IRC log of prov on 2011-09-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:34:25 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #prov
14:34:25 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:34:27 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:34:27 [Zakim]
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14:34:29 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
14:34:29 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:34:30 [trackbot]
Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:34:30 [trackbot]
Date: 08 September 2011
14:34:35 [Luc]
Zakim, this will be PROV
14:34:36 [Zakim]
ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 26 minutes
14:34:49 [Luc]
14:34:57 [Luc]
Chair: Luc Moreau
14:35:02 [Luc]
Scribe: Paolo Missier
14:35:16 [Luc]
Topic: Admin
14:41:54 [satya]
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14:48:43 [paolo]
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14:53:51 [Zakim]
SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
14:53:58 [Zakim]
14:54:05 [paolo]
zakim, ??P3 is me
14:54:05 [Zakim]
+paolo; got it
14:55:32 [Curt]
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14:55:55 [Zakim]
+ +1.443.987.aaaa
14:56:12 [Curt]
zakim, +1.443.987.aaaa is me
14:56:12 [Zakim]
+Curt; got it
14:56:17 [Yogesh]
Yogesh has joined #prov
14:56:22 [Zakim]
14:57:40 [Zakim]
+ +1.540.449.aabb
14:58:01 [Yogesh]
zakim, +1.540 is me
14:58:03 [Zakim]
+Yogesh; got it
14:58:06 [Zakim]
+ +44.789.470.aacc
14:58:07 [Luc]
@paolo, everything is set up for you, thanks for scribing
14:58:16 [paolo]
14:58:18 [stain]
Zakim, +44.789.470.aacc is me
14:58:18 [Zakim]
+stain; got it
14:58:25 [stain]
(as I told you last week)
14:59:37 [Vinh]
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15:00:11 [Zakim]
+ +1.315.723.aadd
15:00:19 [tlebo]
tlebo has joined #prov
15:00:31 [Zakim]
+ +1.937.343.aaee
15:00:35 [tlebo]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see paolo, Curt, Luc, Yogesh, stain, +1.315.723.aadd, +1.937.343.aaee
15:00:45 [Vinh]
zakim, +1.937.343.aaee is me
15:00:48 [smiles]
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15:00:51 [tlebo]
zakim, I am aadd
15:00:54 [Zakim]
+Vinh; got it
15:00:59 [stain]
perhaps wait 1 more minute, I was thrown off the conference bridge twice
15:01:08 [Zakim]
+tlebo; got it
15:01:19 [tlebo]
zakim, +1.315.723.aadd is me
15:01:25 [stain]
Zakim, who is noisy?
15:01:46 [Zakim]
sorry, tlebo, I do not recognize a party named '+1.315.723.aadd'
15:01:48 [Zakim]
15:01:56 [MacTed]
Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software
15:01:58 [Zakim]
15:02:00 [paolo]
Stian, how about sip? works fine for me
15:02:04 [MacTed]
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:02:05 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
15:02:08 [Zakim]
stain, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: paolo (34%), Kingsley_Idehen (15%), Luc (43%)
15:02:22 [Edoardo]
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15:02:32 [Zakim]
+OpenLink_Software; got it
15:02:33 [stain]
paolo: I got in the third time nicely. :-) Using Skype. It threw me out after saying hello..
15:02:37 [MacTed]
MacTed has changed the topic to: Provenance WG -- -- 2011-09-08 telecon agenda: (MacTed)
15:02:38 [Zakim]
15:02:39 [YolandaGil]
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15:02:55 [Lena]
Lena has joined #prov
15:02:56 [Zakim]
+MacTed; got it
15:03:02 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
15:03:09 [Zakim]
15:03:23 [Luc]
15:03:28 [Zakim]
15:03:28 [Luc]
PROPOSED to accept the minutes of Sep 01 telecon
15:03:28 [paolo]
topic: admin
15:03:32 [jcheney]
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15:03:34 [Zakim]
15:03:42 [stain]
15:03:43 [Curt]
15:03:45 [paolo]
15:03:47 [Edoardo]
15:03:48 [Lena]
15:03:53 [tlebo]
15:03:59 [smiles]
15:04:00 [Zakim]
15:04:11 [Luc]
RESOLVED the minutes of Sep 01 telecon
15:04:14 [jcheney]
zakim, ??P0 is me
15:04:24 [zednik]
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15:04:30 [Luc]
TOPIC: Named graphs requirements
15:04:30 [dcorsar]
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15:04:38 [paolo]
topic: Named graphs requirements
15:04:40 [Luc]
15:04:48 [Zakim]
15:04:56 [Zakim]
+jcheney; got it
15:04:58 [Zakim]
15:05:29 [Luc]
15:05:31 [Zakim]
+ +1.518.633.aaff
15:05:38 [stain]
Satya joined at 15:41 - but not on phone it seems
15:05:48 [Zakim]
+ +1.706.461.aagg
15:05:53 [YolandaGil]
15:05:54 [paolo]
no comments on requirements
15:05:59 [JimMcCusker]
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15:06:10 [MacTed]
Zakim, who's here?
