15:01:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webevents
15:01:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/06-webevents-irc
15:01:11 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make log public
15:01:13 <Zakim> +??P2
15:01:25 <ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
15:01:25 <ArtB> Scribe: Art
15:01:25 <ArtB> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/0043.html
15:01:25 <ArtB> Date: 6 September 2011
15:01:25 <ArtB> Chair: Art
15:01:25 <sangwhan> zakim, ??P2 is me
15:01:25 <Zakim> +sangwhan; got it
15:01:26 <ArtB> Meeting: Web Events WG Voice Conference
15:01:28 <ArtB> Regrets: Olli_Pettay
15:01:32 <Zakim> + +1.206.792.aacc
15:01:38 <mbrubeck> Zakim, aacc is me
15:01:38 <Zakim> +mbrubeck; got it
15:01:42 <lgombos> lgombos has joined #webevents
15:01:46 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
15:02:27 <Zakim> + +1.781.534.aadd
15:02:55 <lgombos> Zakim: aadd is me
15:02:55 <ArtB> Present: Art_Barstow, Sangwhan_Moon, Matt_Brubeck, Doug_Schepers, Scott_Graham, Laszlo_Gombos
15:03:13 <ArtB> Topic: Tweak Agenda
15:03:21 <ArtB> AB: I posted a draft agenda on September 5 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JulSep/0043.html. Any change requests? Depending on the outcome of the discussion of Issue-19, we may skip the topic about publishing a LC of Touch Events v1 spec.
15:04:02 <ArtB> Topic: Announcements
15:04:06 <ArtB> AB: Any short announcements for today?
15:04:19 <ArtB> AB: Scott joins us for the first time
15:04:27 <ArtB> JG: video game industry in the past
15:04:38 <ArtB> … am now at Google on Chrome and webkit team
15:04:44 <Zakim> -sangwhan
15:04:44 <ArtB> … want to support richer apps
15:04:48 <ArtB> … especially games
15:05:02 <ArtB> … I am particuarly interested in Joystick API I submitted
15:05:35 <Zakim> +??P2
15:06:04 <Cathy> Cathy has joined #webevents
15:06:20 <sangwhan> sangwhan has joined #webevents
15:06:25 <Zakim> + +1.781.993.aaee
15:06:32 <Cathy> zakim, aaee is me
15:06:32 <Zakim> +Cathy; got it
15:06:58 <sangwhan> zakim, who is on the call?
15:06:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.650.253.aaaa, Art_Barstow, mbrubeck, Doug_Schepers, +1.781.534.aadd, ??P2, Cathy
15:07:04 <sangwhan> zakim, ??P2 is me
15:07:04 <Zakim> +sangwhan; got it
15:07:09 <Cathy> Present+ Cathy_Chan
15:07:10 <ArtB> AB: in order for us to publish Joystick API, it must first be explicit in our charter
15:07:22 <ArtB> … I don't think that is going to be problematic to get it added
15:07:25 <mbrubeck> Zakim, aadd is lgombos
15:07:25 <Zakim> +lgombos; got it
15:07:43 <ArtB> DS: yes, I agree adding Joystick to our charter shouldn't be problematic
15:08:02 <ArtB> … re-chartering also gives us more specific info about our scope now that we have a LC
15:08:16 <ArtB> … and that may make it easier for other Members to join this WG
15:08:32 <ArtB> … we can also consider adding other specs besides Joystick
15:08:47 <ArtB> JG: so the concern is getting too broad to raise other legal concerns?
15:08:54 <ArtB> DS: yes, that's the concern
15:09:01 <sangwhan> s/JG/SG/
15:09:05 <ArtB> … it's about IP/patent concerns
15:09:15 <mbrubeck> Zakim, who is making noise?
15:09:27 <Zakim> mbrubeck, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.650.253.aaaa (31%), Art_Barstow (58%), Doug_Schepers (13%)
15:09:36 <mbrubeck> Zakim, aaaa is scottmg
15:09:36 <Zakim> +scottmg; got it
15:09:49 <sangwhan> zakim, who is on the call?
