IRC log of css on 2011-09-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:33:34 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #css
15:33:34 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/14-css-irc
15:33:41 [glazou]
Zakim, this will be Style
15:33:41 [Zakim]
ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 27 minutes
15:33:46 [glazou]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:43:06 [florian]
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15:49:47 [glazou]
if I understood correctly, all mozillians are at the Mozilla AllHands and Microsofties at BUILD...
15:50:13 [glazou]
arronei: are you MSFTies going to attend today's call?
15:50:20 [glazou]
or are you at BUILD?
15:51:23 [florian]
I have understood the same about mozz, but I didn't see anything about BUILD in the regrets mail. I am just late on catching up with my mail, or did you hear this in another channel?
15:51:53 [glazou]
well, the whole twitter universe is about the BUILD announcements
15:52:36 [florian]
I see. I don't use twitter all that much
15:52:58 [dsinger_]
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15:55:48 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
15:55:55 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:56:12 [danielweck]
danielweck has joined #css
15:56:19 [florian]
Zakim, I am [IPcaller]
15:56:19 [Zakim]
ok, florian, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
15:56:54 [Zakim]
+??P13
15:57:09 [Zakim]
+dsinger
15:57:21 [danielweck]
Zakim, ??P13 is me
15:57:21 [Zakim]
+danielweck; got it
15:57:57 [glazou]
grrr zakim does not me in
15:58:01 [dsinger_]
dsinger_ has changed the topic to: cool synchronized swimming (dsinger_)
15:58:06 [Zakim]
+??P15
15:58:12 [glazou]
Zakim, ??P15 is me
15:58:12 [Zakim]
+glazou; got it
15:59:27 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.550.aaaa
15:59:34 [nimbupani]
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15:59:45 [stearns]
Zakim, aaaa is me
15:59:45 [Zakim]
+stearns; got it
15:59:50 [dsinger_]
Zakim, who is making noise?
15:59:56 [Zakim]
+[Apple]
16:00:00 [Zakim]
dsinger_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: danielweck (85%)
16:00:01 [hober]
Zakim, Apple has me
16:00:02 [Zakim]
+hober; got it
16:00:08 [glazou]
Zakim, mute danielweck
16:00:09 [Zakim]
danielweck should now be muted
16:00:34 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
16:00:36 [arronei]
zakim, microsoft is me
16:00:36 [Zakim]
+arronei; got it
16:00:54 [bradk]
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16:01:08 [Zakim]
+ +1.650.275.aabb
16:01:24 [bradk]
zakim, aabb is me
16:01:26 [Zakim]
+bradk; got it
16:02:07 [Zakim]
+smfr
16:02:10 [smfr]
smfr has joined #css
16:02:31 [Zakim]
+fantasai
16:03:09 [Zakim]
+ +47.23.69.aacc
16:03:38 [dsinger_]
zakim, who is here?
16:03:38 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [IPcaller], danielweck (muted), dsinger (muted), glazou, stearns, [Apple], arronei, bradk, smfr, fantasai, +47.23.69.aacc
16:03:41 [Zakim]
[Apple] has hober
16:03:43 [Zakim]
On IRC I see smfr, bradk, danielweck, dsinger_, florian, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, stearns, kojiishi, miketaylr, Bert, myakura, plinss_, krijnh, anne, Martijnc, karl, arronei, lhnz,
16:03:45 [Zakim]
... plinss, gsnedders, TabAtkins, CSSWG_LogBot, hober, ed, fantasai, trackbot, shepazu, Hixie
16:04:32 [glazou]
Zakim, aacc is howcome
16:04:32 [Zakim]
+howcome; got it
16:04:59 [glazou]
bradk: sick?
