IRC log of dap on 2011-08-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:48:18 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:48:18 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:48:20 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:48:20 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #dap
13:48:22 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DAP
13:48:22 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
13:48:23 [trackbot]
Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference
13:48:23 [trackbot]
Date: 31 August 2011
13:48:59 [fjh]
13:49:34 [fjh]
fjh has changed the topic to: dap 3279 ; agenda ; please register Present+ First_Last and update zakim (fjh)
13:49:59 [fjh]
Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:50:02 [fjh]
Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:52:41 [ernesto_jimenez]
ernesto_jimenez has joined #dap
13:53:12 [SungOk_You]
SungOk_You has joined #dap
13:54:20 [Dzung_Tran]
Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
13:54:29 [Dzung_Tran]
Present+ Dzung_Tran
13:55:49 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
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+ +44.778.611.aaaa
13:56:25 [Zakim]
13:56:29 [fjh]
zakim, ?? is me
13:56:29 [Zakim]
+fjh; got it
13:56:52 [fjh]
zakim, aaaa is ernesto_jimenez
13:56:52 [Zakim]
+ernesto_jimenez; got it
13:56:57 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
13:56:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ernesto_jimenez, fjh
13:56:58 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Dzung_Tran, SungOk_You, ernesto_jimenez, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, darobin, richt, homata, lgombos, dom, wmaslowski_, trackbot, ingmar
13:57:48 [SungOk_You]
Present+ SungOk_You
13:57:57 [wonsuk]
wonsuk has joined #dap
13:58:56 [fjh]
Present+ ernesto_jimenez
14:00:16 [wonsuk]
Present+ Wonsuk_Lee
14:00:47 [Cathy]
Cathy has joined #dap
14:01:03 [Zakim]
+ +1.781.534.aabb
14:01:13 [lgombos]
Present+ Laszlo_Gombos
14:01:24 [Cathy]
Present+ Cathy_Chan
14:01:35 [fjh]
zakim, aabb is lgombos
14:01:35 [Zakim]
+lgombos; got it
14:01:40 [Zakim]
14:02:10 [SungOk_You]
zakim, ??P11 is me
14:02:10 [Zakim]
+SungOk_You; got it
14:02:26 [fjh]
zakim, who is making noise?
14:02:38 [Zakim]
fjh, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: SungOk_You (79%)
14:02:41 [Zakim]
14:02:49 [darobin]
Zakim, [IPCaller] is me
14:02:49 [Zakim]
+darobin; got it
14:02:50 [Zakim]
14:03:18 [Zakim]
14:03:20 [Zakim]
14:03:30 [Zakim]
14:03:32 [dom]
Zakim, ??P5 is me
14:03:32 [Zakim]
+dom; got it
14:03:33 [Zakim]
+ +44.208.144.aacc
14:03:40 [Zakim]
14:03:43 [dom]
Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:03:47 [richt]
zakim, aacc is me
14:03:47 [Zakim]
+richt; got it
14:03:51 [richt]
Present+ Rich_Tibbett
14:04:00 [SungOk_You]
zakim, ??P4 is me
14:04:00 [Zakim]
+SungOk_You; got it
14:04:55 [Zakim]
14:05:02 [wonsuk]
wonsuk has joined #dap
14:05:07 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:05:07 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ernesto_jimenez, fjh, lgombos, dom, richt, SungOk_You
14:05:10 [Zakim]
On IRC I see wonsuk, Cathy, Dzung_Tran, SungOk_You, ernesto_jimenez, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, darobin, richt, homata, lgombos, dom, wmaslowski_, trackbot, ingmar
14:05:14 [Zakim]
14:05:19 [wonsuk]
Present+ Wonsuk_Lee
14:05:24 [darobin]
Zakim, P1 is me
14:05:24 [Zakim]
sorry, darobin, I do not recognize a party named 'P1'
14:05:30 [darobin]
Zakim, ??P1 is me
14:05:30 [Zakim]
+darobin; got it
14:05:38 [Zakim]
+ +
14:05:58 [wonsuk]
zakim, is me
14:05:58 [Zakim]
sorry, wonsuk, I do not recognize a party named ''
14:06:15 [wonsuk]
zakim, + is me
14:06:15 [Zakim]
+wonsuk; got it
14:06:39 [Zakim]
+ +1.781.266.aaee
14:07:00 [Cathy]
Zakim, aaee is me
14:07:00 [Zakim]
+Cathy; got it
14:07:32 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:07:32 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ernesto_jimenez, fjh, lgombos, dom, richt, SungOk_You, darobin, wonsuk, Cathy
14:07:35 [Zakim]
On IRC I see wonsuk, Cathy, Dzung_Tran, SungOk_You, ernesto_jimenez, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, darobin, richt, homata, lgombos, dom, wmaslowski_, trackbot, ingmar
14:08:46 [Dzung_Tran]
Oh, no wonder my email bounced.
