IRC log of ua on 2011-09-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:55:25 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:55:25 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/01-ua-irc
16:55:27 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:55:27 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
16:55:29 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:55:29 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
16:55:30 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:55:30 [trackbot]
Date: 01 September 2011
16:56:53 [JAllan]
zakim, aganda?
16:56:54 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, JAllan.
16:56:59 [jeanne]
Agenda+ Register for TPAC http://www.w3.org/2011/11/TPAC/
16:56:59 [jeanne]
Agenda+ Resolve configure important items, UA determine relationships.
16:56:59 [jeanne]
Agenda+ Review/Resolve outstanding issues
16:56:59 [jeanne]
Agenda+ survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/abc/
16:56:59 [jeanne]
Agenda+ review comments -
16:57:00 [jeanne]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JulSep/0010.html
16:57:22 [jeanne]
Agenda+ Items needing summary
16:57:40 [jeanne]
Agenda+ Action Item Review
16:57:42 [JAllan]
regrets: Jan, Mark
17:01:14 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:01:21 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.324.aaaa
17:01:24 [Greg]
Greg has joined #ua
17:01:31 [jeanne]
zakim, aaaa is me
17:01:32 [Zakim]
+jeanne; got it
17:01:35 [Zakim]
+Jim_Allan
17:03:11 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.895.aabb
17:03:18 [Greg]
zakim, aabb is me
17:03:20 [Zakim]
+Greg; got it
17:06:30 [kford]
Sorry I keep trying to connect with the phone but it doesn't seem to be working.
17:06:47 [JAllan]
JAllan has joined #ua
17:07:19 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
17:07:28 [kford]
zakim, microsoft is kford
17:07:28 [Zakim]
+kford; got it
17:07:59 [JAllan]
zakim, agenda?
17:07:59 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
17:08:00 [Zakim]
1. Register for TPAC http://www.w3.org/2011/11/TPAC/ [from jeanne]
17:08:03 [Zakim]
2. Resolve configure important items, UA determine relationships. [from jeanne]
17:08:05 [Zakim]
3. Review/Resolve outstanding issues [from jeanne]
17:08:07 [Zakim]
4. survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/abc/ [from jeanne]
17:08:09 [Zakim]
5. review comments - [from jeanne]
17:08:10 [Zakim]
6. Items needing summary [from jeanne]
17:08:12 [Zakim]
7. Action Item Review [from jeanne]
17:08:27 [JAllan]
zakim, open item 1
17:08:27 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Register for TPAC http://www.w3.org/2011/11/TPAC/" taken up [from jeanne]
17:09:18 [jeanne]
TPAC will be an unconference format. See the list of ideas for sessions <- http://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2011/SessionIdeas
17:09:58 [JAllan]
Dates for UAWG meeting is Nov 3 & 4
17:14:29 [sharper]
sharper has joined #ua
17:20:06 [JAllan]
registration closes 14 october and registration fee goes up
17:20:44 [kford]
zakim, agenda?
17:20:44 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
17:20:46 [Zakim]
1. Register for TPAC http://www.w3.org/2011/11/TPAC/ [from jeanne]
17:20:48 [Zakim]
2. Resolve configure important items, UA determine relationships. [from jeanne]
17:20:51 [Zakim]
3. Review/Resolve outstanding issues [from jeanne]
17:20:52 [Zakim]
4. survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/abc/ [from jeanne]
17:20:54 [Zakim]
5. review comments - [from jeanne]
17:20:56 [Zakim]
6. Items needing summary [from jeanne]
17:20:57 [Zakim]
7. Action Item Review [from jeanne]
17:20:59 [jeanne]
zakim, take up item 1
17:20:59 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Register for TPAC http://www.w3.org/2011/11/TPAC/" taken up [from jeanne]
17:20:59 [JAllan]
zakim, close item 1
17:21:01 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Register for TPAC http://www.w3.org/2011/11/TPAC/, closed
17:21:02 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:21:04 [Zakim]
2. Resolve configure important items, UA determine relationships. [from jeanne]
17:21:18 [jeanne]
zakim, take up item 2
17:21:18 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Resolve configure important items, UA determine relationships." taken up [from jeanne]
17:21:48 [jeanne]
JS: I don't think we have enough people for a viable consensus. Postpone until next week.
