IRC log of html-wg on 2011-09-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:01:39 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-wg
16:01:39 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-html-wg-irc
16:02:08 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
16:02:18 [adrianba]
zakim, [Microsoft] has me
16:02:18 [Zakim]
+adrianba; got it
16:02:19 [Zakim]
+Julian
16:02:22 [dsinger_]
zakim, who is here?
16:02:23 [Zakim]
On the phone I see dsinger (muted), hober, [Microsoft], Julian
16:02:26 [Zakim]
[Microsoft] has adrianba
16:02:28 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, adrianba, mfoladare, Julian, paulc, Zakim, dsinger_, cjones, rubys, MikeSmith, davidb, ed, anne, plh, myakura, hober, nonge__, krijnh, karl, arronei, hiro,
16:02:29 [Julian]
Zakim, mute me
16:02:33 [Zakim]
... jmb, webben, shepazu, Dashiva, pingo, johndrinkwater, gsnedders, Jedi, CIA-1, gavin, pimpbot, [tm], Philip, hsivonen, Hixie, inimino, jgraham
16:02:38 [Zakim]
Julian should now be muted
16:02:40 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, call Mike
16:02:46 [Zakim]
ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
16:02:47 [janina]
janina has joined #html-wg
16:02:50 [Zakim]
+rubys
16:02:52 [Zakim]
+Mike
16:02:54 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.a]
16:03:06 [paulc]
zakim, [Microsoft.a] has paulc
16:03:06 [Zakim]
+paulc; got it
16:03:10 [adrianba]
ScribeNick: adrianba
16:03:15 [adrianba]
Scribe: Adrian Bateman
16:03:19 [adrianba]
Chair: Sam Ruby
16:03:22 [adrianba]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2011JulSep/0023.html
16:03:24 [pimpbot]
Title: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2011-09-29: Issue progress, Task Force reports from Sam Ruby on 2011-09-27 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from July to September 2011) (at lists.w3.org)
16:03:26 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly
16:03:28 [Zakim]
+??P29
16:03:29 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
16:03:30 [paulc]
I am having trouble with my outbound audio.
16:03:36 [janina]
zakim, ??P29 is Janina
16:03:36 [Zakim]
+Janina; got it
16:03:45 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.850.aaaa
16:03:55 [adrianba]
TOPIC: ACTION items due by Thursday, September 29
16:04:02 [adrianba]
rubys: there are none
16:04:08 [adrianba]
TOPIC: New Issues This Week
16:04:15 [adrianba]
ISSUE-177?
16:04:36 [krisk]
krisk has joined #html-wg
16:04:52 [adrianba]
ISSUE-178?
16:04:57 [adrianba]
ISSUE-179?
16:05:19 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Items Closed Last Week
16:05:36 [adrianba]
rubys: ISSUE-166 was closed by amicable resolution
16:05:46 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Items Closing This Week
16:05:58 [adrianba]
rubys: there are none
16:06:00 [JF]
JF has joined #html-wg
16:06:05 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Items Closing Next Week
16:06:36 [Zakim]
+Radhika_Roy
16:06:55 [adrianba]
rubys: ISSUE-170 - change proposals due oct 8
16:07:12 [adrianba]
... ISSUE-171 - microdata-rdf also due oct 8
16:07:28 [adrianba]
... ISSUE-173 - split-appcache - also due Oct 8
16:07:31 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly
16:07:39 [adrianba]
... plenty of time on these but see that we have no change proposal on any of these yet
16:07:47 [adrianba]
TOPIC: New Calls this week
16:08:06 [adrianba]
rubys: ISSUE-177 - ietf-id-wip - call for proposals closes oct 28
16:08:19 [adrianba]
...ISSUE-178 - uri-scheme-notation, also closes oct 28
16:08:34 [adrianba]
...ISSUE-179 - av_param, also closes oct 28
16:08:42 [MikeSmith]
q+ for Any Other Other Business -- a11y TF request about canvas bugs from Rich, plus Video bug from John Foliot
16:09:14 [adrianba]
TOPIC: New Surveys this week
16:09:18 [adrianba]
rubys: none
16:09:26 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Decisions this week
16:09:32 [adrianba]
rubys: none
16:09:48 [adrianba]
TOPIC: testing task force
16:09:49 [krisk]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2011Sep/0016.html
16:09:50 [pimpbot]
Title: RE: HTML Testing Task Force Conf Call Agenda 9/20/2011 from Kris Krueger on 2011-09-29 (public-html-testsuite@w3.org from September 2011) (at lists.w3.org)
16:09:56 [JF]
JF has left #html-wg
16:09:57 [adrianba]
krisk: met as planned on 20th
16:10:07 [adrianba]
... getElementsByClassName tests moved into WebApps WG
16:10:21 [adrianba]
...group agreed that should convert canvas test cases to use test harness
16:10:38 [adrianba]
... questions about appcache or offline and the format we should use for tests
16:10:51 [adrianba]
... no reason not to go with self describing so we'll go with that for now
16:11:04 [adrianba]
... following up with plh about test suite license
16:11:21 [adrianba]
... because of concern about how parser tests submitted with the dat format could be reused
16:11:30 [adrianba]
... discussion about tpac and webapps
16:11:49 [adrianba]
... people attending and considering a backend for websockets at w3c
16:11:52 [dsinger_]
Zakim, who is noisy?