16:05:07 [nimbupani]
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16:05:14 [bradk]
yeah, gettinh over bad cold
16:05:31 [Zakim]
+??P6
16:05:33 [glazou]
back
16:05:40 [kojiishi]
zakim, ??p6 is me
16:05:45 [Zakim]
+Bert
16:05:47 [Zakim]
+kojiishi; got it
16:06:08 [howcome]
howcome has joined #css
16:06:57 [glazou]
ScribeNick: arronei
16:07:18 [glazou]
http://www.doodle.com/7r9kee8rt5sqwqfv#table
16:07:31 [arronei]
glazou: f2f meeting in paris
16:07:53 [arronei]
glazou: please fill in the doodle
16:08:06 [cesar]
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16:08:09 [arronei]
glazou: need a good head count
16:08:10 [alexmog]
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16:08:16 [Zakim]
+SteveZ
16:08:52 [Zakim]
+ +569003aadd
16:09:33 [arronei]
glazou: the best date for the f2f in Paris is between the 6th and 8th of Feb
16:10:04 [dsinger_]
Week if 23rd is out I assume?
16:10:09 [glazou]
yes
16:10:17 [Zakim]
-arronei
16:10:18 [dsinger_]
S/if/of/
16:10:37 [arronei]
ack I just lost my phone
16:10:40 [Bert]
(Doodle's interface used to be fine, but they seem to have changed. I can't see the results :-( I *think* I filled the survey last week... Time to switch to Dudle?)
16:10:41 [glazou]
arronei: waiting for you
16:10:42 [Zakim]
-dsinger
16:10:45 [arronei]
Trying to dail in again
16:11:00 [dsinger_]
Bother. 3gpp and mpeg the two doodle weeks
16:11:10 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.246.aaee
16:11:20 [szilles]
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16:11:34 [glazou]
Zakim, aaee is alexmog
16:11:34 [Zakim]
+alexmog; got it
16:11:40 [Zakim]
+dsinger
16:11:51 [glazou]
ScribeNick: glazou
16:12:10 [glazou]
howcome: issue is how margin collapsing works on spanner
16:12:14 [Zakim]
+Andrew_Kirkpatrick
16:12:21 [glazou]
… current spec in CR does not say anything about that
16:12:29 [glazou]
… I suggest to add language for that
16:12:48 [glazou]
… it should happen if two consecutive spanning elements but not with other elements
16:12:56 [glazou]
… spanning lets are usually wider
16:13:05 [glazou]
… collapsing should be messy
16:13:15 [arronei]
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16:13:17 [glazou]
… http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Aug/0457.html
16:13:26 [glazou]
arronei: I'm minuting
16:13:37 [glazou]
fantasai: please read it
16:13:41 [glazou]
howcome reads
16:13:43 [arronei]
well I was my machine rebooted on me
16:13:53 [glazou]
fantasai: seems ok
16:14:35 [glazou]
howcome: two h elements, they should collapse
16:14:52 [glazou]
alexmog: spanning elements are kind of like floats
16:15:01 [glazou]
alexmog: floats don't collapse margins
16:15:05 [glazou]
florian: I see it differently
16:15:27 [glazou]
florian: you intend things to collapse when there is only 1 column
16:15:50 [glazou]
florian: they should collapse then
16:15:55 [glazou]
howcome: yep, least surprise
16:16:07 [glazou]
howcome: but what will happen column-span integer value
16:16:40 [glazou]
alexmog: we are trying to optimize for cases that are rare
16:16:51 [glazou]
alexmog: use cases that don't really exist
16:16:59 [Zakim]
-bradk
16:17:08 [glazou]
alexmog: make sure elements don't have margins ?
16:17:48 [glazou]
howcome: what if you column span all and margin 10em, does not look like it multicolor at all ; no collapsing then?
16:18:02 [glazou]
howcome: very natural to have collapsing happen then
16:18:12 [glazou]
… not really insisting on this edge case
16:18:19 [Bert]
(Typical case in favor of collapsing: <div><h1><h2.subtitle><p>...</div> with 'div {columns: 20em} h1, h2 {span: all}')
16:18:28 [glazou]
fantasai: I agree with howcome but would make more sense to have them collapse
16:18:33 [glazou]
… two things make sense to me
16:18:37 [Zakim]
+bradk
16:18:42 [glazou]
… be a formatting context root
16:19:22 [glazou]
… take all consecutive lets that have same column span value and wrap them in anon formatting context root and in that margins collapse
16:19:50 [Bert]
s/lets/elements/
16:19:51 [glazou]
.. children would collapse margin with column spanning parent
16:20:37 [glazou]
howcome: reasonable but what if column span all or one let and 2 on next
16:20:55 [Bert]
s/column-span integer/if column-span has integer/
16:21:13 [glazou]
howcome: fine solution to the problem
16:21:23 [glazou]
… but I would like to have alexmog with me on that
16:21:32 [glazou]
… msft has not done it that way
16:21:46 [glazou]
alexmog: I did not have a chance to think about it before
16:21:56 [glazou]
… if we can avoid margin collapsing it would be nice here
16:22:02 [Zakim]
-bradk
16:22:03 [glazou]
… no decision yet
16:22:08 [glazou]
howcome: need a week to review it?
