15:04:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #htmlt
15:04:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/20-htmlt-irc
15:05:34 <krisk> Agenda -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2011Sep/0007.html
15:05:57 <krisk> If anyone wants to dial into conf call speak up...
15:06:09 <krisk> I suspect we'll just be on IRC like normal...
15:07:31 <krisk> Agenda Item #1 Check for bugs on Approved Tests
15:07:58 <krisk> bug 14191?
15:08:13 <krisk> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=14191
15:08:37 <krisk> This was opened by ms2ger...
15:08:44 <Ms2ger> Philip is finishing his PhD, and won't have time to look at it in the next few weeks
15:08:46 <jgraham> Philip is finishing his PhD so he is busy for a few weeks
15:08:51 <jgraham> Dammit
15:09:05 <jgraham> At least we have a consistent story
15:09:38 <krisk> I'm open to having someone convert the tests
15:09:54 <Ms2ger> I can do that, but I don't want to do it without Philip's okay
15:10:37 <jgraham> There isn't any problem with waiting a bit
15:10:38 <krisk> I don't think it makes sense to remove them from the approved folder
15:11:01 <krisk> Though we should set a date when we think it's reasonable to convert the tests
15:11:22 <jgraham> If Philip's PhD funding is the way I expect, he probably has to finish very soon, so I don't think this will drap on
15:11:25 <jgraham> *drag
15:11:36 <jgraham> Or at least he will need a different excuse for being busy
15:12:03 <krisk> Ok then lets plan on having these get converted at some point
15:12:56 <krisk> We also need to move the getElementsByClassname tests to the Dom core WebApps suite
15:13:18 <krisk> I see that jgraham is OK with this looking at the list
15:13:53 <krisk> http://w3c-test.org/webapps/DOMCore/tests/submissions would be the location
15:14:57 <krisk> Did you still want to do this ms2ger?
15:15:08 <Ms2ger> Doing that right now, actually
15:15:24 <krisk> You should create an Opera folder since they created the tests
15:16:58 <krisk> Let move on to agenda item #2
15:17:00 <krisk> "Appcache test format - testing without a network"
15:18:17 <krisk> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#offline
15:18:46 <krisk> Some testing of the feature is going to need a different approach than just using testharness.js
15:19:44 <krisk> The api and events should be fine - but actually checking if the files come from the server vs the 'cache' is a bit more complex
15:20:31 <krisk> It's possible to create a self-describing test...
15:21:14 <krisk> Though I wanted to see if you were intrested in these tests and/or had another option
15:22:01 <krisk> Does anyone have any objections or suggestions?
15:22:11 <Ms2ger> Don't know anything about it myself
15:24:32 <krisk> Microsoft submitted one test for this feature http://w3c-test.org/html/tests/submission/Microsoft/appcache/appcache_000.htm
15:24:59 <krisk> Though it's very simple...but it's a start
15:25:25 <krisk> Firefox seems to support window.applicationCache FWIW
15:26:31 <Ms2ger> I assume we have tests
15:26:37 <krisk> Moving on to Agenda item #3 New Test Submissions
15:27:33 <krisk> Microsoft submitted some history api tests
15:27:43 <krisk> http://w3c-test.org/html/tests/submission/Microsoft/history/history_000.htm
15:28:33 <krisk> Though we don't pass them all we believe some of the tests we fail are correct per the spec and want to fix them in Internet Explorer 10
15:29:34 <krisk> If you think the tests are wrong feel free to make a comment on the list
15:30:10 <krisk> Seems like we can get this feature to be pretty interoperable given it's support in various browsers at this point
15:30:13 <jgraham> They look plausible in that Opera passes them all apart from two fails unrelated to the history API ;)
15:30:48 <jgraham> I am still looking for review of the Opera-submitted history API tests
15:31:44 <jgraham> They also reveal a problem with some changes Aryeh made to testharness.js
15:31:44 <Ms2ger> jgraham, so if you review Microsoft's, maybe krisk can get someone to review yours? :)
15:32:03 <jgraham> Ms2ger: Indeed, that could work :)
15:32:12 <krisk> I'll take a peek
15:32:27 <jgraham> (they are not mine personally, I hasten to add)
15:33:46 <krisk> Microsoft also submitted a 'dat' file for the parser
15:34:02 <jgraham> I would like to take this oppertunity to whine at the continued non-existence of a review tool for hg
15:34:09 <jgraham> krisk: Pointer?
