15:49:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdb2rdf
15:49:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/30-rdb2rdf-irc
15:49:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:49:29 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdb2rdf
15:49:31 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
15:49:31 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
15:49:32 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:49:32 <trackbot> Date: 30 August 2011
15:49:57 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2011Aug/0167.html
15:50:00 <mhausenblas> Chair: Michael
15:50:05 <mhausenblas> scribenick: mhausenblas 
15:50:11 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes 
15:50:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/30-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:50:18 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:50:29 <mhausenblas> Zakim, this will be SW_RDB2RDF
15:50:29 <Zakim> ok, mhausenblas; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
15:55:42 <juansequeda> juansequeda has joined #RDB2RDF
15:56:23 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Marcelo
15:56:35 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Percy
15:57:12 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Nuno
15:57:52 <boris> boris has joined #rdb2rdf
15:58:49 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
15:58:53 <dmcneil> dmcneil has joined #RDB2RDF
15:58:57 <Zakim> + +3539149aaaa
15:59:03 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaaa is me
15:59:05 <Zakim> +mhausenblas; got it
15:59:14 <Zakim> +Philippe
15:59:18 <mhausenblas> Zakim, I unfortunately have cygri with me
15:59:18 <Zakim> I don't understand 'I unfortunately have cygri with me', mhausenblas
15:59:21 <Zakim> +Kingsley_Idehen
15:59:27 <MacTed> Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software
15:59:27 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it
15:59:30 <mhausenblas> Zakim, I have cygri with me
15:59:30 <Zakim> I don't understand 'I have cygri with me', mhausenblas
15:59:32 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf
15:59:33 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:59:33 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:59:33 <ericP> Zakim, Philippe is temporarily juansequeda 
15:59:34 <Zakim> +juansequeda; got it
15:59:36 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:59:36 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:59:39 <Zakim> + +1.314.394.aabb
15:59:41 <mhausenblas> Zakim, cygri is with me
15:59:41 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
15:59:47 <mhausenblas> present+ Michael
15:59:50 <mhausenblas> present+ Juan
15:59:57 <mhausenblas> present+ Ted
16:00:07 <mhausenblas> present+ Boris
16:00:07 <Zakim> +EricP
16:00:11 <mhausenblas> present+ David
16:00:15 <mhausenblas> present+ Eric
16:00:20 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:00:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, juansequeda, MacTed (muted), +1.314.394.aabb, EricP
16:00:22 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, cygri
16:00:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see Ashok, dmcneil, boris, juansequeda, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, cygri, MacTed, LeeF, ivan, trackbot, iv_an_ru_, betehess, ericP
16:00:50 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
16:00:51 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aabb is dmcneil 
16:00:51 <Zakim> +dmcneil; got it
16:00:56 <mhausenblas> present+ Ashok
16:00:58 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
16:00:58 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
16:01:00 <Zakim> +Ivan
16:01:04 <mhausenblas> present+ Ivan
16:01:11 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:01:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/30-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:01:25 <boris> zakim, mhausenblas is with boris
16:01:25 <Zakim> sorry, boris, I do not recognize a party named 'boris'
16:01:50 <mhausenblas> Zakim, boris is with me
16:01:50 <Zakim> +boris; got it
16:02:15 <cygri> dmcneil, i just wrote a reply to your mail
16:03:12 <mhausenblas> Topic: Admin
16:03:17 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
16:03:28 <juansequeda> +1
16:03:30 <boris> +1
16:03:33 <mhausenblas> RESOLUTION: Accept the minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
16:03:43 <mhausenblas> Topic: Postpone LC deadline
16:03:55 <mhausenblas> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2011Aug/0135.html
16:04:47 <Seema> Seema has joined #rdb2rdf
16:05:20 <mhausenblas> Ashok: Richard, how much more work is needed for R2RML?
16:05:33 <mhausenblas> Richard: From my POV it is feature-complete
16:06:07 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aacc
16:06:21 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aacc is Seema
16:06:21 <Zakim> +Seema; got it
16:06:28 <mhausenblas> present+ Seema
16:06:41 <mhausenblas> Ashok: same question for DM, Juan?
16:06:50 <mhausenblas> Juan: good to go
16:06:55 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aadd
16:06:57 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
16:07:10 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aadd is Souri 
16:07:10 <Zakim> +Souri; got it
16:07:25 <mhausenblas> present+ Souri
16:08:08 <ericP> i believe that <http://localhost/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directMapping/explicitFK#definition> reflects the current plan modulo a possible dispute around using '.' in place of ','
16:08:39 <ericP> i believe that <http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directMapping/explicitFK#definition> reflects the current plan modulo a possible dispute around using '.' in place of ','
16:08:51 <mhausenblas> Souri: Modulo last-moments addition, I think 15 Sep should be doable
16:09:27 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: The working group postpones the last call publication to the 16th of September
16:09:41 <Souri> We are going to do a rewrite of the ISSUE-57 related note by end of this week
16:10:05 <ivan> q+
16:10:12 <Souri> I am out next Tuesday
16:11:26 <ivan> q-
16:11:31 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: The working group postpones the last call publication to the 16th of September (frozen at 16, publish on 20 Sep)
16:11:33 <mhausenblas> q?
