IRC log of sparql on 2011-09-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:57:40 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:57:40 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/27-sparql-irc
13:57:49 [AndyS]
zakim, this is SPARQL
13:57:49 [Zakim]
AndyS, I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be SPARQL".
13:57:56 [AndyS]
zakim, this will be SPARQL
13:57:56 [Zakim]
ok, AndyS; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:58:13 [LeeF]
trackbot, start meeting
13:58:15 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:58:17 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 77277
13:58:17 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:58:18 [trackbot]
Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:58:18 [trackbot]
Date: 27 September 2011
13:58:27 [LeeF]
zakim, this will be SPARQL
13:58:27 [Zakim]
ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:58:45 [swh]
swh has joined #sparql
13:58:54 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
13:59:01 [Zakim]
+??P3
13:59:05 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P3 is me
13:59:05 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
13:59:10 [Zakim]
+ +1.310.729.aaaa
13:59:16 [kasei]
Zakim, aaaa is me
13:59:16 [Zakim]
+kasei; got it
13:59:49 [mperry]
mperry has joined #sparql
13:59:56 [Zakim]
+??P7
14:00:01 [cbuilara]
zakim, ??P7 is me
14:00:01 [Zakim]
+cbuilara; got it
14:00:02 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.553.aabb
14:00:07 [LeeF]
zakim, aabb is me
14:00:07 [Zakim]
+LeeF; got it
14:00:12 [LeeF]
Chair: LeeF
14:00:14 [Zakim]
+Bert
14:00:16 [LeeF]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-09-27
14:00:35 [Zakim]
+ +1.603.897.aacc
14:00:46 [LeeF]
zakim, Bert is Olivier
14:00:46 [Zakim]
+Olivier; got it
14:00:47 [mperry]
zakim, aacc is me
14:00:48 [Zakim]
+mperry; got it
14:00:52 [LeeF]
zakim, who's on the phone?
14:00:52 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AndyS, kasei, cbuilara, LeeF, Olivier, mperry
14:01:25 [LeeF]
Scribenick: cbuilara
14:02:26 [cbuilara]
zakim, mute me
14:02:26 [Zakim]
cbuilara should now be muted
14:02:29 [LeeF]
topic: Admin
14:02:39 [LeeF]
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-09-20
14:03:13 [Zakim]
+pgearon
14:03:23 [LeeF]
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-09-20
14:03:23 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #sparql
14:03:27 [chimezie]
chimezie has joined #sparql
14:03:36 [LeeF]
Next regular meeting: 2011-10-04 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Sandro? )
14:04:10 [Zakim]
+ +1.216.368.aadd
14:04:11 [cbuilara]
LeeF: Andy, anything from RDF-WG?
14:04:21 [chimezie]
Zakim, 1.216.368.aadd is me
14:04:22 [Zakim]
sorry, chimezie, I do not recognize a party named '1.216.368.aadd'
14:04:29 [cbuilara]
AndyS: no, nothing new
14:04:30 [chimezie]
Zakim, +1.216.368.aadd is me
14:04:30 [Zakim]
+chimezie; got it
14:04:57 [cbuilara]
AndyS: in the next f2f meeting probably push the job
14:05:02 [LeeF]
topic: publication status
14:05:10 [cbuilara]
LeeF: Protocol status
14:05:12 [chimezie]
Zakim, mute me
14:05:12 [Zakim]
chimezie should now be muted
14:05:21 [LeeF]
AxelPolleres, any news on overview document?
14:05:53 [AxelPolleres]
no news on overview, hope to find an evening this week where I can finish it.
14:05:58 [cbuilara]
LeeF: Fed query, still trying to finish issues from Greg, anything resolved?
14:05:59 [cbuilara]
+q
14:06:07 [LeeF]
ack cbuilara
14:06:07 [cbuilara]
zakim, unmute me
14:06:12 [Zakim]
cbuilara was not muted, cbuilara
14:06:31 [LeeF]
cbuilara: remaining issue is the comment from Axel - I will check that in today
14:06:37 [LeeF]
... fed query document is OK after that
14:07:12 [cbuilara]
LeeF: I'm not sure if everything is fixed
14:07:21 [cbuilara]
s/LeeF/kasei
14:07:33 [cbuilara]
kasei: I will have a look at the document
14:07:39 [cbuilara]
zakim, mute me
14:07:40 [Zakim]
cbuilara should now be muted
14:08:02 [cbuilara]
LeeF: my main concern is that people is communicating
14:08:22 [LeeF]
ACTION-514?
