IRC log of webtv on 2011-08-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:03:24 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #webtv

14:03:24 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-webtv-irc

14:03:40 [Zakim]

+??P25

14:03:51 [aizu]

Zakim, ??P25 is me

14:03:51 [Zakim]

+aizu; got it

14:03:54 [giuseppe]

zakim, ??p20 is me

14:03:54 [Zakim]

+giuseppe; got it

14:04:02 [giuseppe]

zakim, ??p20 is not me

14:04:02 [Zakim]

I don't understand '??p20 is not me', giuseppe

14:04:21 [Clarke]

Meeting: Home Networking Task Force

14:04:27 [Zakim]

+David_Corvoysier

14:05:11 [dcorvoysier]

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14:05:20 [Clarke]

Chair: giuseppe

14:06:10 [giuseppe]

http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Requirements

14:06:24 [Clarke]

giuseppe: review requirements document

14:07:15 [jcdufourd]

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14:07:41 [kaz]

kaz has joined #webtv

14:07:46 [narm_gadiraju]

narm_gadiraju has joined #webtv

14:07:50 [kaz]

zakim, call kazuyuki-617

14:07:50 [Zakim]

ok, kaz; the call is being made

14:07:51 [Zakim]

+Kazuyuki

14:07:54 [Clarke]

giuseppe: what do you think about just having use cases and requirements in requirements document and removing other sections?

14:07:57 [Bob]

Bob has joined #webtv

14:08:02 [giuseppe]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2011Aug/0085.html

14:08:28 [Zakim]

+??P39

14:08:36 [Zakim]

+JanL

14:08:56 [Clarke]

Kaz, I'm acting as scribe, but I'm not sure I'm doing it right. You may want to check that things are getting recorded.

14:09:06 [JanL]

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14:09:07 [rbardini]

rbardini has joined #webtv

14:09:09 [jcdufourd]

zakim, +??P39 is jcdufourd

14:09:09 [Zakim]

sorry, jcdufourd, I do not recognize a party named '+??P39'

14:09:10 [kaz]

zakim, ??P39 is Narm(?)

14:09:10 [Zakim]

+Narm(?); got it

14:09:27 [kaz]

zakim, Narm(?) is jcdufourd

14:09:27 [Zakim]

+jcdufourd; got it

14:10:06 [Zakim]

+Richard_Bardini

14:10:26 [Clarke]

giuseppe: Do people agree with the change I proposed about the header?

14:11:07 [mav]

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14:11:27 [Clarke]

russell: I'm okay with dropping the backwards compatibility requirement

14:11:43 [davidmays]

zakim, who is noisy?

14:11:53 [Zakim]

davidmays, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Joseph_Scheuhammer (33%), MattH (19%), Giuseppe (84%)

14:12:00 [kaz]

kaz has joined #webtv

14:12:16 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-webtv-minutes.html kaz

14:12:33 [panze]

panze has joined #webtv

14:12:53 [Clarke]

Russell_Berkoff: we may want to continue to work on item number 1 (requirement that headers can issue commands, working information for UA, etc.)

14:13:08 [Clarke]

...requirements should explicitly cover the three cases

14:13:41 [Clarke]

Kaz, I knew I was forgetting something. Thanks

14:14:44 [kaz]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2011Aug/0116.html

14:15:30 [Clarke]

giuseppe: I'm concerned that the header issue may restrict application to a particular protocol.

14:15:38 [kaz]

i/Home_Network_TF_Requirements/topic: Requirement document review/

14:16:26 [Clarke]

Russell_Berkoff: why don't we split the difference and just identify the broad categories?

14:16:54 [mav]

I'm not able to dial in. Keeps saying the conference is full.

14:17:02 [Clarke]

giuseppe: look at the text I provided and make comments.

14:17:36 [Clarke]

Russell_Berkoff: examples may clarify what the requirements should be

14:18:08 [Clarke]

Russell_Berkoff: so you will merge and make my requirements informative?

14:18:10 [Clarke]

giuseppe: yes

14:18:43 [Clarke]

giuseppe: next, additional section about related work

14:19:14 [kaz]

kaz has joined #webtv

14:19:24 [Clarke]

giuseppe: just informative part for work members have done that helped generate use cases

14:19:41 [Clarke]

giuseppe: Do people agree with including this secion?

