14:54:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
14:54:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-rd-irc
14:54:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:54:04 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
14:54:04 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
14:54:05 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
14:54:05 <trackbot> Date: 25 August 2011
14:54:09 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
14:54:09 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
14:54:11 <Zakim> 5. Timeline review - can be refined as needed: http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/planning#seminar [from sharper]
14:54:13 <Zakim> 6. Timeline Logistics - Next milestone is to create and announce a proper call for papers for this teleconference seminar. Look ahead and select a date for the teleconference
14:54:20 <Zakim> ... seminar. [from sharper]
14:54:25 <Zakim> 7. Any Other Business [from sharper]
14:54:26 <Zakim> 8. Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments). Topic - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Benchmarking_Web_Accessibility_Metrics [from sharper]
14:54:29 <Zakim> 9. Question Review - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Aug/0014.html [from sharper]
14:54:32 <Zakim> 10. Review of Draft First Call [from sharper]
14:54:34 <Zakim> 11. Any Other Business [from sharper]
14:54:35 <sharper> zakim, close item 5
14:54:35 <Zakim> agendum 5, Timeline review - can be refined as needed: http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/planning#seminar, closed
14:54:40 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:54:41 <Zakim> 6. Timeline Logistics - Next milestone is to create and announce a proper call for papers for this teleconference seminar. Look ahead and select a date for the teleconference
14:54:44 <Zakim> ... seminar. [from sharper]
14:54:44 <sharper> zakim, close item 6
14:54:44 <Zakim> agendum 6, Timeline Logistics - Next milestone is to create and announce a proper call for papers for this teleconference seminar. Look ahead and select a date for the
14:54:47 <Zakim> ... teleconference seminar., closed
14:54:48 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:54:49 <Zakim> 7. Any Other Business [from sharper]
14:54:50 <sharper> zakim, close item 7
14:54:50 <Zakim> agendum 7, Any Other Business, closed
14:54:51 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:54:52 <Zakim> 8. Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments). Topic - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Benchmarking_Web_Accessibility_Metrics [from sharper]
14:54:56 <sharper> zakim, close item 8
14:54:56 <Zakim> agendum 8, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments). Topic - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Benchmarking_Web_Accessibility_Metrics, closed
14:54:59 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:55:05 <Zakim> 9. Question Review - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Aug/0014.html [from sharper]
14:55:09 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
14:55:14 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
14:55:15 <Zakim> 9. Question Review - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Aug/0014.html [from sharper]
14:55:18 <Zakim> 10. Review of Draft First Call [from sharper]
14:55:19 <Zakim> 11. Any Other Business [from sharper]
14:55:25 <sharper> zakim, close item 9
14:55:25 <Zakim> agendum 9, Question Review - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Aug/0014.html, closed
14:55:27 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:55:29 <sharper> zakim, close item 10
14:55:29 <Zakim> 10. Review of Draft First Call [from sharper]
14:55:30 <Zakim> agendum 10, Review of Draft First Call, closed
14:55:30 <sharper> zakim, close item 11
14:55:31 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
14:55:32 <Zakim> 11. Any Other Business [from sharper]
14:55:34 <Zakim> agendum 11, Any Other Business, closed
14:55:35 <Zakim> I see nothing remaining on the agenda
14:55:47 <sharper> Chair: Harper_Simon
14:55:48 <sharper> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)
14:55:48 <sharper> Agenda+ Discussion and Editing of the Call Ready for Release - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Draft_version_of_the_call_for_papers
14:55:48 <sharper> Agenda+ Any Other Business 
14:56:22 <sharper> zakim, close item 12
