13:37:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #eval
13:37:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-eval-irc
13:37:35 <shadi> zakim, this will be eval
13:37:35 <Zakim> ok, shadi; I see WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 23 minutes
13:48:05 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-evaltf/2011Aug/0008.html
13:48:05 <shadi> chair: Shadi
13:48:05 <shadi> regrets: Kerstin
13:48:05 <shadi> agenda+ Welcome and logistics
13:48:05 <shadi> agenda+ Recap of the proposed work
13:48:06 <shadi> agenda+ Round the table introductions
13:48:08 <shadi> agenda+ Overview on upcoming schedule
13:48:10 <shadi> agenda+ Any other business
13:48:37 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
13:49:01 <shadi> meeting: WCAG 2.0 Evaluation Methodology Task Force Teleconference Meeting
13:52:22 <LeonieWatson> LeonieWatson has joined #Eval
13:55:45 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has now started
13:55:52 <Zakim> + +1.514.312.aaaa
13:56:00 <Zakim> +Vivienne
13:57:00 <Liz> Liz has joined #eval
13:57:49 <Zakim> -Vivienne
13:57:55 <Zakim> +??P6
13:58:36 <Zakim> +??P13
13:58:44 <Zakim> + +61.8.920.6.aabb
13:58:48 <shadi> zakim, ??p13 is shadi
13:58:48 <Zakim> +shadi; got it
13:59:16 <shadi> zakim, aaaa is Samuel
13:59:16 <Zakim> +Samuel; got it
13:59:46 <Zakim> + +1.301.975.aacc
13:59:49 <Zakim> + +1.858.074.aadd
13:59:52 <Zakim> + +49.404.318.aaee
13:59:55 <dboudreau> dboudreau has joined #eval
14:00:23 <shadi> zakim, aabb is Vivienne
14:00:23 <Zakim> +Vivienne; got it
14:00:24 <dboudreau> good morning everyone
14:00:33 <shadi> zakim, aaee is Detlev
14:00:33 <Zakim> +Detlev; got it
14:00:53 <Zakim> +??P26
14:00:56 <shadi> zakim, ??p6 is Richard
14:00:56 <Zakim> +Richard; got it
14:01:06 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:01:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Samuel, Richard, shadi, Vivienne, +1.301.975.aacc, +1.858.074.aadd (muted), Detlev, ??P26
14:01:14 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
14:01:41 <shadi> zakim, ??p26 Alistair
14:01:41 <Zakim> I don't understand '??p26 Alistair', shadi
14:01:53 <sds> shadi: (this is Samuel), there will be dboudreau on the same phone line as mine.
14:01:54 <shadi> zakim, aacc is Liz
14:01:54 <Zakim> +Liz; got it
14:02:02 <dboudreau> shadi, 1.312 is samuel sirois and me
14:02:21 <Zakim> + +1.978.443.aaff
14:02:25 <Zakim> + +1.514.448.aagg
14:02:26 <shadi> zakim, aadd is Emmanuel
14:02:33 <Zakim> +Emmanuel; got it
14:02:40 <sds> Zakim, mute me
14:02:40 <shadi> zakim, aaff is Kathy
14:02:46 <Zakim> sorry, sds, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:02:48 <Zakim> +Kathy; got it
14:03:01 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:03:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see Samuel, Richard, shadi, Vivienne, Liz, Emmanuel (muted), Detlev, ??P26, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kathy, +1.514.448.aagg
14:03:16 <shadi> zakim, ??p26 is Alistair
14:03:16 <Zakim> +Alistair; got it
14:03:49 <shadi> zakim, ??aagg is Denis
14:03:50 <Zakim> sorry, shadi, I do not recognize a party named '??aagg'
14:03:56 <shadi> zakim, aagg is Denis
14:03:56 <Zakim> +Denis; got it
14:04:00 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:04:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see Samuel, Richard, shadi, Vivienne, Liz, Emmanuel (muted), Detlev, Alistair, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kathy, Denis
14:04:09 <dboudreau> zakim, mute me
14:04:11 <Zakim> + +31.65.127.aahh
14:04:13 <Zakim> sorry, dboudreau, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:04:15 <Zakim> +??P45
14:04:26 <shadi> zakim, aahh is Eric
14:04:26 <Zakim> +Eric; got it
14:04:46 <shadi> zakim, ??p45 is Leonie
14:04:46 <Zakim> +Leonie; got it
14:05:11 <Tim> Tim has joined #eval
14:05:11 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:05:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see Samuel, Richard, shadi, Vivienne, Liz, Emmanuel (muted), Detlev, Alistair, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kathy, Denis, Eric, Leonie
14:05:16 <Detlev_Fischer> Detlev_Fischer has joined #eval
14:05:58 <richard> richard has joined #eval
14:06:09 <shadi> zakim, who is on the call?
