14:58:34 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y 14:58:34 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-html-a11y-irc 14:58:36 RRSAgent, make logs world 14:58:36 Zakim has joined #html-a11y 14:58:38 Zakim, this will be 2119 14:58:38 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes 14:58:39 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 14:58:39 Date: 25 August 2011 14:58:49 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has now started 14:59:06 zakim, who's here? 14:59:06 On the phone I see no one 14:59:07 On IRC I see RRSAgent, janina, MichaelC, davidb, MikeSmith, trackbot, [tm] 14:59:13 +??P54 14:59:24 zakim, ??P54 is Janina 14:59:25 +Janina; got it 14:59:52 Zakim, call Mike 14:59:52 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made 14:59:54 +Mike 15:03:21 +John_Foliot 15:04:29 JF has joined #html-a11y 15:05:24 Judy has joined #html-a11y 15:05:31 zakim, who's here? 15:06:09 +Judy 15:06:43 On the phone I see Janina, Mike, John_Foliot, Judy 15:07:41 On IRC I see Judy, JF, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, MichaelC, davidb, MikeSmith, trackbot, [tm] 15:09:22 zakim, who's here? 15:09:22 On the phone I see Janina, Mike, John_Foliot, Judy 15:09:25 On IRC I see Judy, JF, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, MichaelC, davidb, MikeSmith, trackbot, [tm] 15:12:32 +Michael_Cooper 15:13:53 +??P12 15:14:32 LeonieWatson has joined #html-a11y 15:15:56 zakim, ??P12 is Léonie_Watson 15:15:56 +Léonie_Watson; got it 15:16:32 scribe: JF 15:16:51 MC: summary of the work of bug-triage team 15:17:28 members of team include Leonie, M. Cooper, Marco Ranon, Hans Hillen, Everett Zuefeltt 15:17:39 have a working plan for the next few weeks 15:17:51 -> http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-a11y-bugs-minutes Bug triage minutes 23 August 2011 15:18:07 bug triage sub-team looking at a11y bugs since LC that aren't yet a11ytf 15:18:11 to decide if they need to be TF priorities 15:18:23 JS: looking at the consensus policy, and see if we can tweak it to better reflect how we are working today 15:18:29 towards a next step which is pushing back on priority assignments made by chairs 15:18:34 if needed 15:18:44 a window for that in early september 15:19:02 JS: it appears for example that much of the work has been emerging from the sub-teams 15:19:02 next sub-team will look at all bugs since LC and determine if they have a11y relationship 15:19:16 then proceed with triaging those over the upcoming quarter 15:19:48 it seems however that we are voting 3 times on the same issue 15:19:51 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Aug/0567.html 15:20:03 which leads to some confusion 15:20:12 chair: Janina_Sajka 15:20:20 JS: if we can reduce the amount of voting, even down to 2, then that is a win 15:20:46 would like to see us acknowledge that much of the heavy lifting is being done at the sub-team level 15:21:17 and if we assign work-effort to a sub-team, that this TF then support the expertw charged with that work 15:21:32 q+ 15:21:35 so perhaps allow the sub-teams to work a little more inofrmally 15:21:50 s/inofrmally/informally 15:22:47 JS: looking at both media and canvas, this larger TF normally accepted the recommendations of the sub-team without question 15:23:39 JB: have started to brains-storm, but we need to be very clear on what problem(s) we aqre trying to solve 15:23:53 it seems that perhaps the process is overly complex 15:24:38 JB: the multi step nature means that it can cause some delay 15:24:59 perhaps associated to the WBS survey mechanism 15:26:35 JB: so, envisioning different scenarios, are the ways we can avoid being delayed. Perhaps 2 levels of formality/process 15:27:03 so for example bug filing and issue of re-open requests and what-not 15:27:27 Perhaps those could be assigned to the sub-groups. But there may also be other things that would be better handled with a more formal process 15:28:04 so it would be useful to enumerate issues and scenarios where the process is stalling work, and then look to see if we can revisit the process there 15:28:39 JS: one thing specifically missing is because we do not say anything about the sub-teams in the consensus policy process 15:28:59 so we cannot point to the fact that the sub-teams are working on a particular issue/point 15:29:18 JB: not sure however if that addresses the requirement for different work-flow 15:29:35 JS: where to kick into a more formal process is worth investigating 15:30:13 JS: Looking at issues within the media sub-team, that group discussed and reach agreement, and then it was pushed through often directly to the larger 15:30:26 WG without it going through this Thursday meeting 15:30:52 q? 15:30:53 (it skiped right oinofrmally this group), and it was non-controversial 15:30:53 q+ 15:31:20 s/oinofrmally /over 15:31:41 JB: are you then proposing to draft something different for others to review? 