08:04:11 RRSAgent has joined #mlw 08:04:11 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-irc 08:04:18 Zakim has joined #mlw 08:04:29 meeting: MLW workshop 08:04:31 chair: richard 08:04:34 scribe: various 08:04:43 agenda: http://www.multilingualweb.eu/documents/limerick-workshop/limerick-program 08:04:47 rrsagent, make log public 08:05:34 topic: intro 08:07:11 welcome address from Kieran Hodnett 08:07:14 chaals has joined #mlw 08:07:34 present: manyPeople, richard 08:07:34 Jirka has joined #mlw 08:07:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:08:28 present+ mlw 08:08:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:11:56 MarionShaw has joined #mlw 08:13:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:13:29 richard introduces the project and the workshop 08:14:08 SDL_Paul has joined #mlw 08:14:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:14:52 tadej has joined #mlw 08:15:02 richard: many thanks to the sponsors lionbridge and meta-net 08:17:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:20:33 richard: if you create resources (blog entries, fotos, etc.) related to the workshop, please use the tag mlwlim 08:20:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:22:02 DagS_ has joined #mlw 08:23:00 richard describes the setup of the 2nd day: breakout sessions 08:23:02 tadej has joined #mlw 08:23:18 richard: idea is to get more feedback from you on standards and best practices for the mlw 08:23:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:23:43 topic: keynote from Daniel Glazman 08:23:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:24:52 daniel: co-chair of CSS WG. In HTML WG, working on editing software more than 20 years 08:25:25 s/In HTML WG,/In HTML WG; also/ 08:25:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:26:21 quotes from CSS working group (1998): "is it really important to support boustrphedon or mongolian in CSS?" 08:26:40 r12a has joined #mlw 08:27:10 ... "since many countries use characters which are not part of ASCII, the default character-set for modern browsers iso-8859-1" (from w3cschool web site) 08:27:31 daniel: above is totally obsolete 08:27:48 .. top 10 languages on the web. june 2010: English still dominant 08:28:08 .. but most other languages use different scripts, different writing directions etc. 08:28:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:30:40 daniel: technological bits of the mlw: utf-8, MIME, IRIs, Accept-language, HTML$, CSS3, xml:lang, ... 08:30:58 s/HTML$/HTML5/ 08:31:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:32:09 Carrasco has joined #mlw 08:32:53 daniel: what is on the radar today in CSS: 08:33:05 ... screenshot of the business card from richard ishida 08:33:16 ... no vertical text, you should add it ;) 08:33:22 ... card is done with HTML 08:33:43 ... card is great, a good example of what we want to achieve 08:34:53 monica has joined #mlw 08:34:59 ... daniel: HTML5 charset 08:35:08 ... original charset for HTML5 is utf-8 08:35:20 ... authoring tools should use utf-8 only 08:35:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:35:42 mariantonietta has joined #mlw 08:36:30 business card: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/4462733374/ 08:37:01 ... recently got files that were not in utf-8, was quite difficult to handle. Please don't create files anymore that are not utf-8! 08:37:25 daniel: language tagging. There is still xml:lang and lang attribute available. 08:37:43 ... authoring tools rarely set the language or even offer the user interface for it 08:38:59 ... we need only one attribute for language ("lang"), and not xml:lang. Everyone should recognize "lang" 08:39:18 ... links: the hreflang attribute can target only one language 08:39:43 ... if you want to add a link to multiple languages, it is not possible 08:40:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:41:40 ... about direction: not enough input on how to realize that in HTML5, need more input from the various communities 08:41:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:42:12 XSL-FO has already property for this http://www.w3.org/TR/xsl/#writing-mode 08:42:29 daniel: if you want to put data in a text area in multiple writing scripts, it is still not possible 08:42:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:44:40 daniel: forms: date and calendar issues, issues with time zones, "what's a name?", ... 08:44:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:45:00 tadej has joined #mlw 08:48:19 daniel: javascript - poor localization. user interaction entirely based on UA's language and direction 08:49:09 ... Node.js is spreading. you don't write php anymore. If your website is not localizable, we will move all issues to the serverside. It will be a mess 08:50:25 daniel: DOM - charset an issue. 08:50:37 ... PHP has issues 08:51:03 question - what language has good practice for internationalization? 08:51:06 daniel: no 08:51:15 Jirka has joined #mlw 08:51:27 ... for people working on programing languages it is out of scope 08:51:38 ... they say it should be done in the framework 08:52:01 .. there is no wide spread programming language with good i18n / l10n features 08:52:42 daniel: CSS3 writing mode 08:52:53 ... example of japanese vertical text 08:53:11 ... writing mode has to work for all languages and mixtures of directions 08:53:46 r12a has joined #mlw 08:53:50 ... these is one screenshot from the css writing mode spec, containing mongolian. So we are going to do what has been missed in the past 08:53:58 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:54:06 daniel: now css3 text 08:54:26 ... hyphenation is based on dictionaries 08:54:35 ... very complex since it is language dependent 08:54:58 ... in css3 text we have emphasis marks, good for highlighting in asian languages 08:55:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:55:36 daniel: css3 columns 08:55:48 .. being requested by newspapers in the web 08:55:59 .. implemented by many browsers already 08:56:35 ... css3: lists 08:56:54 ... list-style-type property extended to dozens of values 08:57:05 ... ability to define your own is missing 08:57:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 08:57:53 daniel: css3 box model 08:58:00 ... left and right were used all over the place 08:58:58 .... css3 fonts 08:59:32 ... with language specific display, control of glyph substitution and positioning of east asian text 08:59:52 .. ruby in css3: annotation mechanism mostly used for Japanese 08:59:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 09:01:48 daniel: epbu3 another important area with i18n facilities 09:01:56 daniel: conclusion 09:02:39 ... HTML5 plus CSS3 will be the new pivot format for new wysiwyg editors with good i18n 09:02:49 .. massive adoption of epub3 in asia 09:03:07 .. will help the multilinguality on the web 09:03:15 q/a 09:03:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 09:03:37 thomas: how many people know blue griffle? 