14:06:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see Samuel, Richard, shadi, Vivienne, Liz, Emmanuel (muted), Detlev, Alistair, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kathy, Denis, Eric, Leonie
14:06:13 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
14:06:42 <shadi> zakim, mute tim
14:06:42 <Zakim> Tim_Boland should now be muted
14:07:01 <dboudreau> zakim, mute me
14:07:01 <Zakim> sorry, dboudreau, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:07:09 <LeonieWatson> zakim, mute me
14:07:09 <Zakim> sorry, LeonieWatson, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:07:29 <shadi> zakim, denis dboudreau 
14:07:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'denis dboudreau', shadi
14:07:38 <shadi> zakim, leonie is LeonieWatson 
14:07:38 <Zakim> +LeonieWatson; got it
14:07:48 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
14:07:50 <LeonieWatson> zakim, mute me
14:07:50 <Zakim> LeonieWatson should now be muted
14:07:58 <dboudreau> samuel and i should be with 514.312
14:08:04 <dboudreau> zakim, mute me
14:08:04 <Zakim> sorry, dboudreau, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:08:18 <sds> zakim, mute me
14:08:18 <Zakim> sorry, sds, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:08:26 <shadi> agenda?
14:08:34 <agarrison> agarrison has joined #eval
14:08:59 <sds> zakim, sds is Samuel
14:08:59 <Zakim> sorry, sds, I do not recognize a party named 'sds'
14:09:11 <dboudreau> zakim, denis is dboudreau
14:09:11 <Zakim> +dboudreau; got it
14:09:18 <sds> sakim Samuel is sds
14:09:18 <dboudreau> zakim, mute me
14:09:18 <Zakim> dboudreau should now be muted
14:09:25 <sds> Zakim, Samuel is sds
14:09:25 <Zakim> +sds; got it
14:09:47 <sds> Zakim, mute me
14:09:49 <Zakim> sds should now be muted
14:09:59 <dboudreau> zakim, unmute me
14:09:59 <Zakim> dboudreau should no longer be muted
14:10:05 <LeonieWatson> scribe: LeonieWatson
14:10:05 <shadi> scribe: Leonie
14:10:11 <Tim> got disconnected - will try to call back in  
14:10:14 <shadi> scribenick: LeonieWatson 
14:10:14 <sds> zakim, unmute me
14:10:14 <Zakim> sds should no longer be muted
14:10:17 <Ryladog_> Ryladog_ has joined #eval
14:10:36 <LeonieWatson> zakim, unmute me
14:10:36 <Zakim> LeonieWatson should no longer be muted
14:11:51 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
14:11:52 <dboudreau> zakim, mute me
14:11:52 <Zakim> dboudreau should now be muted
14:12:00 <LeonieWatson> zakim, mute me
14:12:00 <Zakim> LeonieWatson should now be muted
14:12:41 <shadi> zakim, take up first
14:12:41 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up first', shadi
14:12:49 <shadi> zakim, take up first agendum 1
14:12:49 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up first agendum 1', shadi
14:12:53 <shadi> zakim, take up first agendum
14:12:53 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up first agendum', shadi
14:13:01 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:13:02 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome and logistics" taken up [from shadi]
14:13:26 <LeonieWatson> SA: Orienting everyone to W3C meetings and processes.
14:13:34 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/2002/01/UsingZakim
14:13:50 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot
14:14:00 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/2002/03/RRSAgent
14:14:54 <vincent> vincent has joined #eval
14:15:02 <LeonieWatson> SA: Zakim is the conference bridge we use. You can give commands for muting/unmuting, adding/removing yourself to/from a queue to speak.
14:15:07 <shadi> q+
14:15:16 <shadi> q?
14:15:18 <Ryladog_> Q+
14:15:27 <shadi> ack s
14:15:35 <shadi> ack Ryladog_ 
14:16:29 <LeonieWatson> SA: We use IRC bots (automated programmes that help run meetings). RRSAgent helps with recording the minutes for example.
14:16:41 <LeonieWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
14:16:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-eval-minutes.html LeonieWatson
14:16:53 <Ryladog_> q+
14:16:56 <vivienne> q+
14:17:03 <shadi> ack Ryladog_ 
14:17:25 <LeonieWatson> KS: Are those minutes already available?