15:31:51 JS: yes, exactly. just seeking feedback 15:31:58 ack judy 15:33:17 q+ 15:36:43 q- 15:36:56 JS: likes that the facilitators can guide discussion and move things forward 15:37:24 agree that there are other issues that might be more sensitive, and so sensitive things are likely to end up in surveys 15:37:29 +Rich 15:37:43 media, canvas, aria-mappings were less controversial 15:37:48 richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y 15:38:38 q+ 15:39:10 ack L 15:39:26 LW: agree in principle with what Janina is proposing 15:39:52 JS: wonders if Mike TM has any feedback about this line of process discussion 15:39:55 -Judy 15:40:26 MS: the way the HTML5 process has evolved is that it was originally written by maciej, and then has been fine-tuned over the longer haul 15:40:49 MS: but it all starts with somebody initially writing up something, and then seeking wider feedback 15:41:07 MS: so that would need to happen. but having a streamlined process is overall a good thing 15:41:41 JS: seems I am volunteering to write a new draft - hopefully I can have that in early September 15:42:10 JS: ASking Rich for feedback on Canvas 15:42:25 RS: waiting for Ian to respond to Chalrs Pritchard re: changes to focus management 15:42:42 RS: there was something for scroll-into-view 15:43:08 talked with Jonas, and if wee can put the paths in, then we can use a CSS property that is already in the layout engine 15:43:30 just need to ensue that the CP for that, that anything having to do with CSS functions would also be applicable there 15:43:38 so agreed that it could be closed 15:44:11 s/Chalrs/Charles 15:44:41 RS: another defect is on content-editable and designmode 15:45:06 Ayreh agreed that this needed to be re-written, and that is moving forward 15:45:23 JS: this will be re-integrated into the HTML5 spec 15:45:40 RS: the other issue is around the standardized keyboard input 15:46:07 instead of putting those features into that part of the document, they wanted to put it into a seperate authoring spec 15:47:00 RS: Ayreh has created a seperate document - issue is that it is a document outside of W3C, even though it is actually a good ide 15:47:09 s/ide/idea 15:47:33 there is some discussion about how to bring that into the W3C. Ayreh not keen on following the W3C process 15:48:17 RS: reading the note from Ayreh about W3C Community Groups 15:48:57 so this looks like Ayreh will look to use this forum to bring it back into W3C 15:49:30 RS: I think this is a good thing that the W3C is making things more open and nimble then it's a good thing 15:49:48 and this editing spec likely moving into W3C space is an example of why 15:50:29 https://plus.google.com/stream/circles/p2c387a7408241602 15:50:40 +Judy 15:50:52 RS: not sure if everyone can read that, but this is/was Ayreh's posting 15:52:44 http://www.w3.org/community/editing/ 15:54:51 q? 15:55:23 RS: Have heard a bit about Community Groups, but curious how that process and not being on Rec Track works 15:55:41 JB: I am also investigating this at this time, but not ready to answer at this time 15:56:11 JB: text sub-team udate 15:56:20 s/udate/update 15:56:52 have been looking at the table summary issue, the meta generator issue, and the response to Jonas' longdesc CP 15:57:29 with meta-name and summary we are still looking for more feedback 15:57:45 John's draft response to Jonas - he's looking for more editorial feedback 15:58:41 JB; we have also noted that the next 2 Mondays present schedule conflicts 15:59:02 so we are looking at a possible day-shift as a one-off 15:59:39 (wonders if aiming for a Tuesday 4:00 PM Boston time would work - wondering on impact for European attendees) 16:00:20 JB: but looking to move it to a more regular time slot that is not Monday 16:01:37 JB: will try some alternative dates and times on the list 16:02:26 LW: the ideal time for me would be Tuesday before or after the bug-triage call (seems like tht is 11:00 PM Bos) 16:02:55 JS: concerned about making a permanent move as that might impact on European participation 16:03:31 -Rich 16:03:44 -Mike 16:03:45 zakim, bye 16:03:45 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Janina, Mike, John_Foliot, Judy, Michael_Cooper, Léonie_Watson, Rich 16:03:45 Zakim has left #html-a11y 16:03:54 rrsagent, make logs public 16:04:07 rrsagent, make minutes 16:04:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-html-a11y-minutes.html JF 16:05:04 rrsagent, please part 16:05:04 I see no action items