17:21:52 [jeanne]
zakim, close this item
17:21:52 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
17:21:54 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:21:56 [Zakim]
3. Review/Resolve outstanding issues [from jeanne]
17:22:43 [jeanne]
zakim, take up item 3
17:22:43 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Review/Resolve outstanding issues" taken up [from jeanne]
17:22:52 [jeanne]
JA: Principle 1 is complete
17:23:00 [jeanne]
... Principle 5 is complete
17:23:12 [jeanne]
... need a summary for 4.2
17:23:49 [jeanne]
... 4.2.1 and 4.2.1 need intent. (already have examples)
17:24:06 [jeanne]
s/ 4.2.1 and 4.2.1 / 4.2.1 and 4.2.2
17:25:16 [jeanne]
[group breaks for writing]
17:26:49 [sharper_]
sharper_ has joined #ua
17:28:44 [Zakim]
+??P2
17:31:46 [JAllan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-UAAG20-20110819
17:32:01 [kford]
Possible Summary for 2.2:
17:32:07 [kford]
That's 4.2.
17:32:09 [kford]
Input focus correctly transitions between nested user agents (4.2.1), the user can determine input focus at any time (4.2.2) and input focus never gets stuck in any nested user agent (4.2.3).
17:32:30 [JAllan]
zakim, P2 is really sharper
17:32:30 [Zakim]
sorry, JAllan, I do not recognize a party named 'P2'
17:32:42 [JAllan]
zakim, ??P2 is really sharper
17:32:42 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
17:33:39 [KimPatch]
KimPatch has joined #ua
17:35:11 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.325.aacc
17:42:35 [Greg]
zakim, aacc is Kim
17:42:35 [Zakim]
+Kim; got it
17:46:35 [kford]
Possible summaries for 4.2 and 2.7:
17:46:45 [kford]
4.2
17:46:47 [kford]
Input focus correctly transitions between nested user agents (4.2.1), the user can determine input focus at any time (4.2.2) and input focus never gets stuck in any nested user agent (4.2.3).
17:46:49 [kford]
2.7
17:46:51 [kford]
The user can customize user agent settings related to accessibility (2.7.1) with settings changes being saved between sessions (2.7.2) and restore settings to default values (2.7.3). Users can have multiple sets of preferences (2.7.4), have related settings restored to default as a group (2.7.5) and adjust preferences outside the user agent main user interface (2.7.6). Users can also...
17:46:53 [kford]
...transfer settings between devices (2.7.7) and are offered a wizard to assist in user customization (2.7.8).
17:48:21 [JAllan]
possible summaries for 3.1-3.4
17:48:24 [JAllan]
3.1 Users can turn off non-essential messaes from the author or user-agent.
17:48:35 [JAllan]
3.2 Users can choose to confirm form submissions.
17:48:56 [JAllan]
3.3 User documentation is available in an accessible format (3.3.1), it includes accessbilbity features (3.3.2), delineates differences between versions (3.3.3), provides a centralized views of the browser meets UAAG2.0 (3.3.4), and is available as context sensitive help in the UA (3.3.5).
17:49:08 [JAllan]
3.4 Moving the focus allow presentation of information (e.g. tooltips) but does not cause any other action (3.4.2). Users can prevent non-requested focus changes (3.4.1).
17:50:50 [jeanne]
Topic: proposed Summary for 2.1
17:50:54 [jeanne]
Guideline 2.1 - Ensure full keyboard access.