09:04:46 http://www.glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.php?post/2010/11/12/BlueGriffon-add-ons 09:05:04 daniel: editor that implements a lot of HTML5 / CSS3 features mentioned here 09:05:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 09:27:08 Jirka has joined #mlw 09:27:23 scribe: jirka 09:27:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html Jirka 09:32:54 fsasaki has joined #mlw 09:33:03 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 09:33:28 topic: Developer section 09:33:50 Tadej introduces sessions and speakers 09:34:29 topic: MultilingualWeb-LT: Meta-data interoperability between Web CMS, Localization tools and Language Technologies at the W3C by David Filip 09:36:18 SDL_Paul has joined #mlw 09:36:23 David: explains terminology related to EU projects and l10n 09:37:10 Jirka has joined #mlw 09:37:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 09:37:59 DagS has joined #mlw 09:38:19 ... CSA, W3C, WG, LSP, TM, MT, TMS, CMS, CCMS, OASIS DITA, XLIFF, ... 09:38:38 Carrasco has joined #mlw 09:39:16 lbellido has joined #mlw 09:40:31 ... explains relation between LT-Web and MLW-LT 09:40:59 r12a_ has joined #mlw 09:40:59 ... LT-Web is CSA (Coordination and Support Action) funded by EU 09:41:11 ... LT-Web members will join W3C 09:41:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html Jirka 09:42:29 David: introduces members of MLW-LT 09:44:48 Jirka2 has joined #mlw 09:45:15 ... 3 main scenarios: (1) Deep Web <-> LSP; (2) Surface Web <-> Real Time MT; (3) Deep Web <-> MT Training 09:46:50 ... metadata in question 09:47:29 ... data categories based on ITS (translate, localization note, terminology, langauge) 09:47:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 09:48:12 ... additional categories - translation provenance, human post-editing, QA, legal metadata, topic/domain, ... 09:48:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 09:48:35 s/langauge/language/ 09:48:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 09:49:28 ... input is welcome, work will be open under W3C 09:49:53 ... more input is expected tomorrow during break-out session 09:50:13 topic: The journey of the W3C Internationalization Tag Set - current location and possible itinerary by Christian Lieske 09:50:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 09:50:39 lbellido has joined #mlw 09:51:32 Christian: makes survey - about 1/3 of audience is already aware of ITS 09:53:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 09:53:34 ... ITS is about annotations 09:53:59 ... which part of content has to be translated? 09:54:18 fwolff has joined #mlw 09:54:22 ... does element "x" split run of text into two ling. units? 09:55:34 Christian: shows example of XML and exmplains what kind of additional metadata are needed to support translation and correct processing 09:55:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html Jirka 09:55:52 fwolff has left #mlw 09:56:10 s/Jirka2/Jirka/ 09:56:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html Jirka 09:57:28 ... explains ITS data categories (ed. for more info see http://www.w3.org/TR/its/#datacategory-description) 09:57:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html Jirka 09:58:40 ... ITS is supported in various tools like SDL Studio, XTM, ... 09:59:10 q+ Internationalization Tag Set. Q: How to use ITS in HTML5? It does not support namespaces? Does this lead to a split in approaches? 09:59:25 zakim, q+ Internationalization Tag Set. Q: How to use ITS in HTML5? It does not support namespaces? Does this lead to a split in approaches? 09:59:25 Jirka, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...' 09:59:47 ... support in open-source tools, Okapi framework 09:59:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html Jirka 10:00:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:00:50 ... ITS2XLIFF 10:01:20 r12a has joined #mlw 10:01:24 link to ITS2XLIFF tool: http://fabday.fh-potsdam.de/~sasaki/its/ 10:01:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:02:15 Christian: shows support of ITS in various content formats 10:03:32 ... HTML5 still doesn't support at least translate data category 10:03:55 bug to vote for such support: please vote at http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12417 10:04:09 ... suggested enhancements to ITS 10:04:49 ... targetPointer, idValue, local elementsWithinnText, whitespaces, context, localeSpecificContent, ... 10:04:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:05:58 ... outlook: further usage scenarios in MLW-LT, possibly ITS 2.0 10:06:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:06:40 topic: CSS & i18n: dos and don'ts when styling multilingual Web sites by Gunnar Bittersmann 10:07:37 Gunnar: problem - long words (e.g. in German) 10:08:35 ... possible solutions: cutting, soft hyphens, hyphenation (in future will be implemented in browsers) 10:08:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:09:39 There are JS libraries for client-side hyphenation: http://code.google.com/p/hyphenator/ 10:09:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:10:09 Gunnar: current support for hyphenation in browsers is poor 10:10:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html Jirka 10:14:18 ... problem with layout, when changing directionality 10:14:27 s/problem/problems/ 10:15:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:17:12 ... for RTL language it might be necessary to introduce special rules in CSS 10:17:59 ... tips: not assume that something will fit inside box 10:18:13 ... use text effects appropriate for language 10:18:24 ... flip everything for RTL languages 10:18:34 s/langauges/scripts/ 10:18:46 ... use one stylesheet for all languages 10:19:01 ... use soft-hyphens for long words or use hyphenation 10:19:46 ... CSS3 adds hyphenation, new text emhasis, text-align supports start/end not just left/right 10:19:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html Jirka 10:20:58 tadej has joined #mlw 10:22:33 ... styling by script 10:23:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:23:33 chaals has joined #mlw 10:24:04 topic: Q&A 10:25:11 daniel glazman: Farsi and Arabic use different fonts, you need different CSS rules for them 10:25:32 ... similar for various Cyrillic languages 10:26:29 Felix Sasaki: There is gap on client-side. MLW-LT should close some of these gaps. 10:27:15 tadej has joined #mlw 10:28:14 Gunnar: Support for script styling independent from language could still be useful. 