz has joined #eval
14:05:03 [Vincent]
Vincent has joined #eval
14:05:17 [shadi]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:05:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Kathy (muted), sinarmaya (muted), shadi, Sarah, AmyChen (muted), dboudreau (muted), Kerstin, Eric
14:05:22 [Zakim]
14:05:34 [ericvelleman]
Zakim, who is on the call
14:05:34 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is on the call', ericvelleman
14:05:35 [Zakim]
14:05:42 [Zakim]
+ +1.514.487.aabb
14:05:49 [ericvelleman]
Zakim, who is on the phone
14:05:49 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is on the phone', ericvelleman
14:06:01 [Zakim]
+ +1.502.632.aacc
14:06:01 [Vincent]
Zakim, aabb is Vincent
14:06:03 [Zakim]
+Vincent; got it
14:06:14 [dboudreau]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:06:14 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Kathy (muted), sinarmaya (muted), shadi, Sarah, AmyChen (muted), dboudreau (muted), Kerstin, Eric, Liz, [IPcaller], Vincent, +1.502.632.aacc
14:06:16 [Vincent]
Hi everyone
14:06:19 [agarrison]
agarrison has joined #eval
14:06:19 [ericvelleman]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:06:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Kathy (muted), sinarmaya (muted), shadi, Sarah, AmyChen (muted), dboudreau (muted), Kerstin, Eric, Liz, [IPcaller], Vincent, +1.502.632.aacc
14:06:26 [dboudreau]
14:06:41 [Vincent]
Strange noises on the phone
14:07:03 [Zakim]
14:07:15 [Vincent]
Zakim, mute me
14:07:15 [Zakim]
Vincent should now be muted
14:07:28 [kerstin]
zakim, mute me
14:07:28 [Zakim]
Kerstin should now be muted
14:07:33 [agarrison]
Call disconnected - I'll call back
14:08:15 [Zakim]
14:08:15 [ericvelleman]
Who wants to scribe?
14:08:27 [Tim]
Tim has joined #eval
14:08:37 [agarrison]
Zakim, ??P29 is me
14:08:37 [Zakim]
+agarrison; got it
14:08:44 [Vincent]
ack me
14:09:24 [Zakim]
14:09:28 [dboudreau]
ack me
14:09:46 [Vincent]
Zakim, mute me
14:09:46 [Zakim]
Vincent should now be muted
14:10:04 [shadi]
scribe: agarrison
14:10:10 [Nethermind]
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14:10:11 [dboudreau]
\o/ to alistair !!!
14:10:30 [Nethermind]
hi, all :) I'm here to learn what scribing means and looks like
14:10:46 [shadi]
Topic: Methodology naming
14:10:49 [kerstin]
thx alistair!
14:11:59 [agarrison]
Eric - Recap on short title
14:12:20 [shadi]
q+ to talk about "website"
14:12:33 [dboudreau]
q+ about using a nice sounding acronym
14:12:57 [agarrison]
large agreement for waem
14:12:58 [dboudreau]
q+ to talk about "nice sounding acronyms"
14:13:17 [AmyChen]
14:13:17 [ericvelleman]
14:13:20 [AmyChen]
14:13:23 [ericvelleman]
14:14:22 [agarrison]
shadi - people are not so convinced that naming is important. Outreach aspects are important to consider.
