IRC log of rdf-wg on 2011-09-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:57:52 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
14:57:52 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-rdf-wg-irc
14:57:54 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:57:54 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
14:57:56 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 73394
14:57:56 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:57 [trackbot]
Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:57:57 [trackbot]
Date: 21 September 2011
14:58:24 [Zakim]
SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
14:58:31 [Zakim]
+AZ
14:58:39 [Zakim]
+bhyland
14:58:55 [davidwood]
Zakim, bhyland is me
14:58:55 [Zakim]
+davidwood; got it
14:59:23 [Zakim]
+gavinc
15:00:18 [Zakim]
+??P14
15:00:43 [Arnaud]
Arnaud has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:08 [Zakim]
+Scott_Bauer
15:01:31 [gavinc]
zakim, who is talking
15:01:31 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is talking', gavinc
15:01:46 [davidwood]
Zakim, +P14 is Arnaud
15:01:46 [Zakim]
sorry, davidwood, I do not recognize a party named '+P14'
15:01:57 [davidwood]
Zakim, P14 is Arnaud
15:01:57 [Zakim]
sorry, davidwood, I do not recognize a party named 'P14'
15:02:12 [pchampin]
pchampin has joined #rdf-wg
15:02:15 [gavinc]
zakim, ??P14 is Arnaud
15:02:15 [Zakim]
+Arnaud; got it
15:02:58 [Zakim]
+??P22
15:03:05 [pchampin]
+??P22 is me
15:03:17 [Zakim]
+??P25
15:03:26 [pchampin]
zakim, ??P22 is me
15:03:26 [Zakim]
+pchampin; got it
15:03:29 [mischat]
Zakim, ??P25 is me
15:03:29 [Zakim]
+mischat; got it
15:03:32 [pchampin]
zakim, mute me
15:03:32 [Zakim]
pchampin should now be muted
15:04:18 [cygri]
zakim, what's the code?
15:04:18 [Zakim]
the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), cygri
15:04:30 [Zakim]
+mhausenblas
15:04:35 [cygri]
zakim, mhausenblas is me
15:04:35 [Zakim]
+cygri; got it
15:04:58 [AZ]
topic: Admin
15:05:17 [zwu2]
zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg
15:05:22 [davidwood]
Proposed to accept http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-09-14
15:05:24 [zwu2]
zakim, code?
15:05:24 [Zakim]
the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2
15:05:38 [AZ]
PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of the 14 Sep telecon
15:05:58 [Zakim]
+zwu2
15:06:03 [AZ]
davidwood: The meeting was adjourned before the minutes were issued
15:06:06 [zwu2]
zakim, mute me
15:06:06 [Zakim]
zwu2 should now be muted
15:06:10 [mischat]
the minutes do state where the telecon adjourned
15:06:43 [AZ]
davidwood: we'll close Guus action
15:07:32 [Zakim]
+LeeF
15:07:33 [AZ]
cygri : will do my action later today
15:08:07 [AZ]
topic: FTF planning
15:08:17 [ericP]
davidwood, Guus, i'm on a nother call. RDF WG has dibs so you can ping "ericP" in irc and I'll switch focus
15:08:23 [mischat]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F2
15:09:24 [AZ]
davidwood: talks on hotels difficult to find
15:10:09 [AZ]
davidwood: we'll have the F2F split in 2 places (EU and US)
15:11:02 [mischat]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F2#Agenda
15:11:08 [cygri]
q+
15:11:25 [AZ]
davidwood: we have to figure out 2 things,
15:11:36 [AZ]
...: manage the timezones
15:12:04 [AZ]
...: when London ajourn, we use the time left in Boston to do useful things
15:12:25 [Zakim]
-LeeF
15:12:32 [davidwood]
ack cygri
15:12:33 [AZ]
...: we make progress on the RDF primer
15:12:55 [AZ]
cygri: I was surprised by the strong titles in the agenda
15:13:21 [AZ]
... I wasn't expecting the two would work apart
15:13:37 [gavinc]
Issue seems to be that far more people will be in London then in Boston :\
15:13:40 [AZ]
... ther eare advantages in doing that, more stuff gets done,
15:13:51 [AZ]
.... but advantages having shared time
15:14:07 [AZ]
... we should maximise shared time
15:14:36 [pchampin]
+1 to try to align schedule as much as possible
15:14:37 [AZ]
davidwood: I hope we can get in MIT earlier
15:14:47 [mischat]
cygri: i agree too, but iirc yvesr_ and NickH mentioned that there was end time to when we had to get out of their buildings
15:14:52 [gavinc]
there are 5 solid confirmations in Boston, and 11 in London
15:15:06 [AZ]
... and we can't be in BBC late
15:15:14 [LeeF]
I'm sorry that my phone has decided to act up, but I wanted to say that I'm not sure that a group editing of the primer will be a good way to edit the primer. I think we might be more successful identifying goals for the updated primer and then enlisting 1 or 2 editors to do the actual updating.