14:20:37 [Clarke]

giuseppe: referring to section in requirements document mentioning work from BBC, Opera, CableLabs

14:20:50 [kaz]

zakim, code?

14:20:50 [Zakim]

the conference code is 93288 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), kaz

14:20:54 [Clarke]

Russell_Berkoff: I'd like to add a submission to that section

14:21:01 [MattH]

+q

14:21:33 [Clarke]

giuseppe: You can mention material that is related to use cases (e.g. prototypes, previous work, etc.)

14:22:28 [Clarke]

MattH: I think it sounds like an excellent idea to also include a reference to CEA 2014 with an explanation about why it is useful

14:22:45 [Clarke]

...I'd also like to see some additional text about the CableLabs submission

14:23:10 [Clarke]

...it should highlight thinks people would like to know.

14:23:30 [Clarke]

Russell_Berkoff: I will include some additional text about CEA 2014

14:23:41 [giuseppe]

q?

14:23:44 [giuseppe]

ack

14:23:47 [giuseppe]

q?

14:24:03 [Clarke]

Narm: what is the reason for including this section?

14:24:32 [kaz]

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14:24:47 [Clarke]

giuseppe: It is just informative. It is good to provide the reader about related work people have been doing. It shows real prototyping work. It's just informative. No recommendation.

14:26:15 [kaz]

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14:26:18 [Clarke]

giuseppe: having links to things we have to pay for or that are proprietary is not useful, but other things can be included. We should try not to let the section get too big.

14:27:10 [Clarke]

giuseppe: I will include submissions that have already been proposed. People can start proposing other items.

14:28:07 [Clarke]

MattH: The particular work of this task force is a direct link that would enable communication on the home network. This is not a cloud-based service.

14:28:51 [Clarke]

Bob: I agree. My comment was more focussed on being more specific on application to application on accessing a home networked service. You can see my suggested text.

14:29:18 [kaz]

kaz has joined #webtv

14:29:20 [Clarke]

giuseppe: I'm concerned about the term "client." It seems too vague.

14:29:57 [Clarke]

giuseppe: Maybe we can clarify using "services" and "devices"

14:30:01 [kaz]

kaz has joined #webtv

14:30:19 [Clarke]

MattH: Maybe use "application" instead of "client"

14:30:25 [Zakim]

-Kazuyuki

14:30:42 [Clarke]

Bob: That's fine

14:30:59 [kaz]

kaz has joined #webtv

14:31:07 [Clarke]

Action: replace "client" with "application"

14:31:07 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - replace

14:31:18 [kaz]

zakim, call kazuyuki-skype

14:31:20 [Zakim]

ok, kaz; the call is being made

14:31:23 [Zakim]

+Kazuyuki

14:31:48 [Clarke]

giuseppe: next on the agenda is about priority of requirements

14:32:18 [Clarke]

giuseppe: Francois, and Matt and Bob have commented

14:32:52 [kaz]

kaz has joined #webtv

14:33:02 [Clarke]

giuseppe: Mark V. suggested rating based on the value of "enabling" use cases

14:33:27 [Clarke]

Russell_Berkoff: what are the relative advantages of this exercise?

14:33:37 [Zakim]

+Kazuyuki.a

14:33:58 [Clarke]

...maybe working groups should determine importance of requirements

14:35:16 [kaz]

zakim, drop Kazuyuki.a

14:35:16 [Zakim]

Kazuyuki.a is being disconnected

14:35:16 [kaz]

zakim, drop Kazuyuki

14:35:18 [Zakim]

Kazuyuki is being disconnected

14:35:18 [Zakim]

-Kazuyuki.a

14:35:18 [Zakim]

-Kazuyuki

14:35:18 [Clarke]

giuseppe: It is more feedback from the participants. Important requirements may help to make decisions so implementations can begin

14:36:06 [Zakim]

+Kazuyuki

14:36:08 [Clarke]

...it doesn't limit the specification, but gives some guidance for the specification

14:36:52 [Clarke]

...some use requirements enable many use cases. They may be more urgent

14:36:57 [kaz]

zakim, drop Kazuyuki

14:36:57 [Zakim]

Kazuyuki is being disconnected

14:36:58 [Zakim]

-Kazuyuki

14:37:30 [Clarke]

...it may be useful for the working committee

14:37:57 [Clarke]

giuseppe: Bob, do you want to go through your requirements?