15:06:10 [Zakim]
On the phone I see paolo, Curt, Luc, Yogesh, stain, tlebo, Vinh, MacTed (muted), ??P5, ??P34, ??P55, [ISI], Sandro, jcheney, ??P9, ??P10, +1.518.633.aaff, +1.706.461.aagg
15:06:14 [Zakim]
On IRC I see JimMcCusker, dcorsar, zednik, jcheney, Lena, YolandaGil, Edoardo, smiles, tlebo, Vinh, Yogesh, Curt, paolo, satya, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain,
15:06:16 [Zakim]
... sandro
15:06:23 [Luc]
15:06:25 [paolo]
satya: reqs are completed, wiki page updated as of yesterday
15:06:28 [YolandaGil]
There are requirements from the XG that were written at:
15:07:05 [Zakim]
15:07:19 [stain]
paolo, are you scribing..?
15:07:38 [paolo]
yolanda: mentions reqs from the XG work, and those do not seem to have been included in the current iwki page
15:08:11 [paolo]
Luc: Yolanda invited to update the reqs page with content from the XG doc
15:08:14 [Luc]
15:08:17 [Luc]
ack yola
15:08:25 [Luc]
Topic: name for the standard
15:08:31 [paolo]
topic: Name for the standard
15:08:55 [paolo]
Luc: shortlist of 3 identified last week
15:09:09 [paolo]
Luc: are there negative blockers amongst those?
15:09:20 [Luc]
15:09:30 [jcheney]
15:09:37 [YolandaGil]
I know PIF as The Process Interchange Format
15:09:47 [stain]
that's a kind of blocker, yes
15:10:21 [tlebo]
"This page was modified last by Jintae Lee on Nov. 17 '99 "
15:10:33 [stain]
just realised: PAST is difficult to Google
15:10:35 [sandro]
"PLEASE NOTE: The PIF Project has been merged with the PSL (Process Specification Language) Project at NIST."
15:11:05 [jorn]
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15:11:17 [paolo]
James: someone (Deb?) proposed avoiding names that are existing words, because it makes it harder to search for them
15:11:19 [MacTed]
PIL sounds like a pill, which often has negative connotation. has 130MM results on Google.
15:11:19 [MacTed]
PIF is a scoffing sound in American English, if not elsewhere. has 18MM results on Google.
15:11:19 [MacTed]
PAST is a common word, which is itself problematic...
15:11:22 [tlebo]
difficulty to search for the standard, e.g. "past" is already a word.
15:11:40 [Zakim]
15:11:48 [jorn]
zakim, ??p63 is me
15:11:48 [Zakim]
+jorn; got it
15:11:48 [JimMcCusker]
PAS, then?
15:11:54 [stain]
(but PASTm, PASTl etc. would be quite unique)
15:12:03 [stain]
JimMcCusker: french word
15:12:12 [JimMcCusker]
15:12:27 [MacTed]
15:12:27 [MacTed]
15:12:27 [MacTed]
15:12:39 [stain]
yes, w3 has very high google rating
15:12:42 [paolo]
Tim: Deb concerned that existing words would make google searches less effective
15:12:47 [Luc]
15:12:50 [Luc]
ack jch
15:13:15 [smiles]
15:13:19 [paolo]
satya: neg blocker for PIL: what we have is more than just a language
15:13:19 [stain]
sandro, agree, and "prov:" is a good prefix as well
15:13:23 [stain]
prov:Entity for instance
15:13:31 [MacTed]
I also prefer PROV overall...
15:13:35 [MacTed]
Zakim, unmute me
15:13:35 [Zakim]
MacTed should no longer be muted
15:13:37 [JimMcCusker]
What does PROV expand to?
15:13:47 [sandro]
15:13:53 [stain]
JimMcCusker, that's the problem! But we could say Provenance Standard
15:14:11 [paolo]
Ted: all 3 of them have overlaps with existing names/acronyms. large number of results on google for all of them
15:14:16 [zednik]
I also like PROV
15:14:26 [Luc]
15:14:28 [paolo]
Ted: name needs not be an acronym
15:14:30 [tlebo]
google; Prov (TM) Exam services
15:14:30 [zednik]
PROVenance standard?
