IRC log of tagmem on 2011-10-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:00:21 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #tagmem

17:00:21 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/10/06-tagmem-irc

17:00:38 [Zakim]

+Ashok_Malhotra

17:00:59 [Yves]

trackbot, start telcon

17:01:01 [noah]

noah has joined #tagmem

17:01:01 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

17:01:03 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be TAG

17:01:03 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot, I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM already started

17:01:04 [trackbot]

Meeting: Technical Architecture Group Teleconference

17:01:04 [trackbot]

Date: 06 October 2011

17:01:14 [Zakim]

+??P12

17:01:19 [Zakim]

+Noah_Mendelsohn

17:01:22 [Zakim]

+Yves

17:01:27 [Yves]

Scribe: Yves

17:01:31 [noah]

zakim, noah_mendelsohn is me

17:01:32 [Zakim]

+noah; got it

17:02:55 [noah]

zakim, who is here?

17:02:55 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Masinter, DKA, Jonathan_Rees, Ashok_Malhotra, JeniT, noah, Yves

17:02:57 [Zakim]

On IRC I see noah, RRSAgent, Zakim, Ashok, JeniT, jar, DKA, Larry, timbl, plinss, trackbot, Yves

17:03:47 [Yves]

Regrest for next week: Jeni

17:04:02 [Yves]

next scribe: Larry

17:04:10 [Yves]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Oct/0007.html

17:04:19 [Yves]

Topic: approval of minutes

17:04:23 [jar]

Corrections for Wednesday

17:04:23 [jar]

Topic need "y" ("discovery")

17:04:23 [jar]

Change "of" to "therefore"" after "proposition"

17:04:23 [jar]

"expect ion" should be "expectation"

17:04:24 [jar]

misspelling "prirotize"

17:04:44 [Yves]

approval of f2f minutes, last week we got some correction requests

17:05:10 [Larry]

i'm willing to let them go ;)

17:05:22 [jar]

one other: "will be out-competed" said by Harry Halpin, not me

17:06:09 [Yves]

RESOLUTION: minutes approved, subject to editorial changes (see above)

17:06:27 [JeniT]

s/Regrest/Regrets/

17:06:28 [noah]

RESOLUTION: minutes of the Edinburgh 13-15 Sept F2F approved, subject to editorial changes (see above)

17:06:47 [Yves]

last week minutes: any comments?

17:06:59 [Yves]

Ashok: some typos but ok

17:07:31 [Yves]

RESOLUTION: minutes of last week telcon approved

17:07:57 [Yves]

Topic: TPAC

17:08:33 [DKA]

that's fine

17:08:39 [Yves]

TPAC is coming up, any preference for morning or afternoon for TAG meeting?

17:08:45 [Yves]

(monday and friday)

17:08:50 [Yves]

no preference, so up to the chair

17:09:18 [Ashok]

I will be at TPAC ... I was not on your list from last week

17:09:19 [Yves]

Note also that the HTML/XML TF is moving forward

17:10:21 [Yves]

Topic: TPAC Planning

17:11:06 [Yves]

Preparation for the upcoming TAG election. It will be discussed during TPAC

17:11:45 [Larry]

As long as Ian and Jeff are discussing waht they want th e TAG to do, I'm happy

17:11:56 [Yves]

Larry proposed that the dinner slot could lead to something more substantive, but it might be a busy time, so we might suggest a BoF

17:12:53 [noah]

YL: I did check with SPDY folks, on answer yet

17:13:57 [Yves]

=> due date bumped by one week

17:14:01 [noah]

ACTION-615 Due 2011-10-13

17:14:01 [trackbot]

ACTION-615 Check on possible meeting with SPDY folks on 31 Oct at TPAC due date now 2011-10-13

17:14:57 [noah]

DKA: Deep linking breakout is confirmed.

17:14:58 [Yves]

DKA: I expect that rigo will join us for the session on friday, will confirm as soon that I know

17:15:01 [jar]

q?

17:15:20 [Yves]

noah: is the breakout confirmed or not yet?

17:15:23 [Yves]

DKA: yes

17:16:00 [jar]

q+ jar to volunteer cc attorney

17:16:11 [noah]

ack next

17:16:12 [Zakim]

jar, you wanted to volunteer cc attorney

17:16:49 [Yves]

jar: it might be possible that one cc attorney could be interested by this breakout session

17:17:02 [Larry]

we can invite experts? or schedule a break-out session ?