14:08:22 [trackbot]
ACTION-514 -- Axel Polleres to look at Greg's review of federated query -- due 2011-08-16 -- OPEN
14:08:22 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/514
14:08:35 [cbuilara]
LeeF: Greg to look at the document and review it
14:08:48 [LeeF]
topic: String functions
14:09:06 [LeeF]
Comment from Jeen: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Aug/0001.html
14:10:49 [pgearon]
+q
14:10:52 [LeeF]
ack pgearon
14:11:03 [pgearon]
sorry, having trouble with mute
14:11:35 [cbuilara]
pgearon: I don't have a strong feeling on the hash functions, but the common ones
14:11:43 [LeeF]
LeeF: 3 questions: 1) right set of string functions? 2) string functions are 1-indexed 3) set of hash functions
14:11:54 [cbuilara]
pgearon: I never run to use the other hash functions
14:12:10 [cbuilara]
pgearon: I do not have any particular use case
14:12:48 [cbuilara]
LeeF: there wasn't strong objections to include all funcions
14:13:21 [cbuilara]
LeeF: anyone objected to have all hash functons?
14:13:58 [Zakim]
+Sandro
14:14:34 [LeeF]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-12-07
14:14:42 [cbuilara]
LeeF: minutes of the hash functions
14:15:13 [pgearon]
my original position was that we should do all possible functions. This was not based on a perceived need for them all, but because I thought it was cheap to do.
14:15:55 [pgearon]
Steve's comment indicates that it isn't so easy (I have not had an opportunity to implement these myself).
14:16:24 [LeeF]
q?
14:16:39 [swh]
Decent implementations of the more obscure ones are hard to come by, but it's not the end of the world
14:16:45 [cbuilara]
LeeF: it seems a why not add them all attitude? any more opinions on that?
14:17:03 [AndyS]
q+
14:17:35 [LeeF]
ack AndyS
14:18:40 [cbuilara]
LeeF: we do not have a protocol document document, we can update the last call for hash functions without being a bit problem
14:18:55 [cbuilara]
AndyS: it could be possible a second last call?
14:18:57 [LeeF]
AxelPolleres, does RIF use the 1-indexed string functions?
14:19:52 [LeeF]
q?
14:20:15 [pgearon]
LeeF: RIF does use 1 based indexing
14:20:24 [LeeF]
LeeF: if we trimmed the SHA functions, which ones would we include?
14:20:30 [LeeF]
AndyS: SHA1 and SHA256 I think?
14:20:35 [cbuilara]
AndyS: I do not have experience of people using SHA2
14:21:31 [cbuilara]
LeeF: if anybody is ok to remove SHA2, say it
14:23:18 [cbuilara]
LeeF: get somebody to select the right hash functions
14:23:20 [AndyS]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA-1#SHA-1
14:23:28 [LeeF]
ACTION: Sandro to ask W3C security experts about popular / useful hash functions
14:23:28 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-536 - Ask W3C security experts about popular / useful hash functions [on Sandro Hawke - due 2011-10-04].
14:24:27 [LeeF]
LeeF: We seem to have consensus on removingsome less comomn hash functions. We'll revisit this with a concrete resolution pending expert input on which ones to keep.
14:24:29 [pgearon]
+q
14:24:33 [LeeF]
ack pgearon
14:25:25 [LeeF]
pgearon: perhaps include a note in the document reminding people about function extensibility
14:26:13 [Zakim]
+ +1.781.899.aaee
14:26:24 [Zakim]
-Sandro
14:27:24 [cbuilara]
LeeF: my inclination would be to keep it in the way it is
14:27:27 [LeeF]
subtopic: 1-indexed strings
14:27:29 [mperry]
I am for 1-based strings
14:27:31 [pgearon]
+q
14:27:36 [LeeF]
ack pgearon
14:27:39 [cbuilara]
LeeF: what people think?
14:28:01 [cbuilara]
pgearon: I'm happy with 1-based string
14:28:31 [cbuilara]
AndyS: I'm neutral
14:28:41 [cbuilara]
Andy: about the hash functions
14:28:55 [cbuilara]
AndyS: we do not have any operation that return indexes
14:29:28 [cbuilara]
AndyS: it is probably a mistake that we did not get it
14:29:57 [pgearon]
I'm looking at RIF right now, and it doesn't have a string search
14:30:44 [AndyS]
http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#string-functions
14:31:24 [pgearon]
RIF probably doesn't need it, since with logic programming you can just put a variable in for func:substring and it will fill in the value of the variable for you
14:31:53 [cbuilara]
LeeF: why didn't xpath operations does not include index operations
14:32:15 [cbuilara]
Sandro: we can ask, xquery may have some similar operations to that
14:34:14 [cbuilara]
LeeF: Jeen is asking what criteria does the grup have about the string functions
14:35:13 [LeeF]
LeeF: Seems to be consensus to keep 1-indexed strings in string functions (as per XML F&O and RIF)
14:35:44 [cbuilara]
LeeF: question about set of functions
14:36:05 [AndyS]
fn:substring-before and fn:substring-after go someway to help - they produce strings
14:37:04 [AxelPolleres]
In RIF the criterion was basically scanning the ones in http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#string-functions and taking those on board which we thought would be reasonable for that group's purposes (not much more, we definitly didn't think of other functions except those from Xpath/Xquery for strings)
14:38:14 [chimezie]
for what its worth
14:38:34 [chimezie]
i write XPath often without the need for explicit index returning functions (using substring-before and after, etc.)
