15:03:56 RRSAgent has joined #forms 15:03:56 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/17-forms-irc 15:03:57 RRSAgent, make logs public 15:04:00 Zakim, this will be IA_XForms 15:04:01 Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference 15:04:01 Date: 17 August 2011 15:04:10 zakim, code? 15:04:11 Zakim has joined #forms 15:04:17 zakim, code? 15:04:35 sorry, nick, I don't know what conference this is 15:04:49 trackbot, start meeting 15:04:52 RRSAgent, make logs public 15:04:54 Zakim, this will be IA_XForms 15:04:55 Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference 15:04:55 Date: 17 August 2011 15:05:04 zakim, code? 15:05:13 ok, trackbot, I see IA_XForms()11:00AM already started 15:05:23 the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nick 15:05:34 zakim, who is here? 15:05:37 On the phone I see +44.782.483.aaaa, Leigh_Klotz, John_Boyer 15:05:52 On IRC I see RRSAgent, John_Boyer, nick, pfennell, klotz, alain, trackbot 15:06:09 +Nick_van_den_Bleeken 15:06:52 zakim, +44 is pfennell 15:06:52 +pfennell; got it 15:08:17 zakim, who is noisy? 15:08:27 klotz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Leigh_Klotz (64%), John_Boyer (29%) 15:08:42 -John_Boyer 15:09:53 +John_Boyer 15:12:07 scribe: klotz 15:12:14 Topic: Editorial Meeting 15:12:26 klotz: Let's pick topics to turn into spec language. 15:12:29 John: And review. 15:12:37 Nick: XPath 2 is ready for review. 15:12:46 John: We need to know how to turn it into spec-ready content too. 15:13:05 Leigh: Nick and Steven have done it. 15:13:13 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0 15:13:36 Nick: The XForms 2.0 spec in wiki markup. I have a tool to convert that to HTML to publish in TR space. 15:13:53 Nick: The wiki already looks like a spec. 15:14:00 John: So log in to this page and add content? 15:14:07 Nick: Or create a new page and add content. 15:14:20 Leigh: Is it a series of includes of modules? 15:14:38 +??P31 15:14:50 Nick: It's one wiki page. It's not split. If you edit you can do a global edit. Multiple edits is OK if you edit sections. 15:15:06 John: We use the HTML markup that's there? 15:15:25 Nick: It's a python script. 15:15:40 zakim, +??P31 is alain 15:15:40 sorry, alain, I do not recognize a party named '+??P31' 15:15:41 John: To edit this page we just follow the example? Any conventions? 15:15:59 zakim, + is alain 15:15:59 sorry, klotz, I do not recognize a party named '+' 15:16:07 zakim, who is here? 15:16:07 On the phone I see pfennell, Leigh_Klotz, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, John_Boyer, ??P31 15:16:09 On IRC I see RRSAgent, John_Boyer, nick, pfennell, klotz, alain, trackbot 15:16:10 zakim, ??P31 is alain 15:16:10 +alain; got it 15:16:26 John: How do you do a reference? 15:16:30 In the XForms approach, forms are comprised of a section that describes what the form does, called the [[#def-xforms-model|XForms Model]], and another section that describes how the form is to be presented. 15:16:32 Nick: IDs are prefixed with refs. 15:16:46 John: Is there a recommended browser? 15:17:17 John: There are funny characters in Firefox 3.6. Is that a browser issue? 15:17:31 Nick: Which section? 15:17:44 John: In intro reading, "reading the specification" 15:18:32 mind—in 15:18:50 Leigh: I see, not nbsp but an m-dash or something. 15:19:02 John: OK, it is an import issue. 15:19:36 Nick: When editing the complete spec check the browser. 15:19:43 John: It worked ok in Firefox. 15:19:55 John: It is that simple. 15:20:01 Nick: For diffs we use htmldiff from w3c. 15:20:15 John: If we edit this page, is this the authoritative source? 