17:17:43 [Larry]

maybe we could propose breakouts on specific TAG topics, like copyright, early normalization

17:18:22 [DKA]

http://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2011/SessionIdeas#Publishing_and_Linking_on_the_Web

17:18:25 [Larry]

q+ to ask about proposing breakouts

17:18:36 [noah]

ack next

17:18:37 [Zakim]

Larry, you wanted to ask about proposing breakouts

17:19:26 [Yves]

Larry: I wonder about poposing breakouts on other topics, like on html, privacy etc... it this a way of engaging communities?

17:21:16 [Larry]

specifically about topics that the TAG has discussed, since we have something substantitve to start with

17:21:34 [Yves]

DKA: from the wiki page, it's an open space process, there are 28 slots then an lection process

17:22:12 [JeniT]

There are already a couple of breakout proposals on privacy already

17:23:17 [Yves]

DKA: proposal can be merged if they are similar. I don't think there will be more than the 28 available slots

17:23:20 [Larry]

well, "permanance", "versioning", things TAG has discussed and that TAG members there one or more of us could lead a discussion about

17:24:21 [Yves]

DKA: for deep linking, it might be better to invite people we want to talk with for a specific session, and keep the breakout to reach other people

17:25:17 [Yves]

Noah: if TAG members want to propose sessions... but don't overcommit by having conflicts between sessions

17:25:29 [Larry]

I'd especially want to look for things where community input might give us some direction on what we should do

17:25:52 [Larry]

hmm, like on MIME and the Web, MIME types, sniffing, etc.

17:27:24 [Yves]

Topic: Web Application Architecture: Javascript vs. REST APIs for

17:27:26 [Yves]

client-side resources

17:27:34 [noah]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Sep/0002.html

17:29:20 [Zakim]

+plinss

17:30:46 [noah]

"Does the TAG have any additional advice or suggestions on the WebIDL/Javascript versus HTTP/REST architectural approach,"

17:31:17 [Ashok]

q+

17:31:51 [Yves]

there were discussions on js api being too biased for that or not

17:31:56 [noah]

"noted some potential issues, including lack of adequate support for publish-subscribe paradigm, issues related to caching, issues related to appropriate URI definition for local resources, and the potential cost of indirection [5]."

17:32:04 [Larry]

The main thing I'd look for is an architecture where the distinction between local and network resources is orthogonal to the interface for the data

17:32:11 [noah]

ack next

17:32:16 [Larry]

Ashok and I were talking about this for client storage vs. cching

17:32:52 [Yves]

Ashok: js will be lots faster than doing REST stuff in accessing the camera.

17:32:53 [Larry]

This is an interesting point for calendars, for example, where you might have a local calandar or a network calander

17:32:58 [Larry]

q+ to talk about what i typed

17:33:25 [Yves]

jar: they might use the slower approach if things are not provided natively by the js access (like security or privacy)

17:34:22 [jar]

q+ jar The TAG *already* did something about this - it published webarch. http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#pr-use-uris

17:34:33 [Larry]

it's really orthogonal

17:34:34 [noah]

ack next

17:34:35 [Zakim]

Larry, you wanted to talk about what i typed

17:34:37 [Yves]

noah: it depends on the kind of optimizations you want to do

17:35:22 [noah]

q+ to talk about URIs that work everywhere

17:35:32 [Yves]

larry: there are things like data storage, local or remote, cache etc... it was a good idea to have the interface independent of the fact that storage is local or remote

17:35:53 [noah]

ack next

17:35:53 [Yves]

you want the data interface to be the same, regardless of how the data is accessed (locally or not)

17:35:54 [Zakim]

noah, you wanted to talk about URIs that work everywhere

17:36:12 [Larry]

there's a data interface and an administrative interface

17:36:13 [noah]

ack next

17:36:21 [Yves]

jar: the webarch doc already says that things should be identified by URIs

17:36:26 [Larry]

i think webarch isn't enough, it's not only "identify" it's "access in the same manner"

17:37:20 [Yves]

noah: it is one side of the trade off, on one hand we have identification, but there is also performance.

17:38:07 [Yves]

file://">file:// uris are different than http:// uris, as file:// is localhost, so there is a need to identify the local camera, but do I want to use a local URI or a global one?

17:38:32 [noah]

q?

17:39:20 [Yves]

noah: do you want to propose to discuss with some people during TPAC?

17:39:32 [noah]

s/some people/the DAP working group/

17:43:07 [noah]

ACTION: Noah to contact Fred Hirsch to suggest joint TAG/DAP meeting at TPAC on REST vs. Javascript APIs

17:43:08 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-616 - Contact Fred Hirsch to suggest joint TAG/DAP meeting at TPAC on REST vs. Javascript APIs [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2011-10-13].

17:43:09 [noah]

q?

17:43:10 [Larry]

i think we could invite Frederick to talk to us even not at TPAC?

