19:02:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webapps
19:02:31 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/17-webapps-irc
19:02:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:02:33 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #webapps
19:02:35 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DOM3
19:02:35 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see IA_WebApps(DOM3)2:00PM already started
19:02:36 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
19:02:36 <trackbot> Date: 17 August 2011
19:03:01 <shepazu> zakim, code?
19:03:01 <Zakim> the conference code is 3663 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shepazu
19:03:11 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
19:04:34 <Zakim> +??P3
19:04:46 <krisk> krisk has joined #webapps
19:05:23 <jrossi_> jrossi_ has joined #webapps
19:05:31 <jrossi_> Hey shepazu
19:05:35 <smaug> jrossi_: did you just join the call?
19:05:39 <smaug> we can't here you
19:05:41 <smaug> hear
19:05:46 <jrossi_> not yet, is code DOM3?
19:05:59 <shepazu> zakim, code?
19:05:59 <Zakim> the conference code is 3663 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shepazu
19:06:02 <smaug> hmm, ??P3 is someone else then
19:06:41 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:07:18 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
19:08:11 <smaug> Zakim, who is on the call?
19:08:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, Doug_Schepers, ??P3
19:08:23 <smaug> Zakim, ??P0 is Olli_Pettay
19:08:23 <Zakim> +Olli_Pettay; got it
19:08:25 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:08:41 <smaug> jrossi_: terrible noise 
19:08:43 <smaug> argghh
19:08:46 <krisk> Zakim, Microsoft is krisk jrossi akuang
19:08:46 <Zakim> I don't understand 'Microsoft is krisk jrossi akuang', krisk
19:08:55 <jrossi_> from our end?
19:09:02 <smaug> immediately when you joined
19:09:04 <shepazu> zakim, drop ??P3
19:09:04 <Zakim> ??P3 is being disconnected
19:09:05 <Zakim> -??P3
19:09:07 <krisk> Zakim, Microsoft is krisk,jrossi,akuang
19:09:07 <Zakim> +krisk,jrossi,akuang; got it
19:09:29 <jrossi_> smaug:can't hear you guys at all
19:09:31 <shepazu> zaki, mute Microsoft
19:09:35 <smaug> Zakim, mute [Microsoft]
19:09:35 <Zakim> sorry, smaug, I do not know which phone connection belongs to [Microsoft]
19:09:42 <shepazu> zakim, mute Microsoft
19:09:42 <Zakim> sorry, shepazu, I do not know which phone connection belongs to Microsoft
19:09:43 <jrossi_> i muted our phone
19:09:54 <shepazu> jrossi_: please call back in
19:09:56 <Zakim> +??P3
19:10:02 <Zakim> -krisk,jrossi,akuang
19:10:22 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:10:29 <krisk> Zakim, Microsoft is krisk,jrossi,akuang
19:10:29 <Zakim> +krisk,jrossi,akuang; got it
19:11:23 <smaug> Zakim, nick smaug is Olli_Pettay
19:11:23 <Zakim> ok, smaug, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay
19:11:29 <shepazu> zakim, drop ??P3
19:11:29 <Zakim> ??P3 is being disconnected
19:11:30 <Zakim> -??P3
19:12:14 <jrossi_> ScribeNick: jrossi
19:12:34 <jrossi_> smaug: there's keyboard noise, is that you?
19:12:39 <smaug> sorry
19:14:12 <jrossi_> jrossi: Doug, have you updated ISSUE 110 & 121?
19:14:28 <jrossi_> shepazu:  Yes, but haven't been able to check in.
19:14:39 <jrossi_> jrossi: if you can submit the changes to me, I can check them in
19:14:42 <jrossi_> shepazu: OK.
19:14:49 <Zakim> -krisk,jrossi,akuang
19:15:22 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:15:32 <krisk> Zakim, Microsoft is krisk,jrossi,akuang
19:15:32 <Zakim> +krisk,jrossi,akuang; got it
19:16:14 <jrossi_> jrossi: just got the change from shepazu, I'll check it in today
19:16:55 <shepazu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2011JulSep/0115.html
19:17:44 <jrossi_> Topic: Spec changes during LC
19:17:53 <jrossi_> ISSUE-185?
19:17:53 <trackbot> ISSUE-185 -- Functions that Implement the EventListener Interface -- pending review
19:17:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/185
19:20:36 <jrossi_> jrossi: Rob Bracket raised this issue. Mostly grammatical/clarity. Primary question is:  if EventListener is a  Function object with a property handleEvent property, should the UA invoke the function object or the handleEvent property?
19:20:47 <jrossi_> jrossi: all implementations agree that you invoke the Function object
19:21:03 <jrossi_> jrossi: Rob Brackett presented functional argument for why you want alternative.
19:21:21 <jrossi_> jrossi: This was countered with an argument from implementers that this is not implementable in a performant manner. 
19:21:46 <jrossi_> jrossi: Rob Brackett agreed the performance outweighs the utility of his presented functional argument.
19:22:44 <jrossi_> shepazu: agrees with the change
19:23:03 <jrossi_> smaug: and also WebIDL describes this behavior and is in agreement with the spec change
19:23:23 <akuang> akuang has joined #webapps
19:23:27 <jrossi_> Resolution: spec change is appropriate and commenter agreed.