16:12:05 [Zakim]
dsinger_, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: [Microsoft] (44%), rubys (39%)
16:12:06 [adrianba]
... note the first meeting scheduled in november will not be on the 1st because of tpac
16:12:15 [adrianba]
... schedule is on the wiki
16:12:17 [adrianba]
... that's it
16:13:02 [Zakim]
-dsinger
16:13:09 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Accessibility Task Force
16:13:19 [pimpbot]
bugmail: [Bug 13943] <track> The "bad cue" handling is stricter than it should be <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1128.html> 4** [Bug 11893] define lexical processing rules for ARIA attributes <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1127.html> 4** [Bug 11892] explicitly state that ARIA states and properties are formal/normative HTML attributes <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/pub
16:13:27 [adrianba]
janina: think mike has some specifics that we want to elevate from the tf meeting
16:13:37 [adrianba]
...work proceeds
16:13:40 [MikeSmith]
ack MikeSmith
16:13:40 [Zakim]
MikeSmith, you wanted to discuss Any Other Other Business -- a11y TF request about canvas bugs from Rich, plus Video bug from John Foliot
16:13:42 [Zakim]
+dsinger
16:13:59 [Zakim]
- +1.206.850.aaaa
16:14:08 [MikeSmith]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13176
16:14:08 [adrianba]
mikesmith: we've been talking for the last couple of weeks about a couple of canvas bugs
16:14:09 [pimpbot]
1113176: schwer, P1, REOPENED, 13The bounds of canvas fallback content, as rendered on the canvas, are not provided by the user agent to an assistive technology.
16:14:15 [adrianba]
... rich has been dealing with these
16:14:23 [MikeSmith]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13181
16:14:25 [pimpbot]
1113181: schwer, P1, NEW, 13Canvas does not allow mouse events to be directed to keyboard accessible objects in fallback content
16:14:44 [adrianba]
... the point we're at with these is that we're waiting for a response from hixie on both of these
16:15:04 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.850.aabb
16:15:05 [adrianba]
... noted in comments posted by sam in one of these bugs that we have an agreement for 30 day turnaround for p1 bugs
16:15:22 [adrianba]
... they are already p1 bugs so can't elevate further
16:15:34 [adrianba]
... nobody wants to escalate these without feedback from hixie
16:15:54 [adrianba]
... last comment from hixie on 181 was more than a month ago, asking for a web page to demo the problem
16:16:01 [adrianba]
... 176 has kind of been in the same state
16:16:10 [adrianba]
... rich has added some comments
16:16:36 [adrianba]
... we'd like to hear from the chairs whether there is any way the chairs could directly ask hixie to respond to these in the next week or so, that seems like one way to handle this
16:16:49 [adrianba]
... if you have suggestions for what to do that would be great
16:17:05 [adrianba]
janina: looks like mozilla wants to implement this support by the end of the year in firefox
16:17:22 [adrianba]
mikesmith: yeah, that's what rich said this morning, that this is on their feature schedule
16:17:29 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #html-wg
16:17:42 [adrianba]
... about mouse events and keyboard directed objects
16:17:58 [adrianba]
... like to hear back from the chairs on what we can do together on this
16:18:12 [rubys]
action rubys ping hixie on status of P1 bugs
16:18:20 [adrianba]
... realise we could raise an issue but rich would rather not do that yet
16:18:27 [Zakim]
-dsinger
16:18:29 [adrianba]
rubys: i'll take an action to look at that
16:18:34 [MikeSmith]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13432
16:18:36 [pimpbot]
1113432: jfoliot, P2, NEW, 13Editorial changes to The Video element (1 of 5)
16:18:41 [adrianba]
mikesmith: one other issue to look at
16:18:43 [Zakim]
+dsinger
16:18:54 [adrianba]
... john wanted to bring this issue to the attention of the chairs
16:19:09 [adrianba]
... sort of about an editorial change - at least john feels like this is an important change
16:19:17 [adrianba]
... he asked me to mention this on the call today
16:19:24 [adrianba]
... that's it on the tf call
16:19:35 [adrianba]
rubys: that bug has been open for 2 months, currently not a p1 bug
16:20:00 [adrianba]
mikesmith: given that it isn't p1 i could ask john whether he wants to consider whether priority should be raised
16:20:17 [adrianba]
... other than that, i don't know - not really sure what the key point of contention is on this
16:20:32 [adrianba]
... seems like john is looking for one non-normative sentence added
16:20:43 [adrianba]
... i'll take the action to go back to john on it
16:20:45 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-204 - Ping hixie on status of P1 bugs [on Sam Ruby - due 2011-10-06].