14:56:22 <Zakim> agendum 12, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), closed
14:56:24 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:56:24 <sharper> zakim, close item 3
14:56:27 <Zakim> 13. Discussion and Editing of the Call Ready for Release - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Draft_version_of_the_call_for_papers [from sharper]
14:56:31 <sharper> zakim, close item 13
14:56:33 <Zakim> agendum 3, Committees and Duties. Decide on planning committee for the teleconference seminar (proposal that the editors also be the planning committee)., closed
14:56:35 <sharper> zakim, close item 14
14:56:36 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:56:38 <Zakim> 13. Discussion and Editing of the Call Ready for Release - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Draft_version_of_the_call_for_papers [from sharper]
14:56:43 <Zakim> agendum 13, Discussion and Editing of the Call Ready for Release - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Draft_version_of_the_call_for_papers, closed
14:56:48 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
14:56:52 <Zakim> 14. Any Other Business [from sharper]
14:56:54 <Zakim> agendum 14, Any Other Business, closed
14:57:01 <Zakim> I see nothing remaining on the agenda
14:57:04 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
14:57:14 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-rd-agenda.rdf
14:57:19 <sharper> Chair: Harper_Simon
14:57:19 <sharper> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)
14:57:19 <sharper> Agenda+ Discussion and Editing of the Call Ready for Release - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Draft_version_of_the_call_for_papers
14:57:20 <sharper> Agenda+ Any Other Business 
14:57:32 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
14:57:32 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-rd-agenda.rdf
14:57:45 <sharper> present+ Harper_Simon
14:57:55 <giorgio> giorgio has joined #rd
14:57:56 <sharper> Regrets+ Yesilada_Yeliz
14:58:12 <sharper> regrets+ O'Connor_Joshue
14:58:23 <sharper> present+ Brajnik_Giorgio
14:58:32 <sharper> rrsagent, make logs public
14:58:32 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:58:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-rd-minutes.html sharper
14:58:39 <Peter> Peter has joined #rd
14:58:42 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
14:58:42 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)." taken up [from sharper]
14:58:54 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()11:00AM has now started
14:59:12 <Zakim> +??P5
14:59:42 <Zakim> +??P56
15:00:06 <sharper> zakim, ??P56 is sharper
15:00:07 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
15:00:17 <sharper> zakim, ??P5 is giorgio
15:00:24 <Zakim> +giorgio; got it
15:00:38 <Zakim> +??P59
15:00:54 <markel> markel has joined #rd
15:01:05 <Zakim> -??P59
15:01:40 <sharper> present+ Thiessen_Peter
15:01:59 <sharper> present+ Vigo_Markel
15:02:00 <vivienne> vivienne has joined #rd
15:02:02 <Zakim> +??P63
15:02:10 <Zakim> +??P59
15:02:18 <sharper> zakim, ??P63 is markel
15:02:30 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:31 <sharper> zakim, ??P59 is sharper Peter
15:02:44 <Zakim> +markel; got it
15:02:46 <Zakim> +??P1
15:03:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see giorgio, sharper, markel, ??P59, ??P1
15:03:03 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P59 is sharper Peter', sharper
15:03:10 <sharper> zakim, ??P1 is shadi
15:03:31 <sharper> member:zakim, ??P59 is really member:Peter
15:03:45 <sharper> zakim, ??59 is really Peter
15:03:47 <Zakim> +shadi; got it
15:04:06 <thiessenp> (changed name to thiessenp just to simplify)
15:04:09 <Zakim> +??P65
15:04:15 <sharper> zakim, ??P56 is sharper
15:04:32 <vivienne> zakim,mute me
15:04:34 <shadi> zakim, agenda?
15:04:36 <Zakim> sorry, sharper, I do not recognize a party named '??59'
15:05:33 <Zakim> I already had ??P56 as sharper, sharper
15:06:00 <Zakim> sorry, vivienne, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:06:06 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
15:06:07 <Zakim> 15. Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [from sharper]
15:06:11 <Zakim> 16. Discussion and Editing of the Call Ready for Release - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Draft_version_of_the_call_for_papers [from sharper]
15:06:14 <giorgio> shadi, I hear a lot of echo when you are talking.