14:14:51 [agarrison]
shadi - using website might not be the most up to date term
14:15:17 [agarrison]
shadi - web information systems was not opposed by EOWG
14:15:22 [AmyChen]
14:15:23 [kerstin]
I asked some people to speak out WAEM in german, with strange results like wäm, waaaaaem, waaaaim :-)
14:15:40 [Nethermind]
q+ to talk about reception of acronyms by business stakeholders in big business
14:15:47 [AmyChen]
14:15:49 [agarrison]
shadi - what do people think of web information systems
14:16:07 [AmyChen]
14:16:07 [ericvelleman]
14:16:10 [Zakim]
14:16:28 [shadi]
ack me
14:16:28 [Zakim]
shadi, you wanted to talk about "website"
14:16:35 [agarrison]
shadi - should web information systems be used in place of websites
14:16:35 [shadi]
ack db
14:16:35 [Zakim]
dboudreau, you wanted to talk about "nice sounding acronyms"
14:17:21 [Mike_Elledge]
Mike_Elledge has joined #eval
14:18:06 [agarrison]
dboudreau - WISE as an ackronym might be better than WAEM - for outreach the term needs to be captivating
14:19:04 [agarrison]
dboudreau - we should try for an ackronym which would sum up what we are trying to achieve
14:19:27 [ericvelleman]
14:19:42 [agarrison]
eric - to get WISE we would need the term Web Information System
14:20:34 [shadi]
ack ne
14:20:34 [Zakim]
Nethermind, you wanted to talk about reception of acronyms by business stakeholders in big business
14:22:01 [AmyChen]
ack me
14:22:09 [agarrison]
elle - from big business perspective - ackronym needs to sum up what we are trying to achieve exactly. Website as a term is dated, however, Web Information Systems might not be procise either
14:23:00 [AmyChen]
I liked the short name WCAG-EM, gets away from needing acronym
14:23:01 [agarrison]
speaker? Possibly WCAG should come up with the ackroynm
14:23:04 [kerstin]
+1 for WCAG-EM
14:23:35 [ericvelleman]
14:23:36 [dboudreau]
+1 for WCAG-EM unless we can come up with something more creative with either WISE, AWARE or EQUAL
14:23:38 [AmyChen]
zakim, mute me
14:23:38 [Zakim]
AmyChen should now be muted
14:23:52 [Nethermind]
agree with AmyChen and dboudreau
14:24:03 [shadi]
14:24:15 [kerstin]
+1 for dboudreau :-)
14:24:16 [shadi]
14:24:20 [dboudreau]
zakim, mute me
14:24:20 [Zakim]
dboudreau should now be muted
14:24:45 [agarrison]
eric - the ackronym issue will continue to be discussed
14:24:52 [kerstin]
waaaaaem :-) geman
14:25:06 [ericvelleman]
14:25:12 [dboudreau]
at least with WCAG-EM, nobody needs to wonder about pronunciation… we've all learned to pronounce WCAG differently already ;p
14:25:13 [agarrison]
eric - will try and finalise ackronym issue - place it on the agenda for next week
14:25:14 [Mike_Elledge]
14:25:35 [SarahSwierenga]
+1 on voting on the narrowed list of names
14:25:45 [agarrison]
shadi - probably not something which will reach a solution for next week
14:26:06 [agarrison]
shadi - WCAG EM had alot of support
14:26:51 [agarrison]
shadi - it is something which will require a lot of thought as for easier promotion a good ackronym is important
14:27:10 [AmyChen]
including website/web information system in the subtitle would be good
14:27:24 [agarrison]
shadi - more ideas - playing with other terms like Web Information System
14:28:09 [agarrison]
eric - place it on agenda for next week
14:28:18 [ericvelleman]
14:28:32 [agarrison]
eric - next point table of contents
14:28:45 [shadi]
Topic: Table of contents
14:29:09 [agarrison]
eric - there was low feedback on the table of contents, so lets discuss
14:29:20 [ericvelleman]
14:29:44 [agarrison]
eric - no responses from "is this table of contents unusable"
14:30:59 [shadi]
14:31:01 [agarrison]
eric - overview of table of contents - trying to frame the table of contents in terms of typical standards document
14:31:22 [agarrison]
eric - no responses "is there anything missing"
14:31:48 [agarrison]
eric - requirements document covers sections 1 - 5
14:32:03 [Nethermind]
q+ regarding iterative process
14:32:06 [agarrison]
eric - section 6 - expertise for evaluating
14:32:11 [Nethermind]
14:32:21 [AmyChen]
14:32:24 [ericvelleman]
14:33:19 [agarrison]
Nethermind - question could be under 7.4 - is there anything which covers iterative checks.
14:33:49 [Tim]
14:34:22 [dboudreau]
ack me
14:34:39 [agarrison]
Nethermind - recommendation - how to cover iterative testing (automated testing, user acceptance testing).
14:35:31 [ericvelleman]
14:35:35 [AmyChen]
ack me
14:35:39 [Nethermind]
14:35:40 [dboudreau]
q+ to talk about "production processes vs maintenance processes"
14:36:21 [agarrison]
Amychen - iterative processes - weren't they covered in the scope. Possibly you might want to expand it in 7.4.