15:15:31 [AZ]
... the current agenda is (sort of) a worst case scenario
15:15:58 [AZ]
cygri: currently, we'll adjourn in London at 5pm
15:16:04 [Zakim]
+LeeF
15:16:04 [mischat]
cygri++
15:16:13 [AZ]
... we could shift everything 2 hours backward
15:16:45 [davidwood]
Yves Raimond
15:16:47 [davidwood]
(BBC)
15:17:01 [mischat]
davidwood: to email yvesr_ about how late we can stay at the BBC's london location
15:17:13 [AZ]
ACTION: david to mail Yves if we can get to BBC later
15:17:13 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-90 - Mail Yves if we can get to BBC later [on David Wood - due 2011-09-28].
15:17:20 [mischat]
davidwood: LeeF had a point above
15:17:23 [LeeF]
q+
15:17:30 [cygri]
q+
15:17:31 [davidwood]
ack LeeF
15:17:36 [mischat]
s/davidwood:/davidwood,/
15:18:20 [AZ]
LeeF: we should get consensus on what to put in Primer then assign writing to 2 people
15:18:42 [Zakim]
-LeeF
15:18:52 [mischat]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Editors
15:18:57 [mischat]
editors doc ^^
15:19:20 [Zakim]
+LeeF
15:19:22 [AZ]
davidwood: with neither editors of Primer on the call we can't really decide how to proceed wrt Primer
15:19:49 [LeeF]
Great! (i was just confused by what it said in the agenda)
15:19:54 [davidwood]
ack cygri
15:19:58 [AZ]
...: we will just suggest updates for Primer at the Boston meeting
15:20:24 [AZ]
cygri: we should spend time on the documents the WG has to update and produce
15:20:54 [davidwood]
Changed agenda wording for the RDF Primer task
15:21:01 [AZ]
... a number of documents have not yet been touch in terms of editing
15:21:16 [LeeF]
I will attend at MIT - I didn't realize I wasn't already on the list. Sorry!
15:21:40 [AZ]
... it's not clear what's going to happen wrt the JSON document
15:21:58 [AZ]
... we should discuss the JSON doc at the meeting
15:22:14 [AZ]
davidwood: there should be someone reviewing the JSON doc
15:22:24 [AZ]
... and present the review to the group on the ML
15:23:03 [AZ]
cygri: there was a decision at the F2F1 that we have 2 documents
15:23:21 [AZ]
... is there still this consensus?
15:23:29 [mischat]
zakim, who is on the call?
15:23:30 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AZ, davidwood, gavinc, Arnaud, Scott_Bauer, pchampin (muted), mischat, cygri, zwu2 (muted), LeeF
15:23:41 [Zakim]
+OpenLink_Software
15:23:49 [MacTed]
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:23:49 [Zakim]
+MacTed; got it
15:23:51 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
15:23:51 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
15:24:41 [AZ]
davidwood: we have 2 actions to do for the F2F:
15:24:54 [AZ]
... 1. whether BC can be accessible late and;
15:25:03 [AZ]
... 2. review JSON LD
15:25:04 [MacTed]
s/BC/BBC/
15:25:40 [davidwood]
TO DO for the Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F2#Agenda
15:25:45 [mischat]
i was wrong about a json-ld review, I was thinking of all the json-ld related chat on the mailing list that is all
15:26:05 [AZ]
davidwood: I'll update the agenda accordingly
15:26:20 [AZ]
topic: Liaison with Provenance WG
15:26:32 [AZ]
davidwood: there was a telecon last Thursday
15:26:47 [AZ]
... there is a mailing list for RDF / Prov liaison
15:27:00 [AZ]
public-rdf-prov@lists.w3.org
15:27:10 [mischat]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-prov/
15:27:22 [AZ]
... anyone interested in Graph TF should take a look and join the discussions
15:27:26 [mischat]
and the minutes to the meeting last week http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-09-15
15:28:06 [AZ]
... the Prov WG make good progress but it's not clear exactly there use cases
15:28:30 [davidwood]
Discussed http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs-UC
15:28:59 [AZ]
... we (RDF WG) have a provenance use case
15:29:01 [mischat]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs-UC#Provenance_Use_Cases
15:29:12 [AZ]
s/a provenance use case/provenance use cases/
15:29:38 [AZ]
... we need an agreement on the g-* terminology
15:29:48 [mischat]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Graph_Terminology
15:29:53 [AZ]
... it must be fixed after the F2F2
15:29:55 [mischat]
g-box
15:30:35 [AZ]
... the Prov WG is waiting for our final terminology
15:30:41 [Arnaud]
got it, thanks
15:30:42 [AZ]
... and they need their final use cases
15:31:04 [davidwood]
q?