14:40:15 [chimezie]
Zakim, unmute me
14:40:15 [Zakim]
chimezie should no longer be muted
14:40:33 [cbuilara]
Sandro: I will send a quick note to the xpath working group asking for comments about string functions
14:42:00 [cbuilara]
LeeF: betterto include substring before and after, anubody disagrees?
14:42:07 [LeeF]
LeeF: If we're already doing a 2nd last call, we probably ought to include substring-before and substring-after
14:42:09 [cbuilara]
s/betterto /better to
14:42:27 [cbuilara]
s/anubody/anybody
14:42:29 [sandro]
s/working group/staff contact/
14:42:42 [chimezie]
Zakim, mute me
14:42:42 [Zakim]
chimezie should now be muted
14:42:51 [LeeF]
for next week's agenda: PROPOSED: Include substring-before and substring-after as SPARQL 1.1 Query functions
14:43:11 [AxelPolleres]
Naive proposal would be to propose to expand to those functions we miss from RIF's string functions, particularly substring-before/after ... would that do? (at least we would be cohherent between RIF and SPARQL then) on a quick look, we miss substring-before., substring-after, string-join, replace,
14:44:00 [LeeF]
topic: implementation report
14:45:00 [kasei]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/
14:45:03 [cbuilara]
kasei: the output from that code in the cvs, one line per test, generates a quick summay
14:45:20 [cbuilara]
s/summay/summary
14:45:44 [chimezie]
i can begin to produce EARL
14:45:46 [cbuilara]
LeeF: people should start producing reports
14:45:51 [chimezie]
Zakim, unmute me
14:45:51 [Zakim]
chimezie should no longer be muted
14:48:52 [cbuilara]
kasei: some of the tests files in CVS are available with no login into the W3C
14:49:35 [kasei]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/functions/
14:50:01 [kasei]
the file notin01.rq should appear in that directory listing, but doesn't.
14:51:32 [cbuilara]
Sandro: still searching for the problem
14:53:20 [cbuilara]
LeeF: chimezie summarize entailment
14:53:33 [AndyS]
SJ = Simon Johnstone
14:54:43 [Zakim]
-chimezie
14:54:44 [AndyS]
FWIW -- Fuseki sniffs the filename on multifile load -- browsers don't set content type
14:54:51 [cbuilara]
s/entailment/protocol comments
14:55:09 [sandro]
q+ re permissions
14:55:12 [cbuilara]
s/entailment/protocol comments/
14:55:46 [LeeF]
ack sandro
14:55:46 [Zakim]
sandro, you wanted to discuss permissions
14:56:54 [AndyS]
ADJOURNED
14:56:56 [AndyS]
Bye all!
14:56:58 [mperry]
bye
14:57:06 [Zakim]
-AndyS
14:57:14 [Zakim]
-mperry
14:57:28 [Zakim]
-Olivier
14:58:06 [cbuilara]
Sandro: there may be a problem with the CVS server, I will try to refresh
15:00:31 [AndyS]
if anyone (any two) people could confirm responses DM-1 and DB-11, I'd be most grateful.
15:00:55 [AndyS]
pgearon - there are some shared query/update responses to draft.
15:01:35 [pgearon]
OK. Just realized last night I have one for David Booth that I'm behind on
15:04:24 [sandro]
notin01.rq : ➔ Gregory Williams (gwilliam) can admin
15:04:24 [sandro]
Team access can admin
15:06:50 [Zakim]
-LeeF
15:06:51 [Zakim]
-kasei
15:06:53 [Zakim]
- +1.781.899.aaee
15:06:55 [Zakim]
-pgearon
15:07:07 [Zakim]
-cbuilara
15:07:08 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
15:07:10 [Zakim]
Attendees were AndyS, +1.310.729.aaaa, kasei, cbuilara, +1.617.553.aabb, LeeF, +1.603.897.aacc, Olivier, mperry, pgearon, chimezie, Sandro, +1.781.899.aaee