IRC log of webtv on 2011-08-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:03:24 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #webtv
14:03:24 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-webtv-irc
14:03:40 [Zakim]
+??P25
14:03:51 [aizu]
Zakim, ??P25 is me
14:03:51 [Zakim]
+aizu; got it
14:03:54 [giuseppe]
zakim, ??p20 is me
14:03:54 [Zakim]
+giuseppe; got it
14:04:02 [giuseppe]
zakim, ??p20 is not me
14:04:02 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??p20 is not me', giuseppe
14:04:21 [Clarke]
Meeting: Home Networking Task Force
14:04:27 [Zakim]
+David_Corvoysier
14:05:11 [dcorvoysier]
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14:05:20 [Clarke]
Chair: giuseppe
14:06:10 [giuseppe]
http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Requirements
14:06:24 [Clarke]
giuseppe: review requirements document
14:07:15 [jcdufourd]
jcdufourd has joined #webtv
14:07:41 [kaz]
kaz has joined #webtv
14:07:46 [narm_gadiraju]
narm_gadiraju has joined #webtv
14:07:50 [kaz]
zakim, call kazuyuki-617
14:07:50 [Zakim]
ok, kaz; the call is being made
14:07:51 [Zakim]
+Kazuyuki
14:07:54 [Clarke]
giuseppe: what do you think about just having use cases and requirements in requirements document and removing other sections?
14:07:57 [Bob]
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14:08:02 [giuseppe]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2011Aug/0085.html
14:08:28 [Zakim]
+??P39
14:08:36 [Zakim]
+JanL
14:08:56 [Clarke]
Kaz, I'm acting as scribe, but I'm not sure I'm doing it right. You may want to check that things are getting recorded.
14:09:06 [JanL]
JanL has joined #webtv
14:09:07 [rbardini]
rbardini has joined #webtv
14:09:09 [jcdufourd]
zakim, +??P39 is jcdufourd
14:09:09 [Zakim]
sorry, jcdufourd, I do not recognize a party named '+??P39'
14:09:10 [kaz]
zakim, ??P39 is Narm(?)
14:09:10 [Zakim]
+Narm(?); got it
14:09:27 [kaz]
zakim, Narm(?) is jcdufourd
14:09:27 [Zakim]
+jcdufourd; got it
14:10:06 [Zakim]
+Richard_Bardini
14:10:26 [Clarke]
giuseppe: Do people agree with the change I proposed about the header?
14:11:07 [mav]
mav has joined #webtv
14:11:27 [Clarke]
russell: I'm okay with dropping the backwards compatibility requirement
14:11:43 [davidmays]
zakim, who is noisy?
14:11:53 [Zakim]
davidmays, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Joseph_Scheuhammer (33%), MattH (19%), Giuseppe (84%)
14:12:00 [kaz]
kaz has joined #webtv
14:12:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-webtv-minutes.html kaz
14:12:33 [panze]
panze has joined #webtv
14:12:53 [Clarke]
Russell_Berkoff: we may want to continue to work on item number 1 (requirement that headers can issue commands, working information for UA, etc.)
14:13:08 [Clarke]
...requirements should explicitly cover the three cases
14:13:41 [Clarke]
Kaz, I knew I was forgetting something. Thanks
14:14:44 [kaz]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2011Aug/0116.html
14:15:30 [Clarke]
giuseppe: I'm concerned that the header issue may restrict application to a particular protocol.
14:15:38 [kaz]
i/Home_Network_TF_Requirements/topic: Requirement document review/
14:16:26 [Clarke]
Russell_Berkoff: why don't we split the difference and just identify the broad categories?
14:16:54 [mav]
I'm not able to dial in. Keeps saying the conference is full.
14:17:02 [Clarke]
giuseppe: look at the text I provided and make comments.
14:17:36 [Clarke]
Russell_Berkoff: examples may clarify what the requirements should be
14:18:08 [Clarke]
Russell_Berkoff: so you will merge and make my requirements informative?
14:18:10 [Clarke]
giuseppe: yes
14:18:43 [Clarke]
giuseppe: next, additional section about related work
14:19:14 [kaz]
kaz has joined #webtv
14:19:24 [Clarke]
giuseppe: just informative part for work members have done that helped generate use cases
14:19:41 [Clarke]
giuseppe: Do people agree with including this secion?