16:12:15 <mhausenblas> Ashok: When will the document be available, finally
16:12:26 <Souri> q+
16:12:44 <mhausenblas> q?
16:12:47 <mhausenblas> ack Souri 
16:14:41 <mhausenblas> Souri: I'd consider the translation table as out of scope for mid-September
16:15:24 <Souri> PROPOSAL: If WG is okay with eliminating some of the recently added content (such as, Translation Scheme) and any new additions, then we can try putting out the LC document by Sep 16.
16:15:51 <ivan> q+
16:16:10 <mhausenblas> ack ivan
16:16:35 <mhausenblas> Ivan: The proposal is too vague for me to vote, sorry
16:16:39 <mhausenblas> q?
16:16:57 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:16:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/30-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:17:35 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: The working group postpones the last call publication to the 16th of September beside translation scheme
16:18:15 <Souri> Translation Scheme, editing the content on many-to-many mapping, ISSUE-57 note rewriting, graphMap associating with POmap
16:18:46 <mhausenblas> Richard: I'd like to understand why to remove the feature (translation scheme)
16:18:55 <mhausenblas> Souri: only timing-wise
16:18:56 <mhausenblas> 1+
16:19:03 <mhausenblas> s/1+/q+
16:19:04 <mhausenblas> q?
16:19:10 <mhausenblas> q+
16:19:27 <mhausenblas> ack me
16:19:31 <juansequeda> zakim, mute me
16:19:31 <Zakim> juansequeda should now be muted
16:19:56 <Souri> q+
16:20:18 <Souri> -1 to giving them an idea that we have not thought enough about
16:20:18 <mhausenblas> q?
16:20:30 <mhausenblas> ack Souri
16:20:47 <mhausenblas> Michael: treat it like ISSUE-57, let the community decide?
16:20:50 <mhausenblas> Souri: no
16:22:08 <Ashok> q+
16:22:14 <ivan> q+
16:22:20 <mhausenblas> Michael: What is exactly the plan, Souri?
16:22:30 <ivan> q-
16:22:41 <mhausenblas> Souri: Just render the idea, not spell it out
16:22:43 <mhausenblas> q?
16:22:54 <mhausenblas> Ivan: this is not LC then
16:22:59 <mhausenblas> ack Ashok 
16:23:03 <dmcneil> +q
16:23:07 <mhausenblas> Ashok: Agree with Ivan
16:23:08 <mhausenblas> q?
16:23:36 <mhausenblas> Ashok: I was gonna ask if we can add features after LC and the answer was no IIUC
16:24:08 <mhausenblas> Ivan: Just to clarify - beyond editorial changes we'd need to issue a second LC
16:24:42 <ericP> 2 questions to ask re: whether LC comments bring you back to WG status:
16:24:47 <ericP>   does this change implementations?
16:24:50 <ericP>  is this likely to change the mind of commentors?
16:24:50 <ericP> .
16:25:03 <mhausenblas> Ashok: Looks like we could treat the translation scheme like ISSUE-57?
16:25:16 <mhausenblas> Michael: That's what I suggested, but Souri said no?
16:25:24 <cygri> q+
16:25:40 <mhausenblas> David: I agree with Michael/Ashok
16:25:44 <mhausenblas> ack cygri 
16:25:51 <ivan> ack dmcneil 
16:25:52 <Souri> We can come up with an alternate scheme for translation and then discuss it.
16:26:17 <ericP> it sounds like dmcneil is willing to push up the risk of a 2nd LC a bit in order to include the feature
16:26:32 <mhausenblas> Richard: I'd be OK with the idea to add it as a 'feature-at-risk' ala ISSUE-57
16:26:43 <mhausenblas> q?
16:26:46 <Souri> q+
16:26:51 <ivan> q+
16:26:56 <Souri> q-
16:27:01 <mhausenblas> q?
16:27:17 <mhausenblas> Richard: Re Souri's point concerning polishing
16:27:58 <mhausenblas> ... I think the public doesn't pay much attention before LC
16:28:11 <mhausenblas> ... so we can expect some good comments
16:28:26 <mhausenblas> ... would be open to changes
16:28:34 <mhausenblas> q?
16:28:40 <mhausenblas> ack ivan
16:28:54 <mhausenblas> Ivan: So, impl. are less of my concern
16:29:05 <mhausenblas> ... that in CR phase, really
16:29:20 <ericP> note that losing the CR gamble is expensive
16:29:27 <mhausenblas> ... but going out there with a lack of consensus is definitely not good
16:30:15 <mhausenblas> Ivan: If there are too many comments re a LC feature (such as translation scheme) we should be open to simply remove
16:30:17 <mhausenblas> q?