10:28:41 s/client-side/client-side as daniel pointed out/ 10:29:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:30:13 Q: Question about ITS. Should ITS remain small, simple and lean? 10:31:06 Felix: ITS should be kept small and simple. 10:31:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:32:19 Christian: Survey again, now more then 1/3 is aware of ITS 10:32:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html Jirka 10:34:00 chriLi has joined #mlw 10:34:48 Moritz Hellwig from Cocomore 10:35:06 problems with multingual content production in three areas 10:35:10 topic: presentation from cocomore 10:35:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:37:42 Web Site Ellviva as example why multilingual capabilities are needed in CMS like Drupal 10:38:38 Link to legacy system as trouble spot 10:39:13 Complex workflows and image database as additional challenges when it comes to multilinguality 10:39:26 chaals has joined #mlw 10:40:21 A web offering does not just only need to serve multilingual content 10:40:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:41:10 it also needs to be able to offer functionalities related to multilingual content; example: return relevant search results 10:41:50 Integration with translation processes are key for multilingual content on the web 10:42:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:42:13 Sample issue: Terms and terminology 10:42:52 To be specific "marker" that allows to say "treat with particular care" 10:43:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:43:41 Sample issue: lack of domain information (e.g. for adequate Machine Translation) 10:44:31 To be specific: translation of something like "sake" may not be possibe without info on domain 10:45:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:45:34 Domains may be originate in two dimensions: subject area (e.g. financials), or audience (e.g. medical doctor) 10:45:41 glazou has joined #mlw 10:46:03 Sample issue: Translation workflow integration 10:46:30 s/blue griffle/BlueGriffon 10:46:38 s/client-side/client-side, as Daniel Glazman pointed out./ 10:46:47 To be specific: meta data needs to be able to travel from a CMS to a Translation Agency 10:47:29 s/these gaps/these gaps, focusing on simple definitions like "What is translatable content?" provided by ITS/ 10:47:29 XLIFF possibly is a good choice for encapsulating/packaging data 10:47:35 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:48:30 Suggestions for addressing issue in CMS: meta data standard, agreed-on contenxt format like XLIFF 10:48:55 s/contenxt/content/ 10:48:58 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:49:20 MLW-LT holds the promise to take care of the issues 10:50:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:50:51 Customers and Translation Agencies will benefit for improved capabilities in CMS-based Web presences 10:51:51 topic: Danielle Boßlet - Multilinguality on Health Care Websites 10:52:12 Looked at 3 Health Care related Web Sites 10:52:37 Analyzed technical aspects and cultural aspects 10:52:48 Example: www.who.int 10:53:40 Shortcomings: content offering differs between languages 10:54:09 Example: Info in Spanish is not as rich as info in English 10:54:40 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:54:51 English 27 links, Spanish 10 links; Spanish: no info on Cancer Control Programme 10:55:59 Special topic "linked content": in Spanish some link texts not translated, some links lead to English content 10:56:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:56:13 Example: ec.europa.eu 10:57:25 "Technical" shortcomings: none of the 19 links on the Spanish site lead to Spanish content - all lead to English 10:57:59 The reader is kind of deceived: a lot of content seems to be available in Spanish - but in reality it is not 10:58:58 Additional issue: Site Map and A-Z Function only availble for English 10:59:17 Example: German Government Web Site 10:59:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 10:59:34 www.bmg.bund.de 11:00:01 Example: Layout is not consistent across languages 11:00:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 11:00:38 www.bzga.de 11:00:58 Jirka has joined #mlw 11:01:46 chriLi_ has joined #mlw 11:02:00 Example: ... 11:02:29 Good: There is the information that not all info is available in all languages 11:02:39 Summary 11:02:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 11:03:11 User support (e.g. site map) may not be considered to be part of core localization processes 11:04:04 Links need special attention: has translated text, leads to content in user's language, indicates language of linked content 11:04:49 topic: Lise Bissonnette Janody - Balance and Compromise - Issues in Content Localization 11:05:24 Theme: Need to have content strategy up front 11:05:44 Perception of localization for web content 11:06:07 costly, time-consuming, creates complexity, needs special tools 11:06:30 Possibly issues with content strategy: no governance, cost, .. 11:07:01 What is useful, usable content? 11:07:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 11:07:21 appropriate, useful, user-centered, clear, consistent, ... 11:07:56 Useful, usable content does not just happen - it requires efforts in several areas 11:08:29 Set objectives, understand what you have, define a plan 11:08:46 What is useful, usable _localized_ content? 11:09:26 lbellido has joined #mlw 11:09:32 applies to local context, addresses market-specific purpose, users understand it easily, terminology and brand requirements upheld, ... 