13:46:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:46:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/07-dap-irc
13:47:00 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:47:00 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
13:47:02 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
13:47:02 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
13:47:03 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference
13:47:03 <trackbot> Date: 07 September 2011
13:50:04 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0038.html
13:50:36 <fjh> fjh has changed the topic to: dap 3279 ;  agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0038.html ; please register Present+ First_Last and update zakim (fjh)
13:51:00 <fjh> Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:51:04 <fjh> Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:53:23 <Kihong_Kwon> Kihong_Kwon has joined #dap
13:56:38 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:56:45 <Zakim> + +1.289.261.aaaa
13:57:03 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, aaaa is me
13:57:03 <Zakim> +Josh_Soref; got it
13:57:11 <Josh_Soref> Present+ Josh_Soref 
13:57:16 <Josh_Soref> Scribe: Josh_Soref 
13:57:38 <AnssiK> AnssiK has joined #dap
13:58:58 <Zakim> +??P8
13:59:00 <AnssiK> Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
13:59:52 <Kihong_Kwon> Kihong_Kwon has joined #dap
14:00:13 <Kihong_Kwon> Hi Anssi
14:00:31 <Zakim> +??P17
14:00:36 <fjh> zakim, ?? is me
14:00:36 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
14:00:40 <Zakim> +??P18
14:00:41 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:00:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Josh_Soref, AnssiK, fjh, ??P18
14:00:41 <dom> Zakim, ??P18 is me
14:00:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see Kihong_Kwon, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Josh_Soref, fjh, darobin, ernesto_jimenez, richt, lgombos, trackbot, ingmar, dom
14:00:44 <Zakim> +dom; got it
14:00:50 <dom> Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:00:51 <fjh> s/Hi Anssi//
14:01:25 <fjh> zakim, who is making noise?
14:01:37 <Zakim> fjh, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
14:01:38 <Kihong_Kwon> Present+ Kihong_Kwon
14:02:08 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:02:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see Josh_Soref, AnssiK, fjh, dom
14:02:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see Kihong_Kwon, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Josh_Soref, fjh, darobin, ernesto_jimenez, richt, lgombos, trackbot, ingmar, dom
14:02:43 <darobin> Zakim, let me in dammit
14:02:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'let me in dammit', darobin
14:02:52 <Zakim> +??P15
14:02:54 <darobin> ah
14:03:00 <SungOk_You> SungOk_You has joined #dap
14:03:03 <darobin> Zakim, ??P15 is me
14:03:03 <Zakim> +darobin; got it
14:03:13 <darobin> s/Zakim, let me in dammit//
14:03:16 <Josh_Soref> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:03:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/07-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref
14:03:25 <SungOk_You> Present+ SungOk_You
14:04:01 <Cathy> Cathy has joined #dap
14:04:34 <Cathy> Present+ Cathy_Chan
14:04:45 <Zakim> +??P20
14:05:04 <Josh_Soref> s/ah//
14:05:08 <SungOk_You> Zakim, ??P20 is me 
14:05:08 <Zakim> +SungOk_You; got it
14:05:12 <Josh_Soref> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:05:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/07-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref
14:05:31 <Zakim> + +1.781.266.aabb
14:06:12 <fjh> zakim, aabb is cathy
14:06:12 <Zakim> +cathy; got it
14:06:23 <AnssiK> http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/info/name.php3
14:06:31 <AnssiK> "Add a name mapping for the W3C Teleconference Bridge Status"
14:06:34 <fjh> zakim, who  is here?