16:22:19 [glazou]
alexmog: need to get in touch with implementors
16:22:24 [glazou]
howcome: fine
16:22:39 [glazou]
glazou: next week's agenda?
16:23:00 [glazou]
stevez: technical question
16:23:03 [Zakim]
+bradk
16:23:37 [dsinger]
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16:23:37 [glazou]
fantasai: default value of column-span?
16:23:42 [glazou]
Bert: none
16:23:44 [glazou]
howcome: yeah
16:23:50 [glazou]
howcome: used to be 1 but changed
16:23:57 [Zakim]
-dsinger
16:23:59 [Zakim]
+[Apple.a]
16:24:11 [dsinger]
zakim, [apple.a] has dsinger
16:24:12 [Zakim]
+dsinger; got it
16:24:35 [florian]
steve's question was: where there is only 1 column, do spaning elements' margin collapse with non spanning ones? answer was no.
16:25:01 [Zakim]
-fantasai
16:25:08 [glazou]
glazou: Shepherd, please send feedback
16:25:23 [glazou]
glazou: checklist for WD publications
16:25:26 [glazou]
glazou: comments?
16:25:27 [Bert]
(I wonder if that means that we can replace 'overflow: auto' with 'column-span: all' now in order to contain child floats in the element's height...)
16:25:43 [glazou]
http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/publish
16:25:50 [glazou]
Bert: comment about the blog
16:25:57 [glazou]
Bert: some people don't have a blog account
16:25:57 [arronei]
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16:26:09 [glazou]
Bert: new blog system next week, all accounts will be renewed
16:26:22 [glazou]
Bert: if you don't have an account now, you'll have one next week
16:26:39 [Zakim]
+fantasai
16:26:50 [glazou]
Bert: if you have no account and have something to blog about, please wait until next week and the new system
16:26:56 [glazou]
Bert: termporary state...
16:27:58 [glazou]
fantasai: Anton as IE?
16:28:07 [glazou]
glazou: Anton joined a few days ago as IE
16:28:35 [Zakim]
-[Apple.a]
16:28:37 [Zakim]
-danielweck
16:28:38 [Zakim]
-glazou
16:28:38 [Zakim]
-howcome
16:28:39 [Zakim]
-kojiishi
16:28:39 [Zakim]
-fantasai
16:28:40 [Zakim]
-stearns
16:28:40 [Zakim]
-[Apple]
16:28:42 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
16:28:44 [Zakim]
- +569003aadd
16:28:44 [glazou]
short meeting, fantasai to release the minutes
16:28:46 [Zakim]
-Andrew_Kirkpatrick
16:28:48 [Zakim]
-alexmog
16:28:50 [Zakim]
-smfr
16:28:52 [Zakim]
-bradk
16:28:54 [Zakim]
-Bert
16:29:04 [cesar]
zakim, aadd is me
16:29:04 [Zakim]
sorry, cesar, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
16:29:17 [Zakim]
-SteveZ
16:29:18 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
16:29:20 [Zakim]
Attendees were [IPcaller], dsinger, danielweck, glazou, +1.206.550.aaaa, stearns, hober, arronei, +1.650.275.aabb, bradk, smfr, fantasai, +47.23.69.aacc, howcome, Bert, kojiishi,
16:29:23 [Zakim]
... SteveZ, +569003aadd, +1.425.246.aaee, alexmog, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, [Apple]
16:29:34 [florian]
florian has left #css
16:30:28 [cesar]
zakim, +569003aadd is me
16:30:28 [Zakim]
sorry, cesar, I do not recognize a party named '+569003aadd'
16:46:13 [karl]
Have you compiled a timeline of the CSS properties across spec versions
17:04:58 [nimbupani]
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