15:00:42 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y 15:00:42 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-html-a11y-irc 15:00:44 RRSAgent, make logs world 15:00:46 Zakim, this will be 2119 15:00:47 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 15:00:47 Date: 08 September 2011 15:00:50 Zakim has joined #html-a11y 15:00:58 zakim, this is 2119 15:01:16 ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM 15:01:34 zakim, who's on the phone? 15:01:34 janina has joined #html-a11y 15:01:50 zakim, this is 2119 15:01:55 zakim, who's on the phone? 15:01:56 +Michael_Cooper 15:02:06 On the phone I see Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper 15:02:20 MichaelC, this was already WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM 15:02:24 ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM 15:02:30 On the phone I see Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper 15:02:45 phone issues, but on my way 15:04:34 regrets: Laura_Carlson, Joshue_O_Connor, Marco_Ranon 15:04:46 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Sep/0033.html 15:05:00 +Judy 15:05:13 +??P35 15:05:21 Grrr... need to restart my phone. 15:05:26 -??P35 15:05:27 will join ASAP 15:05:41 JF, Janina is having similar issues! 15:05:53 Sorry all. I'm working on it. 15:06:04 judy_alt has joined #html-a11y 15:06:08 I enter code to join meeting, but zakim can't "hear" the tone/code 15:06:22 +??P57 15:06:45 zakim, ??P57 is Janina_Sajka 15:06:45 +Janina_Sajka; got it 15:07:32 +??P60 15:07:53 zakim, ??P60 is Léonie_Watson 15:07:53 +Léonie_Watson; got it 15:08:58 Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon 15:08:58 Chair: Janina_Sajka 15:08:58 agenda: this 15:08:58 agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List 15:08:58 agenda+ Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; Canvas; Text; Media; 15:08:58 agenda+ Other Business 15:09:01 agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open 15:09:03 agenda+ Identify Scribe for 1 September http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List 15:09:05 agenda+ be done 15:09:06 15:09:15 scribe: LeonieWatson 15:09:15 + +1.650.468.aaaa 15:09:27 zakim, aaaa is JF 15:09:27 +JF; got it 15:10:20 zakim, who's here? 15:10:20 On the phone I see Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Judy, Janina_Sajka, Léonie_Watson, JF 15:10:23 On IRC I see judy_alt, janina, Zakim, RRSAgent, LeonieWatson, JF, richardschwerdtfe, MichaelC, davidb, MikeSmith, trackbot, [tm] 15:11:09 zakim, take up agendum 1 15:11:09 agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina] 15:11:36 zakim, take up agendum 2 15:11:36 agendum 2. "Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; Canvas; Text; Media;" taken up [from janina] 15:12:22 Topic: Bug triage update 15:12:32 scribe: Rich 15:13:01 Leonie: we have made some progress on keywords being tagged. We are about 70% of the way through and will finish review next week 15:13:16 Leonie: After this we will look at the bigger list of bugs 15:13:32 Leonie: We will then get them prioritized 15:13:45 Leonie: We can get a couple of bugs we are reviewing. .... 15:14:01 janina: you wanted to bring questions to this meeting to get wider opinion? 15:14:23 Leonie: I don't have access to the minutes from Tuesday so perhaps next week. Perhaps, Michael does? 15:15:11 Topic: bug 13368 15:15:25 Leonie: this needs to be tracked 15:15:28 q+ 15:15:54 janina: is this the same question we are raising from the text sub team to ask the group to reconsider the decision on alt? 15:16:09 JF: this does not have to do with meta generator 15:16:20 Leonie: this has more to do with generated content 15:16:47 JF: my understanding is that content generated by CSS is passed through the dom and sent to screen readers 15:17:38 JF: the problem, as I see it, is that using the before and after pseudo selectors is with putting an image on the screen. If you put in a PDF in a content management system an image is generated without alt text 15:17:47 q? 15:17:51 ack j 15:17:53 JF: If I were to generated text it would be read by a screen reader 15:18:01 JF: I feel this is a concern 15:18:20 janina: It seems that by how you describe it ... 