19:23:44 <jrossi_> ISSUE-137?
19:23:44 <trackbot> ISSUE-137 -- Should keypress events fire when using an IME? -- pending review
19:23:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/137
19:26:35 <jrossi_> shepazu: This change did make a change to the normative statements of keypress. We may be asked to go back to LC because of this.
19:27:38 <jrossi_> jrossi: There's good evidence that we should be able to proceed with this change and not go back to Last Call as no counter arguments were presented and also all major browsers are compliant with the new spec text.
19:28:30 <jrossi_> ISSUE-131?
19:28:30 <trackbot> ISSUE-131 -- Define load event to fire on defaultView -- pending review
19:28:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/131
19:30:40 <jrossi_> jrossi: no normative change, just reinstated the note about load not firing on defaultView in some cases and pointed to HTML5
19:32:06 <jrossi_> jrossi:  Do we have enough info to discuss ISSUE-183 and ISSUE-184?
19:32:13 <jrossi_> shepazu: no, I'd like to follow up on mail
19:32:21 <jrossi_> smaug: yes, I need to better understand Daniel's followup
19:32:29 <jrossi_> jrossi: OK, we'll postpone that discussion
19:32:56 <krisk> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps-testsuite/2011Apr/0001.html
19:32:57 <jrossi_> Topic: Test Suite
19:33:21 <jrossi_> krisk: Art set up a process and had consensus on how tests should work.
19:33:49 <jrossi_> krisk: (link above to Web Apps testing should work)
19:34:18 <jrossi_> krisk: part of that is creating tests using the format specified on the wiki
19:34:20 <krisk> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Submission
19:34:37 <jrossi_> krisk: Microsoft is going to convert some our tests into that format.
19:34:41 <krisk> For exmaple http://w3c-test.org/webapps/DOMEvents/tests/submissions/Microsoft/converted/domnodeinserted.html
19:35:18 <jrossi_> krisk: Alex Kuang and I will send out notifications to the list and ask for a FR (request to review)
19:35:33 <jrossi_> krisk: then we'll ask to get tests approved
19:35:51 <krisk> Following the http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Approval process
19:36:00 <jrossi_> shepazu: does this match what's going on in the HTML testing group?
19:36:13 <jrossi_> krisk: yes, the wiki talks about the harness to use. 
19:36:40 <jrossi_> krisk: which is the same harness they're using
19:36:47 <krisk> A sample exists at http://w3c-test.org/resources/apisample.htm
19:37:13 <jrossi_> shepazu: do you mind if I ask what sort of coverage you expect to have on the spec as it stands?
19:37:33 <jrossi_> krisk: initially we're going to just propose our set of tests
19:37:43 <jrossi_> shepazu: do you think you have enough coverage?
19:38:15 <jrossi_> krisk:  we have lots of good tests :-)
19:38:41 <jrossi_> krisk: we should definitely think about what the test complete timeline looks like
19:41:53 <jrossi_> smaug: how do tests work for things like IME?
19:41:55 <jrossi_> krisk: I believe the spirit is that we want to use the JS harness first. But if there's situations where you can't actually test what the specification says via JS (ex. requiring an IME) then you'll have to go and follow instructions to complete the test ("self-describing tests").
19:49:16 <jrossi_> Topic: Items blocking existing implementations from conformance
19:49:42 <jrossi_> smaug:  Several events that were changed to UIEvent that most implementations use Event (from DOM0)
19:50:00 <jrossi_> ISSUE-120?
19:50:00 <trackbot> ISSUE-120 -- Consider returning 'scroll' from UIEvent to Event interface -- pending review
19:50:00 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/120
19:50:17 <jrossi_> smuag: there are others besides scroll:  load,unload, etc.
19:50:46 <smaug> s/smuag/smaug/
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19:51:33 <jrossi_> shepazu: if implementations agree that they do not want to make this change, then I'm fine with moving these back to Event
19:51:40 <jrossi_> jrossi: Microsoft is OK with this.
19:51:58 <jrossi_> smaug: I'm also fine with moving it back
19:52:07 <jrossi_> smaug: Annevk also was in favor of this
19:53:23 <akuang> load, unload, error are Event in IE9
19:54:27 <akuang> scroll, resize, select are UIEvent in IE9
19:55:10 <jrossi_> smaug: load, unload, error are also Event in Firefox (also, abort, error, select, resize, scroll)
19:55:25 <jrossi_> smaug: wonder why only load/unload/error only are Event in IE
19:55:33 <jrossi_> jrossi: we can check into that and get back to you
19:56:15 <jrossi_> jrossi: I can start a thread on this
19:57:06 <jrossi_> shepazu: another thing not necessarily implemented is textinput and the key property of keyboard events
20:00:44 <jrossi_> jrossi:  IE9 implemented this. We found our experience in implementing straightforward and have gotten feedback from end developers that it's a good model.
20:02:29 <jrossi_> shepazu: I'll see what I can do to help influence getting this in Mozilla
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20:07:00 <Zakim> -Olli_Pettay
20:07:03 <Zakim> -krisk,jrossi,akuang
20:07:04 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
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