13:48:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:48:18 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/31-dap-irc
13:48:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:48:20 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
13:48:22 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
13:48:22 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
13:48:23 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference
13:48:23 <trackbot> Date: 31 August 2011
13:48:59 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0096.html
13:49:34 <fjh> fjh has changed the topic to: dap 3279  ; agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0096.html ; please register Present+ First_Last and update zakim (fjh)
13:49:59 <fjh> Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:50:02 <fjh> Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:52:41 <ernesto_jimenez> ernesto_jimenez has joined #dap
13:53:12 <SungOk_You> SungOk_You has joined #dap
13:54:20 <Dzung_Tran> Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
13:54:29 <Dzung_Tran> Present+ Dzung_Tran
13:55:49 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:55:57 <Zakim> + +44.778.611.aaaa
13:56:25 <Zakim> +??P8
13:56:29 <fjh> zakim, ?? is me
13:56:29 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
13:56:52 <fjh> zakim, aaaa is ernesto_jimenez
13:56:52 <Zakim> +ernesto_jimenez; got it
13:56:57 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
13:56:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see ernesto_jimenez, fjh
13:56:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see Dzung_Tran, SungOk_You, ernesto_jimenez, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, darobin, richt, homata, lgombos, dom, wmaslowski_, trackbot, ingmar
13:57:48 <SungOk_You> Present+ SungOk_You
13:57:57 <wonsuk> wonsuk has joined #dap
13:58:56 <fjh> Present+ ernesto_jimenez
14:00:16 <wonsuk> Present+ Wonsuk_Lee
14:00:47 <Cathy> Cathy has joined #dap
14:01:03 <Zakim> + +1.781.534.aabb
14:01:13 <lgombos> Present+ Laszlo_Gombos
14:01:24 <Cathy> Present+ Cathy_Chan
14:01:35 <fjh> zakim, aabb is lgombos
14:01:35 <Zakim> +lgombos; got it
14:01:40 <Zakim> +??P11
14:02:10 <SungOk_You> zakim, ??P11 is me 
14:02:10 <Zakim> +SungOk_You; got it
14:02:26 <fjh> zakim, who is making noise?
14:02:38 <Zakim> fjh, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: SungOk_You (79%)
14:02:41 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:02:49 <darobin> Zakim, [IPCaller] is me
14:02:49 <Zakim> +darobin; got it
14:02:50 <Zakim> -SungOk_You
14:03:18 <Zakim> +??P4
14:03:20 <Zakim> -??P4
14:03:30 <Zakim> +??P5
14:03:32 <dom> Zakim, ??P5 is me
14:03:32 <Zakim> +dom; got it
14:03:33 <Zakim> + +44.208.144.aacc
14:03:40 <Zakim> +??P4
14:03:43 <dom> Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:03:47 <richt> zakim, aacc is me
14:03:47 <Zakim> +richt; got it
14:03:51 <richt> Present+ Rich_Tibbett
14:04:00 <SungOk_You> zakim, ??P4 is me 
14:04:00 <Zakim> +SungOk_You; got it
14:04:55 <Zakim> -darobin
14:05:02 <wonsuk> wonsuk has joined #dap
14:05:07 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:05:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see ernesto_jimenez, fjh, lgombos, dom, richt, SungOk_You
14:05:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see wonsuk, Cathy, Dzung_Tran, SungOk_You, ernesto_jimenez, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, darobin, richt, homata, lgombos, dom, wmaslowski_, trackbot, ingmar
14:05:14 <Zakim> +??P1
14:05:19 <wonsuk> Present+ Wonsuk_Lee
14:05:24 <darobin> Zakim, P1 is me
14:05:24 <Zakim> sorry, darobin, I do not recognize a party named 'P1'
14:05:30 <darobin> Zakim, ??P1 is me
14:05:30 <Zakim> +darobin; got it
14:05:38 <Zakim> + +82.31.30.1.aadd
14:05:58 <wonsuk> zakim, 82.31.30.1.aadd is me
14:05:58 <Zakim> sorry, wonsuk, I do not recognize a party named '82.31.30.1.aadd'
14:06:15 <wonsuk> zakim, +82.31.30.1.aadd is me
14:06:15 <Zakim> +wonsuk; got it
14:06:39 <Zakim> + +1.781.266.aaee
14:07:00 <Cathy> Zakim, aaee is me
14:07:00 <Zakim> +Cathy; got it
14:07:32 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:07:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see ernesto_jimenez, fjh, lgombos, dom, richt, SungOk_You, darobin, wonsuk, Cathy
14:07:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see wonsuk, Cathy, Dzung_Tran, SungOk_You, ernesto_jimenez, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, darobin, richt, homata, lgombos, dom, wmaslowski_, trackbot, ingmar
14:08:46 <Dzung_Tran> Oh, no wonder my email bounced.