14:06:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Josh_Soref, AnssiK, fjh, dom, darobin, SungOk_You, cathy
14:06:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see Cathy, SungOk_You, Kihong_Kwon, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Josh_Soref, fjh, darobin, ernesto_jimenez, richt, lgombos, trackbot, ingmar, dom
14:08:00 <fjh> Topic: Administrative
14:08:02 <fjh> Webinos spec publicly available, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0012.html (Claes)
14:08:02 <fjh> request to TAG re Javascript API - HTTP/REST, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0014.html (Frederick)
14:08:02 <fjh> proposal with request for comment, on referencing HTML5, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2011Sep/0000.html
14:08:13 <Zakim> + +1.425.214.aacc
14:09:02 <fjh> zakim, aacc is bryan
14:09:02 <Zakim> +bryan; got it
14:09:02 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, aacc is Bryan
14:09:03 <Zakim> sorry, Josh_Soref, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
14:09:11 <fjh> Present+ Bryan_Sullivan
14:09:13 <bryan> bryan has joined #dap
14:09:25 <Josh_Soref> Topic: Minutes Approval
14:09:28 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/att-0105/minutes-2011-08-31.html
14:09:31 <bryan> present+ Bryan_Sullivan
14:09:38 <Josh_Soref> RESOLUTION Minutes for last week approved
14:09:41 <fjh> editorial clarifications, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0016.html 
14:09:43 <Josh_Soref> Topic: Battery
14:09:51 <fjh> Alternative events proposal, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0005.html
14:10:04 <fjh> event handling, no event when listener registered, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0035.html (Anne)
14:10:04 <fjh> synthetic events, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0028.html (Anne/Robin)
14:10:57 <fjh> most recent, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0044.html
14:11:05 <AnssiK> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/system-info/battery-status.html
14:11:28 <Josh_Soref> AnssiK: I've tried to address all of the issues from the list in the latest ED
14:11:47 <Josh_Soref> ... it addresses the side effect issue by side stepping it
14:12:05 <Josh_Soref> ... it initializes the battery details as part of the constructor
14:12:12 <Josh_Soref> ... using tasks
14:12:23 <Josh_Soref> ... it uses the new event constructor and references DOMCore
14:12:29 <Josh_Soref> ... events are now cancelable and bubble
14:12:47 <Josh_Soref> ... clarified conditions of battery low, and critical based on Kihong_Kwon's feedback
14:12:55 <Josh_Soref> ... I dropped start/stop methods from the proposal
14:13:10 <Josh_Soref> ... start is handled by constructing the event
14:13:33 <Josh_Soref> ... stop can be optimized by UAs,... when there are no listeners, they don't need to fire it
14:13:46 <Josh_Soref> ... but that's an implementation detail
14:14:04 <dom> q+ re constructor vs well-known instance
14:14:06 <Josh_Soref> ... the latest ED is there
14:14:21 <darobin> q+ to insert an agenda item about workshop
14:14:24 <Josh_Soref> ... I reworked all the prose in the examples to reflect the changes
14:14:37 <Josh_Soref> ... it's a very small change from the developer's perspective
14:14:40 <fjh> q+ to note possible confusion on mail list
14:14:58 <Josh_Soref> ... instead of exposing the global window object, the info hangs off the battery object
14:15:08 <Josh_Soref> ... this feels cleaner
14:15:44 <fjh> anssi asks for review, implementation feedback
14:16:40 <Josh_Soref> AnssiK: I was in a hurry, so there are probably bugs/typos in ED
14:16:42 <fjh> need to fix missing DOMCORE reference
14:16:46 <fjh> ack dom
14:16:46 <Zakim> dom, you wanted to discuss constructor vs well-known instance
14:16:50 <Josh_Soref> ... so please review it and send feedback
14:17:00 <Josh_Soref> dom: AnssiK , first, thanks for all the work you've put in
14:17:05 <Josh_Soref> ... i like the new approach very much
14:17:08 <darobin> +1 to Anssi doing great work, should become editor of other specs :)
14:17:12 <Josh_Soref> ... i have a question about it, that i just sent to the list
14:17:28 <Josh_Soref> ... do we really want to allow creating as many Battery Event sources as a developer wants?
14:17:34 <fjh> dom's question on the list -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0047.html
14:17:41 <Josh_Soref> ... instead of making it a single well known thing?