14:38:02 [Clarke]

Bob: Yes

14:38:18 [Clarke]

...my first comment is on application trust level

14:39:31 [Clarke]

...I think this is a second level priority. We've discussed low and high-level APIs and we decided that low-level were more important. This requirement implies a certain level of API in the user agent.

14:40:04 [Clarke]

giuseppe: One option could indicate security requirements as high-priority

14:40:27 [MattH]

+q

14:40:59 [Clarke]

giuseppe: this will drive the solution. If a particular solution can't meet the requirement, then it points to a different solution.

14:41:04 [Zakim]

+ +1.215.286.aabb

14:41:33 [Clarke]

Bob: By definition it's in scope if we make it a requirement.

14:41:58 [mav]

i just joined (finally)

14:42:03 [Clarke]

giuseppe: even with a low-level API you can have the discussion

14:42:37 [Clarke]

Bob: it's not obvious to me that that is true

14:43:11 [Clarke]

...without providing some generic JavaScript level trust infrastructure

14:43:45 [kaz_]

kaz_ has joined #webtv

14:44:02 [Clarke]

giuseppe: we could remove security from a discussion of priority and just say separately that security is required.

14:44:53 [Clarke]

Bob: can we put some language in the requirment and maybe the scope of that is dependent upon the architecture

14:45:26 [MattH]

q-

14:45:38 [Clarke]

Bob: removing security from the priority discussion is fine

14:45:51 [Clarke]

giuseppe: content protection

14:46:20 [Clarke]

Bob: I don't think the API generated by this group will address that

14:46:43 [igarashi]

would u spealk loundly? Russel.

14:47:05 [kaz]

kaz has joined #webtv

14:47:13 [Clarke]

...maybe make it clear that the implementation must support DRM

14:47:50 [Clarke]

Bob: I think the requirement is out of scope.

14:48:08 [Clarke]

giuseppe: I'm fine with removing it from scope

14:48:14 [Clarke]

I think it's out of scope

14:49:10 [Clarke]

I think "compatibility" with DRM systems is okay but more specifics are out of scope

14:49:42 [Clarke]

giuseppe: take a look at the actual text and make suggestions to change or drop. I'm okay with dropping it.

14:50:00 [Clarke]

narm_gadiraju: I think we can drop it

14:50:41 [Clarke]

Russell_Berkoff: in CEA 2014 it just identifies DRM so the player can know what to do

14:50:52 [Clarke]

Bob: I can provide some suggested text

14:50:54 [narm_gadiraju]

I said we should not drop it but consider changing to include identification of DRMs

14:50:56 [kaz]

zakim, aabb is mav

14:50:56 [Zakim]

+mav; got it

14:50:56 [kaz]

zakim, call kazuyuki-617

14:50:57 [Zakim]

ok, kaz; the call is being made

14:50:57 [Zakim]

+Kazuyuki

14:51:04 [Clarke]

Russell_Berkoff: I will submit some text also

14:51:31 [Clarke]

giuseppe: we will try to propose by next week since it's supposed to be our last call

14:51:43 [Clarke]

...next is media identification

14:51:59 [giuseppe]

zakim, who is making noise?

14:52:10 [Zakim]

giuseppe, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MattH (13%), giuseppe (73%), ??P22 (18%)

14:52:21 [narm_gadiraju]

can the speaker, please speak up

14:52:54 [kaz]

zakim, who is noisy?

14:53:05 [Zakim]

kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Giuseppe (24%), giuseppe (50%), ??P22 (94%)

14:53:47 [Clarke]

zakim, mute ??P22

14:53:47 [Zakim]

??P22 should now be muted

14:54:22 [Clarke]

Bob: my comment is that the API may determine the level that content indentificatio is relevant

14:54:24 [giuseppe]

kaz, is priobably also "giuseppe" (I accidentaly attached it to me)

14:54:24 [kaz]

zakim, mute ??P22

14:54:24 [Zakim]

??P22 was already muted, kaz

14:54:24 [kaz]

zakim, unmute ??P22

14:54:25 [kaz]

zakim, mute igarashi

14:54:25 [Zakim]

??P22 should no longer be muted

14:54:25 [kaz]

zakim, unmute igarashi

14:54:26 [kaz]

zakim, who is noisy?