11:09:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 11:09:52 chaals has joined #mlw 11:10:00 Step 1 towards localized content: set the target 11:11:20 Cultural forces (e.g. language preference), site objectives (e.g. inform), internal forces (e.g. market presence), market forces (e.g. legal and contractual obligations) 11:11:36 r12a has joined #mlw 11:12:01 Possible specific baseline targets: number of languages, IA model, critical mass of localized content for each tier of site 11:12:30 Step 2: Examine what you have 11:13:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 11:13:08 volume of web pages, volume of associated content assets, speed of change, .. 11:13:42 Governance model: centralized or decentralized language version creation 11:14:14 Tools, time and metrics related to your language-related processes 11:14:49 What toolset do you have (e.g. Translation Memory), latency that is acceptable until localized version is available, ... 11:15:05 Step 3: Make smart localization decisions 11:15:42 Example: Do not just try to translate everything. You may keep, chunk, change, ... 11:15:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 11:16:12 Pay particulat attention to what is available locally. 11:17:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 11:17:28 Address localization at level of tiers and locales 11:18:32 chriLi has joined #mlw 11:18:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 11:18:59 Topic: Discussion related to "Creators" Session 11:19:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 11:19:40 Q (for Danielle): Do web site have info on what has been translated? 11:20:11 Q (for Danielle): Can providers of the web sites be easily contacted? 11:20:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 11:20:49 chriLi has joined #mlw 11:20:58 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 11:21:35 Danielle did not get a chance to discuss her findings with the web site providers 11:22:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 11:22:48 Usually, only info is available on the general policy to provide local language versions; it is hard to find out whether specific content really is or will be translated 11:23:41 Comment: Some aspects mentioned (e.g. related to User Assistance) are not just linked to multilingual web sites 11:24:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 11:25:00 Comment: Often, resources are the most challenging dimension for offering multilingual web sites 11:26:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 11:26:55 Q (to everybody): there are many standards available for creating multilingual web sites; to which extend are the standards being applied? 11:27:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 11:27:35 The examples related to links (e.g. translated text) indicated that the standards are not applied too often 11:28:26 A: Many standards are not being applied - yet. There is a time lack. However, as globalization needs increase, more people realize that the standards help to build solutions. 11:28:44 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 11:29:26 A: Standards are being used - however, there are surprises. Example: the WHO web site does not offer language negotiation, a German web site is not encoded in Unicode 11:29:39 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 11:30:41 Comment: Transparent content negotiation (standard from the 1998) would help to solve many issues 11:31:32 Q: How can better implementations of multilinguality be "motivated"? How can we make companies that implement properly rich? 11:32:23 ... and what is the specific role of SEO in that? 12:18:59 tadej has joined #mlw 12:24:54 tadej has joined #mlw 12:31:22 Zakim has left #mlw 12:32:21 lbellido has joined #mlw 12:33:11 tadej has joined #mlw 12:41:20 chaals has joined #mlw 12:42:26 DagS has joined #mlw 12:44:36 fsasaki has joined #mlw 12:44:50 topic: localizers session 12:44:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 12:45:16 christian: speed, volume and cost are important in localiztion 12:45:34 ... all speakers have to say important things about these issues 12:45:45 SDL_Paul has joined #mlw 12:46:02 topic: Presentation from Matthias Heyn (SDL) 12:46:28 Carrrasco has joined #mlw 12:46:37 matthias: content is translated by professional translators, by non-professional, by MT, or untranslated 12:47:01 .. this presentation focuses on content production, related to high quality on the web 12:48:36 .. professional translations can be done in any authoring tool, in MS word + plugin, in dedicated translation editor 12:48:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 12:49:17 matthias: here looking into translation editor 12:49:35 .. these have explicit representation of source and target language, do some segmentation 12:49:43 ... they abstract from formatting information 12:50:42 ... productivity accelerators: at topic level, segment level, subsegment level 12:51:32 .. mechanisms to help here impact on update translations, new translations, redundancies etc. 12:51:47 .. example for topic level: "don't translate if it doesn't change" 12:52:04 ... markup exclusions: use ITS or other convention to lock text 12:52:21 .. or custom arrangements between CMS + translation system 12:52:30 chaals has joined #mlw 12:53:00 r12a has joined #mlw 12:53:02 .. alternative mechanism available under many different names: "perfect matching": go back to previous translation project and see what has not been changed, and look these parts 12:53:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 12:53:53 matthias: increasing level of matching: 100%, fuzzy, context matches, ... 12:54:05 ... cascaded TMs, ranking of TMs 12:54:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 12:54:43 matthais: increasing acceptance of working with (statistical) MT 12:55:42 ... productivity gains depending on SMT engine training, possibility to choose in-domain trained engine 12:55:54 ... and trust stores 12:56:47 ... "trust score": determines whether a proposal is useful or not 12:57:07 .. scope is on document and sentence level 12:58:03 .. automate the "retraining" of MT engines a hot topic 12:58:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 12:59:25 tadej has joined #mlw 12:59:41 ... subsegment level: auto-suggest 13:00:45 .. strategies: display not too many suggestions, avoid noise 13:00:49 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 13:02:20 matthias: relevant and related standards: 13:02:44 ... ITS important on the topic level, XLIFF on the xxx level, something missing for auto-suggest 13:03:01 .. current theme for CAT tools is reviewer productivitiy 13:03:29 Jirka has joined #mlw 13:03:31 .. and how to have information available in the production chain 13:04:18 topic: asanka wasala on "A Micro Crowdsourcing Architecture to Localize Web Content for Less-Resourced Languages" 13:04:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 13:06:33 asanka: focusing on languages that are not yet well represented on the web 13:07:45 demo - a language that has no MT online system for translation available - how to get the content (MT) translated? 