14:17:53 <Josh_Soref> q+ to note that implementations can cheat and make it a singleton
14:18:08 <Josh_Soref> AnssiK: the main problem is deciding when to enable the battery source
14:18:34 <Josh_Soref> dom: i'm not sure what you mean by emitting
14:18:35 <darobin> [in fact we could require it to be a singleton]
14:18:52 <Josh_Soref> AnssiK: the problem with hanging the data off the global object
14:19:12 <fjh> section 3.2, http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/system-info/battery-status.html#constructor-1
14:19:13 <Josh_Soref> ... is that there's no way for an implementation to optimize away gathering data
14:19:56 <dom> window.navigator.battery.start()
14:20:30 <Josh_Soref> dom: i'm confused about why a developer would need more than one instance
14:20:45 <Josh_Soref> q+ to talk about how developers use modules which don't talk to eachother
14:21:00 <Josh_Soref> AnssiK: the dictionary should show up in section 4
14:21:15 <fjh> ack darobin
14:21:15 <Zakim> darobin, you wanted to insert an agenda item about workshop
14:21:28 <Josh_Soref> ... in some browsers, it doesn't do the right thing, so i need to monkey patch things
14:21:35 <Josh_Soref> ... is that right darobin ?
14:21:52 <Josh_Soref> q+ darobin to insert an agenda item about workshop
14:22:15 <AnssiK> dictionary BatteryStatusEventInit should show up in Section 4
14:22:34 <AnssiK> I've monkeypatched it in and it's not working in all browsers it seems
14:22:43 <fjh> anssi notes perhaps WebIDL dictionary support needs to be in ReSpec
14:22:47 <AnssiK> so if it does not show up, you should reload the page
14:22:49 <Josh_Soref> dom: there's an indirect request to add [Web IDL] Dictionary support to ReSpec
14:22:50 <AnssiK> it
14:22:58 <fjh> ack fjh
14:22:58 <Zakim> fjh, you wanted to note possible confusion on mail list
14:23:40 <Josh_Soref> fjh: has the current discussion / ED resolved the initialization confusion on the list?
14:23:46 <Josh_Soref> ... involving side effects
14:23:52 <dom> (should we close ISSUE-113 or is that premature?)
14:24:02 <Josh_Soref> ... Bjoern Hoehrmann
14:24:05 <fjh> ack Josh_Soref
14:24:05 <Zakim> Josh_Soref, you wanted to note that implementations can cheat and make it a singleton and to talk about how developers use modules which don't talk to eachother
14:24:05 <Josh_Soref> ack me
14:24:25 <fjh> q?
14:25:03 <darobin> Josh_Soref: there is no requirements to require new Foo() to return a differnt object
14:25:10 <darobin> ... we could return a singleton
14:25:27 <darobin> ... this is easy to implement in JS, plenty of implementation strategies, little cost
14:25:37 <Josh_Soref> Zakim: ack me
14:25:47 <fjh> josh_soref notes that return could be static object
14:26:29 <darobin> Josh_Soref: if you have three modules from different groups, they may want to do different things
14:26:36 <darobin> ... they'll instantiate an object
14:26:40 <fjh> josh_soref also talk about how developers use modules which don't talk to each other
14:26:57 <darobin> ... if they do that, each module is not going to coordinate over getting that object
14:27:10 <darobin> ... you could get that from navigator, but there are reasons not to
14:27:17 <darobin> ... the navigator object is protected
14:27:24 <fjh> q?
14:27:45 <fjh> ack darobin
14:27:46 <Zakim> darobin, you wanted to insert an agenda item about workshop
14:27:49 <darobin> [note that if a module 1 calls stop it would stop for all other modules — assuming there is stop()]
14:27:55 <Josh_Soref> Josh_Soref: oops it isn't protected
14:28:14 <Josh_Soref> darobin: do we want to publish a heartbeat for Battery?
14:28:23 <Josh_Soref> Josh_Soref: +1 for a snapshot
14:28:25 <dom> [let's wait to get some further feedback on the new approach?]