15:14:33 [stain]
+1 that name does not need to be an acronym
15:14:41 [paolo]
+1 for Ted -- no need to agonize over acronyms
15:14:42 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
15:14:42 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
15:14:43 [JimMcCusker]
PROvenance Vocabulary (with apologies to Olaf)
15:15:08 [stain]
take the red PIL
15:15:12 [Luc]
15:15:16 [MacTed]
of course... PROV gets 93MM Google results
15:15:17 [paolo]
Simon: "L" can stand for smt else than 'language" if we like the acronym
15:15:22 [smiles]
ack smiles
15:15:23 [JimMcCusker]
15:15:44 [paolo]
15:15:48 [JimMcCusker]
15:16:11 [Luc]
ack pao
15:16:21 [Luc]
15:16:45 [stain]
perhaps the problem is that we voted for both short and long name at the same time.
15:17:30 [stain]
For instane WSDL is fairly recognizable on the internets - does not mean anything on its own, and pronounciation is something you learn at conferences
15:17:59 [sandro]
15:18:16 [Luc]
ack san
15:18:35 [tlebo]
let's hire some marketers :-)
15:18:37 [paolo]
JimMcCusker would have voted for PROV
15:19:02 [sandro]
sandro: suggests doing +/- on each one.
15:19:20 [MacTed]
ProvVoc - 21 results on Google. not an acronym.
15:19:21 [MacTed]
15:19:30 [MacTed]
pronounced "provoke"
15:19:40 [Luc]
15:19:53 [sandro]
i'm sure we'll get to the top of google with PIF or PROV, but not PAST, maybe not PIL.
15:19:58 [paolo]
Luc: how do we vote
15:20:11 [Luc]
15:20:17 [paolo]
sandro: vote for/against until we get somewhere -- min the negatives
15:20:32 [Luc]
Votes for PIL
15:20:36 [sandro]
(and PIV has some real strong negatives.)
15:20:42 [JimMcCusker]
15:20:43 [tlebo]
15:20:45 [Lena]
15:20:46 [Edoardo]
15:20:46 [Curt]
15:20:47 [MacTed]
15:20:47 [dcorsar]
15:20:48 [Yogesh]
15:20:48 [stain]
15:20:49 [smiles]
15:20:49 [sandro]
15:20:53 [paolo]
15:20:53 [jorn]
15:20:56 [zednik]
15:21:01 [YolandaGil]
15:21:02 [paolo]
satya: -1
15:21:15 [Luc]
Votes for PAST
15:21:21 [paolo]
15:21:21 [sandro]
-1 (google problems)
15:21:22 [tlebo]
15:21:22 [YolandaGil]
15:21:22 [smiles]
15:21:23 [Curt]
15:21:23 [Yogesh]
15:21:23 [stain]
15:21:25 [JimMcCusker]
15:21:26 [zednik]
15:21:27 [Edoardo]
15:21:28 [jcheney]
-1 (word)
15:21:28 [Lena]
15:21:30 [dcorsar]
15:21:31 [MacTed]
15:21:33 [jorn]
15:21:48 [Luc]
Votes for PIF
15:21:51 [JimMcCusker]
15:21:53 [Yogesh]
15:21:53 [YolandaGil]
15:21:54 [smiles]
15:21:54 [stain]
15:21:55 [tlebo]
15:21:56 [zednik]
15:21:58 [dcorsar]
15:21:59 [paolo]
satya: +1
15:22:00 [Curt]
15:22:01 [Lena]
15:22:01 [sandro]
15:22:01 [Edoardo]
15:22:02 [jorn]
15:22:06 [MacTed]
15:22:07 [paolo]
15:22:09 [jcheney]
15:22:22 [Luc]
Votes for PROV
15:22:25 [JimMcCusker]
15:22:26 [sandro]
15:22:26 [jorn]
15:22:27 [stain]
15:22:27 [Vinh]
15:22:27 [zednik]
15:22:27 [Curt]
15:22:28 [smiles]
15:22:31 [Lena]
15:22:32 [Yogesh]
15:22:33 [jcheney]
15:22:35 [MacTed]
15:22:36 [dcorsar]
15:22:36 [Zakim]
+ +1.509.554.aahh
15:22:36 [YolandaGil]
15:22:38 [paolo]
15:22:39 [tlebo]
15:22:51 [stain]
15:23:11 [paolo]
Luc: strong support for PROV
15:23:15 [Luc]
15:23:33 [paolo]
Luc: concern: mixup with providence...