16:30:44 <cygri> q+
16:30:54 <mhausenblas> ack cygri 
16:31:43 <mhausenblas> Richard: ISSUE-57 re Turtle is in the same space, in fact
16:31:50 <Souri> q+
16:32:02 <mhausenblas> ack Souri 
16:32:24 <mhausenblas> Souri: We can discuss an alternate proposal for TS
16:33:06 <Souri> q+
16:33:20 <mhausenblas> q?
16:33:23 <mhausenblas> ack Souri 
16:34:08 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: The working group postpones the last call publication to the 16th of September beside translation schemes where a note describes the issue behind it
16:34:50 <dmcneil> +1
16:35:52 <cygri> q+
16:36:18 <mhausenblas> Ashok: we can remove it now and risk a 2nd LC, then
16:36:20 <mhausenblas> q?
16:36:34 <mhausenblas> Ivan: I'd be rather unhappy with it
16:36:42 <mhausenblas> ack cygri 
16:36:42 <Souri> +1 to revising the Translation Scheme proposal (to make it simpler) and them going to LC by 16-SEP-2011
16:37:03 <Souri> s/them going/then going/
16:38:15 <Souri> q+
16:38:26 <mhausenblas> ack Souri
16:39:01 <mhausenblas> Souri: So, we went through the latest write-up yesterday but didn't have time to change
16:39:33 <mhausenblas> q?
16:40:37 <mhausenblas> Richard: I'll be around theoretical but only have very limited time to devote to W3C stuff 
16:41:16 <mhausenblas> Richard: it would be great to have issues raised for the Translation Scheme
16:41:23 <Souri> makes sense
16:41:52 <mhausenblas> Souri: we can provide these issues by end of week
16:42:00 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: The working group postpones the last call publication to the 16th of September beside translation schemes where a note describes the issue behind it
16:45:18 <Souri> we had those four points only: translation scheme (we need a simpler scheme for mapping: <DB value(s), RDF term>), ISSUE-57 refinement of the note regarding the alternate proposal, correcting Sec 2.6 example, graphMap association with POMap
16:45:48 <dmcneil> +q
16:46:19 <mhausenblas> Ashok: If Souri, Seema and Richard sort out the issue this week, we can take the resolution next week
16:46:22 <mhausenblas> ack dmcneil 
16:46:47 <mhausenblas> (David asks a clarification question re feature-freeze)
16:46:49 <mhausenblas> q?
16:47:46 <mhausenblas> Richard: What we could say is that there are four issues (which we need to raise), then we could say after all these are resolved we're LC ready
16:47:48 <mhausenblas> q?
16:47:58 <Souri> ISSUE: Translation Scheme as proposed seems too complicated for the simple task of mapping <DB value(s), RDF term>
16:47:58 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-66 - Translation Scheme as proposed seems too complicated for the simple task of mapping <DB value(s), RDF term> ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/66/edit .
16:48:25 <mhausenblas> Ashok: Do the Editors think you can resolve it this week?
16:49:46 <mhausenblas> (discussion around what the issues are and if it is feasible to resolve it)
16:49:58 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:49:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/30-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:51:16 <dmcneil> +q
16:51:30 <mhausenblas> Michael: So, I understand that if W3C management now asks me when we go LC, I will say: once we're done with the issues, yes - we can not give any exact date ...? 
16:51:32 <mhausenblas> q?
16:51:36 <Souri> I have raised ISSUE-66 for the translation scheme
16:51:56 <mhausenblas> ack dmcneil 
16:52:18 <Souri> I am on vacation Fri and Tue
16:52:43 <mhausenblas> David: I don't see a lot of changes to get the work done (with the availability of Richard and Souri ...)
16:52:45 <mhausenblas> q?
16:53:02 <Souri> q+
16:53:07 <mhausenblas> q?
16:53:11 <mhausenblas> ack Souri
16:53:26 <mhausenblas> Souri: I'm positive to be able to resolve it this week
16:53:30 <mhausenblas> q?
16:54:26 <mhausenblas> Souri: Is it OK to resolve ISSUE via mailing list?
16:54:37 <mhausenblas> Ivan: Yes, up to us to define the policy
16:54:59 <Zakim> -dmcneil
16:55:00 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:55:01 <Zakim> -Souri
16:55:02 <mhausenblas> [meeting adjourned]
16:55:02 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
16:55:04 <Zakim> -Seema
16:55:05 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
16:55:07 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:55:11 <Zakim> -juansequeda
16:55:45 <ericP> juansequeda, http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directMapping/explicitFK#definition
16:56:08 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:56:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/30-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:57:37 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directMapping/explicitFK#emp-addr-ex1
16:58:13 <mhausenblas> trackbot, end telecon
16:58:13 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:58:13 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +3539149aaaa, mhausenblas, MacTed, juansequeda, +1.314.394.aabb, cygri, EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, dmcneil, Ivan, boris, +1.603.897.aacc,
16:58:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:58:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/30-rdb2rdf-minutes.html trackbot
16:58:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:58:15 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
16:58:16 <Zakim> ... Seema, +1.603.897.aadd, Souri