14:01:38 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #eval
14:01:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-eval-irc
14:01:45 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:01:45 <Zakim> + +49.404.318.aacc
14:01:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see Eric, +1.301.975.aaaa, ??P15, +1.978.261.aabb, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Shadi, +49.404.318.aacc
14:02:01 <shadi> zakim, aacc is Detlev
14:02:11 <Zakim> +Detlev; got it
14:02:24 <kathy> zakim, aabb is kathy
14:02:32 <Zakim> + +1.248.342.aadd
14:02:39 <dboudreau> dboudreau has joined #eval
14:02:41 <Zakim> +kathy; got it
14:02:55 <Zakim> + +1.703.243.aaee
14:02:57 <ssirois> zakim, ??P15 is ssirois
14:03:03 <Liz> zakim, aaaa is liz
14:03:05 <dboudreau> hi everyone, getting on the call asap
14:03:11 <Zakim> +ssirois; got it
14:03:15 <Zakim> +liz; got it
14:03:20 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:03:20 <ssirois> Zakim, mute me
14:03:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Eric, liz, ssirois, kathy, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Shadi, Detlev, +1.248.342.aadd, +1.703.243.aaee
14:03:44 <Zakim> ssirois should now be muted
14:04:28 <kostas> kostas has joined #eval
14:04:35 <shadi> zakim, aadd is Mike
14:04:36 <Zakim> +Mike; got it
14:04:42 <Zakim> + +30231125aaff
14:04:49 <Zakim> + +1.514.312.aagg
14:04:50 <shadi> zakim, aaee is Tim
14:04:50 <Zakim> +Tim; got it
14:05:05 <dboudreau> zakim, aagg is dboudreau
14:05:06 <Zakim> +dboudreau; got it
14:05:08 <ssirois> hi everyone, won't be talking on the phone line since i forgot my mic @ office and you don't want the feedback of my speakers+my laptop mic! ;)
14:05:28 <ssirois> but i hear you! ;)
14:05:30 <Zakim> +??P50
14:06:23 <vivienne> Zakim, ??p50 is vivienne
14:06:23 <Zakim> +vivienne; got it
14:06:50 <kostas> zakim aaff is kostas
14:07:11 <kostas> zakim, aaff is kostas
14:07:11 <Zakim> +kostas; got it
14:07:17 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:07:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see Eric, liz, ssirois (muted), kathy, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Shadi, Detlev, Mike, Tim (muted), kostas, dboudreau, vivienne
14:07:23 <Vincent> Vincent has joined #eval
14:07:25 <vivienne> zakim, mute me
14:07:25 <Zakim> vivienne should now be muted
14:07:25 <kathy> zakim, mute me
14:07:27 <Zakim> kathy should now be muted
14:07:59 <kathy> zakim, unmute me
14:07:59 <Zakim> kathy should no longer be muted
14:08:01 <Zakim> + +1.514.448.aahh
14:08:29 <dboudreau> zakim, mute me
14:08:29 <Zakim> dboudreau should now be muted
14:08:50 <shadi> scribe: kathy
14:08:53 <Vincent> Zakim, aahh is Vincent
14:08:53 <Zakim> +Vincent; got it
14:09:17 <Vincent> zakim, mute me
14:09:17 <Zakim> Vincent should now be muted
14:09:58 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-evaltf/2011Sep/0056.html
14:10:04 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:10:04 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:10:14 <Zakim> + +90700004aaii
14:10:21 <shadi> Topic: Discussion of the requirements
14:10:30 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #eval
14:10:34 <shadi> zakim, aaii is Emmanuelle
14:10:34 <Zakim> +Emmanuelle; got it
14:10:58 <kathy> Eric: requirements are on the W3C website
14:11:01 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20110915.html
14:11:43 <kathy> Eric:  notes are being sent out as a word document
14:11:43 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-evaltf/2011Sep/0065.html
14:11:45 <sinarmaya> sinarmaya has joined #eval
14:12:46 <kathy> Eric:  terminology has been discussed but not agreed upon by the group - need to review
14:13:20 <kathy> Eric:  start looking at chapter 1 - goals
14:13:56 <kathy> Eric:  discussion on terminology; these are used in the goals and requirements
14:15:06 <kathy> Eric:  is everyone ok with the section on goals
14:15:12 <Zakim> -Mike
14:15:12 <kathy> Liz: asked about tolerence metrics and what that is
14:15:44 <dboudreau> zakim, unmute me
14:15:44 <Zakim> dboudreau should no longer be muted
14:15:53 <Detlev> q+
14:15:58 <dboudreau> q+
14:16:01 <kathy> Eric:  tolerence is the situation where you have many images and only one fails; then does this fail 
14:16:48 <EricVelleman> q?
14:17:32 <Zakim> +Mike
14:17:36 <kathy> Detlev - goals need to include independent verification; at least test results should be included to add credibility
14:17:42 <kostas> +kostas
14:18:50 <shadi> ack det
14:19:02 <shadi> ack db
14:19:18 <kostas> q+
14:19:27 <kathy> Dbourdreau - goals should be described in terminology; tolerence metrics should be included 
14:20:41 <EricVelleman> q?