15:20:23 Nick: There is a log. 15:20:31 Nick: There is a base copy from the import as well, for diff. 15:20:51 Nick: We can edit the base version to suppress space issues, etc. 15:21:20 nick1 has joined #forms 15:21:59 http://www.w3.org/2007/10/htmldiff?doc1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FMarkUp%2FForms%2Fwiki%2FXForms_2.0_base&doc2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FMarkUp%2FForms%2Fwiki%2FXForms_2.0 15:22:18 XForms_2.0_base 15:22:43 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0_base 15:22:45 Leigh: That looks pretty good. 15:27:29 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Category:XForms12 15:28:18 Leigh: Are there things not on this list? 15:28:25 John: There are things I'd like to work on. 15:28:58 John: We got a patent issued for a switch UI control with an attribute-like syntax. IBM has that patent on August 9. As soon as we can get it into the spec we'll have the RF patent protection. 15:30:20 Leigh: So you're talking about http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Model-based_switching_with_switch 15:30:26 Leigh: Would you be doing that? 15:30:29 John: Yes. 15:30:40 Leigh: OK SO we add http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Model-based_switching_with_switch to the agenda for the editorial meeting. 15:31:10 Leigh: How about Model-based repeat index? 15:31:38 John: Nested repeat is the same as nested switch, or switch inside repeat. It's not hard. 15:32:06 Leigh: Do you think you could stub is out as it's close to switch? 15:33:25 John: I don't think it's quite the same. I want an attribute on the switch itself, but the group wanted a child element. That doesn't work for repeat. It's got some significant differences such as where you put the element. We almost need a container element for repeat to have other stuff. I know Steven has been on for quite a while about higher-order markup that encapsulates the "stuff" we tend to do (patterns) and this might fit into that bucket. 15:34:39 Leigh: OK, what else? 15:34:58 John: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Regex_pattern_and_replace_functions backported from XPath 2.0 to XPath 1.0. 15:35:06 John: I added them as extension functions. 15:35:33 Leigh: Why do we need to move them from XPath 2.0 to XPath 1.0 then? 15:35:58 John: It's not a long description. You have to make mention of it for those not doing an XPath 2.0 version. 15:36:16 Nick: I'd suggest a spec module; it's for a small number and easily done in a separate module. 15:36:35 John: Where the rest of the XForms extension functions go for XPath 1.0. 15:36:39 Nick: Backport? 15:37:03 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/specs/XForms1.2/modules/xpath20/index-all.html 15:37:06 John: I wouldn't backport them all. XForms 2.0 has to come out before we impleemnt ti. 15:37:11 s/impleemnt/implement/ 15:37:49 John: We already have other functions like that. 15:38:23 Nick: We changed XForms so it doesn't refer to XPath directly, just as expression language. The XPath moduel adds XPath 2.0. 15:38:27 John: Are there two versions? 15:38:55 Nick: I can't recall. We decided to recommend XPath 2.0 but say 1.0 is available. There are model attributes to request an engine. 15:39:01 John: Where's the wiki page for that? 15:39:23 Nick: It's not in the wikispec. It's in XML still. Steven did the import and we did one but haven't converted this one. 15:39:31 John: Can you convert it? 15:39:38 Nick: I'm not sure. It's in specxml. 15:39:52 John: If I wanted to do the work on match/replace where do I do it? 15:39:59 Nick: For now it is specxml in our CVS repo. 15:40:06 John: Is there a link? 15:40:10 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/specs/XForms1.2/modules/xpath20/index-all.html 15:40:17 Nick: Yes. 15:40:57 Nick: There is an ant task to generate the spec. It generates a link to the previous version. 15:41:29 Leigh: Is XPath 1.0 a separate module TBD or is it part of this? 15:41:33 Nick: It's part of this. 15:41:41 Leigh: OK so this is what John would edit. 15:41:44 John: Yes. 15:43:20 ACTION: John Boyer to edit http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/specs/XForms1.2/modules/xpath20/index-all.html to add in http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Regex_pattern_and_replace_functions for XPath 1.0 functions 15:43:20 Created ACTION-1813 - Boyer to edit http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/specs/XForms1.2/modules/xpath20/index-all.html to add in http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Regex_pattern_and_replace_functions for XPath 1.0 functions [on John Boyer - due 2011-08-24]. 