17:45:02 [Yves]

Noah: the proposed response is to say that there might be indeed some arch question, and we should discuss at TPAC

17:45:13 [Yves]

s/question/questions/

17:46:30 [noah]

ACTION-613?

17:46:30 [trackbot]

ACTION-613 -- Daniel Appelquist to organize deep linking breakout at TPAC -- due 2011-10-06 -- OPEN

17:46:30 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/613

17:46:44 [noah]

close ACTION-613

17:46:44 [trackbot]

ACTION-613 Organize deep linking breakout at TPAC closed

17:47:01 [noah]

ACTION-593?

17:47:01 [trackbot]

ACTION-593 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule discussion of JavaScript vs. REST Client APIs [self-assigned] -- due 2011-10-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW

17:47:01 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/593

17:47:06 [noah]

close ACTION-593

17:47:06 [trackbot]

ACTION-593 Schedule discussion of JavaScript vs. REST Client APIs [self-assigned] closed

17:47:17 [noah]

ACTION-514?

17:47:17 [trackbot]

ACTION-514 -- Daniel Appelquist to draft finding on API minimization -- due 2011-10-11 -- OPEN

17:47:17 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/514

17:48:13 [Yves]

Topic: Fragment ID Semantics and MIME Types

17:48:14 [noah]

ACTION-509?

17:48:14 [trackbot]

ACTION-509 -- Jonathan Rees to communicate with RDFa WG regarding documenting the fragid / media type issue -- due 2011-09-15 -- PENDINGREVIEW

17:48:14 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/509

17:48:53 [noah]

Jonathan's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Sep/0014.html

17:49:54 [Yves]

jar: Henry is the only one to have spoken on this, so we should work on it together

17:50:24 [jar]

I said "or Jeni", scribe didn't get it...

17:51:29 [Yves]

jar: not sure how urgent it is (wrt RDFa's LC comments)

17:51:39 [Yves]

but it would be a "nice to have"

17:52:33 [jar]

rdfa wants to advance the draft ASAP... but they have been saying that for several months... I think they are stalled on something else. so there is no specific deadline, just "please soon or else you won't be able to give input"

17:53:02 [JeniT]

this relates to the fragids and mime types draft which Henry and Peter are (I think) working on

17:53:31 [Yves]

Noah: do you prefer to go over email, or schedue telcon time when Henry is there?

17:53:34 [Yves]

jar: telcon

17:53:43 [Yves]

s/schedue/schedule

17:54:03 [Yves]

noah: let's plan that for next week

17:54:06 [Yves]

Topic: Privacy

17:55:14 [noah]

ACTION-608?

17:55:14 [trackbot]

ACTION-608 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule telcon discussion of TAG goals on privacy -- due 2011-10-04 -- PENDINGREVIEW

17:55:14 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/608

17:55:21 [noah]

That one came from F2F overflow

17:55:25 [noah]

ACTION-583?

17:55:25 [trackbot]

ACTION-583 -- Ashok Malhotra to (with help from Dan) organize TAG review of proposed W3C charter on tracking protection (privacy) Due 2011-07-26 -- due 2011-08-30 -- OPEN

17:55:25 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/583

17:55:41 [noah]

ACTION-566?

17:55:41 [trackbot]

ACTION-566 -- Daniel Appelquist to contact Alissa Cooper, organize a future joint discussion on privacy with IAB. -- due 2011-07-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW

17:55:41 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/566

17:55:57 [noah]

close ACTION-608?

17:56:30 [Yves]

Ashok: the WG started, so let's close my action

17:56:34 [noah]

AM: Working group started, no need for charter review

17:56:34 [noah]

close ACTION-583

17:56:35 [trackbot]

ACTION-583 (with help from Dan) organize TAG review of proposed W3C charter on tracking protection (privacy) Due 2011-07-26 closed

17:56:35 [JeniT]

http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/charter.html

17:57:15 [noah]

ACTION-566 Due 2011-10-11

17:57:15 [trackbot]

ACTION-566 Contact Alissa Cooper, organize a future joint discussion on privacy with IAB. due date now 2011-10-11

17:57:31 [Ashok]

q+

17:58:25 [Yves]

ashok: is there anything else we should be doing?

17:58:33 [noah]

ack next

18:00:59 [Ashok]

s/doing/doing in the privacy arena/

18:06:31 [noah]

topic: Pending review actions

18:06:32 [noah]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/pendingreview

18:06:45 [Yves]

509, just discussed

18:07:25 [noah]

ACTION-521?