14:20:37 [Clarke]
giuseppe: referring to section in requirements document mentioning work from BBC, Opera, CableLabs
14:20:50 [kaz]
zakim, code?
14:20:50 [Zakim]
the conference code is 93288 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), kaz
14:20:54 [Clarke]
Russell_Berkoff: I'd like to add a submission to that section
14:21:01 [MattH]
+q
14:21:33 [Clarke]
giuseppe: You can mention material that is related to use cases (e.g. prototypes, previous work, etc.)
14:22:28 [Clarke]
MattH: I think it sounds like an excellent idea to also include a reference to CEA 2014 with an explanation about why it is useful
14:22:45 [Clarke]
...I'd also like to see some additional text about the CableLabs submission
14:23:10 [Clarke]
...it should highlight thinks people would like to know.
14:23:30 [Clarke]
Russell_Berkoff: I will include some additional text about CEA 2014
14:23:41 [giuseppe]
q?
14:23:44 [giuseppe]
ack
14:23:47 [giuseppe]
q?
14:24:03 [Clarke]
Narm: what is the reason for including this section?
14:24:32 [kaz]
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14:24:47 [Clarke]
giuseppe: It is just informative. It is good to provide the reader about related work people have been doing. It shows real prototyping work. It's just informative. No recommendation.
14:26:15 [kaz]
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14:26:18 [Clarke]
giuseppe: having links to things we have to pay for or that are proprietary is not useful, but other things can be included. We should try not to let the section get too big.
14:27:10 [Clarke]
giuseppe: I will include submissions that have already been proposed. People can start proposing other items.
14:28:07 [Clarke]
MattH: The particular work of this task force is a direct link that would enable communication on the home network. This is not a cloud-based service.
14:28:51 [Clarke]
Bob: I agree. My comment was more focussed on being more specific on application to application on accessing a home networked service. You can see my suggested text.
14:29:18 [kaz]
kaz has joined #webtv
14:29:20 [Clarke]
giuseppe: I'm concerned about the term "client." It seems too vague.
14:29:57 [Clarke]
giuseppe: Maybe we can clarify using "services" and "devices"
14:30:01 [kaz]
kaz has joined #webtv
14:30:19 [Clarke]
MattH: Maybe use "application" instead of "client"
14:30:25 [Zakim]
-Kazuyuki
14:30:42 [Clarke]
Bob: That's fine
14:30:59 [kaz]
kaz has joined #webtv
14:31:07 [Clarke]
Action: replace "client" with "application"
14:31:07 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - replace
14:31:18 [kaz]
zakim, call kazuyuki-skype
14:31:20 [Zakim]
ok, kaz; the call is being made
14:31:23 [Zakim]
+Kazuyuki
14:31:48 [Clarke]
giuseppe: next on the agenda is about priority of requirements
14:32:18 [Clarke]
giuseppe: Francois, and Matt and Bob have commented
14:32:52 [kaz]
kaz has joined #webtv
14:33:02 [Clarke]
giuseppe: Mark V. suggested rating based on the value of "enabling" use cases
14:33:27 [Clarke]
Russell_Berkoff: what are the relative advantages of this exercise?
14:33:37 [Zakim]
+Kazuyuki.a
14:33:58 [Clarke]
...maybe working groups should determine importance of requirements
14:35:16 [kaz]
zakim, drop Kazuyuki.a
14:35:16 [Zakim]
Kazuyuki.a is being disconnected
14:35:16 [kaz]
zakim, drop Kazuyuki
14:35:18 [Zakim]
Kazuyuki is being disconnected
14:35:18 [Zakim]
-Kazuyuki.a
14:35:18 [Zakim]
-Kazuyuki
14:35:18 [Clarke]
giuseppe: It is more feedback from the participants. Important requirements may help to make decisions so implementations can begin
14:36:06 [Zakim]
+Kazuyuki
14:36:08 [Clarke]
...it doesn't limit the specification, but gives some guidance for the specification
14:36:52 [Clarke]
...some use requirements enable many use cases. They may be more urgent
14:36:57 [kaz]
zakim, drop Kazuyuki
14:36:57 [Zakim]
Kazuyuki is being disconnected
14:36:58 [Zakim]
-Kazuyuki
14:37:30 [Clarke]
...it may be useful for the working committee
14:37:57 [Clarke]
giuseppe: Bob, do you want to go through your requirements?