16:21:05 [adrianba]
janina: this came at the end of the call - not sure what he thinks precisely
16:21:17 [adrianba]
... think he was suggesting it was out of hand in some way
16:21:25 [adrianba]
mikesmith: i'll read through and talk to john
16:21:46 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Other Business
16:21:59 [adrianba]
rubys: Anything people want to bring up?
16:22:01 [adrianba]
q?
16:22:12 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Scribe for next meeting
16:22:17 [adrianba]
rubys: volunteers?
16:22:33 [adrianba]
rubys: ted volunteers - thank you
16:22:34 [Zakim]
-Mike
16:22:36 [Zakim]
-Radhika_Roy
16:22:37 [paulc]
Thanks Sam
16:22:38 [Zakim]
- +1.206.850.aabb
16:22:39 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Adjournment
16:22:42 [Zakim]
-rubys
16:22:43 [Zakim]
-Janina
16:22:43 [Zakim]
-dsinger
16:22:43 [Zakim]
-Julian
16:22:44 [janina]
janina has left #html-wg
16:22:45 [adrianba]
rubys: with that we're adjourned
16:22:52 [Zakim]
-hober
16:23:04 [adrianba]
Present+ krisk
16:23:10 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
16:23:14 [adrianba]
zakim, bye
16:23:14 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were dsinger, hober, adrianba, Julian, rubys, Mike, [Microsoft], paulc, Cynthia_Shelly, Janina, +1.206.850.aaaa, Radhika_Roy,
16:23:14 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #html-wg
16:23:17 [Zakim]
... +1.206.850.aabb
16:23:23 [adrianba]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:23:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-html-wg-minutes.html adrianba
16:23:24 [rubys]
rubys has left #html-wg
16:23:31 [adrianba]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:24:59 [adrianba]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:31:02 [adrianba]
adrianba has left #html-wg
16:51:46 [miketaylr]
miketaylr has joined #html-wg
16:56:55 [Lachy]
Lachy has joined #html-wg
16:57:04 [pimpbot]
planet: Anne van Kesteren: WHATWG Weekly: Mutation Observers, and oh, XBL is dead! <11http://blog.whatwg.org/weekly-xbl-observers>
16:57:21 [arronei_]
arronei_ has joined #html-wg
17:15:24 [pimpbot]
bugmail: [Bug 14333] New: how to support visual studio 2010 <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1129.html> 4** [Bug 14333] how to support visual studio 2010 <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1130.html>
17:57:19 [pimpbot]
planet: Anne van Kesteren: First W3C Recommendation <11http://annevankesteren.nl/2011/09/ironic>
18:06:27 [mjs]
mjs has joined #html-wg
18:17:39 [pimpbot]
bugmail: [Bug 14335] New: how to use html5 <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1132.html> 4** [Bug 14335] how to use html5 <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1133.html> 4** [Bug 14334] New: how to use html5 <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1131.html> 4** [Bug 14334] how to use html5 <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/201
18:39:08 [miketaylr]
miketaylr has joined #html-wg
18:45:25 [CIA-1]
html-spec: 03ianh@340c8d12-0b0e-0410-8428-c7bf67bfef74 * c36a8ad5f6bf r6597 10/ (complete.html index source): [e] (0) typo
19:01:38 [pimpbot]
changes: hixie: typo (whatwg r6598) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2011Sep/0081.html>
19:07:02 [hober]
hober has joined #html-wg
19:23:06 [pimpbot]
pimpbot has joined #html-wg
19:25:16 [pimpbot]
bugmail: [Bug 12651] More things should set salvageable to false: XHR, plugins <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1135.html>
19:26:19 [[tm]]
[tm] has joined #html-wg
20:36:14 [mjs]
mjs has joined #html-wg
20:41:33 [karl]
karl has joined #html-wg
20:57:54 [pimpbot]
bugmail: [Bug 13034] Consider [TreatNullAs=EmptyString] for some reflected attributes <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1138.html> 4** [Bug 13174] Allow block elements inside TH, maybe add new THCAPTION element <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1137.html> 4** [Bug 12596] <video> Explicitly state that preload=none fires a suspend event <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-h
21:15:31 [CIA-1]
html-spec: 03ianh@340c8d12-0b0e-0410-8428-c7bf67bfef74 * 677be59a7184 r6598 10/ (complete.html index source):
21:15:31 [CIA-1]
html-spec: [giow] (0) Event handler IDL attribute compatibility WebIDL fix.
