See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 15 September 2011
<kford> **ALL OF GL1 IS COMPLETE!
<kford> 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 2.9 2.10 2.11
<kford> 3.1 3.2 3.3 3.4
<kford> **ALL OF GL1 IS COMPLETE!!
<kford> 2.5.1 discover keystrokes
<kford> 2.7.1 - 7 preference settings
<kford> 2.11.3, 2.11.4 execution placeholder and toggle
<kford> 2.11.6 Stop/Pause/Resume Time-Based Media
<kford> 2.11.7 Navigate Time-Based Media
<kford> 2.11.8 Semantic Navigation of Time-Based Media
<kford> 2.11.9 Track Enable/Disable of Time-Based Media
<kford> 2.11.10 Sizing Playback Viewport: (examples)
<kford> 2.11.11 Scale and position alternative media tracks (examples)
<kford> 2.11.12 Adjust Playback Contrast and Brightness (examples) **ALL GL3 IER ARE COMPLETE!!!
<kford> 4.2.1 Hand-off Focus (intent)
<kford> 4.2.3 Nested user agents (focus) (intent) **ALL OF GL5 IS COMPLETE!!
all: discussing the LCWD of Touch events standard http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-Touch-Events-20110913/
<scribe> scribe: jallan
kp: some utility to touch events. can combine unrelated modes to make user more efficient.
<Greg> Does the standard identify touch sources and targets and what specific gestures each supports, e.g. drag, pinch, draw path?
<Greg> That is, equivalent of identifying drag source and target.
js: can register without paying.
several not registered
scribe: we will have a phone bridge
kf: attend by phone.
tpac registration for in person only, jeanne will set up a reg for folks attending by phone.
mh: change of affiliation, now with ETS. focus on accessibility. web delivery and device delivery.
in browser irc client http://irc.w3.org
js: pf has requested that UAWG review.
WAI has requested that UAWG review UAAG for mobile. need sub-group
should cover smart phone and tablet.
mobile review participants - mark (tablet), jeanne, kim, jim (?)
gl: does this concern bandwidth, form factor (small screen), input limitations (small, limited keyboard), local storage
js: looking specifically at UA on mobile devices (interface, content access).
1.7.x Save copies of style sheets: The user can save copies of the style sheets referenced by the current page, so that they can edit and load them as user style sheets. (AA)
gl: wanted the last clause to prevent binary downloads of css.
ja: perhaps save as 'text' to prevent binary downloads.
gl: need to be more global. what
is the UI for this. user needs ready access to this. user
should be able to specify where it is save.
... this should be included in the EIR. what is the minimum we have to say in the SC/EIR to make it clear what we want the user to be able to do.
js: webkit implementation UI is good, FF is poor.
kp: many user don't user tooks because of file management issues. want this to be easy.
kf: file management, unique to the UA or OS
kp: if you can't find it, you won't us it.
ja: e.g. stuff save in 'application data' hidden folder.
mh: most every browser uses the standard system file handling
<Greg> My example of a user-unfriendly implementation would be that done by the Session Manager add-in for Firefox. It allows you to save and restore the state of a session or window, and it saves it as a text file, but it's hidden in an obscure location that's not told to the user, and its in a JSON text format that users cannot easily edit.
ja: is the AAA or AA
AAA - MH, KF, JR,
AA - JS, SH
undecided - JA, GL
AA - KP
ja: most browsers allow user to save CSS. and their are plugins.
js: adding to draft
1.7.y The user agent can inform the user when the author style sheet has changed, so they can be warned that they may need to edit their user style sheet accordingly
kf: what is a change in the CSS?
gl: specific css properties.
kf: not happening.
mh: mod to style sheet. if user made specific css for app, then author changes css, and info disappears, then what?
js: user CSS is tough, don't want to change.
mh: but what if info vanishes and you don't know because of user css.
js: on big sites, css is tweaked weekly, most invisible to the end user.
kp: if you at least have the info then you can do something about.
kf: very technical, very difficult to compare documents.
mh: since I was pushing this on the last call. need to adjust the ier.
gl: perhaps mark can create scenarios. there may be a need.
ja: suggest, talking with Wayne Dick in CA
<scribe> ACTION: mark to come back with proposal for diff of css by UA or kill the SC [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-614 - Come back with proposal for diff of css by UA or kill the SC [on Markku Hakkinen - due 2011-09-22].