15:34:29 <jgraham> krisk: That should really be added to the html5lib repository under the MIT license
15:35:04 <jgraham> krisk: If that works for you, I can help you get write access to that repo
15:35:57 <Ms2ger> Peter Linss' tool is in production, I believe
15:36:19 <Ms2ger> We should get it set up for HTML
15:37:00 <krisk> Do you have a pointer to the tool?
15:37:38 <jgraham> Is his tool at all sutiable for HTML?
15:37:38 <Ms2ger> http://test.csswg.org/shepherd/
15:37:46 <Ms2ger> No idea
15:37:58 <jgraham> I got the impression it was designed with an entirely differnet set of use cases in mind
15:38:32 <jgraham> Principally allowing third parties to collect test results to produce implementation reports
15:38:55 <jgraham> With a bunch of extra test metadata stuff
15:39:09 <jgraham> I didn't get the impression it was going to be a kickass code-review tool
15:39:18 <jgraham> Which is what I really want
15:39:24 <jgraham> Or at least a mediocre one
15:41:09 <jgraham> So it falls below the level of useful so far
15:41:17 <jgraham> For code review at least
15:41:20 <krisk> If someone moves this to the w3c I can take a peek
15:42:19 <krisk> ...seems like a good question for plh
15:43:36 <krisk> <@jgraham> krisk: If that works for you, I can help you get write access to that repo
15:44:20 <krisk> I don't think anyone from Microsoft will be submitting stuff to a non w3c Hg server
15:45:55 <jgraham> Are you prepared to submit it under the MIT license so that other people can copy it across to the other server?
15:46:22 <jgraham> It would be a great pity if there was fragmentation in the parser testsuite
15:46:23 <krisk> I believe the w3c test suite license allows for that (it's the MIT/BSD license)
15:46:41 <krisk> It's part of the royalty free part of the w3c
15:46:42 <jgraham> I thought it was BSD/W3C license
15:48:17 <krisk> I'm not a lawyer but happy to ask the w3c for clarity
15:48:51 <jgraham> The wiki says "The test suite is licensed under both the W3C Test Suite License and the 3-clause BSD License."
15:49:01 <jgraham> That might be wrong ofc
15:49:23 <jgraham> Anyway, please ask w3c staff
15:50:20 <krisk> sounds good
15:51:19 <krisk> Also if you follow the webapps WG Microsoft also submitted some tests for workers, indexed db and web sockets
15:51:34 <jgraham> Yes, I saw that. Thanks!
15:51:50 <krisk> If you have feedback on the tests being correct feel free to send it to the web-apps list
15:52:24 <krisk> Also Microsoft would like to facilitate getting a backend setup on the w3c for testing websockets
15:53:08 <krisk> I plan on attending TPAC so this might be a good agenda items for the webapps WG
15:53:58 <krisk> Anne (from opera) was also asking for XHR2 tests since it looks like he is the only one submitting tests
15:54:08 <jgraham> I should be at TPAC too; I can organise to be in the WebApps meeting
15:54:56 <krisk> Shall we adjourn?
15:54:59 <Ms2ger> Sure
15:56:03 <krisk> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:56:13 <krisk> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:56:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/20-htmlt-minutes.html krisk
17:20:51 <Zakim> Zakim has left #htmlt
17:25:33 <Ms2ger> RRSAgent, bye
17:25:33 <RRSAgent> I see no action items