15:23:37 [Luc]
15:23:39 [jorn]
maybe we should call it PROV IL?
15:23:50 [stain]
I don't get the providence mixup
15:23:51 [YolandaGil]
I don't understand what is the problem with providence
15:24:03 [stain]
would that not be the problem with any of the P* names?
15:24:18 [JimMcCusker]
Yeah, I use that as a joke when I give provenance talks...
15:24:29 [YolandaGil]
I don't see a problem, Luc!
15:24:49 [MacTed]
jorn - IL stands for?
15:25:03 [jorn]
Interchange Language :)
15:25:04 [paolo]
Luc: vote on PROV alone to see if there any negs
15:25:34 [stain]
what kind of trademark does have for 'prov' ?
15:25:36 [paolo]
Luc: how would this name be used in documents?
15:25:43 [paolo]
15:25:49 [JimMcCusker]
foobar a prov:Entity
15:26:10 [jorn]
15:26:14 [tlebo]
Provenance Description and Interchange Framework?
15:26:20 [stain]
+1 paolo
15:26:33 [sandro]
"The Prov Data Model"
15:26:38 [sandro]
"The Prov Data Model for Provenance Interchange"
15:26:43 [Luc]
15:26:44 [paolo]
15:27:00 [Zakim]
15:27:16 [paolo]
Luc: Simon still has a formal objection?
15:27:18 [Zakim]
15:27:37 [Zakim]
+ +1.915.747.aaii
15:27:43 [jorn]
Zakim: ??p19 is me
15:27:45 [Paulo]
Paulo has joined #prov
15:27:48 [stain]
"Provenance Rules On VVeb"
15:27:51 [paolo]
smiles: mostly on aesthetic grounds...
15:27:57 [jorn]
Zakim, ??p19 is me
15:27:57 [Zakim]
+jorn; got it
15:28:06 [paolo]
smiles: wouldn't formally object though
15:28:29 [jorn]
15:28:32 [JimMcCusker]
15:28:34 [stain]
15:28:34 [MacTed]
15:28:35 [smiles]
15:28:36 [paolo]
action to emails the WG announcing that PROV is the proposed name
15:28:36 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - to
15:28:41 [zednik]
15:29:05 [Luc]
TOPIC: Primer Document
15:29:15 [Luc]
15:29:23 [stain] should not be in conflict - "Education and entertainment"
15:29:29 [stain]
(how exams are entertainment is beyond me)
15:29:53 [paolo]
smiles: primer should be released alongside the model doc
15:30:04 [paolo]
smiles: would generate better feedback to us
15:30:31 [paolo]
smiles: as the model is still evolving, the primer would not be complete at the time of release
15:30:54 [Zakim]
15:31:10 [Luc]
15:31:17 [paolo]
smiles: would be good to have a "webby" example, doc-based like the jou example, to align well with the W3C setting where the doc belongs
15:31:22 [MacTed]
15:31:27 [MacTed]
Zakim, unmute me
15:31:27 [Zakim]
MacTed should no longer be muted
15:32:02 [paolo]
ted: a "webby" example is good, but important also to have a completely non-webby example. Science domains, or others
15:32:16 [Luc]
15:32:28 [Luc]
ack mac
15:32:33 [stain]
smiles' proposal sounds reasonable, agree to not restrict to data journalism example
15:32:39 [paolo]
smiles: ok, but the initial release needs to appeal to people who will provide early feedback
15:32:39 [zednik]
15:33:05 [paolo]
ted: agree, but that puts people in the web mindset and that may form a bias
15:33:31 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
15:33:32 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
15:33:39 [Zakim]
+ +1.216.368.aajj
15:33:42 [Zakim]
- +1.706.461.aagg
15:33:52 [zednik]
15:33:53 [Luc]
15:34:03 [ericstephan]
ericstephan has joined #prov
15:34:04 [paolo]
Stephan: agree with Ted: danger to be perceived as provenance /of/ the web rather than /on/ the web
15:34:13 [stain]
+1 ted - some simple science (high school chemistry experiment?) example should be good
15:34:20 [satya]
zakim, +1.216.368.aajj is me
15:34:20 [Zakim]
+satya; got it
15:34:52 [zednik]
how about a simple scenario of the provenance of a physical object? example from library community?