14:08:49 [AnssiK]
AnssiK has joined #dap
14:09:01 [AnssiK]
Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:09:32 [Zakim]
14:09:36 [AnssiK]
zakim, ??P12 is me
14:09:36 [Zakim]
+AnssiK; got it
14:10:30 [fjh]
ScribeNick: ernesto_jimenez
14:10:38 [fjh]
Topic: Administrative
14:11:01 [fjh]
Identity in the Browser Workshop Report,
14:11:17 [fjh]
Paper, "Design and Implementation of a Fine-grained Resource Usage Model for the Android Platform",
14:11:26 [ernesto_jimenez]
fjh: talking about identity on the browser workshop
14:11:37 [ernesto_jimenez]
Topic: minutes approval
14:11:40 [fjh]
14:11:40 [fjh]
proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 24 August 2011 are approved
14:12:09 [ernesto_jimenez]
RESOLUTION: Minutes from 24 August 2011 are approved
14:12:13 [ernesto_jimenez]
Topic: Battery API
14:12:37 [ernesto_jimenez]
AnssiK: talking about the side effects issue with the battery API
14:13:03 [ernesto_jimenez]
AnssiK: comments that we are following the DOM3 specification which stays silent about this topic
14:13:11 [fjh]
14:13:29 [ernesto_jimenez]
s/DOM3/DOM Core/
14:13:40 [dom]
14:13:53 [darobin]
q+ to wonder if we should push this discussion to www-dom; also the initEvent question I asked
14:14:01 [fjh]
ack dom
14:14:20 [ernesto_jimenez]
AnssiK: asks if we are going to move the spec forward with a dependency on DOM Core, which is not stable yet
14:14:53 [ernesto_jimenez]
dom: comments we probably shouldn't ignore the feedback from browser vendors in the Geo spec about the side effects
14:15:19 [darobin]
[is anne representing Opera on this?]
14:15:45 [ernesto_jimenez]
AnssiK: comments the issue might be punctual, we didn't receive this comment from the webkit guys when they reviewed the spec
14:15:57 [richt]
darobin: I'm inclined to ask for further clarification from Anne.
14:16:06 [ernesto_jimenez]
AnssiK: other specs seem to have the same question about side effects and there doesn't seem to be a clear solution
14:16:07 [fjh]
ack darobin
14:16:07 [Zakim]
darobin, you wanted to wonder if we should push this discussion to www-dom; also the initEvent question I asked
14:16:17 [richt]
perhaps someone wants to reply and ask for that clarification from Anne on-list?
14:16:28 [richt]
or some examples.
14:17:05 [ernesto_jimenez]
dom: about the question whether the next publication should be a working draft or a last call
14:17:17 [fjh]
14:17:39 [ernesto_jimenez]
dom: inclined to publish it as a working draft with a note on the side effects issue
14:18:04 [fjh]
14:18:06 [dom]
+1 on trying to get resolution from www-dom
14:18:09 [fjh]
14:18:18 [darobin]
14:18:18 [trackbot]
ISSUE-113 -- AddEventListener in Battery Status has side effects -- open
14:18:18 [trackbot]
14:18:20 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: asks if we should send an email to the www-dom mailing list asking about this
14:18:29 [darobin]
ACTION: Robin to bring ISSUE-113 to www-dom
14:18:30 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-448 - Bring ISSUE-113 to www-dom [on Robin Berjon - due 2011-09-07].
14:19:16 [Zakim]
+ +1.416.770.aaff
14:19:37 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: says we could also ask questions about initBatteryStatusEvent()
14:19:54 [darobin]
Zakim, aaff is timeless
14:19:54 [Zakim]
+timeless; got it
14:20:20 [fjh]
Present+ Josh_Soref
14:20:33 [richt]
darobin: It's not like someone at Opera told Anne to formally send that feedback. It's fundamental design feedback.
14:20:58 [fjh]
robin notes cancelable and bubble can be set to true when not meaningful
14:20:59 [richt]
we should take it in to account and check we're doing it right.