15:09:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see scottmg, Art_Barstow, mbrubeck, Doug_Schepers, lgombos, sangwhan, Cathy
15:09:54 <ArtB> AB: we can add re-chartering to next week's topic list
15:10:04 <ArtB> JG: ok with me
15:10:17 <ArtB> Topic: Issue-19: Align initTouchEvent parameters with Webkit
15:10:29 <ArtB> AB: Issue-19 http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/19 has open Action-55 for Laszlo http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/55.
15:10:37 <ArtB> AB: during our August 30 discussion on this issue http://www.w3.org/2011/08/30-webevents-minutes.html#item03, we agreed that if the action was still open today, we would do as Matt proposed, i.e. " For v1 we can remove initTouchEvent (and createTouch + createTouchList which are not useful without initTouchEvent), and wait until v2 to answer these questions and spec those."
15:11:11 <ArtB> AB: let's start with Laszlo. It appears he submitted the patch to webkit bug 60612 as he mentioned last week https://bug-60612-attachments.webkit.org/attachment.cgi?id=106379
15:11:49 <ArtB> LG: my action was to remove these paramaters
15:11:58 <ArtB> … to help get feedback from the WK community
15:12:05 <ArtB> … I completed my action
15:12:10 <ArtB> … but no feedback yet
15:12:24 <ArtB> … I did Cc people from Google and Apple
15:12:55 <ArtB> … The changes are fairly small
15:13:09 <ArtB> … We should get feedback within a few days and if not, I can do some followups
15:13:16 <ArtB> MB: that's great; thanks Laszlo
15:13:22 <ArtB> … I see 3 possibilities
15:13:33 <ArtB> … If the changes are agreed, spec won't need to change
15:13:51 <ArtB> … If the changes are not agreeable, we should change the spec to match webkit
15:14:15 <ArtB> … If this is controversial within the WK community, we can remove the method for v1 and take it up again in v2
15:14:28 <ArtB> DS: we can go to LC and mark this feature as "At Risk"
15:14:43 <ArtB> … getting a LC published is real importanat re getting feedback
15:15:04 <ArtB> … with the feature "At Risk", we can go to CR and not need to go back to LC
15:15:25 <ArtB> LG: so we can would leave the method but remove the params for LC?
15:15:44 <ArtB> DS: yes, we could do that; or mark those params and/or methods "At Risk"
15:15:58 <ArtB> … need a warning about the feature may be dropped
15:16:20 <ArtB> AB: is it the case that the spec now matches Webkit with LG's patch?
15:16:29 <ArtB> MB: yes, it does
15:16:57 <ArtB> LG: my proposal is to go to LC with the spec as it is today (with those params removed)
15:17:55 <ArtB> SM: I think we should push the spec as it is
15:18:14 <ArtB> … as I think this will force the issue
15:18:30 <ArtB> DS: we could just put it out there as it is 
15:18:48 <ArtB> AB: I'm hearing we should go to LC with the spec as it is today
15:19:02 <ArtB> … i.e. no additional warnings or marks of "At Risk"
15:19:12 <ArtB> … Is that a fair characterization?
15:19:16 <ArtB> DS: that's fine with me
15:19:24 <ArtB> MB: I'm OK with that
15:19:36 <ArtB> … but I'm OK with marking it "As Risk" too
15:20:12 <ArtB> … With Laszlo's patch, the API is not quite identical
15:20:20 <ArtB> … I can minute the details
15:20:47 <ArtB> … The first several parms match but then WK has 2 additional params the spec does not include
15:21:06 <ArtB> … and those 2 params are apple specific
15:21:28 <ArtB> … But with LG's patch, the first several params do match
15:22:13 <ArtB> AB: so I think we have consensus to consider this issue closed
15:22:27 <ArtB> AB: any objections to closing this issue and the related action?
15:22:30 <ArtB> [ None ]
15:22:58 <ArtB> Topic: Call for Consensus to publish a Last Call WD of Touch Events v1
15:23:07 <ArtB> AB: any comments about publishing a LCWD of Touch Events v1 http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/v1/touchevents.html>
15:23:40 <ArtB> SM: I recall Cathy noticed some probs with the example code
15:23:49 <ArtB> MB: I think I have a related action
15:24:02 <ArtB> SM: I can take a look
15:24:15 <mbrubeck> action-61?