14:20:42 <dboudreau> zakim, mute me
14:20:43 <Zakim> dboudreau should now be muted
14:20:52 <shadi> ack k
14:21:21 <kathy> Kostas:  goals - critical path analysis; not sure if it should be requirement
14:21:51 <kathy> Eric:  scope is not much different
14:21:55 <shadi> q+
14:21:58 <shadi> ack me
14:22:03 <kathy> Eric: everyone agree on scope?
14:22:17 <Detlev> q+
14:22:19 <kathy> Shadi: should be the methology itself not the task force
14:23:38 <sinarmaya> I was expecting that the "scope" was the scope of the methodolofy too.
14:23:38 <kathy> Shadi:  frame with sub-heading coordination with other groups
14:23:43 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:23:45 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:23:54 <EricVelleman> q?
14:24:41 <shadi> ack d
14:25:05 <dboudreau> q+
14:25:17 <dboudreau> ack me
14:25:24 <kostas> q+
14:25:25 <dboudreau> q+
14:26:00 <kathy> Detlev:  add to scope; full lifecycle from building to maintaining; should be spin offs to extend more than a single evaluation
14:26:17 <kathy> Eric:  Detlev to draft ideas
14:26:30 <shadi> ack k
14:26:44 <kathy> Kostas: reason why we need the methology is missing
14:27:20 <kathy> Eric:  Kostas to provide text as to why
14:28:13 <shadi> ack db
14:28:19 <Ryladog> q+
14:28:26 <kathy> Dbordreau:  methodology should have preliminary evaluation (approach different than the full evaluation).  Have multiple versions for quick eval; simple and easy on representative sample
14:28:47 <kathy> Eric:  good idea; add to scope
14:28:48 <EricVelleman> q?
14:29:10 <dboudreau> zakim, mute me
14:29:11 <Zakim> dboudreau should now be muted
14:29:28 <shadi> q+
14:29:33 <shadi> ack r
14:29:53 <kathy> Ryladog (katie):  agrees with Kosta; sampling methodology should be a separate document as it is a different process
14:30:18 <kathy> Eric:  should be included in the metholodology.  Sampling is required for all evaluations
14:31:09 <shadi> ack t
14:31:21 <kathy> Tim: Authoring tools working group has information on previews; we should include this in our methodology and be consistent with
14:31:41 <shadi> ack me
14:31:46 <kathy> Eric:  Tim will send link and text summary.  This will be included in the document
14:32:01 <EricVelleman> q?
14:32:41 <kathy> Shadi:  this is ok to add to the document; evaluation process where does it start? this will determine the scope of the authoring tools work
14:33:10 <Detlev> q+
14:33:50 <kathy> Shadi:  preliminary or light weight evaluation - need to be considerate about that and we need guideance for both.  Scope needs to reflect what we can do
14:34:06 <kathy> Eric:  should include both scenarios
14:34:13 <vivienne> q?
14:34:20 <dboudreau> ack me
14:34:25 <vivienne> ack me
14:34:28 <dboudreau> q+
14:34:32 <vivienne> q+
14:34:42 <kathy> Eric:  should include 1 page evaluation but this will follow WCAG
14:35:03 <kathy> Shadi:  this metholodology should include small and large websties
14:35:09 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:35:09 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:35:12 <shadi> ack me
14:35:19 <vivienne> q-
14:35:30 <shadi> ack d
14:36:05 <kathy> Detlev:  same approach can be used for preliminary and full evaluation.  All about selecting pages
14:36:13 <Ryladog> q+
14:36:46 <shadi> ack d
14:37:24 <kathy> Denis: preliminary evaluation should not be a requirement; nice to have to give context but not required
14:38:41 <kathy> Denis:  agrees with Detlev about the selection of pages; preliminary evaluation can be used to check to see if the site is ready for review
14:38:49 <shadi> ack r
14:39:00 <Vincent> q+
14:39:02 <dboudreau> zakim, mute me
14:39:02 <Zakim> dboudreau should now be muted
14:39:05 <Vincent> ack me
14:39:12 <kathy> Katie:  sampling, preliminary and full blown are three different approaches
14:39:16 <Vincent> q?
14:39:20 <Vincent> q+
14:39:30 <dboudreau> +1 to targeting a specific component
14:39:47 <shadi> q+ Mike
14:40:27 <shadi> ack v
14:41:05 <kathy> Vincent:  preliminary is not the right name; idea is to get a quick evaluation
14:41:46 <Vincent> mute me
14:41:50 <dboudreau> "quick shot evaluation" instead of preliminary?
