14:49:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dnt
14:49:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/16-dnt-irc
14:49:09 <aleecia> aleecia has joined #dnt
14:49:12 <tlr> rrsagent, make log public
14:49:21 <tlr> Meeting: Tracking Protection Group Open Call
14:49:24 <tlr> Chair: Aleecia
14:51:05 <Zakim> Team_(dnt)15:00Z has now started
14:51:12 <Zakim> +aleecia
14:52:26 <Zakim> + +1.949.202.aaaa
14:53:15 <aleecia> DW, visual aid
14:57:35 <aleecia> If you are on IRC but not the call bridge, please dial in
14:58:01 <aleecia> +1.617.761.6200, code TRACK (87225)
14:58:14 <Zakim> + +1.770.392.aabb
14:58:33 <aleecia> at&t
14:59:13 <Zakim> + +1.425.269.aacc
14:59:35 <aleecia> microsoft
14:59:41 <Zakim> + +1.412.268.aadd
14:59:52 <dsinger_> dsinger_ has joined #dnt
14:59:58 <mischat_> mischat_ has joined #dnt
14:59:59 <Zakim> +dsinger
15:00:09 <Zakim> + +54351420aaee
15:00:12 <Zakim> +Thomas
15:00:36 <aleecia> 543 intel
15:00:50 <tlr> zakim, aaee is intel
15:00:50 <Zakim> +intel; got it
15:01:00 <tlr> zakim, aacc is microsoft
15:01:00 <Zakim> +microsoft; got it
15:01:04 <Zakim> + +1.303.438.aaff
15:01:12 <tlr> zakim, aabb is att
15:01:12 <Zakim> + +44.776.855.aagg
15:01:12 <Zakim> +att; got it
15:01:20 <tlr> zakim, aaff is trueffect
15:01:20 <Zakim> +trueffect; got it
15:01:20 <dsinger_> zakim, who is here?
15:01:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see aleecia, +1.949.202.aaaa, att, microsoft, +1.412.268.aadd, dsinger, intel, Thomas, trueffect, +44.776.855.aagg
15:01:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see mischat_, dsinger_, aleecia, RRSAgent, Zakim, tlr, TruEffect, mischat, schunter1, hober
15:01:31 <tlr> zakim, aagg is Vodafone
15:01:31 <Zakim> +Vodafone; got it
15:01:55 <tlr> zakim, mute me
15:01:55 <Zakim> sorry, tlr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:01:55 <dsinger_> Who is in 949 and 412 areas?
15:01:58 <tlr> zakim, I am thomas
15:01:58 <Zakim> ok, tlr, I now associate you with Thomas
15:02:02 <tlr> zakim, mute me
15:02:02 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
15:02:07 <tlr> aleecia: hi
15:02:14 <Zakim> +shayman
15:02:20 <Zakim> +??P18
15:02:21 <tlr> … there'll be another co-chair pending paperwork
15:02:35 <mischat_> zakim, ??P18 is me 
15:02:35 <Zakim> +mischat_; got it
15:02:44 <tlr> … about me
15:02:58 <tlr> … starting part-time post-doc this fall
15:03:04 <tlr> … part-time senior privacy researcher at Mozilla
15:03:15 <Bruce> Bruce has joined #dnt
15:03:22 <tlr> … there'll be another Mozilla representative so I can focus on chairing
15:03:30 <tlr> … role is to help create consensus decisions
15:03:34 <tlr> ack thomas
15:04:02 <Yang> Yang has joined #dnt
15:04:09 <mischat> tlr: Thomas oversees relevant work at the w3
15:04:15 <Louise> Louise has joined #dnt
15:04:53 <dsinger_> Q+
15:05:25 <dsinger_> Ack dsinger
15:06:03 <mischat> aleecia: people with name starting later in the alphabet, please introduce yourself 
15:07:38 <tlr> aleecia: lots of attention, exciting times
15:08:19 <tlr> … http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/charter.html
15:08:21 <tlr> … acknowledge massively aggressive schedule
15:08:26 <tlr> … there's a lot going on in the ecosystem around us
15:08:32 <tlr> … and a lot of that is going quickly
15:08:43 <tlr> … also, note users and DNT implementers
15:08:54 <tlr> … don't want for early adopters to have to change implementation
15:09:02 <tlr> … also, users rightly perplexed by what browsers are doing
15:09:07 <tlr> … want to do excellent work, not just fast work
15:09:15 <tlr> … there will be times when it's important to slow down
15:09:18 <tlr> … balancing act there
15:09:26 <tlr> … compressed time line means more work more quickly
15:09:49 <tlr> … this work is worth the extra effort
15:10:00 <tlr> … immediate time line: FPWD end of the month
15:10:19 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/charter.html#deliverables
15:10:36 <tlr> … (deliverable structure)
15:10:42 <tlr> … let me highlight a few things we'll not do
15:10:50 <tlr> … definitions part — don't deal with huge issues like "what is privacy"
15:11:02 <tlr> … not looking into philosophy, nail down terms needed for there set of the documents
15:11:07 <tlr> … "what does it mean to be a first party"
15:11:28 <Zakim> + +358.504.87aahh
15:11:52 <tlr> … expect for the process to be iterative
15:11:58 <tlr> … also, don't expect to have consensus on everything
15:12:08 <tlr> … document what has consensus, and what doesn't
15:12:19 <tlr> … end month with understanding of scope and direction
15:12:22 <Francisco> Francisco has joined #dnt
15:12:23 <tlr> … what can you do to help?