13:08:21 asanka: web is no accessible for people who do not understand English 13:08:51 .. English dominant web pages results in loss of business - millions of dollars per year 13:09:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 13:09:34 pjdyda has joined #mlw 13:10:55 asanka: crowed based web content localization can help with the problem 13:11:16 ... idea is simple. Example: you visit a website, right click, and translate it 13:11:53 .. architecture: extension talks to server. Translation goes to server, stores the translation as XLIFF 13:12:22 .. then you get the translated web site from the server 13:12:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 13:13:22 asanka: issues: legal, updated, formatting, translation voting, deployment 13:13:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 13:14:44 asanka: standardization mechanism - different extension mechanisms in browers 13:15:29 ... need standardization of these 13:15:39 ... summary: MLW is not just about top 10 languages 13:15:57 ... even extensions like dictionaries play a crucial role in MLW 13:16:07 s/extensions/small extensions/ 13:16:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 13:17:20 more detailed demo of the system 13:17:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 13:19:42 topic: sukumar munshi (across) on "Interoperability standards in the localization industry – Status today and opportunities for the future" 13:19:44 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 13:22:37 sukumar: interoperability in localization industry 13:23:30 .. many perspectives, data sharing and processing. Definitions from IEEE glossary & wikipedia 13:23:35 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 13:25:04 sukumar: aspects of interoperability: data management, technology usage, business purpose, regulatory aspects 13:25:28 ... and process benefits 13:25:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 13:26:34 sukumar: who cares about interoperability? 13:27:12 .. interop standards are complex in nature 13:27:31 .. issues with file formats are still common 13:28:07 ... some vendors embrace vendors wholeheartly, others make their own "story" out of them 13:29:00 .. interop standards: TMX, ITS 1.0, TBX, SRX, XLIFF, ... 13:29:08 ... success is heterogenous 13:29:19 ... some concepts have become obsolete and integrated in other standards 13:29:33 ... tool support for a single standard varies across tools 13:30:12 .. interop issues in XLIFF: connectivitiy, format, data, metadata, ... 13:30:53 s/in XLIFF/esp. in XLIFF/ 13:31:13 .. important to agree upon: common data set, expected behaviour for that data set 13:31:28 comment from fsasaki: above looks like asking for an XLIFF test suite 13:31:39 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 13:32:14 sukumar: interop standards should improve process efficiency 13:33:03 tadej has joined #mlw 13:33:32 .. examples from other industry, like EDI or HL7 13:33:47 .. have been successful standards for promoting interop 13:34:29 .. example DOCSIS: cable lab pushed the standard forward, making the use of cable modems main stream 13:35:04 .. lack of interop costs a lot of money (NIST study) 13:35:27 .. 1bill usd in automotive for engineering data 13:35:42 .. 5bill usd lost in car supply chain 13:35:54 .. organizations interested in interop in loc industry: 13:36:05 iso tc 37, ETSI, W3C, OASIS, GALA, TAUS 13:36:15 .. EU, Unicode, OMG, SAE, SIG 13:36:21 .. support of gala initiative: 13:36:29 ... many standards are not in sync with requirements 13:36:38 .. lack of promotion of standards 13:37:01 .. gala initiative aims at bringing initiatives related to standards together 13:37:16 .. Arle Lommel's presentation will provide more info about that later 13:38:57 topic: q/a for localizers 13:39:41 Lise: question to asanka - how can we get the extension? 13:40:58 xyz: question for matthias: if you will use ITS - how will you work on attribute level? 13:41:27 lbellido has joined #mlw 13:41:33 matthias: as I understand it, there are rules that make that possible 13:42:14 xyz: to matthias - how would you distinguish domains? 13:42:22 matthias: would use atc codes 13:42:34 ... typically we use level one of these codes 13:42:39 s/we/one/ 13:43:15 arle: asanka said that 10 mill. is lost - is that all? Companies might not care about 10 mill 13:43:30 asanka: there was an article about that, provides more details 13:44:05 sebastian: comment to asanka - there are many extensions - one should make the source code public 13:44:16 .. a question to asanka: what would you do if the web site changes? 13:44:42 asanka: we have a translation memory that takes care of that 13:45:15 xyz: to asanka - if you compare your system to wikibasha from Microsoft research 13:45:25 asanka: don't know about wikibasha 13:45:48 xyz: wikibasha is doing what you are doing, in a cross-browser fashion 13:46:10 olaf: to asanka - will the output of your work be open source? 13:46:15 reinhard: of course! 13:46:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 13:47:50 SDL_IRL has joined #mlw 13:48:36 christian: w3c has compliance mechanisms which are not avail. in other orgs 13:48:50 .. other orgs are offering certification 13:49:00 .. above are two issues to take into account for interop 13:49:21 Scribe: Dags 13:49:28 Topic: Machines 13:49:47 next session is about machines 13:50:32 Topic: Thomas Dohmen from SemLab 13:51:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 13:51:14 Thomas: Semlab does financial and helathcare software 13:51:32 s/helathcare/healthcare 13:52:04 Thomas: flagship product is ViewerPro, samentic analysis platform for news 13:52:55 Thomas: To handle 10,00 messages per day a sw solution is useful to process news as it comes in 13:53:27 Thomas: News processed with sentiment analysis, traders can use information quickly 13:53:36 SDL_Marion has joined #mlw 13:53:59 Thomas: Spinoff is www.newssentiment.eu 13:54:34 blaz has joined #mlw 13:54:54 Thomas: Research, Eu and national funds, research institute collab. Invested 5.8m euro in last decade - a lot for a small company 13:55:32 Thomas: Semantic analysis is versatile, research topics include ontology, lang tech, financial tools and social media 13:56:19 ... Semlab involved in Let's MT, smt system fundd by EU FP7. Focus on small languages, Dutch 13:56:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 13:57:16 ... Hard to find resources, can do topic specific translation 13:57:40 ... Let's MT set up by Tilde, University of Edinburgh, Uppsala... 