14:41:52 <shadi> ack m
14:42:30 <shadi> q+
14:42:36 <kathy> Mike: accessibility problems are identified and the document needs to indicate the issue types; do we want to have two different sets of criteria
14:44:06 <Zakim> -Emmanuelle
14:44:07 <Vincent> Kakim, mute me
14:44:16 <kathy> Mike: single page, sampling page, full site review - what is the difference in approach
14:44:21 <Vincent> Zakim, mute me
14:44:21 <Zakim> Vincent should now be muted
14:44:38 <kathy> Eric: do we need preliminary evaluation
14:44:41 <shadi> ack me
14:44:47 <dboudreau> ack me
14:44:53 <dboudreau> q+
14:46:18 <kathy> Shadi: two types of preliminary evaluations - less technical and technical preliminary review
14:46:46 <kathy> Shadi - we are talking about experts conducting the evaluation
14:46:56 <shadi> ack d
14:48:26 <kathy> Denis:  preliminary is not non-technical evaluation; still need to verify the page and need the level of technical knowledge but small set of things that are being checked
14:49:24 <kathy> Denis:  it is for people to get the general picture
14:49:39 <dboudreau> zakim, mute me
14:49:39 <Zakim> dboudreau should now be muted
14:49:41 <kathy> Eric:  Move on to the target audience
14:49:42 <ssirois> i don't know if I would use words like "light" or "less", that may leave the client with the idea that the evaluation has no value. i like "quick shot" expression more. making it quick doesn't make it less "accessible", just not looking at ALL points.
14:50:23 <kathy> Eric:  send other target audiences over email
14:51:15 <kathy> Eric: requirements - section on terminology; look to see what needs explanation.  If on W3C then we will use that.  If not the group will write up 
14:51:36 <kathy> Eric:  15 requirements were discussed on the list; please react to that 
14:52:34 <dboudreau> ack me
14:52:36 <kathy> Eric:  should we have unique interpretation in the requirements
14:52:43 <kathy> Detlev: yes
14:53:02 <Zakim> -Tim
14:53:06 <kathy> Eric:  should we take this out?  Anyone disagree
14:53:28 <kathy> Denis:  taking it out would leave a hole
14:54:03 <kathy> Eric:  R08 - tried to make it more clear; R11 - a lot of discussion on naming
14:54:29 <kathy> Eric:  we need to discuss these three on the mailing list; do we need change of text/naming; should they be split
14:54:39 <Detlev> q+
14:54:40 <kathy> Eric:  please also give feedback on the other items
14:55:05 <shadi> zakim, close queue
14:55:05 <Zakim> ok, shadi, the speaker queue is closed
14:55:12 <kathy> Eric:  missing - transparency?  Discussion thread will be started
14:55:24 <Detlev> q-
14:55:37 <shadi> ack m
14:55:41 <kathy> Mike:  agree with the previous comment on unique interpretation would leave a hole
14:55:44 <Ryladog> q+
14:55:52 <shadi> zakim, open queue
14:55:53 <Zakim> ok, shadi, the speaker queue is open
14:56:39 <kathy> Katie:  questions on critical path - WCAG it is referred to workflow; we should follow the WCAG terminology
14:56:55 <Detlev> q+
14:57:16 <kathy> Detlev:  conformance is called complete processes
14:57:28 <shadi> ack d
14:57:28 <kathy> Eric:  Katie will research the WCAG terminology
14:58:15 <kathy> Eric:  most of the requirements were agreed on.  Let's concentrate on the others
14:58:31 <vivienne> thanks, bye.
14:58:33 <Zakim> -kostas
15:01:59 <Vincent> bye
15:01:59 <ssirois> thank you all, see you on the list! ;)
15:02:00 <kathy> bye
15:02:02 <vivienne> vivienne has left #eval
15:02:24 <Zakim> -Detlev
15:02:26 <Zakim> -Eric
15:02:28 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
15:02:36 <Zakim> -liz
15:02:39 <Zakim> -Shadi
15:02:42 <Zakim> -Mike
15:02:44 <Zakim> -Vincent
15:02:46 <Zakim> -kathy
15:02:48 <Zakim> -dboudreau
15:02:54 <Zakim> -ssirois
15:03:15 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
15:03:22 <Zakim> -vivienne
15:03:26 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has ended
15:03:28 <Zakim> Attendees were Eric, +1.301.975.aaaa, Katie_Haritos-Shea, +1.978.261.aabb, Shadi, +49.404.318.aacc, Detlev, +1.248.342.aadd, kathy, +1.703.243.aaee, ssirois, liz, Mike,
15:03:33 <Zakim> ... +30231125aaff, +1.514.312.aagg, Tim, dboudreau, vivienne, kostas, +1.514.448.aahh, Vincent, +90700004aaii, Emmanuelle
15:17:41 <ssirois> ssirois has left #eval
16:02:56 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
16:03:00 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
16:03:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-eval-minutes.html shadi
16:36:27 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
16:36:29 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
16:36:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-eval-minutes.html shadi
16:36:41 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
17:00:58 <Zakim> Zakim has left #eval
17:35:36 <trackbot> trackbot has joined #eval
17:37:45 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
17:37:45 <RRSAgent> I see no action items