15:12:27 <tlr> … input documents!
15:12:32 <tlr> … some work here is dating back to 2007
15:12:41 <tlr> http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/
15:13:00 <tlr> … please send note to mailing list with proposals for input documents
15:13:09 <tlr> … please be on the lookout for any great input documents
15:13:14 <tlr> … also, more importantly — think about use cases
15:14:01 <tlr> … the Princeton humm suggested tracking definition + exceptions
15:14:14 <tlr> … please send use cases to mailing list that permit somewhat more detailed discussion
15:14:19 <tlr> … e.g., not just "security"
15:14:39 <tlr> ... also, please think about *your* success criteria 
15:14:54 <tlr> … about the Cambridge meeting — hotels look bad right now, sorry
15:14:59 <tlr> … two very full days ahead of us with long breaks
15:15:03 <tlr> … self-hosted dinner on the 21st
15:15:26 <tlr> … goal is to do things jointly, collaboratively
15:15:38 <dwferrell> dwferrell has joined #dnt
15:16:32 <tlr> … we look for spirited back-and-forth, but will step in if discussions should go personal
15:16:42 <tlr> … most frequently asked question: what to expect for other f2f meetings
15:16:49 <tlr> … 3-4 meetings; more frequently early on
15:16:58 <tlr> … second meeting in Santa Clara, CA
15:16:58 <tlr> q+
15:17:14 <tlr> … third meeting in Europe, perhaps Belgium — after the holidays
15:17:22 <tlr> … we'll add fourth meeting if and only if necessary
15:17:29 <tlr> … travel budgets are known serious issue
15:17:30 <dsinger_> Q+
15:17:38 <tlr> … if there's a meeting you just cannot attend, we'll understand
15:17:45 <tlr> … also, know several orgs are working through paperwork
15:18:26 <tlr> … MIT sign-up is open to those interested
15:18:35 <tlr> … please register ASAP — today, ideally
15:18:46 <aleecia> q?
15:18:59 <Bruce> Hello - can you outline the best type of person, i.e. technical background, to attend these session.
15:19:21 <aleecia> oct 31, nov 1 for next meeting
15:19:41 <mischat> tlr: additional information, meeting room booking for TPAC has come through, TPAC registration is open, please reg very soon ...
15:19:47 <tlr> http://www.w3.org/2011/11/TPAC/#Finalized
15:19:59 <aleecia> q?
15:19:59 <dsinger_> Ack dsinger
15:20:01 <tlr> ack dsin
15:20:17 <tlr> david: web and TV IG meeting — can't get to Cambridge
15:21:16 <tlr> dsinger: dates early, please please please
15:21:28 <Francisco> q?
15:21:29 <aleecia> q?
15:21:35 <tlr> aleecia: sorry, acknowledged, TPAC 31 October, 1 November
15:21:37 <tlr> q-
15:22:19 <tlr> kenny(ATT): wonder — where could I find discussion, references about premise and motivation to do the work?
15:22:30 <tlr> … appreciate there's lots of legal and pseudo-legal discussions around policy issues
15:22:35 <tlr> … opt-in/opt-out and so on
15:22:47 <tlr> … set of foundational assumptions?
15:23:20 <tlr> aleecia: to address one piece first — opt-in/opt-out is a straight-out political question. out of scope.
15:23:31 <tlr> … that could vary by browser company, by country — whole variety of factors
15:23:38 <tlr> … that's a discussion that will continue in other fora
15:23:47 <tlr> … secondly, in terms of some of the foundational work
15:23:53 <tlr> … input documents that we have put on the WG home page
15:23:57 <tlr> … are documents we're looking at right now
15:23:58 <Zakim> + +1.408.536.aaii
15:24:09 <tlr> … if there are others we should look at, we'd be delighted to have input
15:24:17 <tlr> … if you have additional input, please provide it
15:24:24 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/#input-documents
15:24:26 <tlr> … in some cases, will compare documents to see where there are points of agreements
15:24:31 <mischat> ^^ input documents
15:24:37 <tlr> … in some cases, look at issues etc
15:24:49 <tlr> … in terms of philosophy for do not track
15:24:53 <MeMe> MeMe has joined #dnt
15:25:02 <tlr> … expect that if we have 30 people in the room, will have 40 opinions
15:25:07 <tlr> … different backgrounds and different views
15:25:14 <tlr> … don't think we'll have all of that resolved
15:25:26 <tlr> … get to consensus on what technology looks like, and what people need to do
15:26:16 <tlr> kenny: there must be a consensus about technical requirement assumption
15:26:23 <tlr> aleecia: consensus of the group
15:26:28 <tlr> kenny: technical requirements?