14:54:26 [Zakim]

sorry, kaz, I do not know which phone connection belongs to igarashi

14:54:27 [Zakim]

sorry, kaz, I do not know which phone connection belongs to igarashi

14:54:36 [Zakim]

kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: giuseppe (10%)

14:55:13 [Clarke]

MattH: Do we need to split the discussion on requirements based on low or high-level APIs?

14:55:31 [giuseppe]

zakim, mute giuseppe

14:55:31 [Zakim]

'giuseppe' is ambiguous, giuseppe

14:55:40 [Clarke]

Bob: Whether they will ultimately be covered by an implementation is dependent on the API level

14:55:58 [kaz]

zakim, giuseppe is somebody

14:55:58 [Zakim]

sorry, kaz, I do not recognize a party named 'giuseppe'

14:55:58 [kaz]

zakim, mute somebody

14:56:00 [Zakim]

sorry, kaz, I do not know which phone connection belongs to somebody

14:56:59 [Clarke]

giuseppe: This may be a more generic requirement. Maybe it should be handled outside the priority discussion.

14:57:35 [Clarke]

...maybe we consider it like security.

14:57:41 [Clarke]

MattH: that makes sense

14:58:07 [Clarke]

Russell_Berkoff: one thing not covered in requirements is any notion of home-to-home or groups of homes.

14:58:48 [Clarke]

...not commonly discussed. UPnP says something about it in RemoteAccess:2. This may become more important.

14:58:58 [Clarke]

...May want more discussion on this on reflector

14:59:27 [MattH]

q+

14:59:30 [Clarke]

giueseppe: I would rather say we have talked about it, but never really discussed it in detail. It may be a "phase 2" discussion.

14:59:45 [Clarke]

Russell_Berkoff: maybe reference to future work

15:00:28 [Clarke]

giuseppe: Just a metion would be too vague. I prefer to keep the document clear and address items the working group can work on.

15:00:45 [Clarke]

MattH: maybe make a note to the task force to take this topic up later

15:01:12 [Clarke]

Russell_Berkoff: some mention of it would be okay.

15:01:16 [kaz]

kaz has joined #webtv

15:01:37 [Clarke]

giuseppe: we can discuss it later

15:02:21 [Clarke]

Bob: maybe there are several things like this that we want to consider in the future. Maybe a section of the report to document this.

15:02:34 [Clarke]

giuseppe: that may be a good solution

15:02:47 [kaz]

Present: rbardini, JanL, jcdufourd, dcorvoysier, aizu, igarashi, davidmays, Clarke, giuseppe, MattH, Russell_Berkoff, panze, Bob, narm_gadiraju, mav, kaz

15:02:48 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-webtv-minutes.html kaz

15:03:17 [Clarke]

...I will update document to reflect prioritization discussion.

15:03:34 [Clarke]

...thanks

15:03:36 [Zakim]

-JanL

15:03:37 [Zakim]

-David_Corvoysier

15:03:38 [Zakim]

-MattH

15:03:40 [Zakim]

-??P22

15:03:43 [Zakim]

-davidmays

15:03:44 [Zakim]

-aizu

15:03:46 [Zakim]

-jcdufourd

15:03:48 [Zakim]

- +1.678.795.aaaa

15:03:49 [davidmays]

davidmays has left #webtv

15:03:50 [Zakim]

-Giuseppe

15:03:52 [Zakim]

-Joseph_Scheuhammer

15:03:55 [Zakim]

-mav

15:03:57 [Zakim]

-giuseppe

15:03:58 [Zakim]

-Richard_Bardini

15:04:01 [Zakim]

-Kazuyuki

15:04:03 [Zakim]

-Tatsuya_Igarashi

15:04:40 [Clarke]

Clarke has joined #webtv

15:04:53 [Clarke]

zakim, bye

15:04:53 [Zakim]

leaving. As of this point the attendees were davidmays, +1.678.795.aaaa, Joseph_Scheuhammer, MattH, Giuseppe, Clarke, Tatsuya_Igarashi, aizu, David_Corvoysier, Kazuyuki, JanL,

15:04:53 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #webtv

15:04:56 [Zakim]

... jcdufourd, Richard_Bardini, Kazuyuki.a, +1.215.286.aabb, mav

15:05:03 [Clarke]

RRSAgent bye

15:05:12 [Clarke]

rrsagent, bye

15:05:12 [RRSAgent]

I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-webtv-actions.rdf :

15:05:12 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: replace "client" with "application" [1]

15:05:12 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-webtv-irc#T14-31-07