15:18:35 Leonie: The bug triage team felt this was a problem to track 15:19:07 JF: I don't mind taking this bug on. My concern is that this was not reviewed by PF 15:19:31 JF: someone told me this was how it was used to be 15:20:06 Rich: we were talking about sprites for high contrast mode but I don't recall this one being discussed 15:20:26 Michael: Benjamin Hawkes Louis has extensive comments 15:20:56 s/Hawkes Louis/Hawkes-Lewis/ 15:20:57 JF: the question really is what would be the preferred behavior? 15:21:42 JF: we had the means of generating sequences of numbers 15:21:58 JF: that to me was generated content not voiced by a screen reader 15:22:27 Michael: several ways of generating comments 15:22:49 Michael: we think these are CSS and not HTML issues but we need to look at this in the context of HTML 15:22:54 janina: that sounds correct 15:23:01 JF: so, what are we going to do 15:23:23 Michael: listing the problems is a starting point 15:23:43 Michael: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis should be engageable in this 15:24:02 JF: It should be considered as a background image 15:24:10 q+ 15:24:26 JF: It needs to be exosed to AT 15:24:38 q? 15:24:42 ack r 15:25:34 Rich: we can apply roles of images and an aria-label to the targeted element 15:25:48 JF: what about actionable elements? 15:26:25 janina: we don't need to solve this today? 15:26:48 janina: we don't need to solve this today 15:27:05 janina: we need to ramp up our ability to address this 15:27:14 Q+ 15:27:20 judy: If you want to add to the agenda to help Leonie filling out that matricx 15:27:30 s/matricx/matrix/ 15:27:31 ack j 15:27:43 JF: dow we have a mechanism in aria that acts as a toggle? 15:28:23 Rich: no 15:28:47 JF: would this be an aria.next candidate? 15:29:37 Rich: possibly 15:29:43 q? 15:30:00 JF: perhaps a wysiwyg editor for this 15:30:24 leonie: the equivalent of and empty alt attribute 15:30:45 rich: we have an aria-hidden attribute 15:31:16 Michael: I don't know that we can convey all this with ARIA as you can have classes 15:31:25 Michael: assign the bug to John Foliot 15:32:05 Michael: I am willing to be on the subgroup: John, Michael, Leonie, Rich 15:32:14 Michael: John to lead the subgroup 15:32:27 Topic: Bug 13461 15:32:58 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13461 15:33:58 janina: this is a substantive comment by a major user 15:35:14 janina: from a bug processing perspective this is already subsumed as the information included needs to be retained. 15:35:47 janina: we can ask that laura incorporate it into the change proposal supporting the changes for longdesc 15:35:55 Leonie: Yup! 15:36:27 q+ 15:36:35 Janina: we do not want to lose the comments from the Association of American publishers 15:37:00 Janina: we would ask laura to ask that this be referenced in the change proposal 15:37:04 Judy: I support this 15:37:43 Judy: so, this is closed because of duplication of another defect? 15:38:02 JF: this is not closed. it is listed as new. Jim thatcher supported it 15:38:43 JF: It is not really a bug but it is a comment. There is a tracker issue tagged to it 15:38:56 JF: I would support Laura linking to it 15:39:12 janina: I suspect it will be closed by procedure as it is already being taken up 15:39:22 q+ 15:39:29 ack JF 15:39:50 ack J 15:40:06 Judy: the most relevant place is to attach it to an existing change proposal. We should add it in a survey 15:40:35 janina: this is a bridge we need to cross 15:41:24 janina: anything else on this? 15:41:51 s/the most relevant place is to attach it to an existing change proposal. We should add it in a survey/yes let's add it to the change proposal but the most relevant place would be to add it into survey when issue is resurveyed/ 15:41:57 JF: perhaps a discussion with the chairs so that