15:06:16 <Zakim> 17. Any Other Business [from sharper]
15:07:13 <sharper> zakim, P56 is really thiessenp
15:07:32 <vivienne> I have no idea
15:07:37 <sharper> zakim, ??P65 is vivienne
15:08:00 <Zakim> sorry, sharper, I do not recognize a party named 'P56'
15:08:14 <Zakim> +vivienne; got it
15:08:32 <sharper> zakim, ??P65 is really thiessnp
15:08:42 <Zakim> +thiessnp; got it
15:09:01 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:09:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see giorgio, sharper, markel, ??P59, shadi, thiessnp
15:09:31 <shadi> zakim, thiessenp is really vivienne 
15:09:31 <Zakim> sorry, shadi, I do not recognize a party named 'thiessenp'
15:09:43 <shadi> zakim, thiessnp is really vivienne 
15:09:43 <Zakim> +vivienne; got it
15:09:55 <shadi> zakim, ??p59 is thiessenp 
15:09:55 <Zakim> +thiessenp; got it
15:10:00 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:10:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see giorgio, sharper, markel, thiessenp, shadi, vivienne
15:10:18 <shadi> scribe: shadi
15:10:37 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 16
15:10:37 <Zakim> agendum 16. "Discussion and Editing of the Call Ready for Release - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Draft_version_of_the_call_for_papers" taken up [from sharper]
15:11:12 <vivienne> there's a shocking echo
15:11:54 <shadi> SH: Giorgio and Markel will introduce draft call and talk about next steps
15:12:12 <shadi> ...want to make sure we all agree on it on this call
15:12:27 <shadi> ...so that we can announce maybe end next week
15:13:18 <shadi> MV: changed requirement from 2 pages to 1000 words
15:13:38 <shadi> ...modified accessibility conformance versus accessibility in use
15:14:31 <shadi> ...section about attribution as discussed last week
15:15:16 <shadi> ...dates still depend on when the webinar will take place
15:15:48 <shadi> GB: thank you for writing it Markel, only had initial input
15:16:09 <shadi> ...also need to consider how much time people have for writing the white paper
15:16:44 <shadi> ...need to allow some time to disseminate the call, and for people to think about what they want to contribute
15:17:10 <shadi> q+ to agree with giorgio and to talk about editorial changes
15:17:18 <shadi> MV: agree
15:17:30 <shadi> GB: what kind of constraints do we have for dates?
15:18:09 <shadi> SH: not a particular constraint but want to do ~4 seminars per year so need one on a quartely basis
15:18:27 <shadi> ...1000 words is not even two pages so quite ok
15:19:00 <shadi> ...can be a bit more liberal for this first seminar but should not go beyond 1st december week
15:19:04 <vivienne> There are a couple of 'typos' in paragraphs 3&4.  I'm not sure about the time - maybe too short?
15:19:07 <shadi> ack me
15:19:07 <Zakim> shadi, you wanted to agree with giorgio and to talk about editorial changes
15:20:42 <markel> if the weminar can take place in the beginning of Sep we can postpone the submission deadline to mid Oct
15:21:13 <sharper> q+
15:21:21 <thiessenp> +1 a little more time (CSUN deadline conflict, and 1-month short time)
15:22:00 <sharper> ack me
15:22:48 <shadi> SAZ: agree that need to be more linient, also competing with CSUN call for papers
15:22:50 <markel> I'm happy with that too, Si
15:24:20 <giorgio> q+
15:24:33 <shadi> ...but certainly not have beyond early december
15:24:50 <shadi> ...also think the draft call needs quite some work
15:24:53 <thiessenp> +1 more structure (good for skimming :)
15:25:08 <shadi> ...can draft a suggested change
15:26:03 <markel> q+
15:26:22 <sharper> ack giorgio
15:26:26 <shadi> SH: concerned that this is going on but happy to see suggested change
15:26:30 <shadi> ack g
15:26:55 <shadi> GB: also have number of suggested changes
15:27:12 <shadi> ...why don't we go over some of the most important issues?