17:50:54 [jeanne]
Users have many ways to input information into a computer or device, including mouse, keyboard, gesture, and speech. The keyboard paradigm is the most universal interface for text input - even devices that do have a keyboard (like mobile phones) support a software interface for them. All functions can be operated only using a keyboard (2.1.1), the focus can be moved by the keyboard (2.1.2, 2.1.3),
17:50:54 [jeanne]
important or commonly used features of the web page or application should have shortcut keys for direct navigation (2.1.8). and the user can override keyboard shortcuts and user interface controls (2.1.4). Users should have a mechanism to escape keyboard traps such as embedded objects that do not return focus to the main web page (2.1.5). Users can set a preference that selecting an item in a
17:50:56 [jeanne]
dropdown list or menu, does not activate that item or move to that new web page (2.1.6). Text entry should use the standard keys for that platform (2.1.7).
17:51:27 [jeanne]
Topic: Proposed Summary for 2.2
17:51:29 [jeanne]
Guideline 2.2 - Provide sequential navigation
17:51:29 [jeanne]
Users need to be able to move through all the enabled content in the web page in a logical sequential fashion (2.2.1 and 2.2.2). Unless the author specifies a different navigation order, the default is the document order (2.2.3). Users can prevent or request notification when wrapping to the start of the page, to prevent unwanted repetition (2.2.4).
17:56:54 [KimPatch]
2.1.2 Keyboard Focus (former 1.9.1):
17:56:55 [KimPatch]
Every viewport has an active or inactive keyboard focus at all times. (Level A)
17:56:57 [KimPatch]
2.1.3 Viewport Navigation (former 1.9.2 & 1.9.4):
17:56:58 [KimPatch]
The user can move the active keyboard focus to any viewport. (Level A)
17:57:10 [KimPatch]
2.2.1 Sequential Navigation Between Elements [replaces 1.9.8 Bi-Directional and 2.1.8 Keyboard Navigation]
17:57:12 [KimPatch]
The user can move the keyboard focus backwards and forwards through all recognized enabled elements in the current viewport. (Level A)
17:57:13 [KimPatch]
2.2.2 Sequential Navigation Between Viewports [new]:
17:57:15 [KimPatch]
The user can move the keyboard focus backwards and forwards between viewports, without having to sequentially navigate all the elements in a viewport. (Level A)
17:58:24 [JAllan]
Action: revisit Nested User Agents 2.1.2, 2.1.3, .2.2.1, 2.2.2, -- these should be cross referenced with gl 4.2 <-- should also be reviewed.
17:58:24 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - revisit
17:58:40 [JAllan]
Action: jallan to revisit Nested User Agents 2.1.2, 2.1.3, .2.2.1, 2.2.2, -- these should be cross referenced with gl 4.2 <-- should also be reviewed.
17:58:41 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-610 - Revisit Nested User Agents 2.1.2, 2.1.3, .2.2.1, 2.2.2, -- these should be cross referenced with gl 4.2 <-- should also be reviewed. [on Jim Allan - due 2011-09-08].
18:00:01 [sharper_]
Users can discover the keys which facilitate direct navigation and activation (2.5.1), view their location in the structural hierarchy (2.5.3), along with the relationships within that hierarchy (2.5.5), and specify the elements (2.5.7+1.10.3) important to building and navigate different hierarchical views (1.10.2).
18:00:38 [JAllan]
topic: summary 4.2 Input focus correctly transitions between nested user agents (4.2.1), the user can determine input focus at any time (4.2.2) and input focus never gets stuck in any nested user agent (4.2.3).
18:02:43 [JAllan]
summary 4.2 Input focus correctly transitions between nested user agents (4.2.1), the user can retrieve input focus at any time (4.2.2) and input focus never gets stuck in any nested user agent (4.2.3).
18:03:37 [JAllan]
topic: 2.7.5 summary
18:03:48 [JAllan]
The user can customize user agent settings related to accessibility (2.7.1) with settings changes being saved between sessions (2.7.2) and restore settings to default values (2.7.3). Users can have multiple sets of preferences (2.7.4), have related settings restored to default as a group (2.7.5) and adjust preferences outside the user agent main user interface (2.7.6). Users can also...
18:03:50 [JAllan]
...transfer settings between devices (2.7.7) and are offered a wizard to assist in user customization (2.7.8).