14:28:49 <Josh_Soref> Josh_Soref: i'll try to proofread it today or tomorrow
14:28:51 <Zakim> -cathy
14:28:51 <fjh> +1 to week for Anssi to edit and for some review
14:29:12 <Josh_Soref> Zakim: q?
14:29:18 <Josh_Soref> Topic: Future of Offline Applications
14:29:18 <Zakim> +cathy
14:29:21 <Josh_Soref> q?
14:29:35 <Josh_Soref> darobin: there's a workshop coming up
14:29:46 <Josh_Soref> ... however so long as the workshop has not been officially announced
14:29:50 <Josh_Soref> ... everything is subject to change
14:30:14 <Josh_Soref> ... the topic potentially covers Widgets/AppCache
14:30:20 <bryan> This is what I proposed for a TPAC discussion could we have it that week?
14:30:27 <Josh_Soref> ... the tentative date is the Saturday after TPAC
14:30:28 <bryan> q+
14:30:48 <Josh_Soref> ... tentatively at the Vodafone offices near SC.CA.US
14:31:00 <darobin> ack bryan 
14:31:20 <Josh_Soref> bryan: why can't this be @TPAC?
14:31:27 <Josh_Soref> darobin: i dunno
14:31:31 <fjh> ... e.g. on Wednesday
14:31:36 <Josh_Soref> ... i think the idea is that the workshop expects to use an entire day
14:31:40 <nwidell> nwidell has joined #dap
14:31:50 <Josh_Soref> ... if you have specific questions, i think the best person to ask is dan_a
14:31:58 <dom> q+
14:33:07 <Josh_Soref> [ darobin looks for location ]
14:33:17 <Zakim> + +46.1.07.15.aadd
14:33:21 <Josh_Soref> bryan: i thought that Widgets were rather stable
14:33:30 <darobin>  Redwood City, CA
14:33:40 <Josh_Soref> darobin: you can also take issues to matt warner
14:33:40 <nwidell> Present+ Niklas_Widell
14:33:53 <Josh_Soref> dom: given the timeline, i think it's too late to change the details of the logistics
14:34:08 <Josh_Soref> ... given the requirement of a 8 weeks advance notice
14:34:10 <nwidell> zakim, aadd is nwidell
14:34:10 <Zakim> +nwidell; got it
14:34:18 <Josh_Soref> q+ to ask about a saturday moratorium
14:34:33 <darobin> q?
14:34:40 <darobin> ack dom
14:34:40 <dom> q-
14:34:44 <darobin> ack Josh_Soref 
14:34:44 <Zakim> Josh_Soref, you wanted to ask about a saturday moratorium
14:36:01 <Josh_Soref> [ action dom to send feedback about scheduling on weekends ]
14:36:15 <Josh_Soref> Topic: Feature Permissions
14:36:29 <fjh> revised example, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0006.html (Wonsuk)
14:36:36 <Josh_Soref> fjh: there was a little work revising the example
14:36:41 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:36:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see Josh_Soref, AnssiK, fjh, dom, darobin, SungOk_You, bryan, cathy, nwidell
14:36:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see nwidell, bryan, SungOk_You, Kihong_Kwon, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Josh_Soref, fjh, darobin, ernesto_jimenez, richt, lgombos, trackbot, ingmar, dom
14:36:50 <Josh_Soref> ... it's unfortunate that lgombos isn't here
14:37:07 <Josh_Soref> darobin: i think he's in a Media Annotation meeting now
14:37:18 <Josh_Soref> Topic: Contacts
14:37:24 <darobin> s/darobin: i think he's in a Media Annotation meeting now//
14:37:27 <Josh_Soref> fjh: is there anything to cover here?
14:37:52 <Josh_Soref> [ Adjourned ]
14:37:54 <bryan> bryan has left #dap
14:37:56 <Josh_Soref> RRSAgent: bye
14:37:56 <RRSAgent> I see no action items