14:38:02 [Clarke]
Bob: Yes
14:38:18 [Clarke]
...my first comment is on application trust level
14:39:31 [Clarke]
...I think this is a second level priority. We've discussed low and high-level APIs and we decided that low-level were more important. This requirement implies a certain level of API in the user agent.
14:40:04 [Clarke]
giuseppe: One option could indicate security requirements as high-priority
14:40:27 [MattH]
+q
14:40:59 [Clarke]
giuseppe: this will drive the solution. If a particular solution can't meet the requirement, then it points to a different solution.
14:41:04 [Zakim]
+ +1.215.286.aabb
14:41:33 [Clarke]
Bob: By definition it's in scope if we make it a requirement.
14:41:58 [mav]
i just joined (finally)
14:42:03 [Clarke]
giuseppe: even with a low-level API you can have the discussion
14:42:37 [Clarke]
Bob: it's not obvious to me that that is true
14:43:11 [Clarke]
...without providing some generic JavaScript level trust infrastructure
14:43:45 [kaz_]
kaz_ has joined #webtv
14:44:02 [Clarke]
giuseppe: we could remove security from a discussion of priority and just say separately that security is required.
14:44:53 [Clarke]
Bob: can we put some language in the requirment and maybe the scope of that is dependent upon the architecture
14:45:26 [MattH]
q-
14:45:38 [Clarke]
Bob: removing security from the priority discussion is fine
14:45:51 [Clarke]
giuseppe: content protection
14:46:20 [Clarke]
Bob: I don't think the API generated by this group will address that
14:46:43 [igarashi]
would u spealk loundly? Russel.
14:47:05 [kaz]
kaz has joined #webtv
14:47:13 [Clarke]
...maybe make it clear that the implementation must support DRM
14:47:50 [Clarke]
Bob: I think the requirement is out of scope.
14:48:08 [Clarke]
giuseppe: I'm fine with removing it from scope
14:48:14 [Clarke]
I think it's out of scope
14:49:10 [Clarke]
I think "compatibility" with DRM systems is okay but more specifics are out of scope
14:49:42 [Clarke]
giuseppe: take a look at the actual text and make suggestions to change or drop. I'm okay with dropping it.
14:50:00 [Clarke]
narm_gadiraju: I think we can drop it
14:50:41 [Clarke]
Russell_Berkoff: in CEA 2014 it just identifies DRM so the player can know what to do
14:50:52 [Clarke]
Bob: I can provide some suggested text
14:50:54 [narm_gadiraju]
I said we should not drop it but consider changing to include identification of DRMs
14:50:56 [kaz]
zakim, aabb is mav
14:50:56 [Zakim]
+mav; got it
14:50:56 [kaz]
zakim, call kazuyuki-617
14:50:57 [Zakim]
ok, kaz; the call is being made
14:50:57 [Zakim]
+Kazuyuki
14:51:04 [Clarke]
Russell_Berkoff: I will submit some text also
14:51:31 [Clarke]
giuseppe: we will try to propose by next week since it's supposed to be our last call
14:51:43 [Clarke]
...next is media identification
14:51:59 [giuseppe]
zakim, who is making noise?
14:52:10 [Zakim]
giuseppe, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MattH (13%), giuseppe (73%), ??P22 (18%)
14:52:21 [narm_gadiraju]
can the speaker, please speak up
14:52:54 [kaz]
zakim, who is noisy?
14:53:05 [Zakim]
kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Giuseppe (24%), giuseppe (50%), ??P22 (94%)
14:53:47 [Clarke]
zakim, mute ??P22
14:53:47 [Zakim]
??P22 should now be muted
14:54:22 [Clarke]
Bob: my comment is that the API may determine the level that content indentificatio is relevant
14:54:24 [giuseppe]
kaz, is priobably also "giuseppe" (I accidentaly attached it to me)
14:54:24 [kaz]
zakim, mute ??P22
14:54:24 [Zakim]
??P22 was already muted, kaz
14:54:24 [kaz]
zakim, unmute ??P22
14:54:25 [kaz]
zakim, mute igarashi
14:54:25 [Zakim]
??P22 should no longer be muted
14:54:25 [kaz]
zakim, unmute igarashi
14:54:26 [kaz]
zakim, who is noisy?