13:58:22 ... Semlab provides parallel corpora for system training, news feeds, Dow Jones 13:58:39 ... Goal for project is to integrate translation in sentiment website 13:59:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 13:59:41 ... Here's what the website looks like. Shows companies on left, hotspot map ordered by positive/negative, on right the events 14:00:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 14:00:41 ... The SMT project integrates a translation function, button. You can click an event/message and get an option to translate to a specific language 14:01:23 ... MT, have had surprisingly good results with test sets, but problems with business and finance, cannot publish yet 14:02:07 ... Service to translate terminology 14:02:53 ... Goal is to translate important financial news from other countries in local language relevant to you 14:03:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 14:03:41 ... Semantic analysis or sentiment extraction is sensitive, translation may change subtle elements 14:04:26 ... Challenges: MT system integration, standards for APIs. Google API not rich enough for domain specific MT 14:05:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 14:05:41 ... Problem with data collection: backlog of news, but not delivered as parallel corpora, not managaeble. Instead focus on news reports, use as source for parallel corpora 14:06:13 ... Issue with difference in phrasing, writing 14:06:23 ... To wrap up: 2 kinds of things needed: 14:06:39 ... Accessibility, standard APIs, find the right services 14:07:08 ... Quality assurance, how do you know if data is good when it's scraped automatically 14:07:33 chaals has joined #mlw 14:07:49 Topic: Sebastian Hellman on NLP interchange format (NIF) 14:08:13 tadej has joined #mlw 14:08:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 14:09:01 ma has joined #mlw 14:09:13 Sebastian: NLP interchange format (NIP) is an RDF /OWL-based format allowing combination of NLP tools 14:10:20 ... Problem: NLP normally organized in pipelines (UIMA, Gate) 14:11:00 ... Integration is hardwired, need an adapter for each tool, no ad hoc integration, difficult to aggregate, not robust 14:11:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 14:11:35 ... Comparison chart for criteria for integration 14:12:30 ... Example of criteria, support for: typed annotation, annotation type inheritence, alternative annotations - all supported by RDF 14:14:02 ... NIF integration architecture: client server model, client has a local db, sends document to different NLP tools, retrieves back RDF 14:14:24 ... Each NLP tool has an NIF wrapper 14:15:01 ... Example language resources, DBPedia, Wordnet - can also be accessed 14:16:04 ... Challenge, how to handle strings with URIs as RDF is made up of URIs? 14:16:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 14:16:47 ... 2 schemes to handle: version 1, use begin and end index, not good if offset changes 14:17:03 ... But this version is easy to handle, parse 14:17:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 14:17:54 tadej has joined #mlw 14:18:05 ... Version 2 is based on a filehash, more stable, only considers local context. Works even if text before changes. 14:19:30 ... Some annotation samples, showing how RDF is used, how tools can add annotation to a sentence, snowball stemmer, adding a tag, stanford parser, merged rdf 14:20:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 14:21:08 ... OLiA, Ontologies of linguistic annotation, local annottion model for tagset, linked to olia reference model 14:21:32 ... Ontologies can be used to achieve parser, lang and framework independence 14:21:49 ... Great for conceptual interoperability 14:22:23 ... Roadmap: NIF 1.0 published, http://nlp2rdf.org allows to browse implementations 14:22:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 14:22:45 ... Next step is to benchmark string uri properties 14:23:00 ... Interactive tutorial challenges online to foster adoption, 14:23:26 ... later 2.0 draft will be refined based on implementation experience, can serve as basis for standard 14:24:19 Topic: Yoshihiko Hayashi on "LMF-aware web services for accessing lexical resources" 14:25:55 Yoshihiko: Take home message, intl standards for lang resource management, worked out by ISO, can be effectively utilized in implementing standardized language web services 14:26:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 14:26:12 ... in particular for accessing lexical resources 14:26:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 14:27:12 ... Wordnet type semantic lexicons. Princeton WordNet PWN is a large lexical database of English based on relational semantics 14:27:37 ... Nouns, verbs etc are grouped into sets of cognitive synonyms, synsets 14:28:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 14:28:38 .. Figure, relational structure in Wordnet, relations between synset, more general concept: hyponym 14:28:50 ... Lexical markup famrwork (LMF) 14:29:28 ... Standard ISO framework for modelling lexical resources (lexicons). Wordnet-LMF is version for Wordnet type lexicons 14:31:10 ... Basic ideas: access to a lexicon is achieved query driven extraction, and presentation of relevant portions, sub-lexicon 14:31:44 .. Sublexicon epresented by REST uri, sublexicon can be rendered as Wordnet-LMF 14:31:59 s/epresented/represented/ 14:32:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 14:32:23 s/http:\/\/www.glazman.org\/weblog\/dotclear\/index.php?post\/2010\/11/12\/BlueGriffon-add-ons/http:\/\/bluegriffon.org/ 14:32:46 .. Explanation of URI patterns, uri specifies lexicon, structural constraints, other attributes. 