15:31:45 [AZ]
topic: Status RDF Dataset proposal
15:32:31 [AZ]
davidwood: Richard, can you answer Sandro's criticism wrt the Dataset proposal?
15:33:05 [davidwood]
Sandro's criticism: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-09-14#RDF_Dataset_proposal
15:33:06 [AZ]
... in the minutes of the last meeting
15:33:51 [AZ]
cygri: the proposal is not based on use cases, but based on SPARQL specs
15:34:20 [AZ]
... these concepts are already implemented in SPARQL graph stores
15:34:31 [AZ]
... this addresses a lot of use cases
15:34:50 [AZ]
... but it's worth looking at it in more details
15:35:15 [AZ]
... we have to define what cannot be addressed by the proposal
15:35:52 [AZ]
... People who think it is not sufficient should point out which use cases are not addressed
15:37:15 [pchampin]
q+ to ask a question to Richard about the dataset proposal
15:37:18 [AZ]
... I still think that the proposal is enough for all use cases
15:38:21 [AZ]
davidwood: we are not sure the prov use case we have are use cases for the Prov WG (?)
15:38:23 [mischat]
q?
15:39:19 [AZ]
... we need Sandro to discuss his criticism and he's not here
15:39:47 [pchampin]
+1 to Richard
15:39:51 [AZ]
cygri: versioning is related somehow to provenance too
15:39:54 [davidwood]
q?
15:39:57 [pchampin]
ack me
15:39:59 [Zakim]
pchampin, you wanted to ask a question to Richard about the dataset proposal
15:40:02 [davidwood]
ack pchampin
15:40:05 [cygri]
ACTION: cygri to respond to Sandro's trust use case
15:40:06 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-91 - Respond to Sandro's trust use case [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2011-09-28].
15:40:45 [AZ]
Pierre-Antoine: in the dataset proposal, things are very specific to queries
15:40:54 [AZ]
... eg, default graph
15:41:25 [AZ]
... should'nt we clear the proposal from this focus (which comes from SPARQL)
15:41:38 [MacTed]
Zakim, who's noisy?
15:41:47 [AZ]
cygri: true, default graph comes from SPARQL and may not be necessary
15:41:49 [Zakim]
MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: gavinc (14%), cygri (61%)
15:42:17 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute gavinc
15:42:17 [Zakim]
gavinc should now be muted
15:42:21 [MacTed]
Zakim, unmute gavinc
15:42:21 [Zakim]
gavinc should no longer be muted
15:42:25 [AZ]
... it's still open to discussion whether to keep it
15:42:47 [AZ]
... but it's good to take what SPARQL has and make as little changes as possible
15:43:42 [AZ]
... if we diverge from SPARQL, we should have a good explanation for it
15:44:38 [AZ]
pchampin: I agree but some things in the Dataset proposal seem strange from RDF pov
15:45:04 [gavinc]
The strange thing to me is that there can't be more then one ;)
15:45:16 [AZ]
cygri: pchampin, if something seems weird, please find a cocnrete example to explain the reason
15:45:21 [davidwood]
q?
15:45:22 [AZ]
pchampin: I'll do that
15:46:15 [AZ]
davidwood: we may not be able to address the tagged literals issue
15:46:27 [davidwood]
mailto:public-rdf-prov@w3.org
15:46:33 [AZ]
... everyone, please discuss the F2F agenda,
15:46:36 [davidwood]
^^ Please join if you are interested in graphs
15:46:45 [MacTed]
what's the link/address by which to join?