18:05:42 [JAllan]
Users can customize user agent settings related to accessibility (2.7.1) with settings being saved between sessions (2.7.2) and restore settings to default values (2.7.3). Users can have multiple sets of preferences (2.7.4), have related settings restored to default as a group (2.7.5) and adjust preferences outside the user agent main user interface (2.7.6). Users can also transfer settings...
18:05:44 [JAllan]
...between devices (2.7.7) and are offered a wizard to assist in user customization (2.7.8).
18:06:18 [JAllan]
topic: summary for GL 3.1 -3.4
18:06:36 [JAllan]
3.1 Users can turn off non-essential messaes from the author or user-agent.
18:06:37 [JAllan]
3.2 Users can choose to confirm form submissions.
18:06:39 [JAllan]
3.3 User documentation is available in an accessible format (3.3.1), it includes accessbilbity features (3.3.2), delineates differences between versions (3.3.3), provides a centralized views of the browser meets UAAG2.0 (3.3.4), and is available as context sensitive help in the UA (3.3.5).
18:06:41 [JAllan]
3.4 Moving the focus allow presentation of information (e.g. tooltips) but does not cause any other action (3.4.2). Users can prevent non-requested focus changes (3.4.1).
18:09:35 [JAllan]
gl: what about an SC requiring spell checking for folks with reading or writing disabilities.
18:10:29 [JAllan]
all agree.
18:10:59 [JAllan]
Action: Greg to write new SC 3.2.x about spell checking
18:10:59 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-611 - Write new SC 3.2.x about spell checking [on Greg Lowney - due 2011-09-08].
18:13:23 [JAllan]
3.3 User documentation is available in an accessible format (3.3.1), it includes accessibility features (3.3.2), delineates differences between versions (3.3.3), provides a centralized views of conformance UAAG2.0 (3.3.4), and is available as context sensitive help in the UA (3.3.5).
18:15:01 [JAllan]
Topic: proposed Summary for 2.1
18:15:20 [JAllan]
Users have many ways to input information into a computer or device, including mouse, keyboard, gesture, and speech. The keyboard paradigm is the most universal interface for text input - even devices that do have a keyboard (like mobile phones) support a software interface for them. All functions can be operated only using a keyboard (2.1.1), the focus can be moved by the keyboard (2.1.2, 2.1.3),
18:15:22 [JAllan]
important or commonly used features of the web page or application should have shortcut keys for direct navigation (2.1.8). and the user can override keyboard shortcuts and user interface controls (2.1.4). Users should have a mechanism to escape keyboard traps such as embedded objects that do not return focus to the main web page (2.1.5). Users can set a preference that selecting an item in a
18:15:23 [JAllan]
dropdown list or menu, does not activate that item or move to that new web page (2.1.6). Text entry should use the standard keys for that platform (2.1.7).
18:15:25 [JAllan]
Topic: Proposed Summary for 2.2
18:15:26 [JAllan]
Guideline 2.2 - Provide sequential navigation
18:15:28 [JAllan]
Users need to be able to move through all the enabled content in the web page in a logical sequential fashion (2.2.1 and 2.2.2). Unless the author specifies a different navigation order, the default is the document order (2.2.3). Users can prevent or request notification when wrapping to the start of the page, to prevent unwanted repetition (2.2.4).
18:17:19 [JAllan]
scribe: jallan
18:18:27 [JAllan]
kf: first couple of sentences read more like an intent.
18:19:15 [JAllan]
JS: move first 2 sentences to intent of 2.1.1
18:21:30 [Greg]
"important or commonly used features should have shortcut keys for direct navigation (2.1.8)"
18:21:35 [KimPatch]
Users can operate all functions (2.1.1), and can move focus (2.1.2, 2.1.3) using just the keyboard.
18:23:22 [JAllan]
gl: but need to distinguish between 212 and 213
18:28:15 [JAllan]
Users can override author keyboard shortcuts and user interface controls (2.1.4)
18:29:53 [JAllan]
can override keyboard shortcuts and user interface keyboard controls (2.1.4)
18:31:51 [JAllan]
Users can escape keyboard traps such as embedded objects that do not return focus to the main web page (2.1.5).