15:34:53 [paolo]
Luc: primer not starte yet. too ambitious to release by the end of month? some authors are busy on all other docs at the same time
15:35:40 [satya]
15:35:40 [paolo]
smiles: yes, timing is tight. delayed release is a plausible option
15:35:41 [Zakim]
+ +1.832.386.aakk
15:36:04 [paolo]
Luc @Sandro: can docs be released without primer?
15:36:34 [paolo]
sandro: early drafts of model docs without primer is fine if for limited time
15:36:42 [paolo]
15:36:43 [stain]
what if we do some third party blog posts or something?
15:36:50 [Luc]
15:36:57 [ericP]
ericP has joined #prov
15:37:01 [Luc]
ack sat
15:37:08 [Zakim]
- +1.509.554.aahh
15:38:19 [stain]
paolo: that people who would be writing the primer can instead focus on filling in a complete example and challenge our model
15:38:33 [paolo]
Luc: would be nice to see the ASN in use in the example
15:39:17 [paolo]
smiles: primer needs to be understandeable -- ASN may possibly make it harder?
15:39:32 [Zakim]
+ +1.509.554.aall
15:39:58 [paolo]
smiles: there prior comments on going bottom up with small examples rather than a large big one example from the start
15:40:30 [paolo]
15:40:41 [Luc]
ack pao
15:41:57 [stain]
I like the flow of how instance how starts very simple
15:41:59 [Lena]
15:42:01 [YolandaGil]
I am interested Luc
15:42:05 [stain]
I would not mind joining
15:42:09 [satya]
after the release of the model document?
15:42:15 [paolo]
Luc: who would contribute to the primer?
15:42:20 [tlebo]
15:42:24 [satya]
15:42:25 [paolo]
Paolo after model / ontology doc
15:42:25 [MacTed]
+1 with limited available time
15:42:25 [zednik]
I am willing to contribute (+1)
15:42:38 [stain]
should not have more than say 3 authors
15:42:44 [ericstephan]
+1 after the connection informal report
15:42:45 [Zakim]
15:42:57 [Zakim]
15:43:03 [jorn]
zakim, ??p19 is me
15:43:03 [Zakim]
+jorn; got it
15:43:03 [paolo]
@stian: few editors, but no hard limit on authors...?
15:43:13 [stain]
15:43:26 [paolo]
smiles: will put a structure up on the wiki then contact interested people
15:43:40 [tlebo]
The diagrams at are very nice
15:43:52 [Luc]
topic: First Public Working Drafts
15:44:23 [paolo]
Luc @sandro: formal reqs prior to releasing docs as drafts:?
15:45:02 [paolo]
sandro: there's a page for that, but: need to get a persistent URL from W3C
15:45:04 [satya]
@Tim: agree, can we try to use similar diagram format for the formal model draft?
15:45:38 [paolo]
sandro: doc needs to be validated for format / HTML -- respec should make that easy
15:45:44 [paolo]
luc: any editorial control?
15:45:45 [stain]
I raised the question on namespace as well for the ontology - do we know what would make sense for now?
15:46:35 [paolo]
sandro: status of specs: a very briefly explanation of what the draft is about
15:46:58 [tlebo]
@satya: very much so. I'll use it to base the diagrams I am doing for model documetn
15:47:07 [paolo]
Sandro: need a group resolution to publish, and need to point to it when requesting release
15:48:13 [sandro]
Here's the check list for publication:
15:49:31 [Lena]
15:50:03 [paolo]
Paolo: release timetable as agreed: Sept 16th then Sept 29 for approval
15:50:24 [paolo]
satya: requesting sept 19th, then feedback cycle, then Sept 29th for approval
15:50:35 [paolo]
15:50:41 [Luc]
ack len
15:51:09 [paolo]
Lena: should we include security elements (authz) in the model/ontology?
15:51:28 [paolo]
Lena: scope of model should be clear, i.e., authz out of scope
15:51:34 [smiles]
15:51:47 [tlebo]
lena: conneg and authorization; survey results show people confuse provenance and authorization
15:51:54 [Luc]
ack pao
15:53:40 [Luc]
ack sm
15:54:43 [paolo]
smiles @lena: the authz issue is on whether we trust what happened in the past, may not be out of scope after all
15:54:54 [satya]
15:55:17 [paolo]
luc: first working draft offers a first look at our work, so this can be raised as a missing element that should be added
15:55:31 [Luc]
ack satya
15:55:36 [paolo]
satya: important not to go into the derivation part of provenance in this group
15:55:55 [Luc]
Topic: Formal Model document
15:56:49 [paolo]
satya: updates will be made this week, only a few people attended previous meeting.