14:33:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 14:33:29 ... Example showing part of speech as constraint in uri 14:34:02 ... URI used as query language 14:35:27 ... Directives, to collect synsets, retrieve by sense number, by relation 14:36:04 [Resulting document example given] 14:37:58 chaals has joined #mlw 14:38:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 14:38:25 Yoshihiko: Format can easily be conferted to other forms, to html from Wordnet-LMF via style conversion 14:39:14 ... Next topic: to revise Wordnet-LMF to accomodate bilingual semantic lexicons 14:40:26 .. Concluding remarks, LMF can be used to implement standardized lexicon access webservices, however modifications were needed for EDR bilingual dictionary 14:40:41 Topic: Questions on machines sessions 14:41:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 14:41:25 Christian: For Sebastian, you are looking at an ability to annotate strings, with RDF correct? 14:41:35 Sebastian: Correct, use ontology 14:41:46 Christian: Could not XPointer be used? 14:42:32 Sebastian: You are thinking about XML/HTML, I'm thinking about text, anything in a text editor. 14:42:58 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 14:43:19 Christian: Question on Wordnet, usage of RDF, why can't I use Sparkle 14:43:40 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 14:43:45 [Dag: I missed Yoshihiko's answer can someone enter it] 14:44:49 Question: Introducing XML:TM wold enhance the application 14:44:49 Hayashi-san: i think it's simpler to use URIs 14:45:26 Sebastian: You can use URIs on the web 14:45:41 Andrej: You use a copy 14:46:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 15:02:03 lbellido has joined #mlw 15:03:50 tadej has joined #mlw 15:15:36 SDL_Paul has joined #mlw 15:15:39 Jirka has joined #mlw 15:17:03 r12a has joined #mlw 15:17:18 topic: Users session 15:17:40 topic: Digital Content Management Standards for the Personalised Multlingual Web by Alexander O'Connor 15:17:48 fsasaki has joined #mlw 15:18:54 Carrasco has joined #mlw 15:19:23 Alexander: There is huge amount of data generated each day on the Web 15:19:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 15:20:30 ... audience needs to find and understand to content 15:20:59 ... web 2.0 was about interaction, web 3.0 must be about recommendation and personalization 15:22:41 tadej has joined #mlw 15:23:20 ... personalization in use: Google search history, Amazon recommendations 15:23:20 s/http:\/\/www.glazman.org\/weblog\/dotclear\/index.php?post\/2010\/11\/12\/BlueGriffon-add-ons/http:\/\/bluegriffon.org/ 15:24:15 ... personalization strategy = user model + domain model + content model 15:25:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 15:27:51 ... there is a lot of content formats, we need something which can be reordered for personalization 15:30:01 ... linked data is more research oriented 15:30:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 15:30:26 ... schema.org is effort of Google, Microsoft and Yahoo to provide common vocabulary for events, people, ... 15:32:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 15:32:39 ... for identifying people 3 standards are most used OpenID, WebID and OAuth 15:34:21 ... standards for exporting data from G+/FB are very strange for now 15:34:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 15:36:18 topic: An Open Source tool helps a global community of professionals shift from traditional contacts and annual meetings to continuous interaction on the web by Olaf-Michael Stefanov 15:38:00 chaals has joined #mlw 15:38:17 Olaf: Challenge - maintenance of multilingual site without budget 15:38:47 tadej has joined #mlw 15:38:52 ... solution - use open-source tool supporting multilinguality and crowdsourcing 15:39:11 ... tiki wiki is a such software 15:39:55 ... JIAMCATT = Joint Inter-Agency Meeting on Computer-Assisted Translation and Terminology 15:40:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 15:42:38 ... shows some impressive numbers 15:45:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 15:45:39 s/Multlingual/Multilingual/ 15:46:01 ... linport.org project 15:47:40 ... tiki has no concept of single source language 15:50:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 15:50:39 Olaf: introduces more tiki features useful for collaborative translation 15:53:09 topic: Q&A 15:53:42 Christian: Alex, what was recommendation to localizers. 15:54:15 Alex: Good localization needs additional metadata, including identification, personalization, ... 15:55:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 15:55:17 Q: Some business also use linked data, there is also schema.rdf.org 15:55:33 Alex: it is not war, but question of adoption 15:55:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 15:56:01 Scribe: chaals 15:56:09 Topic: Policies 15:56:31 Jorg: We start with terminology, new approaches. 15:57:23 Gerhard: Terminology, who needs it and what's up, and standards... how they happen, where to. 15:58:01 ... Multilingual semWeb is a current trend. Often terminologies are ontologies, and discussion / work topics include mulri-ligualising them. 15:58:47 ... Proble: Semweb is language-unaware, in contrast to the fact that there are partial symmetries between languages, which doesn't match the language-independent data-models. 16:02:00 chaals has joined #mlw 16:02:02 Carrasco has joined #mlw 16:02:18 ... Lots of standards, projects, etc. Lots of diversity... 16:02:28 ... maybe too much 16:03:21 [explains some alphabet soup of examples] 16:03:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 16:03:52 ... consider ??? one of the most promising approaches so far 16:04:22 s/???/lemon/ 16:04:38 s/far/far - might be brought forward within w3c/ 16:04:40 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 16:05:02 Gerhard: pre-normative research is important to road-test potential standards. 16:06:08 ... examples for Multilingual SemWeb include Lise (legal), TES4IP (intellectual property), MGRM (risk management) 16:08:15 ... Conclusions: We need to make stakeholders talk to each other, implement and test, with users involved at the beginning. Different domains imply diverse scenarios. 16:08:21 ... The degree of diversity can be easily under-estimated, but there is still a lot to learn from each other. 16:09:13 ... Linked Open Data is a promising approach. 