14:08:49 <AnssiK> AnssiK has joined #dap
14:09:01 <AnssiK> Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:09:32 <Zakim> +??P12
14:09:36 <AnssiK> zakim, ??P12 is me
14:09:36 <Zakim> +AnssiK; got it
14:10:30 <fjh> ScribeNick: ernesto_jimenez
14:10:38 <fjh> Topic: Administrative
14:11:01 <fjh> Identity in the Browser Workshop Report, http://www.w3.org/2011/identity-ws/report
14:11:17 <fjh> Paper,  "Design and Implementation of a Fine-grained Resource Usage Model for the Android Platform", http://recluze.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/and-usage-nauman10.pdf
14:11:26 <ernesto_jimenez> fjh: talking about identity on the browser workshop
14:11:37 <ernesto_jimenez> Topic: minutes approval
14:11:40 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/att-0066/minutes-2011-08-24.html
14:11:40 <fjh> proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 24 August 2011  are approved
14:12:09 <ernesto_jimenez> RESOLUTION: Minutes from 24 August 2011  are approved
14:12:13 <ernesto_jimenez> Topic: Battery API
14:12:37 <ernesto_jimenez> AnssiK: talking about the side effects issue with the battery API
14:13:03 <ernesto_jimenez> AnssiK: comments that we are following the DOM3 specification which stays silent about this topic
14:13:11 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0100.html
14:13:29 <ernesto_jimenez> s/DOM3/DOM Core/
14:13:40 <dom> q+
14:13:53 <darobin> q+ to wonder if we should push this discussion to www-dom; also the initEvent question I asked
14:14:01 <fjh> ack dom
14:14:20 <ernesto_jimenez> AnssiK: asks if we are going to move the spec forward with a dependency on DOM Core, which is not stable yet
14:14:53 <ernesto_jimenez> dom: comments we probably shouldn't ignore the feedback from browser vendors in the Geo spec about the side effects
14:15:19 <darobin> [is anne representing Opera on this?]
14:15:45 <ernesto_jimenez> AnssiK: comments the issue might be punctual, we didn't receive this comment from the webkit guys when they reviewed the spec
14:15:57 <richt> darobin: I'm inclined to ask for further clarification from Anne.
14:16:06 <ernesto_jimenez> AnssiK: other specs seem to have the same question about side effects and there doesn't seem to be a clear solution
14:16:07 <fjh> ack darobin
14:16:07 <Zakim> darobin, you wanted to wonder if we should push this discussion to www-dom; also the initEvent question I asked
14:16:17 <richt> perhaps someone wants to reply and ask for that clarification from Anne on-list?
14:16:28 <richt> or some examples.
14:17:05 <ernesto_jimenez> dom: about the question whether the next publication should be a working draft or a last call
14:17:17 <fjh> q+
14:17:39 <ernesto_jimenez> dom: inclined to publish it as a working draft with a note on the side effects issue
14:18:04 <fjh> q-
14:18:06 <dom> +1 on trying to get resolution from www-dom
14:18:09 <fjh> +1
14:18:18 <darobin> ISSUE-113?
14:18:18 <trackbot> ISSUE-113 -- AddEventListener in Battery Status has side effects -- open
14:18:18 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/113
14:18:20 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: asks if we should send an email to the www-dom mailing list asking about this
14:18:29 <darobin> ACTION: Robin to bring ISSUE-113 to www-dom
14:18:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-448 - Bring ISSUE-113 to www-dom [on Robin Berjon - due 2011-09-07].
14:19:16 <Zakim> + +1.416.770.aaff
14:19:37 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: says we could also ask questions about initBatteryStatusEvent()
14:19:54 <darobin> Zakim, aaff is timeless
14:19:54 <Zakim> +timeless; got it
14:20:20 <fjh> Present+ Josh_Soref
14:20:33 <richt> darobin: It's not like someone at Opera told Anne to formally send that feedback. It's fundamental design feedback.
14:20:58 <fjh> robin notes cancelable and bubble can be set to true when not meaningful
14:20:59 <richt> we should take it in to account and check we're doing it right.
14:21:58 <ernesto_jimenez> AnssiK: comments he would like user agents to support both
14:23:23 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: is happy to leave it to feedback by implementors
14:24:14 <ernesto_jimenez> Josh_Soref: says his preference is using only the new interface in the new spec
14:24:33 <ernesto_jimenez> AnssiK: says that then we'll have to reference DOM Core rather than DOM Tree
14:27:16 <dom> s/Tree/3/
14:27:30 <darobin> ACTION-448: a) add question about cancelable and bubbles in init*Event and b) usage of DOM3EV vs "DOM Core"
14:27:30 <trackbot> ACTION-448 Bring ISSUE-113 to www-dom notes added
14:28:29 <ernesto_jimenez> AnssiK: would like to get clarification on the position of whether using DOM3 or DOM Core because both specs are overlapping
14:28:41 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: will ask www-dom
14:28:43 <Zakim> -timeless
14:29:07 <Zakim> + +1.289.261.aagg
14:29:38 <fjh> zakim, aagg is timeless
14:29:38 <Zakim> +timeless; got it
14:30:30 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: do we want to publish a WD or wait for feedback?