14:18:03 <shadi> ack vivienne 
14:18:04 <LeonieWatson> SA: The minutes should be available from the link just displayed by RRSagent (see above)
14:18:22 <LeonieWatson> zakim, unmute me
14:18:22 <Zakim> LeonieWatson should no longer be muted
14:18:40 <sds> no
14:19:00 <Eric> Eric has joined #eval
14:19:10 <LeonieWatson> VC: Had trouble connecting through xLight SIP client.
14:20:46 <vincent> Kakim, mute me
14:20:54 <LeonieWatson> zakim, mute me
14:20:54 <Zakim> LeonieWatson should now be muted
14:21:00 <vincent> Zakim, mute me
14:21:00 <Zakim> sorry, vincent, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:21:18 <shadi> zakim, who is on the call?
14:21:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see sds, Richard, shadi, Vivienne, Liz, Emmanuel (muted), Detlev, Alistair, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kathy, dboudreau, Eric, LeonieWatson (muted), Tim_Boland (muted)
14:21:21 <vivienne> zakim, mute me
14:21:21 <Zakim> Vivienne should now be muted
14:21:25 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
14:22:01 <dboudreau> zakim, unmute me
14:22:01 <Zakim> dboudreau was not muted, dboudreau
14:22:02 <Detlev_Fischer> Zakim, mute me
14:22:02 <Zakim> sorry, Detlev_Fischer, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:22:19 <LeonieWatson> SA: Responding to general IRC/Zakim questions.
14:22:56 <sinarmaya> Zakim, Emmanuel is Emmanuelle
14:22:56 <Zakim> +Emmanuelle; got it
14:22:57 <LeonieWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
14:22:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-eval-minutes.html LeonieWatson
14:23:05 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #eval
14:23:34 <shadi> zakim, detlev is Detlev_Fischer 
14:23:34 <Zakim> +Detlev_Fischer; got it
14:23:39 <Detlev_Fischer> Zakim, Detlev is Detlev_Fischer
14:23:39 <Zakim> +Detlev_Fischer; got it
14:23:50 <Detlev_Fischer> Zakim, mute me
14:23:50 <Zakim> Detlev_Fischer.a should now be muted
14:24:00 <sds> Zakim, mute me
14:24:00 <Zakim> sds should now be muted
14:24:15 <LeonieWatson> zakim, next item
14:24:15 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Recap of the proposed work" taken up [from shadi]
14:24:24 <shadi> zakim, take up next
14:24:24 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, shadi
14:24:58 <LeonieWatson> SA: Hopefully everyone is up to date with the TF work statement.
14:25:00 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2011/eval/eval-tf
14:25:50 <LeonieWatson> SA: Any questions or comments about the work proposed for teh TF?
14:25:54 <vivienne> it looks great to me
14:25:59 <Detlev_Fischer> Q+
14:26:01 <sds> no, seems good for me
14:26:05 <LeonieWatson> s/teh//the/
14:26:06 <Tim> Are we going to use any of the old TSDTF work in our new committee?
14:26:06 <shadi> ack Detlev_Fischer 
14:26:17 <shadi> ack Detlev_Fischer.a 
14:26:25 <Detlev_Fischer> Zakim, unmute me
14:26:25 <Zakim> Detlev_Fischer.a was not muted, Detlev_Fischer
14:26:37 <shadi> zakim, who is on the call?
14:26:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see sds (muted), Richard, shadi, Vivienne (muted), Liz, Emmanuelle (muted), Detlev_Fischer.a, Alistair, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kathy, dboudreau, Eric, LeonieWatson
14:26:40 <Zakim> ... (muted)
14:26:52 <shadi> zakim, Detlev_Fischer.a is Detlev_Fischer 
14:26:52 <Zakim> +Detlev_Fischer; got it
14:27:35 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
14:28:09 <Detlev_Fischer> Zakim, mute me
14:28:09 <Zakim> Detlev_Fischer should now be muted
14:28:22 <vivienne> do you want me to scribe till Leonie gets back on irc?
14:28:40 <shadi> scribe: vivienne
14:29:01 <Detlev_Fischer> Zakim, unmute me
14:29:01 <Zakim> Detlev_Fischer should no longer be muted
14:29:03 <vivienne> Detlev: asked about multitude of types of evaluation and should this all be incorporated in one statement?