14:21:58 [ernesto_jimenez]
AnssiK: comments he would like user agents to support both
14:23:23 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: is happy to leave it to feedback by implementors
14:24:14 [ernesto_jimenez]
Josh_Soref: says his preference is using only the new interface in the new spec
14:24:33 [ernesto_jimenez]
AnssiK: says that then we'll have to reference DOM Core rather than DOM Tree
14:27:16 [dom]
14:27:30 [darobin]
ACTION-448: a) add question about cancelable and bubbles in init*Event and b) usage of DOM3EV vs "DOM Core"
14:27:30 [trackbot]
ACTION-448 Bring ISSUE-113 to www-dom notes added
14:28:29 [ernesto_jimenez]
AnssiK: would like to get clarification on the position of whether using DOM3 or DOM Core because both specs are overlapping
14:28:41 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: will ask www-dom
14:28:43 [Zakim]
14:29:07 [Zakim]
+ +1.289.261.aagg
14:29:38 [fjh]
zakim, aagg is timeless
14:29:38 [Zakim]
+timeless; got it
14:30:30 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: do we want to publish a WD or wait for feedback?
14:31:09 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: that way we don't have people reviewing the spec which is not updated
14:31:16 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: we can decide next week
14:31:25 [fjh]
note - publication of updated battery WD should be decision for next week agenda
14:31:33 [nwidell]
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14:31:38 [ernesto_jimenez]
Topic: Contacts
14:32:06 [nwidell]
Present+ Niklas_Widell
14:32:17 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:32:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate fjh
14:32:19 [Zakim]
14:32:31 [darobin]
14:32:43 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: we got some feedback from the protocols and formats WG
14:32:59 [fjh]
s/Oh, no wonder my email bounced.//
14:33:28 [darobin]
14:33:38 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: the first feedback is about the need to have some text with the pictures
14:33:57 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: I personally replied there's nothing we can do about it because it's the underlying content
14:34:27 [dom]
[I think this all relates to Josh's comments on the usability of PortableContacts as a reference]
14:34:43 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: the second point is that it's not clear what the type attribute is for
14:34:53 [Josh_Soref]
Josh_Soref has joined #dap
14:35:00 [Josh_Soref]
present+ Josh_Soref
14:35:07 [Zakim]
+ +
14:35:13 [Josh_Soref]
RRSAgent:, make minutes
14:35:13 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand ', make minutes', Josh_Soref. Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:35:15 [Zakim]
14:35:20 [Josh_Soref]
RRSAgent: make minutes
14:35:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Josh_Soref
14:35:24 [nwidell]
zakim, aahh is nwidell
14:35:24 [Zakim]
+nwidell; got it
14:35:43 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: says it would be useful what the type attribute for photos is useful for
14:36:10 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: says that the information would be a note, nothing normative because we don't control the content
14:36:12 [ernesto_jimenez]
richt: agrees
14:36:55 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: talks about feedback on API Invocation via COM Events
14:37:10 [dom]
do we want to keep this, though?
14:37:13 [dom]
14:37:13 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: comments that we didn't invent this, but he agrees it's not accessible
14:37:20 [ernesto_jimenez]
richt: agrees
14:37:31 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: suggest that is something we could bring to www-dom
14:37:37 [darobin]
ACTION-448: also mention the issue of valid auto-invocation events (these should be common across the platform anyway)
14:37:37 [trackbot]
ACTION-448 Bring ISSUE-113 to www-dom notes added
14:38:40 [ernesto_jimenez]
Josh_Soref: comments that one of the working group should be looking into how events should work, maybe the web events group
14:39:09 [ernesto_jimenez]
Josh_Soref: he thinks it might be a joint work with ARIA, but doesn't quite know the status
14:39:24 [darobin]
Web Events WG's sole deliverable: Web Events 1.0: Multitouch and User-Action Events
14:40:22 [ernesto_jimenez]
dom: comments that it's the Web Events WG the one that is supposed to work on these kind of events
14:40:39 [ernesto_jimenez]
dom: and points they would be working with WAI
14:40:43 [dom]
s/kind of events/kind of events (intentional events)/
14:40:53 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: will ask www-dom
14:41:24 [darobin]
14:41:56 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: next feedback about the example UI allows to choose which fields to pick but doesn't allow to select which users to be picked
14:42:35 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: the suggestion was to add some checkboxes to the UI to show that a user can select which users to select
14:42:36 [richt]
the concept in the UI mockup is the same as selecting multiple files in a file picker...but whatever
14:42:38 [richt]
14:43:19 [ernesto_jimenez]
Josh_Soref: points that it depends on the system it might not be checkboxes
14:43:33 [richt]
the spec says "and the option to select one or more contacts (as appropriate) from the user interface."