21:15:31 [CIA-1]
html-spec: Fixing http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13433
21:15:32 [pimpbot]
1113433: contributor, P3, NEW, 13Event handler IDL attributes need [TreatNonCallableAsNull]
21:16:08 [MikeSmith_]
MikeSmith_ has joined #html-wg
21:28:31 [pimpbot]
bugmail: [Bug 13502] Text run starting with composing character should be valid <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1142.html> 4** [Bug 13174] Allow block elements inside TH, maybe add new THCAPTION element <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1141.html> 4** [Bug 13433] Event handler IDL attributes need [TreatNonCallableAsNull] <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla
21:33:51 [pimpbot]
changes: SSE; hixie: Event handler IDL attribute compatibility WebIDL fix. (whatwg r6599) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2011Sep/0086.html> 4** workers; hixie: Event handler IDL attribute compatibility WebIDL fix. (whatwg r6599) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2011Sep/0085.html> 4** websocket; hixie: Event handler IDL attribute compatibility WebIDL fix. (whatwg r6599) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archive
22:00:15 [pimpbot]
bugmail: [Bug 13201] Flow content should be allowed in <dt> <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1144.html> 4** [Bug 13769] Whitespace-only values should be considered empty in required form fields <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1143.html>
22:23:02 [rubys]
rubys has joined #html-wg
22:23:52 [rubys]
hixie: ping?
22:30:35 [pimpbot]
bugmail: [Bug 12544] <video> MEDIA CONTROLLER requires track kind for in-band tracks <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1148.html> 4** [Bug 14336] New: buttfuck, i mean seriously buttfuck <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1147.html> 4** [Bug 8645] Alt text for images <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1146.html> 4** [Bug 13034] Consider [TreatNul
22:34:07 [pimpbot]
changes: hixie: Legacy IDL attribute compatibility WebIDL fix. (whatwg r6600) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2011Sep/0087.html>
22:39:35 [hober]
hober has joined #html-wg
22:44:11 [homata]
homata has joined #html-wg
22:47:36 [CIA-1]
html-spec: 03ianh@340c8d12-0b0e-0410-8428-c7bf67bfef74 * a8e49e493cd2 r6599 10/ (complete.html index source):
22:47:36 [CIA-1]
html-spec: [giow] (0) Legacy IDL attribute compatibility WebIDL fix.
22:47:36 [CIA-1]
html-spec: Fixing http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13034
22:47:51 [pimpbot]
Title: Bug 13034 Consider [TreatNullAs=EmptyString] for some reflected attributes (at www.w3.org)
22:55:34 [mjs_]
mjs_ has joined #html-wg
23:00:58 [pimpbot]
planet: Jay Patel: Congrats to our August Dev Derby winners! <11http://hacks.mozilla.org/2011/09/congrats-to-our-august-dev-derby-winners/>
23:02:36 [rubys]
hixie: can you resolve http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13176 and http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13181 this week?
23:02:41 [rubys]
rubys has left #html-wg
23:02:51 [pimpbot]
1113181: schwer, P1, NEW, 13Canvas does not allow mouse events to be directed to keyboard accessible objects in fallback content
23:03:37 [pimpbot]
bugmail: [Bug 13034] Consider [TreatNullAs=EmptyString] for some reflected attributes <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1149.html>
23:34:47 [pimpbot]
bugmail: [Bug 13176] The bounds of canvas fallback content, as rendered on the canvas, are not provided by the user agent to an assistive technology. <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1152.html> 4** [Bug 13181] Canvas does not allow mouse events to be directed to keyboard accessible objects in fallback content <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Sep/1151.html> 4** [Bug 14336] buttfuck, i