19:57:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webperf
19:57:04 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/10/19-webperf-irc
19:57:16 <plh> trackbot-ng, start telcon
19:57:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:57:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WPWG
19:57:21 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see RWC_web-per(WPWG)4:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
19:57:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Performance Working Group Teleconference
19:57:22 <trackbot> Date: 19 October 2011
19:58:23 <JatinderMann> JatinderMann has joined #webperf
19:58:32 <JatinderMann> trackbot, start teleconf
19:58:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:58:37 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WPWG
19:58:37 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see RWC_web-per(WPWG)4:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
19:58:38 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Performance Working Group Teleconference
19:58:38 <trackbot> Date: 19 October 2011
19:59:37 <Zakim> RWC_web-per(WPWG)4:00PM has now started
19:59:37 <Zakim> +Plh
20:01:32 <Zakim> + +1.650.253.aaaa
20:01:33 <Zakim> - +1.650.253.aaaa
20:01:33 <Zakim> + +1.650.253.aaaa
20:01:51 <Zakim> + +43.664.853.aabb
20:01:52 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
20:02:21 <Alois> Alois has joined #webperf
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20:02:32 <JatinderMann> present+ Jatinder
20:02:36 <JatinderMann> present+ Arvind
20:02:41 <JatinderMann> present+ Alois
20:02:46 <JatinderMann> present+ Philippe
20:03:07 <Zakim> + +1.650.214.aacc
20:03:28 <JatinderMann> present+ JamesS
20:03:44 <Zakim> + +44.207.881.aadd
20:04:07 <JatinderMann> present+ TonyG
20:04:28 <Zakim> +??P5
20:04:40 <JatinderMann> Arvind: FYI, Andriod has started to implement NavigationTiming.
20:05:19 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: IE9 on Mango also supports Navigation Timing.
20:07:55 <JatinderMann> Topic: Timing Spec Updates
20:08:28 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: I have gone ahead and made spec updates to comply with ACTION-52, 53, and 54. Please go ahead and review the changes.
20:09:12 <JatinderMann> ... I have also updated test_timing_xserver_redirect.html to change the document.location.host to documentation.location.hostname. This fixes the issues on all browsers. Please do review.
20:09:37 <JatinderMann> Topic: Resource Timing Security/Privacy Review
20:10:43 <JatinderMann> Tony: The discussion with the public-web-security mailing list is given here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-security/2011Oct/0019.html
20:17:55 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: Based on cache hits and misses, malicious entities can determine with strong certainty when a resource is from a third party site. Based on our currenty third party restrictions, we don't give any additional information than what can already be determined today.
20:19:50 <zhihengw> zhihengw has joined #webperf
20:20:59 <JatinderMann> Tony: The mailing list brought up concerns about XSS. Though, once you have XSS on your page, all bets are off.
20:21:46 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: IE9 has a XSS filter that blocks XSS on sites. Other UAs may have this, which will mitigate this concern.
20:22:08 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: What about the opt-out option mentioned in the mailing list? Is this something we should consider?
20:33:42 <plh> "User agents must not send location information to Web sites without the express permission of the user."
20:33:46 <plh> http://www.w3.org/TR/geolocation-API/#security
20:34:16 <JatinderMann> James: If we are to draw a line on the opt-out option, we should let user's opt-out of all of web timing, not just the third party restrictions.
20:37:24 <JatinderMann> Karen: I would prefer if we allowed user's to just turn on the third-party restrictions, not all of web timing.
20:37:44 <JatinderMann> Zhiheng: I agree to not allow turn off all web timings.
20:50:19 <Zakim> - +1.650.214.aacc
20:50:20 <Zakim> -Plh
20:50:20 <Zakim> - +1.650.253.aaaa
20:50:21 <Zakim> - +44.207.881.aadd
20:50:21 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
20:50:23 <Zakim> -??P5
20:50:28 <Zakim> - +43.664.853.aabb
20:50:29 <Zakim> RWC_web-per(WPWG)4:00PM has ended
20:50:31 <Zakim> Attendees were Plh, +1.650.253.aaaa, +43.664.853.aabb, [Microsoft], +1.650.214.aacc, +44.207.881.aadd
20:59:20 <Zakim> RWC_web-per(WPWG)4:00PM has now started
20:59:21 <Zakim> +Plh
20:59:30 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: Considering when you visit a site that site already has this information. That site can sell this information to third-parties. To mitigate such a risk, sites use a privacy policy to tell users they aren't selling this information. Seems like when a site uses the http header to give this information to third parties is not much different. Privacy policies should stop sites from using the header. I don't think there is a difference.
20:59:37 <JatinderMann> Arvind: I think we all agree to keep the spec as is.
20:59:58 <JatinderMann> Tony: The spec should include this discussion and our mitigation to make this clear to readers.
21:00:11 <JatinderMann> ACTION Jatinder to update Resource Timing security/privacy section.
21:00:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-55 - Update Resource Timing security/privacy section. [on Jatinder Mann - due 2011-10-26].
21:00:21 <JatinderMann> Zhihend: Per my action item, looks like the HTML5 references are good. But I am still in process of finishing this.
21:00:42 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: We should target to have this data for TPAC. That will be a good data point in this discussion.
21:00:51 <JatinderMann> present+ Karen
21:01:35 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
21:03:22 <JatinderMann> Plh: There are two tests that Firefox is failing on. We should figure out whether there is a test case bug or if it is a Firefox bug.
21:03:40 <JatinderMann> Karen: Yes, I was hoping we can discuss. Boris and I have a discussion on the mailing list. 
21:04:54 <JatinderMann> Karen: We may want to re-evaluate the header. I will follow up with the IE Security team.
21:05:05 <JatinderMann> Topic: Page Visibility Test Cases and Specs
21:06:28 <Zakim> + +1.650.253.aaaa
21:11:23 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: With the spec updates I've made, we have closed on many of the spec questions Boris brought up. The remaining issue was whether Page Visibilty should change state on navigate away.
21:11:41 <JatinderMann> Arvind: I think the spec should be updated to make it clear that on navigate away, Visibility shouldn't be changed.
21:13:56 <JatinderMann> Karen: Also, in the unload cancel case, the Visibility may be hidden for a moment, even though the Page has always been visible.
21:19:55 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: I will see if we can update the spec to make this point clear.
21:21:06 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: Please review the Page Visibility test cases. Once we are happy with the changes, I can move the tests to the approved directory.
21:21:22 <JatinderMann> ... Also, should we keep the prefixes in the test cases or test what the spec says?
21:21:41 <JatinderMann> plh: We can keep the prefixes in the test cases for now. When we go to CR, we need to remove them so we are testing the spec.
21:21:45 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: Agreed.
21:23:59 <Zakim> -Plh
21:24:00 <Zakim> - +1.650.253.aaaa
21:24:00 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
21:24:01 <Zakim> RWC_web-per(WPWG)4:00PM has ended
21:24:03 <Zakim> Attendees were Plh, [Microsoft], +1.650.253.aaaa
21:25:55 <JatinderMann> Karen: When you go to http://w3c-test.org/webperf/tests/approved/navigation-timing/html5/test_document_open.html, I get a 404 message stating "timing/resources/blank_page_yellow.htm was not found on this server."
21:26:10 <JatinderMann> rrsagent, generate minutes
21:26:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/19-webperf-minutes.html JatinderMann
21:37:30 <JatinderMann> rrsagent, generate minutes
21:37:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/19-webperf-minutes.html JatinderMann