14:43:46 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: it's not about whether it should be checkboxes or not, but showing that it should be an option
14:44:08 [ernesto_jimenez]
richt: is OK with changing the UI, but the text already points that out
14:46:08 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: the rest are oversights and bugs which were already addressed, we can leave this to the editor
14:46:22 [darobin]
q+ dictionaries and error objects
14:46:32 [ernesto_jimenez]
s/we can leave this/we can leave these/
14:46:33 [fjh]
this review is entered in LC tracker, LC-2547,
14:47:43 [darobin]
ack me
14:47:43 [ernesto_jimenez]
richt: yes, issues 5 and 6 from the email are already fixed and will fix 4
14:48:04 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: next thing is feedback from andreas
14:48:15 [fjh]
new set of review comments on WebIDL
14:48:19 [fjh]
rrsagent, where am I?
14:48:19 [RRSAgent]
14:49:00 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: going with dictionaries should be ok
14:49:17 [darobin]
14:49:34 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: should we declare our own error objects or use existing ones?
14:49:35 [darobin]
14:49:46 [richt]
API error handling seems like something that could benefit from over-arching guidance to all groups.
14:49:50 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: there was a post about trying
14:49:50 [ernesto_jimenez]
14:49:54 [richt]
to remain consistent.
14:50:11 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: about trying to avoid creating too many error objects
14:50:33 [darobin]
ISSUE: Should we have different Error objects for each spec, or should we go the way that Exceptions are going and only have one object
14:50:34 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-119 - Should we have different Error objects for each spec, or should we go the way that Exceptions are going and only have one object ; please complete additional details at .
14:50:51 [darobin]
ISSUE-119: this influences Contacts
14:50:51 [trackbot]
ISSUE-119 Should we have different Error objects for each spec, or should we go the way that Exceptions are going and only have one object notes added
14:51:35 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: it's probably good to keep the discussion on public-script-coord
14:51:42 [ernesto_jimenez]
Topic: Feature Permission API
14:52:00 [ernesto_jimenez]
s/Feature Permission API/Feature Permissions API/
14:52:01 [darobin]
14:52:02 [darobin]
14:52:02 [trackbot]
ACTION-436 -- WonSuk Lee to provide an example for Permissions -- due 2011-07-27 -- CLOSED
14:52:03 [trackbot]
14:52:05 [darobin]$e3675fb0$aa361f10$
14:52:45 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: wonsuk provided an example which hasn't had a response yet
14:53:00 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: it should be reviewed
14:53:19 [darobin]
ACTION Laszlo to reply to$e3675fb0$aa361f10$
14:53:19 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-449 - Reply to$e3675fb0$aa361f10$ [on Laszlo Gombos - due 2011-09-07].
14:53:58 [ernesto_jimenez]
Josh_Soref: I will provide feedback too
14:54:04 [Zakim]
14:54:27 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: lgombos have you had time to update the WD?
14:54:40 [ernesto_jimenez]
lgombos: not yet, I might have it in a week or two
14:54:42 [AnssiK]
[it may be a good practice to any example code, even if in the tolerate * mode]
14:54:59 [ernesto_jimenez]
darobin: anything else on feature permissions?
14:55:18 [Zakim]
14:55:38 [fjh]
have started adding additional last call comments into s
14:55:48 [fjh]
Topic: Adjourn
14:55:57 [fjh]
s/into s/into last call tracker/
14:56:00 [Zakim]
14:56:03 [Zakim]
14:56:03 [Josh_Soref]
RRSAgent: make minutes
14:56:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Josh_Soref
14:56:05 [Zakim]
14:56:06 [Zakim]
14:56:06 [Zakim]
14:56:07 [Zakim]
14:56:07 [Zakim]
14:56:09 [Zakim]
14:56:09 [Zakim]
14:56:12 [Zakim]
14:56:29 [Zakim]
14:56:39 [Zakim]
14:56:40 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
14:56:41 [Zakim]
Attendees were +44.778.611.aaaa, fjh, ernesto_jimenez, +1.781.534.aabb, lgombos, SungOk_You, darobin, dom, +44.208.144.aacc, richt, wonsuk, +1.781.266.aaee, Cathy, AnssiK,
14:56:43 [Zakim]
... +1.416.770.aaff, timeless, +1.289.261.aagg, +, nwidell
14:57:54 [fjh_]
fjh_ has joined #dap
15:15:18 [Josh_Soref]
RRSAgent: bye
15:15:18 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in :
15:15:18 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Robin to bring ISSUE-113 to www-dom [1]
15:15:18 [RRSAgent]
recorded in