15:24:15 <trackbot> ACTION-61 -- Matt Brubeck to test Sangwhan's list examples against implementations -- due 2011-08-16 -- OPEN
15:24:15 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/61
15:24:24 <ArtB> AB: we want the examples to be error free, but they are non-normative
15:24:43 <mbrubeck> I tested the first example and it does work on WebKit.
15:24:49 <ArtB> … thus fixing examples would not force another LC
15:24:52 <mbrubeck> I haven't tested the second one yet.
15:25:41 <ArtB> AB: I propose we publish a LCWD of the Touch Events v1 spec
15:25:51 <ArtB> … any objections or voices of support?
15:25:54 <ArtB> DS: support
15:26:07 <ArtB> LG: support
15:26:08 <Cathy> +1
15:26:11 <sangwhan> +1
15:26:14 <mbrubeck> +1
15:26:22 <ArtB> Present+ Cathy_Chan
15:26:39 <ArtB> RESOLUTION: the WG agrees to publish a LCWD of the Touch Events v1 spec
15:26:56 <ArtB> AB: who is going to prep the doc?
15:27:00 <ArtB> DS: I can do that
15:27:03 <ArtB> AB: great
15:27:16 <sangwhan> mbrubeck: I would have loved to touch them myself, but my phone doesn't quite support multiple touches very well in a hardware level. A fancier piece of hardware is on it's way from the states very soon that's supposed to handle multiple touch better - I'll get to it as soon as that comes in.
15:27:20 <ArtB> AB: comment review period, 3 weeks it the minimum
15:27:25 <ArtB> DS: I propose 4 weeks
15:27:34 <ArtB> AB: any objections to 4 weeks?
15:27:39 <mbrubeck> no
15:27:41 <ArtB> [ None ]
15:28:00 <mbrubeck> sangwhan: Okay, I can finish testing then... I have both Android and iOS multi-touch hardware.
15:28:02 <ArtB> AB: so let's target a Sept 13 publication
15:28:17 <ArtB> … that will give some extra time for editorial changes
15:28:45 <ArtB> … We need to know if there are any specific WGs we want to request to review the spec?
15:28:50 <ArtB> … WebApps is one WG
15:28:53 <sangwhan> mbrubeck: I'll take a look at the logical flaws first - just let me know if something doesn't work.
15:28:56 <ArtB> … Any other WGs?
15:29:06 <ArtB> DS: the WAI P&F WG
15:29:31 <Zakim> -sangwhan
15:29:49 <ArtB> DS: we could also ask HTML WG
15:30:01 <ArtB> AB: OK, so HTML WG, WebApps WG and WAI P&F WG
15:30:50 <ArtB> Topic: Any Other Business (AOB)
15:30:56 <ArtB> AB: let's plan for a call next week, September 13. Potential topics are status of the Intentional Events spec and testing.
15:31:30 <ArtB> AB: are there other topics for next week?
15:31:42 <ArtB> DS: yes, testing and Joystick API
15:31:59 <ArtB> MB: and we should have feedback from WK people re LG's patch
15:32:08 <ArtB> AB: other topics?
15:32:14 <ArtB> AB: anything else for today?
15:32:26 <ArtB> [ None ]
15:32:29 <sangwhan> sangwhan has joined #webevents
15:32:40 <ArtB> AB: meet on Sept 13
15:32:46 <ArtB> AB: meeting adjourned
15:32:49 <Zakim> -lgombos
15:32:51 <Zakim> -scottmg
15:32:52 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:32:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/06-webevents-minutes.html ArtB
15:32:53 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
15:32:53 <Zakim> -Cathy
15:32:58 <Zakim> -Art_Barstow
15:33:04 <Zakim> -mbrubeck
15:33:06 <Zakim> RWC_WebEven()11:00AM has ended
15:33:07 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.650.253.aaaa, +1.781.993.aabb, Art_Barstow, sangwhan, +1.206.792.aacc, mbrubeck, Doug_Schepers, +1.781.534.aadd, +1.781.993.aaee, Cathy, lgombos, scottmg
15:33:27 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make log Public
15:33:39 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:33:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/06-webevents-minutes.html ArtB
15:38:30 <sangwhan> sangwhan has left #webevents
15:43:46 <ArtB> zakim, bye
15:43:46 <Zakim> Zakim has left #webevents
15:43:52 <ArtB> rrsagent, bye
15:43:52 <RRSAgent> I see no action items