Tracking Protection Working Group Initial Teleconference

14 Sep 2011

See also: IRC log


Alan_Chappell_(Blue_Kai), Ed_Felten_(FTC), Chris_Olsen_(FTC), David_Buksbaum_(Nielsen), Dan_McKinney_(24/7_Real_Media), ____(AT&T), Ashkan_Soltani, Karl_Dubost_(Opera_Software), JC_Cannon_(Microsoft), Clay_Webster_(CBS), Harlan_Yu_(Princeton), Kevin_Trilli_(TRUSTe), Max_Rustin_(Charles_Schwab), Roy_T._Fielding_(Adobe), Matthias_Schunter_(IBM), Jonathan_Mayer_(Stanford), Center_for_Privacy_Protection_in_Germany, @@_(Future_of_Privacy_Forum), Tom_Lowenthal_(Mozilla), Vincent_Toubiana_(Alcatel-Lucent), NickDoty_(W3C), EricBlueCava, ThomasRoessler_(W3C), Aleecia



aleecia: Aleecia McDonald, co-chair, senior researcher at Mozilla, who are sponsoring my work as co-chair

tlr: Thomas Roessler, the Tech & Society Domain Leader

npdoty: Nick Doty, staff contact, and PhD student at UC Berkeley

<npdoty_> apologies for the names the scribe missed during introductions

Overview of charter, schedule, deliverables

<tlr> http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/charter.html

aleecia: tight timeline, a very aggressive schedule
... browser makers, self-regulatory groups, regulatory, etc.
... if we don't move quickly enough, our work may be irrelevant
... also want to move quickly to help out those who are implementing DNT now
... so that implementers aren't having to change regularly, and so that it's easier to understand for users
... but we also want to slow down when necessary to get work done right
... we think this is worth a little extra effort
... most immediate deadline is the first public working draft (FPWD)
... 1) Tracking Preference Expression / Do Not Track
... 2) Tracking Selection List / Tracking Protection List
... 3) Definitions and Compliance
... not looking to define "privacy" or such deep concepts
... would rather have us define more specific terms, like what will count as a first party
... work on definitions is likely to be iterative
... won't get complete consensus in two days at MIT, but can see where we do have consensus and where we don't
... jointly create recommendations; balance the values of stakeholders, be reasonable to implement, be sustainable over time
... open atmosphere, constructive criticism, sharing of values and concerns
... chairs will step in if necessary
... we can leverage previous work
... please send suggested input documents to the mailing list for the group to discuss
... also think about use cases for your organization
... as in the Princeton hum, we saw that we could all live with some broad definition with exemptions
... current list of input documents http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/#input-documents
... also think about the success criteria, which we'll discuss at MIT
... some MIT logistics, please book hotels early (surprisingly crowded)
... full days on 21st and 22nd
... we're planning on 3 or 4 f2f meetings
... second meeting at Santa Clara, CA at end of October [with TPAC]
... third meeting probably in Europe after the holidays
... if there is a meeting that you just cannot attend, we do understand, but the meetings can be very valuable
... we know there are lots of organizations still dealing with paperwork on joining the group, etc., but we won't let that get in the way of joining the meeting at MIT
... we are aware of issues with joining the mailing list due to technical difficulties, we expect this to be resolved soon
... we started exactly on time at 8am PT
... any questions? please use the IRC queue "q+"


aleecia: yes, Tracking Protection Lists; Do Not Track; the definitions that underlie those

fielding: do we expect three drafts and three editors working separately?

aleecia: yes, we're not ready to announce editors yet, but that's how we expect it to go

karl: should we have a more accessible document, to explain/introduce?

<fielding> karl, I suggest we postpone that until after the hard drafts are mostly complete

aleecia: we haven't thought of that, but it may be useful

<karl> fielding, yup didn't want to do it now, just wanted to know if there would be plans for that.

__: emphasis on DNT; to what extent would the work enable tracking across multiple services?
... for auditing purposes, I would want to track where a request has gone
... track a message, how you responded, who touched the message, decide whether to engage Do Not Track

aleecia: those are certainly the sorts of questions we'll talk about, and should start working out at MIT
... encourage you to write up the use case from your company's perspective and the user's perspective

ashkan: before the workshop or ongoing, are there attempts to aggregate various proposals and highlight key differences?
... a lot of similarities between various drafts from different stakeholders

aleecia: that's a great comment, and some academic work of my own that would be useful input

<aleecia> ACTION: aleecia to look at summary of DNT proposals [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/14-dnt-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1 - Look at summary [on Aleecia McDonald - due 2011-09-21], http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/actions/1.

___: a clarification, how we express preferences and how web clients will respond to users <choppy>

aleecia: agree that we're talking more than just the client

<ashkan> no. i was talking about various draft's in circulation (CDT, IAB, etc)

___: a clarification on the previous concern, I thought that he was talking about a user sending the DNT being able to know who had responded to that message

aleecia: I thought the earlier question was about how the enterprise could understand, rather than the user having that visibility
... so I believe we can close early, but feel free to send email
... and should be able to work out mailing list issues soon

<tl> thanks aleecia for chairing and npdoty for scribing!

tlr: in response to ashkan, the work of the group will mostly be done by the participants, so if anyone wants to help with that analysis/aggregation, this would be a great time to contribute

aleecia: +1, since many of you have been personally involved

<karl> aleecia, will this [#dnt] be the channel for all our work?

<aleecia> There's a good question - the name doesn't fit the work

<karl> adding it to my list of automatic channels to join

<aleecia> Thanks (all) for joining the call today

<tl> impressive swiftness, aleecia =]

<NMarnau> thanks aleecia for introducing the project

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: aleecia to look at summary of DNT proposals [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/14-dnt-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2011/09/15 02:36:41 $