<jeanne> ACTION: Jeanne to add new SC 1.7.x to document. See minutes of 15 September [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-615 - Add new SC 1.7.x to document. See minutes of 15 September [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-09-22].
zakim: open item 3
he was reviewing http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20110718/
reviewing first comment: Does the rendering include tool tips? Visual readers with low vision (VR/LV) need alternative text for icons especially. Currently the "title" attribute is displayed as a tooltip. However, since the there is no guideline mandating use of "title" , tooltips may or may not be present in WCAG conformant documents.
gl: is this about UI or content?
'title' not well supported by AT or speech input interface, nor
... have address this by saying everything should be accessible by keyboard, do we need to say more.
... if he reads this and is not sure that the GLs apply to tooltips...do we need say more
kf: tooltip from keyboard hasn't happened yet in UA.
gl: tooltip is only used a couple of times in our document.
ja: thinks browsers will leave it up to the author to write JS to make tooltips keyboard accessible.
js: perhaps we should answer by saying how we have covered it.
<Greg> It looks like 1.1 gives users lots of power over when to replace elements with their alternative content, but nothing about allowing the user to have the alternative content presented to them in a transient fashion e.g. by tooltips or other popups when requested.
kp: tool tips used by mouse. usually provides keyboard short cuts, but mouse users don't need it. keyboard users need it, but can't get at it.
gl: tooltips may need to be a new SC.
kp perhaps need a tooltip example in 2.1.1
<Greg> Dick has low vision, and can't identify an icon so wants to be able to read its alternative text. Most users would be able to hover the mouse over the icon and have its alternative text displayed as a pop-up or tooltip, but since Dick does not use a mouse, he can activate a command that allows him to use the tab key to move the keyboard focus to elements that have alternative content and...
<Greg> ...then press another key to cause the pop-up to be displayed.
ja: but since Dick does not use a mouse, when he arrows or tabs over an item the 'title' element will display as a tooltip.
discussing problems with tooltip popup in the OS.
<Greg> Discussions of the pros and cons of automatically displaying tooltips as the user moves the focus with the keyboard.
gl: we don't need 1 UI to solve all problems.
kf: uses tooltips from the keyboard in the OS as an argument for tooltips in the browser.
<Greg> Dick has low vision, and can't identify an icon so wants to be able to read its alternative text. Most users would be able to hover the mouse over the icon and have its alternative text displayed as a pop-up ortooltip, but since Dick does not use a mouse, he can activate a command that allows him to use the tab key to move the keyboard focus to elements that have alternative content. Then,...
<Greg> ...when he tabs to the icon, the browser may automatically display the "hover" tooltip, or allow him to press a key to have it displayed.
kf: notes: OS tool tips can be modified in the OS, or turned off
ja: problem with LV using magnification, when try to read tool tip and move mouse the tooltip vanishes
<KimPatch> Charlie is a speech-recognition user who cannot use his hands to control his computer. It is much easier for him to use keyboard shortcuts then click on an icon in a new program. He needs to be able to see tooltips to discover keyboard shortcuts without having to use the mouse.
gl: my example should be for 2.1.1
<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to add the above examples to 2.1.1 Change the user names. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-616 - Add the above examples to 2.1.1 Change the user names. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-09-22].
<mth> tried to call in again... conference is restricted
<jeanne> mark, use this code 82942. I'll be right there.
<mth> 82942 ok
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/user's/users/ Found Scribe: jallan Inferring ScribeNick: JAllan Default Present: Jim_Allan, +1.425.883.aaaa, Jan, +1.609.734.aabb, Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, Mark, Kelly, Kim_Patch Present: Jim_Allan +1.425.883.aaaa Jan +1.609.734.aabb Jeanne Greg_Lowney Mark Kelly Kim_Patch Regrets: MarkkuH SimonH Found Date: 15 Sep 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-ua-minutes.html People with action items: jeanne mark[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]