14:54:26 [Zakim]
sorry, kaz, I do not know which phone connection belongs to igarashi
14:54:27 [Zakim]
sorry, kaz, I do not know which phone connection belongs to igarashi
14:54:36 [Zakim]
kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: giuseppe (10%)
14:55:13 [Clarke]
MattH: Do we need to split the discussion on requirements based on low or high-level APIs?
14:55:31 [giuseppe]
zakim, mute giuseppe
14:55:31 [Zakim]
'giuseppe' is ambiguous, giuseppe
14:55:40 [Clarke]
Bob: Whether they will ultimately be covered by an implementation is dependent on the API level
14:55:58 [kaz]
zakim, giuseppe is somebody
14:55:58 [Zakim]
sorry, kaz, I do not recognize a party named 'giuseppe'
14:55:58 [kaz]
zakim, mute somebody
14:56:00 [Zakim]
sorry, kaz, I do not know which phone connection belongs to somebody
14:56:59 [Clarke]
giuseppe: This may be a more generic requirement. Maybe it should be handled outside the priority discussion.
14:57:35 [Clarke]
...maybe we consider it like security.
14:57:41 [Clarke]
MattH: that makes sense
14:58:07 [Clarke]
Russell_Berkoff: one thing not covered in requirements is any notion of home-to-home or groups of homes.
14:58:48 [Clarke]
...not commonly discussed. UPnP says something about it in RemoteAccess:2. This may become more important.
14:58:58 [Clarke]
...May want more discussion on this on reflector
14:59:27 [MattH]
q+
14:59:30 [Clarke]
giueseppe: I would rather say we have talked about it, but never really discussed it in detail. It may be a "phase 2" discussion.
14:59:45 [Clarke]
Russell_Berkoff: maybe reference to future work
15:00:28 [Clarke]
giuseppe: Just a metion would be too vague. I prefer to keep the document clear and address items the working group can work on.
15:00:45 [Clarke]
MattH: maybe make a note to the task force to take this topic up later
15:01:12 [Clarke]
Russell_Berkoff: some mention of it would be okay.
15:01:16 [kaz]
kaz has joined #webtv
15:01:37 [Clarke]
giuseppe: we can discuss it later
15:02:21 [Clarke]
Bob: maybe there are several things like this that we want to consider in the future. Maybe a section of the report to document this.
15:02:34 [Clarke]
giuseppe: that may be a good solution
15:02:47 [kaz]
Present: rbardini, JanL, jcdufourd, dcorvoysier, aizu, igarashi, davidmays, Clarke, giuseppe, MattH, Russell_Berkoff, panze, Bob, narm_gadiraju, mav, kaz
15:02:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-webtv-minutes.html kaz
15:03:17 [Clarke]
...I will update document to reflect prioritization discussion.
15:03:34 [Clarke]
...thanks
15:03:36 [Zakim]
-JanL
15:03:37 [Zakim]
-David_Corvoysier
15:03:38 [Zakim]
-MattH
15:03:40 [Zakim]
-??P22
15:03:43 [Zakim]
-davidmays
15:03:44 [Zakim]
-aizu
15:03:46 [Zakim]
-jcdufourd
15:03:48 [Zakim]
- +1.678.795.aaaa
15:03:49 [davidmays]
davidmays has left #webtv
15:03:50 [Zakim]
-Giuseppe
15:03:52 [Zakim]
-Joseph_Scheuhammer
15:03:55 [Zakim]
-mav
15:03:57 [Zakim]
-giuseppe
15:03:58 [Zakim]
-Richard_Bardini
15:04:01 [Zakim]
-Kazuyuki
15:04:03 [Zakim]
-Tatsuya_Igarashi
15:04:40 [Clarke]
Clarke has joined #webtv
15:04:53 [Clarke]
zakim, bye
15:04:53 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were davidmays, +1.678.795.aaaa, Joseph_Scheuhammer, MattH, Giuseppe, Clarke, Tatsuya_Igarashi, aizu, David_Corvoysier, Kazuyuki, JanL,
15:04:53 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #webtv
15:04:56 [Zakim]
... jcdufourd, Richard_Bardini, Kazuyuki.a, +1.215.286.aabb, mav
15:05:03 [Clarke]
RRSAgent bye
15:05:12 [Clarke]
rrsagent, bye
15:05:12 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-webtv-actions.rdf :
15:05:12 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: replace "client" with "application" [1]
15:05:12 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-webtv-irc#T14-31-07