this does not get closed and lost. 15:42:33 JF: they like questions like this coming forward 15:42:42 judy: they are going to say put it in the survey 15:43:38 JF: this is supporting evidenced for our change proposal 15:44:03 judy: my comment earlier was to add this as relevant information to both the change proposal and the survey 15:44:33 janina: we should think in terms of how they construct the longdesc survey 15:44:43 judy: we can provide feedback on that 15:45:02 janina: we can perfect the old survey 15:46:08 Topic: Canvas Accessibility focus ring/text baseline 15:46:11 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JulSep/0272.html 15:46:24 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/FocusRingTextBaseline 15:47:24 LeonieWatson has joined #html-a11y 15:47:46 Topic: Canvas update 15:49:27 RS: We've modified our code and made changes and we're hoping to get reviews by browser vendors on focus ring. 15:49:44 RS: Once that's done, we can submit a formal CP 15:50:37 RS: I don't want this to end up with another counter proposal getting in the way. 15:50:48 JS: Questions? 15:50:56 RS: Comments welcome, send them on over. 15:51:16 rrsagent, make minutes 15:51:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieWatson 15:51:28 Topic: Media update 15:51:37 JF: Nothing to report. 15:51:57 JS: We're waiting for content to play with for navigation, and we have some poster issue stuff still to work on. 15:52:09 JF: The poster issue has been logged as a formal objection, which I need to look at. 15:52:34 JS: With navigation we need to see if our proposed ideas work? 15:52:51 JF: We should try to convene the group again to look at some of this. 15:53:15 JS: We could maybe take advantage of time together at TPAC. 15:53:19 Topic: Text update 15:53:34 JB: We haven't met for the last two weeks, but will meet next week. We have plenty to do. 15:54:29 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/LongdescZeroEdit 15:54:33 JF: We need to decide what we want to do about the response I sent to Jonas. 15:54:57 JB: Apologies John, I'm hoping to get to this soon. 15:55:06 JF: I'm hearing the chairs will want to make a move soon. 15:55:26 JB: They do understand we have responses pending. If we want to comment on Math, I think they'd welcome that. 15:55:39 a/Math/Matt 15:56:15 Topic: Review of CSS 15:56:52 JS: Before TPAC we're trying to review the whole CSS3 spec. 15:57:23 s/We need to decide what we want to do about the response I sent to Jonas./We need to decide what we want to do about the response I drafted for Jonas' CP 15:57:27 JS: We'll hopefully be able to bring PF and CSS WGs together at TPAC. 15:58:21 JF: I could try to reach out to Tab Atkins? 15:58:26 JS: Yep. 15:58:39 JS: There is another wiki and matrix page. 15:58:53 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/CSS/Spec_Review 15:59:04 q+ 16:00:43 dropping off 16:00:56 -Rich_Schwerdtfeger 16:01:08 LW: I can probably ask my team to help out and filter information back to the PFWG. 16:01:59 JF: There are two entries in the matrix: generated content and generated content page. You can put me down for those. 16:02:35 JS: If people outside of PF are able to help, write to Michael and he'll associate them with the module. 16:02:41 rrsagent, make minutes 16:02:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieWatson 16:03:14 -Léonie_Watson 16:03:35 -Michael_Cooper 16:03:36 -Judy 16:03:37 -Janina_Sajka 16:03:46 janina has left #html-a11y 16:04:08 rrsagent, make minutes 16:04:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieWatson 16:04:29 -JF 16:04:31 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has ended 16:04:33 Attendees were Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Judy, Janina_Sajka, Léonie_Watson, +1.650.468.aaaa, JF 16:06:21 rrsagent, make minutes 16:06:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieWatson 16:57:05 Judy has joined #html-a11y 18:54:47 MikeSmith_ has joined #html-a11y 20:26:45 MichaelC_ has joined #html-a11y