14:36:44 [agarrison]
Amychen - What was the discussion about splitting the methodology
14:37:27 [agarrison]
Eric - we need to mention that people with disabilities our involved
14:38:11 [agarrison]
Amychen - order of document is not as important as content. What were the two things which people suggested splitting
14:38:35 [ericvelleman]
14:38:36 [agarrison]
Eric - it was between technical part and overview - but this is something for later
14:38:46 [AmyChen]
zakim, mute me
14:38:46 [Zakim]
AmyChen should now be muted
14:39:12 [agarrison]
Tim - important to encourage in document evaluation during development of web systems
14:39:38 [shadi]
14:39:42 [shadi]
ack t
14:39:45 [vivienne]
vivienne has joined #eval
14:40:05 [agarrison]
Tim - are we looking at different roles of evaluators - possibly it could be difficult to fit all roles into the same document.
14:40:10 [Nethermind]
agree RE: different roles and the expansion of this document, dboudreau has a good document for role based accessibility requirements
14:40:26 [Zakim]
14:40:26 [dboudreau]
yep, i do ;p
14:40:40 [agarrison]
Tim - normative and formative recommendations should be split out
14:40:44 [AmyChen]
14:40:49 [ericvelleman]
14:41:14 [Tim]
14:41:20 [dboudreau] Accessibility responsibility breakdown (WCAG 2.0)
14:41:30 [shadi]
zakim, ??p39 is vivienne
14:41:30 [Zakim]
+vivienne; got it
14:41:40 [agarrison]
dboudreau - this is what elle was referring to.
14:41:41 [Tim]
QA Framework Primer - #3 Role-Based View
14:42:08 [agarrison]
dboudreau - this could be a way to split the methodology into roles.
14:42:26 [Nethermind]
dboudreau, totally agree
14:42:55 [agarrison]
dboudreau - often asked why there is not a seperate evaluation method for development and maintainenace of web systems.
14:43:41 [agarrison]
eric - could be a problem to solve later in the evaluation methodology
14:44:00 [agarrison]
eric - should also keep in mind roles
14:44:05 [ericvelleman]
14:44:11 [shadi]
ack db
14:44:12 [Zakim]
dboudreau, you wanted to talk about "production processes vs maintenance processes"
14:44:33 [agarrison]
dboudreau - also we discussed preliminary and deeper evaluations
14:44:42 [dboudreau]
14:44:50 [AmyChen]
ack me
14:44:56 [agarrison]
eric - this was not the same thing as iterative
14:45:32 [dboudreau]
zakim, mute me
14:45:32 [Zakim]
dboudreau should now be muted
14:45:41 [agarrison]
amychen - conformance claim should be made when the website is built. Is there a wiki or some way to all look at the documents we are creating
14:46:15 [agarrison]
eric - we are planning to put all this information in a webpage - however, shadi mentioned a wiki
14:46:25 [agarrison]
amychen - wiki would be great
14:46:30 [Kathy]
that would be great
14:46:34 [Nethermind]
14:46:43 [Nethermind]
it's hard for me to follow email threads
14:47:03 [agarrison]
shadi - wiki could be made for the group, it can over complicate things however
14:47:37 [Kathy]
14:47:51 [agarrison]
shadi - sometimes it does not allow public to tell the difference between raw content and agreed content
14:48:27 [agarrison]
eric - it would be good to allow everyone to add things directly, with content edited
14:49:08 [agarrison]
shadi - editing / acknowledgements takes a lot of resource
14:49:18 [Mike_Elledge]
Could be very useful for collaboration...identifying our edits with our initials wld also permit discussion...
14:49:26 [agarrison]
eric - like mailing list as its easier
14:50:02 [agarrison]
amychen - commenting on document would be more active if wiki was used
14:50:32 [ericvelleman]
14:50:33 [Kathy]
ack me
14:50:37 [agarrison]
eric - I will think about wiki to see how much work is envolved - on agenda for next time
14:51:16 [shadi]
14:51:22 [agarrison]
kathy - email could be made easier with clearer threads
14:51:36 [AmyChen]
14:51:43 [Nethermind]
14:51:43 [dboudreau]
+1 to kathy though it's always been a problem in every W3C WG
14:51:46 [agarrison]
eric - agree, it is difficult to follow threads currently
14:51:54 [ericvelleman]
14:52:00 [agarrison]
shadi - agree also
14:52:18 [agarrison]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:52:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate agarrison
14:52:40 [Kathy]
zakim, mute me
14:52:40 [Zakim]
Kathy should now be muted
14:53:00 [agarrison]
shadi - better to send more emails if it allows subjects to remain clear - with clear threads
14:53:41 [ericvelleman]
14:53:48 [shadi]
14:54:04 [agarrison]
shadi - Eric and shadi to think about how best to manage changes to documents etc...