18:32:39 [Greg]
"Users can override keyboard shortcuts in content and the user agent's user interface (2.1.4)"
18:32:53 [KimPatch]
Users can operate all functions (2.1.1), and move focus (2.1.2, 2.1.3) using just the keyboard. Users can activate important or common features with shortcut keys, (2.1.8), override keyboard shortcuts and user interface controls (2.1.4), escape keyboard traps (2.1.5), specify that selecting an item in a dropdown list or menuoes not activate that item or move to that new web page (2.1.6),...
18:32:55 [KimPatch]
...and use standard keys for that platform (2.1.7).
18:35:07 [sharper_]
Users can discover the keys which facilitate direct navigation and activation (2.5.1), view their current location in the structural hierarchy (2.5.3) as well as the relationships within that hierarchy (2.5.5), and specify the elements (2.5.7+1.10.3) important to building and navigating different hierarchical views (1.10.2).
18:35:28 [jeanne]
Topic: Simon's proposal for 2.5
18:36:21 [KimPatch]
Users can operate all functions (2.1.1), and move focus (2.1.2, 2.1.3) using just the keyboard. Users can activate important or common features with shortcut keys, (2.1.8), override content and interface keyboard shortcuts (2.1.4), escape keyboard traps (2.1.5), specify that selecting an item in a dropdown list or menuoes not activate that item or move to that new web page (2.1.6) and use...
18:36:22 [KimPatch]
...standard keys for that platform (2.1.7).
18:38:19 [JAllan]
need lots of discussion about 1.10.2 1.10.3 and 2.5.7 and 2.5.4
18:38:50 [KimPatch]
Users can operate all functions (2.1.1) and move focus (2.1.2, 2.1.3) using just the keyboard. Users can activate important or common features with shortcut keys (2.1.8), override content and interface keyboard shortcuts (2.1.4), escape keyboard traps (2.1.5), specify that selecting an item in a dropdown list or menu doesn't activate or move item to that new web page (2.1.6). User can use...
18:38:52 [KimPatch]
...standard keys for text entry (2.1.7).
18:39:07 [Greg]
"override keyboard shortcuts in content and user interface (2.1.4)"
18:40:21 [Greg]
(Don't want it to read like "override content and override interface keyboard shortcuts.)
18:42:00 [Zakim]
-jeanne
18:42:02 [Zakim]
-Kim
18:42:05 [Zakim]
-sharper
18:42:10 [Zakim]
-Jim_Allan
18:42:17 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:42:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/01-ua-minutes.html JAllan
18:42:45 [JAllan]
Present: JimA, KellyF, GregL, KimP, SimonH
18:43:12 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:43:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/01-ua-minutes.html JAllan
18:44:00 [Zakim]
-Greg
18:44:09 [JAllan]
Chair: JimAllan, KellyFord
18:44:13 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:44:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/01-ua-minutes.html JAllan
18:44:30 [JAllan]
zakim, please part
18:44:30 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were +1.617.324.aaaa, jeanne, Jim_Allan, +1.425.895.aabb, Greg, kford, sharper, +1.617.325.aacc, Kim
18:44:30 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
18:44:45 [JAllan]
rrsagent, please part
18:44:45 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/01-ua-actions.rdf :
18:44:45 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: revisit Nested User Agents 2.1.2, 2.1.3, .2.2.1, 2.2.2, -- these should be cross referenced with gl 4.2 <-- should also be reviewed. [1]
18:44:45 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/01-ua-irc#T17-58-24
18:44:45 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jallan to revisit Nested User Agents 2.1.2, 2.1.3, .2.2.1, 2.2.2, -- these should be cross referenced with gl 4.2 <-- should also be reviewed. [2]
18:44:45 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/01-ua-irc#T17-58-40
18:44:45 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Greg to write new SC 3.2.x about spell checking [3]
18:44:45 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/01-ua-irc#T18-10-59