15:27:29 <sharper> sck markel
15:27:30 <shadi> ack markel 
15:28:01 <shadi> MV: very different call for papers from the last one
15:28:33 <shadi> ...trying to give a more typical conference call for papers
15:29:00 <shadi> ...happy to discuss now
15:29:02 <vivienne> q+
15:29:08 <vivienne> zakim, unmutr me
15:29:08 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unmutr me', vivienne
15:29:08 <shadi> ack vi
15:29:11 <vivienne> unmute me
15:29:17 <vivienne> zakim, unmute me
15:29:17 <Zakim> vivienne was not muted, vivienne
15:29:56 <shadi> VC: happy with all of it but just see some typograhpical issues
15:30:13 <shadi> SH: can you make the changes directly to the wiki?
15:30:31 <shadi> q+
15:30:41 <sharper> ack shadi
15:30:44 <vivienne> zakim, mute me
15:30:44 <Zakim> vivienne should now be muted
15:31:58 <giorgio> q+
15:33:41 <markel> q+
15:34:09 <sharper> ack giorgio
15:34:36 <shadi> SAZ: concerned about setting the expectation of "defining and benchmarking" metrics
15:35:07 <shadi> ...also about the references to W3C Note which may promote people to write W3C Notes that are not from W3C
15:35:19 <shadi> ...also suggest more headings and less repetiveness
15:35:57 <shadi> GB: agree we will not be defining metrics but it is an important venue to propose metrics
15:36:17 <shadi> ...concerned about "white paper" which may be daunting
15:37:10 <shadi> ...maybe also describe coined terms "conformance accessibility" and "accessibility in use"
15:37:51 <shadi> ...also add request for people to describe how they validated the quality of their framework
15:37:54 <shadi> q+
15:38:20 <shadi> SH: will provide template
15:38:23 <sharper> ack markel
15:39:18 <shadi> MV: we are not knowledgeable of wording about W3C Notes etc, so shadi please edit directly
15:40:05 <shadi> ...decided to use "white paper" rather than "position paper" to avoid less scientific positions
15:40:07 <giorgio> shall we call them 'research abstracts'?
15:40:28 <markel> yes
15:40:31 <markel> +1
15:40:37 <shadi> SH: maybe also "extended research abstracts"
15:40:40 <sharper> ack shadi
15:42:11 <thiessenp> +1 research abstracts - unambiguous for industry and practitioners about what's expected
15:42:48 <vivienne> I have just made the couple of typographical corrections I saw that were required.
15:43:20 <shadi> SAZ: please add content issues to the wiki straight away
15:43:42 <shadi> ...will try to be much more editorial rather than content
15:44:21 <giorgio> I agree with simon
15:45:03 <shadi> GB: will work on the changes today
15:45:06 <markel> we should release the CFP next week at the latest
15:46:37 <markel> q+
15:47:10 <markel> are we sure we want a call for review?
15:48:13 <giorgio> I agree; we should get it out sooner.
15:48:26 <vivienne> I think the sooner we get it out, the better.  Everyone on the list has already been asked to contribute.
15:48:28 <thiessenp> agreed: will give wiki a close read this week for edits / comments
15:49:00 <sharper> ack markel
15:50:08 <shadi> SH: will send a note out the group after the changes early next week
15:50:10 <giorgio> I agree with simon, to close it next week.
15:50:24 <shadi> ...will take a decision on next week's call
15:50:40 <shadi> SAZ: will try to prepare related announcement in parallel
15:50:51 <markel> Ok with that
15:50:54 <thiessenp> sounds good
15:50:55 <giorgio> ok with me
15:50:56 <vivienne> I'm okay with that
15:51:00 <sharper> +1 from me
15:51:39 <giorgio> ok, cheers
15:51:40 <vivienne> okay thanks
15:51:42 <thiessenp> cheers everyone - thanks Shadi for joining on vacation!
15:51:52 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
15:51:52 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:51:52 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been sharper, giorgio, markel, shadi, vivienne, thiessenp
15:51:53 <giorgio> bye
15:51:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:51:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-rd-minutes.html trackbot
15:51:54 <vivienne> bye
15:51:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:51:54 <RRSAgent> I see no action items