14:54:36 [agarrison]
eric - proposal to take table of contents, format it and put it into a document online
14:55:13 [agarrison]
eric - which is best way to discuss, should be take it section by section
14:55:27 [dboudreau]
+1 to breaking it down yes
14:55:44 [AmyChen]
14:55:44 [agarrison]
eric - we need to flesh out the different sections using the discussion list
14:56:01 [shadi]
Topic: Any other business
14:56:04 [shadi]
14:56:39 [ericvelleman]
14:56:41 [agarrison]
eric - any other business, 1) we have been gathering information about different evaluation methodologies, keep sending in well documented evaluation methods
14:57:05 [ericvelleman]
14:57:22 [agarrison]
shadi - wiki of research and development groups will include links to all the collected evaluation methods
14:57:27 [Mike_Elledge]
14:58:04 [ericvelleman]
14:58:04 [agarrison]
eric - 2) use cases and scenarios - it would be useful to make links to these also
14:58:22 [Nethermind]
14:59:00 [agarrison]
shadi - different use cases for people conducting evaluations or reasons for having an evaluation conducted would be useful to collect
14:59:21 [ericvelleman]
14:59:25 [shadi]
14:59:27 [agarrison]
shadi - these could be useful when testing the applicability of the method we create
15:00:19 [agarrison]
shadi - reminder about daylight saving in Europe - and the shift in US time for meeting, one week later the US will then shift also
15:00:36 [ericvelleman]
15:00:50 [agarrison]
Mike - confused between level of detail to provide
15:01:23 [agarrison]
Mike - we have concentrated on public methods, but it would be useful to share methods that we use
15:01:39 [agarrison]
eric - sharing methods would be good
15:02:04 [agarrison]
mike - we have been focusing on the public domain, but would be willing to share internal methods
15:02:07 [dboudreau]
Sorry, i need to run to another meeting that started 2 minutes ago… have a great day all, sorry to leave so abruptly
15:02:13 [ericvelleman]
15:02:15 [Zakim]
15:02:20 [shadi]
q- mi
15:02:25 [shadi]
ack ne
15:02:34 [agarrison]
elle - more templated method the better
15:02:37 [agarrison]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:02:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate agarrison
15:02:51 [Mike_Elledge]
Bye everyone!
15:02:54 [kerstin]
15:02:57 [sinarmaya]
bye, thanks :)
15:02:57 [Zakim]
15:02:58 [Zakim]
15:02:58 [Zakim]
- +1.502.632.aacc
15:03:00 [Vincent]
15:03:01 [agarrison]
no problem
15:03:01 [AmyChen]
thanks everyone, bye!
15:03:02 [Zakim]
15:03:05 [Zakim]
15:03:07 [sinarmaya]
sinarmaya has left #eval
15:03:09 [SarahSwierenga]
15:03:15 [Zakim]
15:03:17 [Zakim]
15:03:19 [Zakim]
15:03:21 [Zakim]
15:03:22 [Zakim]
15:03:33 [Zakim]
15:03:35 [Zakim]
15:03:42 [Zakim]
15:03:45 [Zakim]
15:03:45 [ericvelleman]
ericvelleman has left #eval
15:03:47 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has ended
15:03:49 [Zakim]
Attendees were Kathy, +90700021aaaa, shadi, sinarmaya, Sarah, AmyChen, dboudreau, Kerstin, Eric, Liz, [IPcaller], +1.514.487.aabb, +1.502.632.aacc, Vincent, agarrison, Tim_Boland,
15:03:53 [Zakim]
... Mike, vivienne
15:04:45 [dboudreau]
dboudreau has left #eval
15:05:09 [shadi]
trackbot, end meeting
15:05:09 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
15:05:09 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
15:05:10 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:05:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
15:05:11 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
15:05:11 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items