14:31:09 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: that way we don't have people reviewing the spec which is not updated
14:31:16 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: we can decide next week
14:31:25 <fjh> note - publication of updated battery WD should be decision for next week agenda
14:31:33 <nwidell> nwidell has joined #dap
14:31:38 <ernesto_jimenez> Topic: Contacts
14:32:06 <nwidell> Present+ Niklas_Widell
14:32:17 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:32:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/31-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:32:19 <Zakim> -Cathy
14:32:31 <darobin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0052.html
14:32:43 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: we got some feedback from the protocols and formats WG
14:32:59 <fjh> s/Oh, no wonder my email bounced.//
14:33:28 <darobin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0097.html
14:33:38 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: the first feedback is about the need to have some text with the pictures
14:33:57 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: I personally replied there's nothing we can do about it because it's the underlying content
14:34:27 <dom> [I think this all relates to Josh's comments on the usability of PortableContacts as a reference]
14:34:43 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: the second point is that it's not clear what the type attribute is for
14:34:53 <Josh_Soref> Josh_Soref has joined #dap
14:35:00 <Josh_Soref> present+ Josh_Soref 
14:35:07 <Zakim> + +46.1.07.15.aahh
14:35:13 <Josh_Soref> RRSAgent:, make minutes
14:35:13 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand ', make minutes', Josh_Soref.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:35:15 <Zakim> +Cathy
14:35:20 <Josh_Soref> RRSAgent: make minutes
14:35:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/31-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref
14:35:24 <nwidell> zakim, aahh is nwidell
14:35:24 <Zakim> +nwidell; got it
14:35:43 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: says it would be useful what the type attribute for photos is useful for
14:36:10 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: says that the information would be a note, nothing normative because we don't control the content
14:36:12 <ernesto_jimenez> richt: agrees
14:36:55 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: talks about feedback on API Invocation via COM Events
14:37:10 <dom> do we want to keep this, though?
14:37:13 <dom> s/COM/DOM/
14:37:13 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: comments that we didn't invent this, but he agrees it's not accessible
14:37:20 <ernesto_jimenez> richt: agrees
14:37:31 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: suggest that is something we could bring to www-dom
14:37:37 <darobin> ACTION-448: also mention the issue of valid auto-invocation events (these should be common across the platform anyway)
14:37:37 <trackbot> ACTION-448 Bring ISSUE-113 to www-dom notes added
14:38:40 <ernesto_jimenez> Josh_Soref: comments that one of the working group should be looking into how events should work, maybe the web events group
14:39:09 <ernesto_jimenez> Josh_Soref: he thinks it might be a joint work with ARIA, but doesn't quite know the status
14:39:24 <darobin> Web Events WG's sole deliverable: Web Events 1.0: Multitouch and User-Action Events
14:40:22 <ernesto_jimenez> dom: comments that it's the Web Events WG the one that is supposed to work on these kind of events
14:40:39 <ernesto_jimenez> dom: and points they would be working with WAI
14:40:43 <dom> s/kind of events/kind of events (intentional events)/
14:40:53 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: will ask www-dom
14:41:24 <darobin> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/contacts/#accessing-contact-information---example--1
14:41:56 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: next feedback about the example UI allows to choose which fields to pick but doesn't allow to select which users to be picked 
14:42:35 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: the suggestion was to add some checkboxes to the UI to show that a user can select which users to select
14:42:36 <richt> the concept in the UI mockup is the same as selecting multiple files in a file picker...but whatever 
14:42:38 <richt> :)
14:43:19 <ernesto_jimenez> Josh_Soref: points that it depends on the system it might not be checkboxes
14:43:33 <richt> the spec says "and the option to select one or more contacts (as appropriate) from the user interface."
14:43:46 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: it's not about whether it should be checkboxes or not, but showing that it should be an option
14:44:08 <ernesto_jimenez> richt: is OK with changing the UI, but the text already points that out
14:46:08 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: the rest are oversights and bugs which were already addressed, we can leave this to the editor
14:46:22 <darobin> q+ dictionaries and error objects
14:46:32 <ernesto_jimenez> s/we can leave this/we can leave these/
14:46:33 <fjh> this review is entered in LC tracker, LC-2547,  http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/43696/WD-contacts-api-20110616/2547
14:47:43 <darobin> ack me
14:47:43 <ernesto_jimenez> richt: yes, issues 5 and 6 from the email are already fixed and will fix 4
14:48:04 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: next thing is feedback from andreas
14:48:15 <fjh> new set of review comments on WebIDL
14:48:19 <fjh> rrsagent, where am I?