15:47:00 [AZ]
... and join the Prov / RDF ML if intereted in graphs
15:47:06 [gavinc]
public-rdf-prov-request@w3.org SUBSCRIBE
15:47:07 [mischat]
Subject: subscribe public-rdf-prov-request@w3.org
15:47:18 [gavinc]
NOT the mailing list address
15:47:19 [zwu2]
q+
15:47:27 [MacTed]
-request is key! we don't want 17 "subscribe" messages going to the list...
15:47:29 [cygri]
q+ to mention R2RML last call
15:47:32 [zwu2]
zakim, unmute me
15:47:32 [Zakim]
zwu2 should no longer be muted
15:47:44 [davidwood]
ack zwu
15:48:18 [MacTed]
mailto:public-rdf-prov-request@w3.org?subject=SUBSCRIBE
15:48:20 [MacTed]
that will work
15:48:33 [AZ]
zwu2: is it possible to change the schedule a bit to have more overlapping time
15:48:40 [davidwood]
ack cygri
15:48:40 [Zakim]
cygri, you wanted to mention R2RML last call
15:48:53 [cygri]
http://www.w3.org/TR/r2rml/
15:48:57 [cygri]
http://www.w3.org/TR/rdb-direct-mapping/
15:49:01 [AZ]
cygri: RDB2RDF has turned their docs to last call
15:49:44 [AZ]
... we invite comments, especially open questions,
15:50:10 [AZ]
... 1. whether the mapping language require a specific syntax or should it be just a vocabulary
15:50:51 [AZ]
... 2. how to get to specific parts of URIs
15:51:55 [AZ]
... There are also issues related to Turtle etc wrt punctuation
15:52:19 [davidwood]
q?
15:52:43 [AZ]
davidwood: we'll adjourn (early due to lack of participants)
15:53:34 [AZ]
davidwood: cygri, please discuss Sandro's criticism and bring this to the list
15:54:05 [gavinc]
<People/ID-7> rdf:type <People> .
15:55:52 [Zakim]
-zwu2
15:55:54 [Zakim]
-MacTed
15:55:55 [Zakim]
-cygri
15:55:55 [Zakim]
-gavinc
15:55:57 [Zakim]
-davidwood
15:55:57 [Zakim]
-mischat
15:55:59 [Zakim]
-Arnaud
15:56:04 [pchampin]
bye all
15:56:05 [Zakim]
-Scott_Bauer
15:56:20 [davidwood]
RRSAgent, make minutes
15:56:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-rdf-wg-minutes.html davidwood
15:56:24 [mischat]
:)
15:56:28 [Zakim]
-pchampin
15:56:29 [Zakim]
-AZ
15:57:05 [davidwood]
RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
15:57:17 [Zakim]
-LeeF
15:57:18 [Zakim]
SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
15:57:20 [Zakim]
Attendees were AZ, davidwood, gavinc, Scott_Bauer, Arnaud, pchampin, mischat, cygri, zwu2, LeeF, MacTed
16:07:16 [AZ]
argh, the scribe was not specified
16:07:49 [AZ]
the generated minutes are not ok
16:09:23 [mischat]
should do the trick
16:17:15 [danbri]
danbri has joined #rdf-wg
16:18:26 [mischat]
can you not go in and edit the editable logs and add `scribe: XXXX and scribenick: XXX`
16:18:29 [mischat]
AZ: ?
16:28:55 [MacTed]
scribenick: AZ
16:29:01 [MacTed]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:29:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-rdf-wg-minutes.html MacTed
16:29:56 [MacTed]
that may be enough...
16:31:02 [MacTed]
chair: davidwood
16:31:05 [MacTed]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:31:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-rdf-wg-minutes.html MacTed
16:31:47 [MacTed]
RRSAgent, help
16:32:53 [gavinc]
RRSAgent isn't what we use for Minutes BTW
16:33:02 [MacTed]
chair: David Wood
16:33:12 [MacTed]
bah.
16:33:49 [MacTed]
competing systems that do the same thing... I loves them! :-/
16:37:16 [MacTed]
trackbot, end meeting
16:37:16 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
16:37:16 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:37:17 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:37:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot
16:37:18 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
16:37:18 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-rdf-wg-actions.rdf :
16:37:18 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: david to mail Yves if we can get to BBC later [1]
16:37:18 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-rdf-wg-irc#T15-17-13
16:37:18 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: cygri to respond to Sandro's trust use case [2]
16:37:18 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-rdf-wg-irc#T15-40-05