14:29:11 <LeonieWatson> LeonieWatson has joined #Eval
14:29:16 <Detlev_Fischer> q+
14:29:30 <vivienne> Shadi: stated that this is something we'll be looking it
14:29:33 <shadi> ack Detlev_Fischer 
14:30:24 <LeonieWatson> DF: Will we be looking at policy and training?
14:30:40 <vivienne> Detlev: asked about methodology, scope, whether it's a one-time assessment, selecting pages etc
14:30:51 <LeonieWatson> DF: There is often more to a methodology.
14:30:53 <vivienne> Shadi: that is beyond the scope for this project
14:31:13 <shadi> ack Tim 
14:31:17 <LeonieWatson> SA: My feeling is that this could be beyond the scope of what we're doing.
14:31:29 <Detlev_Fischer> Zakim, mute me
14:31:29 <Zakim> Detlev_Fischer should now be muted
14:31:32 <vivienne> Tim: is any other work available that we can use?
14:31:44 <LeonieWatson> TB: Is any of the previous work that's been done useful to the TF's activity?
14:31:59 <shadi> scribe: LeonieWatson 
14:32:02 <Ryladog_> q+
14:32:05 <vivienne> Leonie, now you're back I'll hand scribing back to yy
14:32:54 <LeonieWatson> SA: We'll be focusing on the overall approach for evaluating a website.
14:33:08 <LeonieWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
14:33:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-eval-minutes.html LeonieWatson
14:34:03 <LeonieWatson> SA: Right now the idea is to develop an overall proceedure, how do I select pages/representative pages, advice on testing, and how do I aggregate those results.
14:35:11 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
14:35:53 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2011/eval/
14:36:12 <LeonieWatson> SA: There are links to related WAI activities on the TF homepage.
14:36:28 <shadi> ack Ryladog_ 
14:36:59 <LeonieWatson> KHS: So we're preparing for another group to create test suites for evaluation tools?
14:37:13 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
14:37:15 <LeonieWatson> SA: Yes.
14:37:24 <Detlev_Fischer> Zakim, unmute me
14:37:24 <Zakim> Detlev_Fischer should no longer be muted
14:38:50 <LeonieWatson> SA: Another piece of W3C formality - We're a task force, under the umbrella of two working groups. Traditionally TFs are not decision making bodies, so our work will be signed off by our parent working groups.
14:39:17 <LeonieWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
14:39:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-eval-minutes.html LeonieWatson
14:40:10 <shadi> Eric Velleman
14:40:18 <dboudreau> So, the work of this tf is mainly to work on procedures and methodology, while test suites are to be developed in the wg themselves, is that correct?
14:41:08 <LeonieWatson> EV: I've been at the Accessibility Foundation in the Netherlands, and worked on the UN accessibility methodology a couple of years back.
14:41:55 <LeonieWatson> EV: Idea is to come up with a unified web evaluation methodology.
14:41:59 <shadi> to denis: yes -- but we may identify that there is a need for additional guidance on testing in the context of conformance evaluation
14:42:10 <Detlev_Fischer> should be UWEM methodology, not UN methodology
14:42:21 <dboudreau> @shadi » great, thx
14:42:22 <shadi> s/UN/UWEM
14:42:35 <LeonieWatson> s/UN/UWEM/
14:42:42 <shadi> s/UN accessibility/UWEM accessibility methodology
14:43:14 <LeonieWatson> zakim, next item
14:43:14 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Round the table introductions" taken up [from shadi]
14:43:27 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=48225&public=1
14:44:00 <LeonieWatson> SA: Quick 30 second introductions from everyone.