15:56:56 [tlebo]
15:57:06 [paolo]
satya: entailments and extension mechanisms will be addressed next
15:57:27 [tlebo]
(should Stian work from the main branch in mercuruial?)
15:57:34 [paolo]
satya: soliciting feedback at this stage, as Stian provided.
15:57:37 [Luc]
ack tl
15:57:52 [paolo]
satya: need to get the RDF encoding for the file crime scenario right as it is normative
15:58:25 [Zakim]
15:58:30 [stain]
I just asked was if I should edit directly on the head branch or a sepearate feature branch
15:58:31 [satya]
15:59:06 [paolo]
15:59:24 [Luc]
ack paol
15:59:38 [satya]
Monday US 12pm ET
16:00:05 [tlebo]
@stain, I think that is a weak "yes", join the head branch.
16:00:24 [paolo]
satya: that was the time for the regular ontology call (skype)
16:00:59 [Zakim]
16:01:10 [paolo]
satya: no complete agreement on how to express entities.
16:01:45 [Zakim]
16:01:50 [paolo]
what is the id criteria to distinguish entities? (ref to the cars example)
16:03:17 [paolo]
satya: what are the distinguishing attributes for different entities that refer to the same characterized thing
16:03:45 [Zakim]
16:04:19 [paolo]
luc: there may be different perspectives about the "same car". each of them is asserted as an entity
16:04:38 [MacTed]
16:05:30 [paolo]
paolo @satya: long ago the URI used to be called a "surrogate key"...
16:05:39 [Zakim]
- +1.915.747.aaii
16:05:57 [Zakim]
- +1.832.386.aakk
16:06:10 [MacTed]
Zakim, unmute me
16:06:10 [Zakim]
MacTed should no longer be muted
16:06:12 [MacTed]
16:07:01 [Zakim]
16:07:10 [JimMcCusker]
16:07:25 [Zakim]
+ +1.518.633.aamm
16:09:13 [Luc]
ack mac
16:09:23 [Luc]
ack jim
16:09:56 [stain]
satya, I'll push my changes to the OWL file if that's OK. I've fixed the verbs and labels.
16:10:06 [stain]
not touched the HTML but can do a search replace
16:10:10 [Zakim]
16:10:12 [satya]
@Stian, thanks!
16:10:40 [Luc]
16:11:15 [stain]
satya: do you agree on making hadParticipant super-property of used and wasControlledBy ?
16:11:32 [paolo]
luc @smiles: would the car example be suitable for the primar?
16:12:02 [paolo]
smiles: potentially yes, to explain what we mean by entity etc, identifying attributes, etc.
16:12:06 [Luc]
16:12:06 [stain]
satya: that does not cover the case of compliments - some OWL expert can figure that out
16:12:09 [satya]
@Stian: I had asserted that earlier, but some members want further discussion about it - so they are not related
16:12:21 [Zakim]
16:12:22 [Zakim]
16:12:22 [Zakim]
16:12:24 [Zakim]
- +1.509.554.aall
16:12:24 [Zakim]
16:12:25 [Zakim]
16:12:25 [Zakim]
16:12:26 [Zakim]
16:12:30 [Zakim]
16:12:32 [Zakim]
16:12:34 [Luc]
paolo, i will do the necessary incantation here
16:12:39 [paolo]
ok thanks
16:12:41 [stain]
@Satya - ok, will leave that out
16:12:41 [Zakim]
16:12:42 [stain]
16:12:44 [Luc]
thanks for scribing
16:12:46 [Zakim]
- +1.518.633.aamm
16:12:47 [Zakim]
16:12:58 [ericstephan]
16:12:58 [Zakim]
16:13:02 [Luc]
rrsagent, set log public
16:13:11 [Luc]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:13:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Luc
16:13:12 [ericstephan]
ericstephan has left #prov
16:13:19 [Luc]
trackbot, end telcon
16:13:19 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
16:13:19 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been paolo, Curt, Luc, +1.540.449.aabb, Yogesh, stain, +1.315.723.aadd, Vinh, tlebo, MacTed, [ISI], Sandro, jcheney, +1.518.633.aaff,
16:13:20 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:13:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
16:13:21 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
16:13:21 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items
16:13:22 [Zakim]
... +1.706.461.aagg, jorn, +1.509.554.aahh, +1.915.747.aaii, satya, +1.832.386.aakk, +1.509.554.aall, +1.518.633.aamm