14:48:19 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2011/08/31-dap-irc#T14-48-19
14:49:00 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: going with dictionaries should be ok
14:49:17 <darobin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2011JulSep/0133.html
14:49:34 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: should we declare our own error objects or use existing ones?
14:49:35 <darobin> http://www.w3.org/mid/7493AA2A-A57D-43EB-906A-12C7515F2CE6@wirfs-brock.com
14:49:46 <richt> API error handling seems like something that could benefit from over-arching guidance to all groups.
14:49:50 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: there was a post about trying 
14:49:50 <ernesto_jimenez> 
14:49:54 <richt> to remain consistent.
14:50:11 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: about trying to avoid creating too many error objects
14:50:33 <darobin> ISSUE: Should we have different Error objects for each spec, or should we go the way that Exceptions are going and only have one object
14:50:34 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-119 - Should we have different Error objects for each spec, or should we go the way that Exceptions are going and only have one object ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/119/edit .
14:50:51 <darobin> ISSUE-119: this influences Contacts
14:50:51 <trackbot> ISSUE-119 Should we have different Error objects for each spec, or should we go the way that Exceptions are going and only have one object notes added
14:51:35 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: it's probably good to keep the discussion on public-script-coord
14:51:42 <ernesto_jimenez> Topic: Feature Permission API
14:52:00 <ernesto_jimenez> s/Feature Permission API/Feature Permissions API/
14:52:01 <darobin> ACTION-436
14:52:02 <darobin> ACTION-436?
14:52:02 <trackbot> ACTION-436 -- WonSuk Lee to provide an example for Permissions -- due 2011-07-27 -- CLOSED
14:52:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/436
14:52:05 <darobin> http://www.w3.org/mid/007d01cc615c$e3675fb0$aa361f10$%25lee@samsung.com
14:52:45 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: wonsuk provided an example which hasn't had a response yet
14:53:00 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: it should be reviewed
14:53:19 <darobin> ACTION Laszlo to reply to http://www.w3.org/mid/007d01cc615c$e3675fb0$aa361f10$%25lee@samsung.com
14:53:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-449 - Reply to http://www.w3.org/mid/007d01cc615c$e3675fb0$aa361f10$%25lee@samsung.com [on Laszlo Gombos - due 2011-09-07].
14:53:58 <ernesto_jimenez> Josh_Soref: I will provide feedback too
14:54:04 <Zakim> -richt
14:54:27 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: lgombos have you had time to update the WD?
14:54:40 <ernesto_jimenez> lgombos: not yet, I might have it in a week or two
14:54:42 <AnssiK> [it may be a good practice to jslint.com any example code, even if in the tolerate * mode]
14:54:59 <ernesto_jimenez> darobin: anything else on feature permissions?
14:55:18 <Zakim> +richt
14:55:38 <fjh> have started adding additional last call comments into s
14:55:48 <fjh> Topic: Adjourn
14:55:57 <fjh> s/into s/into last call tracker/
14:56:00 <Zakim> -lgombos
14:56:03 <Zakim> -SungOk_You
14:56:03 <Josh_Soref> RRSAgent: make minutes
14:56:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/31-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref
14:56:05 <Zakim> -richt
14:56:06 <Zakim> -ernesto_jimenez
14:56:06 <Zakim> -darobin
14:56:07 <Zakim> -fjh
14:56:07 <Zakim> -AnssiK
14:56:09 <Zakim> -timeless
14:56:09 <Zakim> -dom
14:56:12 <Zakim> -Cathy
14:56:29 <Zakim> -nwidell
14:56:39 <Zakim> -wonsuk
14:56:40 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
14:56:41 <Zakim> Attendees were +44.778.611.aaaa, fjh, ernesto_jimenez, +1.781.534.aabb, lgombos, SungOk_You, darobin, dom, +44.208.144.aacc, richt, wonsuk, +1.781.266.aaee, Cathy, AnssiK,
14:56:43 <Zakim> ... +1.416.770.aaff, timeless, +1.289.261.aagg, +46.1.07.15.aahh, nwidell
14:57:54 <fjh_> fjh_ has joined #dap
15:15:18 <Josh_Soref> RRSAgent: bye
15:15:18 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/31-dap-actions.rdf :
15:15:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Robin to bring ISSUE-113 to www-dom [1]
15:15:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/31-dap-irc#T14-18-29