14:44:04 <sds> Zakim, unmute me
14:44:04 <Zakim> sds should no longer be muted
14:44:12 <dboudreau> zakim, unmute me
14:44:12 <Zakim> dboudreau was not muted, dboudreau
14:44:51 <vivienne> zakim, unmute me
14:44:51 <Zakim> Vivienne should no longer be muted
14:45:50 <shadi> Tim Boland
14:45:55 <shadi> Denis Boudreau
14:46:00 <shadi> Vivienne Conway
14:46:15 <shadi> Michael Cooper
14:46:43 <vivienne> zakim, mute me
14:46:43 <Zakim> Vivienne should now be muted
14:46:47 <shadi> Detlev Fischer
14:48:00 <shadi> Elizabeth Fong
14:48:32 <Detlev_Fischer> Zakim, mute me
14:48:32 <Zakim> Detlev_Fischer should now be muted
14:48:54 <shadi> Vincent Francois
14:49:13 <sds> Zakim, mute me
14:49:13 <Zakim> sds should now be muted
14:49:55 <shadi> Alistair Garrison
14:50:58 <shadi> Emmanuelle Gutierrez y Restrepo
14:51:35 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
14:51:44 <shadi> Katie Haritos-Shea
14:52:19 <shadi> [Kerstin Probiesch]
14:52:26 <shadi> [Roberto Scano]
14:53:24 <shadi> Samuel Sirois
14:53:28 <sds> zakim, unmute me
14:53:28 <Zakim> sds should no longer be muted
14:53:46 <shadi> Eric Velleman
14:53:57 <shadi> [Votis Konstantinos]
14:54:27 <sds> zakim, mute me
14:54:36 <Zakim> sds should now be muted
14:54:38 <shadi> Kathleen Wahlbin
14:55:30 <shadi> Richard Warren
14:56:20 <shadi> Leonie Watson
14:56:22 <LeonieWatson> zakim, unmute me
14:56:24 <Zakim> LeonieWatson should no longer be muted
14:57:18 <LeonieWatson> zakim, mute me
14:57:18 <Zakim> LeonieWatson should now be muted
14:57:26 <vincent>  To illustrate our voice exchanges : http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=48225&public=1&order=standing
14:57:26 <LeonieWatson> zakim, next item
14:57:29 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Overview on upcoming schedule" taken up [from shadi]
14:57:32 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2011/eval/eval-tf#timeline
14:58:02 <LeonieWatson> SA: We need to start looking at requirements. 
14:58:30 <LeonieWatson> SA: We're all agreed that a common methodology is needed, but there are lots of open questions.
14:58:44 <Tim> can't get back in - says passcode not valid - will use irc 
14:58:44 <Detlev_Fischer> Zakim, unmute me
14:58:44 <Zakim> Detlev_Fischer should no longer be muted
14:58:49 <LeonieWatson> SA: Over the next four weeks we'll put together a clear set of requirements.
14:59:14 <Detlev_Fischer> q+
14:59:15 <LeonieWatson> SA: Weekly telecon will be at the same time each week, and will use the same pass code/IRC channel.
14:59:24 <LeonieWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
14:59:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-eval-minutes.html LeonieWatson
14:59:54 <shadi> ack Detlev_Fischer 
15:00:08 <Detlev_Fischer> http://www.bitvtest.eu/eval-tf-problems
15:00:48 <Detlev_Fischer> Zakim, mute me
15:00:51 <Zakim> -LeonieWatson
15:00:54 <LeonieWatson> LeonieWatson has left #Eval
15:01:06 <Zakim> Detlev_Fischer should now be muted
15:01:17 <vivienne> what is the proper procedure to exit the irc
15:02:28 <dboudreau> thanks everyone, have a great day
15:02:29 <vivienne> thanks shadi
15:02:31 <sds> thank you all
15:02:46 <vivienne> vivienne has left #eval
15:02:55 <sinarmaya> sinarmaya has left #eval
15:02:56 <Kathy> Thanks everyone
15:02:57 <agarrison> agarrison has left #eval
15:03:07 <Zakim> -Detlev_Fischer
15:03:09 <Zakim> -Alistair
15:03:13 <Zakim> -shadi
15:03:15 <Zakim> -Richard
15:03:19 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
15:03:19 <shadi> rssagent, make logs world
15:03:21 <Zakim> -Eric
15:03:24 <shadi> rssagent, make minutes
15:03:25 <Zakim> -Emmanuelle
15:03:27 <Zakim> -dboudreau
15:03:31 <Zakim> -sds
15:03:39 <Zakim> -Liz
15:03:49 <Zakim> -Kathy
15:04:15 <Zakim> -Vivienne
15:04:17 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has ended
15:04:19 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.514.312.aaaa, Vivienne, +61.8.920.6.aabb, shadi, +1.301.975.aacc, +1.858.074.aadd, +49.404.318.aaee, Richard, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Liz, +1.978.443.aaff,
15:04:24 <Zakim> ... +1.514.448.aagg, Kathy, Alistair, +31.65.127.aahh, Eric, Tim_Boland, LeonieWatson, dboudreau, sds, Emmanuelle, Detlev_Fischer
15:04:24 <Eric> Eric has left #eval
15:04:31 <shadi> zakim, bye
15:05:00 <shadi> rssagent, make minutes
15:05:02 <shadi> rssagent, make logs world
15:05:56 <Zakim> Zakim has left #eval
15:07:30 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
15:07:36 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
15:07:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-eval-minutes.html shadi
15:07:40 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
15:07:40 <RRSAgent> I see no action items