18:07:25 [trackbot]

ACTION-521 -- Noah Mendelsohn to figure out where we stand with http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-namespaceState-20060329/ on the rec track -- due 2011-08-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW

18:07:25 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/521

18:07:52 [Yves]

long ago, the TAG worked on the following document:

18:07:55 [Yves]

http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-namespaceState-20060329/

18:08:07 [Yves]

short document, ending with good practice

18:09:02 [jar]

no brainer

18:09:12 [Yves]

to summarize, if a ns is defined about some animals, is it ok to add new ones several years later?

18:09:21 [Yves]

should you provision for that in the first spec?

18:10:25 [noah]

Finding: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/namespaceState.html

18:10:27 [Yves]

Note that this is already a finding

18:11:09 [Yves]

if we say it's a only finding, we should close the rec track doc (by publishing a Note?)

18:11:28 [Yves]

the question is "so should it be a full REC or not?"

18:12:14 [Yves]

jar: did that finding had any effect on namespaces that has been defined since then?

18:12:32 [Larry]

this isn't in scope for this discussion, but i wonder about this recommendation having any meaning. You can say wahtever policy you want for the future, but how does that prevent a new rec from overriding an old one anyway?

18:12:55 [Yves]

noah: not that I recall

18:13:28 [Yves]

Yves: not in the spec I tracked

18:13:44 [Yves]

jar: so is publishing this document as a REC will change this?

18:14:54 [JeniT]

webarch already has the good practice "An XML format specification SHOULD include information about change policies for XML namespaces." http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#pr-doc-ns-policy

18:15:06 [jar]

"Specifications that define namespaces SHOULD explicitly state their policy with respect to changes in the names defined in that namespace."

18:17:06 [Larry]

I think this is in the space of extensibility policies

18:17:08 [plinss]

rec

18:17:11 [Larry]

no rec

18:17:12 [JeniT]

no rec

18:17:13 [DKA]

no rec

18:17:15 [noah]

no rec

18:17:18 [Ashok]

no rec

18:17:24 [Yves]

no rec

18:18:13 [Larry]

i'd want to see something mroe generally on extensibility, rather than narrowly on XML namespaces

18:18:18 [Yves]

peter: REC has more weight than findings, so I'd like to see TAG publishing more RECs

18:18:47 [Larry]

I'm reacting to the "things W3C should stop doing" google+ thread which included XML

18:19:59 [noah]

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-namespaceState-20060329/ will be taken off the REC track. This does not settle the question of whether the TAG should put more emphasis on RECs in general.

18:20:26 [noah]

RESOLUTION: http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-namespaceState-20060329/ will be taken off the REC track. This does not settle the question of whether the TAG should put more emphasis on RECs in general.

18:21:05 [noah]

close ACTION-521

18:21:05 [trackbot]

ACTION-521 Figure out where we stand with http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-namespaceState-20060329/ on the rec track closed

18:21:28 [noah]

ACTION Noah to work with Yves to take http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-namespaceState-20060329/ off the Rec track Due 2011-11-15

18:21:28 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-617 - Work with Yves to take http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-namespaceState-20060329/ off the Rec track Due 2011-11-15 [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2011-10-13].

18:21:44 [noah]

ACTION-537?

18:21:44 [trackbot]

ACTION-537 -- Daniel Appelquist to reach out to Web apps chair to solicit help on framing architecture (incluing terminology, good practice) relating to interaction -- due 2011-07-15 -- PENDINGREVIEW

18:21:44 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/537

18:26:47 [Yves]

(proposal to close it)

18:26:55 [JeniT]

I agree with Dan

18:27:27 [Yves]

the TAG is putting down work on interactions by closing this action

18:29:01 [noah]

close ACTION-537

18:29:02 [trackbot]

ACTION-537 Reach out to Web apps chair to solicit help on framing architecture (incluing terminology, good practice) relating to interaction closed

18:29:26 [Zakim]

-noah

18:29:27 [jar]

bye

18:29:29 [Zakim]

-DKA

18:29:29 [Yves]

Noah: note that we will have a call next week

18:29:30 [Zakim]

-JeniT

18:29:32 [Zakim]

-Masinter

18:29:33 [Zakim]

-Ashok_Malhotra

18:29:33 [Zakim]

-Yves

18:29:34 [Yves]

ADJOURNED

18:29:34 [Zakim]

-Jonathan_Rees

18:29:48 [Zakim]

-plinss

18:29:50 [Zakim]

TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended

18:29:51 [Zakim]

Attendees were Masinter, DKA, Jonathan_Rees, Ashok_Malhotra, Yves, JeniT, noah, plinss

18:30:17 [noah]

Thank you for scribing Yves

19:00:55 [timbl]

timbl has joined #tagmem

20:01:11 [jar]

jar has joined #tagmem

20:18:33 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #tagmem

21:10:16 [jar]

jar has joined #tagmem

21:35:23 [timbl]

timbl has joined #tagmem