15:26:38 <tlr> aleecia: unusually highly watched, highly political environment
15:26:46 <tlr> … many of the recommendations from W3C are not on that level
15:26:51 <tlr> … not unprecedented
15:27:28 <tlr> … w3c more on the technical, than the political side
15:27:37 <tlr> … technical decisions / policy decisions influence each other
15:27:53 <tlr> … note that people from FTC, regulators internationally are paying attention
15:28:00 <tlr> … likely to act as observers
15:28:19 <tlr> hannes: my interpretation is that there is one purely technical piece of work
15:28:21 <tlr> … the header
15:28:24 <Francisco> zakim, q+
15:28:24 <Zakim> I see Francisco on the speaker queue
15:28:35 <aleecia> q?
15:28:44 <tlr> … there is also a policy piece that goes beyond the technical work
15:28:53 <tlr> … in the mozilla submission, that related to what the semantics of the header are
15:28:57 <mischat> This specification defines the meaning of a Do Not Track preference and sets out practices for Web sites to comply with this preference." sounds like what people are talking about now 
15:29:01 <tlr> … same meaning associated to that across the meaning
15:29:10 <tlr> … that's the interesting part of the whole conversation, but also the difficult one
15:29:17 <tlr> aleecia: that's the bulk of the work, indeed
15:29:26 <Zakim> -trueffect
15:29:52 <tlr> … to take an example — if there was a decision that DNT does not apply to first parties
15:30:01 <tlr> … then that has policy implications, also business implications
15:30:18 <tlr> … those are the things where the technical decisions would implicate the policy effects
15:30:54 <tlr> q?
15:31:08 <tlr> DWFarrel: opt-in / opt-out in scope for later?
15:31:11 <tlr> aleecia: out of scope
15:31:20 <tlr> francisco: not involved in a w3c group before
15:31:24 <dsinger_> dsinger_ has joined #dnt
15:31:34 <tlr> … won't be able to attend the first two meetings; I'm in Argentina
15:31:45 <tlr> … what level of work can be done off-line?
15:31:57 <tlr> aleecia: expect first draft to be highly face-to-face
15:32:06 <tlr> … for subsequent drafts, more on mailing list
15:32:17 <tlr> … use face-to-face to work through issues that have been surfaced on mailing list
15:32:20 <Zakim> -microsoft
15:32:32 <tlr> … if you're not able to make any of the WG meetings in person, then probably good choice to find somebody else in your organization
15:33:18 <tlr> francisco: dial-in possible?
15:33:24 <tlr> aleecia: for first meeting, working to set up phone
15:33:39 <tlr> … fear the acoustics of the room aren't speaker phone friendly
15:33:45 <tlr> … also, IRC
15:33:58 <tlr> … doing best we can to accommodate, but phone bridge might not work as well as we'd like
15:33:59 <aleecia> q?
15:34:03 <tlr> ack franci
15:34:31 <tlr> aleecia: meeting adjourned
15:35:06 <Zakim> - +1.408.536.aaii
15:35:09 <dsinger_> Bye
15:35:10 <Zakim> -Thomas
15:35:11 <Zakim> - +358.504.87aahh
15:35:11 <Zakim> -att
15:35:12 <Zakim> -mischat_
15:35:12 <Zakim> -intel
15:35:12 <tlr> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:35:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/16-dnt-minutes.html tlr
15:35:13 <Zakim> -shayman
15:35:14 <Zakim> -Vodafone
15:35:16 <Zakim> -dsinger
15:35:17 <Zakim> -aleecia
15:35:19 <Zakim> - +1.949.202.aaaa
15:35:21 <Zakim> - +1.412.268.aadd
15:35:23 <Zakim> Team_(dnt)15:00Z has ended
15:35:25 <Zakim> Attendees were aleecia, +1.949.202.aaaa, +1.770.392.aabb, +1.425.269.aacc, +1.412.268.aadd, dsinger, +54351420aaee, Thomas, intel, microsoft, +1.303.438.aaff, +44.776.855.aagg,
15:35:28 <Zakim> ... att, trueffect, Vodafone, shayman, mischat_, +358.504.87aahh, +1.408.536.aaii
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