15:43:36 John: Does it go in the XForms namespace? We decided that. 15:43:42 Nick: It's complicated for users. 15:44:04 John: What about XPath 2.0? It will be in the XForms namespace but for XPath 1.0 add to default? 15:44:06 Nick: Yes. 15:44:45 ACTION: John Boyer to write wikispec for http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Model-based_switching_with_switch 15:44:45 Created ACTION-1814 - Boyer to write wikispec for http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Model-based_switching_with_switch [on John Boyer - due 2011-08-24]. 15:45:18 John: Are there things on this list already done in the spec? Can we mark them? For example for MIPS. We already implemented this. 15:45:20 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/MIPS 15:46:14 John: This was crucial to integrate with IBM Case Manager because the binds are injected into authored binds. 15:46:21 s/authored/forms with authored/ 15:46:28 Nick: It's not there eyt. 15:46:31 s/eyt/yet/ 15:46:44 Nick: We restructured but and factored out XPath. 15:47:26 John: I'm highly interested. Once we do it we should mark it. 15:48:23 Nick: I put a link to to the draft spec in XPath_2.0. 15:49:49 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Node_%27create%27_functions 15:50:12 nick has joined #forms 15:50:23 nick1 has joined #forms 15:51:23 nick has joined #forms 15:52:29 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Special:Categories 15:53:47 Leigh: SO yes, we need to deal with the XForms12 to XForms20 rename. And I created XForms20Migrated to put onto things that are moved out of those pages and into the spec. 15:53:58 John: XForms20Migrated means quit messing with that wiki page. 15:54:22 Nick: I added XForms20Migrated to node creation functions. 15:54:30 http://www.w3.org/2007/10/htmldiff?doc1=http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/specs/XForms1.2/modules/xpath20/index-all-20110621.html&doc2=http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/specs/XForms1.2/modules/xpath20/index-all-20110707.html 15:55:59 John: We can continue this process next week. 15:56:09 Topic: Other issues? 15:57:21 John: We had a patent issued in July for extended way of dealing with DSIG over XForms-based documents. A Document that contains an XForm, and the Document goes through several stages where different parts are signed, we have an extension mechanism that talks about better protecting partially signed content. I don't see this in the spec but want to mention it as something notable we're doing. 15:57:39 Philip: The Transformation stuff hasn't been mentioned. 15:57:59 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/The_XForms_Transform_Function_Module 15:58:26 Leigh: I see it's written up in http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Transform and it has the Transform Function Module. 15:58:47 Philip: There was a way of describing a transformation as we do a submission. 15:58:57 Leigh: Which do you think we should pursue, or both? 15:59:38 Philip: We need a way of describing a transformation and a way of invoking one, either function or action. We need a more fully-featured way of describing a transformation. We need both. 15:59:48 Leigh: Is there a wiki page for the description? 16:00:53 Leigh: The_XForms_Transform_Function_Module just describes the function, not the action? 16:00:57 Nick: It's before the last discussion. 16:02:01 Philip: I'll send out email about the transform definition. 16:02:12 -pfennell 16:02:13 -Nick_van_den_Bleeken 16:02:15 -John_Boyer 16:02:16 -alain 16:02:16 -Leigh_Klotz 16:02:17 IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended 16:02:18 Attendees were +44.782.483.aaaa, Leigh_Klotz, John_Boyer, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, pfennell, alain 16:02:21 rrsagent, make minutes 16:02:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/17-forms-minutes.html klotz 17:41:18 Zakim has left #forms 18:26:58 alain has joined #forms 18:27:33 alain has left #forms