16:09:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 16:09:39 lbellido has joined #mlw 16:12:29 chaals has joined #mlw 16:12:40 Georg: Who is familiar with META-NET? 16:12:43 [about half] 16:13:06 lbellido has joined #mlw 16:13:31 Georg: ML Europe: Challenge is to stop small languages from being a disadvantage. 16:13:39 ... we have progress but not fast enough to succeed. 16:14:17 ... METANET is trying to get stakeholders to team up for this. 16:14:25 tadej has joined #mlw 16:14:42 s/for this/to foster mutilingual information society/ 16:14:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 16:15:07 ... community, strategic research goals is my topic for today. 16:16:38 ... open technology alliance of 300 members, anyone can join. 16:18:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 16:18:17 Georg: Metanet language white papers describe technology status for different languages 16:19:02 ... key messages are about social situation - economic, challenges, risks they face. 16:20:38 ... Assessing Language technology support is tricky - can count many different kinds of things. 16:21:39 ... we went from surveys assessing what is where and how it works, and aggregated and condensed it for journalists/politicians (our target audience) 16:22:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 16:22:41 ... clustering different themes and different quality. 16:23:40 ... in speech things look good for large languages, while for machine translation things look bad to awful outside english... 16:24:17 ... Most large companies have stopped working on language technology. 16:25:26 Georg: Trying to use this information to drive a reasearch agenda for filling the gaps identified. 16:26:13 ... And to build a community behind it, with a vision. 16:26:44 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 16:27:02 [beep beep beep] 16:27:18 Georg: We assembled groups to propose visions. 16:27:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 16:27:52 ... these are condensed down. 16:28:26 [roadmap: finish spring next year with a roadmap for more to do] 16:28:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 16:30:45 Topic: Standards: aspects beyond technical specs 16:31:51 Arle: GALA vision is same as what we are thinking here, but not restricted to the web 16:31:51 r12a has joined #mlw 16:32:46 ... problems that standards are created to solve are business needs, output is a technical specification. 16:33:30 ... by geeks, for geeks; not for their users. 16:34:03 ... How do companies give input to the standards that have input on them, if they're not rich? 16:34:48 http://xkcd.com/927 -> what we do 16:35:15 Arle: There are specs that are *unimplementable*, and/or *incomprehensible*. 16:35:54 lbellido has left #mlw 16:36:48 ... So what is missing that GALA can contribute? 16:36:58 ... Coordination, Education, Promotion. 16:37:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 16:38:08 ... Coordination: bilateral liaison doesn't scale. 16:39:32 lbellido has joined #mlw 16:39:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 16:40:46 ... Need to teach people what to use how, and promote the use of best practice in the first place. 16:41:36 ... Need to identify what we are doing at a business level, and then how to tie it to technical solutions 16:42:43 ... There is a gap between web solutions, and things that solve these problems not on the web. need to get these groups to talk to each other. 16:43:23 ... So join in and help. 16:44:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 16:44:20 [finished early \o/ ] 16:45:05 Q: What languages are metanet papers on languages available in? 16:45:20 Georg: Written in english, being translated to language they report on. 16:45:35 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 16:46:39 Q: Maybe we could get a summary of all the standards from the workshop - a glossary of alphabet soup we've talked about 16:46:54 ACTION: Olof-Michael to collect this. 16:46:54 Sorry, couldn't find user - Olof-Michael 16:47:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 16:47:20 Gerhard: I can give you a starting list of a few dozen (although it is incomplete...) 16:48:01 Q: European Commission tried to have a couple of people working full time to maintain the list of standards. It's a big job. 16:49:04 O-M: If we list the things we have now can we make it simpler? 16:50:13 Chaals: How do we reduce the number of standards, by getting multiple things to merge together. 16:50:27 ... or are we doomed to an ever-increasing list? 16:50:55 Arle: Think they don't have so much overlap, not sure we want to do that 16:51:21 lbellido has left #mlw 16:51:31 TImo: We would need to have social scientists. Having communication is important. For developers it is important to know about the market situation - which standards are disappearing... 16:51:45 n5ti has joined #mlw 16:51:56 Felix: For people working in web standards, Gala and MetaNet look really similar. But people inside them see the difference clearly. 16:52:22 n5ti has left #mlw 16:52:26 ... we need to make the differences understandable. Which is what this work is doing... 16:52:38 s/work/forum/ 16:53:00 Gerhard: Agree. There are so many groups using these, even without knowing much about them. 16:54:14 ... There is a lot of work to prevent confusing target audiences. 16:54:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 16:54:44 Joerg: You mentioned MT support in different languages. Are your data up to date? 16:55:06 Georg: They are very stark generalisations of aggregated expert opinions (and guesses) 16:55:24 ... I think yes. 16:55:40 Joerg: Does you strategy include recommendations for implementation and new standardisation? 16:56:11 Georg: Mostly will be roadmaps to about 2025 concerned with solution visions. 16:56:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 16:58:10 [logistics, adjourn. Think about ideas for discussion tomorrow] 17:32:15 tadej has joined #mlw 17:38:17 tadej1 has joined #mlw 17:49:44 tadej has joined #mlw 17:54:00 fsasaki has joined #mlw 17:54:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-minutes.html fsasaki 17:54:13 rssagent, bye 17:54:25 rrsagent, bye 17:54:25 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-actions.rdf : 17:54:25 ACTION: Olof-Michael to collect this. [1] 17:54:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-mlw-irc#T16-46-54