16:54:03 RRSAgent has joined #ua 16:54:03 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-irc 16:54:05 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:54:05 Zakim has joined #ua 16:54:07 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 16:54:07 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes 16:54:08 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 16:54:08 Date: 11 August 2011 16:54:18 kford has joined #ua 16:54:40 trackbot, start meeting 16:54:42 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:54:44 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 16:54:44 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes 16:54:45 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 16:54:45 Date: 11 August 2011 16:56:10 zakim, set logs public 16:56:10 I don't understand 'set logs public', AndroUser2 16:56:35 rrsagent, set logs public 16:57:19 hey there. 16:58:44 Chair: Jim Allan, Kelly Ford 16:58:45 Agenda+ survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/abc/ 16:58:47 Agenda+ Prep for 8/18 writing session 16:58:48 Agenda+ review comments - 16:58:50 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JulSep/0010.html 16:58:52 Agenda+ Items needing summary 16:58:54 1.6 1.7 1.8 1.9 1.10 1.11 16:58:56 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 2.9 2.10 2.11 16:58:58 3.1 3.2 3.3 3.4 16:59:00 4.2 16:59:01 Agenda+ Continue work on IER items needing content 16:59:03 1.9.6 7 10 11 - focus (examples only) 16:59:05 1.10.3 examples only 16:59:06 1.11.1. extended Link info 16:59:08 2.5.1 discover keystrokes 16:59:09 2.5.2 access relationships 16:59:11 2.5.7 Configure Set of Important Elements 16:59:12 2.7.1 - 7 preference settings 16:59:14 2.11.3, 2.11.4 execution placeholder and toggle 16:59:16 2.11.6 Stop/Pause/Resume Time-Based Media 16:59:18 2.11.7 Navigate Time-Based Media 16:59:19 2.11.8 Semantic Navigation of Time-Based Media 16:59:21 2.11.9 Track Enable/Disable of Time-Based Media 2.11.10 Sizing Playback Viewport: (examples) 16:59:23 2.11.11 Scale and position alternative media tracks (examples) 16:59:24 2.11.12 Adjust Playback Contrast and Brightness (examples) 16:59:26 4.2.1-3 Nested user agents (focus) 16:59:27 Agenda+ Action Item Review 17:00:47 Regrets: Jim 17:02:08 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 17:02:15 +[Microsoft] 17:02:34 zakim, microsoft is kford 17:02:34 +kford; got it 17:02:37 jeanne has joined #ua 17:03:13 Greg has joined #ua 17:03:15 sharper has joined #ua 17:03:29 zakim, code? 17:03:29 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sharper 17:03:42 + +1.425.895.aaaa 17:03:50 zakim, aaaa is me 17:03:50 +Greg; got it 17:03:55 +Jeanne 17:03:58 +??P13 17:04:06 zakim, ??P13 is sharper 17:04:06 +sharper; got it 17:06:53 zakim, agenda? 17:06:53 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda: 17:06:55 1. survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/abc/ [from kford] 17:06:57 2. Prep for 8/18 writing session [from kford] 17:06:59 3. review comments - [from kford] 17:07:01 4. Items needing summary [from kford] 17:07:02 5. Continue work on IER items needing content [from kford] 17:07:03 6. Action Item Review [from kford] 17:08:27 + +1.617.325.aabb 17:09:28 KimPatch has joined #ua 17:10:31 Group starts by looking at survey. 17:10:37 Talking about 2.5.2. 17:11:37 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-UAAG20-20110718/ 17:12:42 1.11.1 is a duplicate of 2.5.2. 1.11.1 has IER. 17:13:03 1.11.1 is appropriate if it's meant to be about presenting info, 2.5.2 if it's meant to be about navigation. 17:13:27 1.11.1 Access Relationships: 17:13:29 The user can access explicitly-defined relationships based on the user's position in content (e.g. show form control's label, show label's form control, show a cell's table headers). (Level A) : 17:13:30 * Intent of Success Criterion 1.11.1: 17:13:32 Some users have difficulty perceiving, remembering, or understand the relationships between elements and their contexts. HTML controls and elements are sometimes grouped together to make up a composite control; certain elements relate to others in a recognizable manner, such as relationships with 'id' attributes and child elements. This is the case with Ajax widgets and with form... 17:13:33 ...elements. By making sure the user can be informed about these relationships means that, say, visually disabled users can better understand these relationships even if the elements are not adjacent on the screen or the DOM. 17:13:35 * Examples of Success Criterion 1.11.1: 17:13:36 o John has low vision and uses a screen magnifier to access his Browser. When interacting with tables and spreadsheets John has to move the viewport of the magnifier to understand the row and column titles of the cell with which he is interacting. This takes additional time and effort and is therefore frustrating. John has just purchased a new Browser because it presents the row... 17:13:40 ...and column titles when he hovers over a cell - this makes him much more productive at his accounting job. 17:13:42 * Related Resources for Success Criterion 1.11.1: 17:13:44 o WAI-ARIA 17:13:47 o UAAG 2.7.3 Location in Hierarchy 17:13:48 2.5.2 Access Relationships: 17:13:50 The user can access explicitly-defined relationships based on the user's position in content (e.g. show form control's label, show label's form control, show a cell's table headers). (Level A) 17:13:53 * Intent of Success Criterion 2.5.2 : 17:13:55 @@ Editors' Note: postponed for more information about the intent of this SC. Is it about providing flyover information? Or is it out of place and really belongs in Principle 2? @@ 17:13:58 * Examples of Success Criterion 2.5.2 : 17:14:00 o To be written 17:14:03 * Related Resources for Success Criterion 2.5.2 : 17:14:04 o also see Success Criteria 4.7.x Location in Hierarchy 17:15:28 zakim, who is making noise? 17:15:38 sharper, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jeanne (8%), +1.617.325.aabb (9%) 17:16:06 zakim, aabb is Kim 17:16:06 +Kim; got it 17:18:49 KF: Let's go with this in 1.11.1. 17:19:58 2.5 is about structural navigation, and 2.5.1 is about shortcut keys, so 2.5.1 doesn't belong there, it belongs in another guideline. 17:21:28 Group continuing to talk about location of items. 17:21:44 Discussion centering around what belongs in perceivable and operable. 17:22:10 rrsagent, make minutes 17:22:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-minutes.html kford 17:22:47 There are two ways we could divide up discoverable from operable: the first is that anything the user sees (etc.) is under perceivable, and only what they actually do (input) is under operable; the second is that everything related to reading (etc.) is under perceivable while everything relating to input (including everything you need for keyboard shortcuts, etc.) is under operable. 17:24:03 Jeanne feels this should go with the rest of the accesskeys-related SC, which would be under 2.3 Direct Navigation and Activation. 17:24:52 Kelly thinks 1.10.3 is a duplicate of 2.5.7. 17:25:08 2.5.7 Configure Set of Important Elements: 17:25:10 The user has the option to configure the set of important elements for structured navigation, including by element type (e.g. headers, list items, images). (Level AAA) @@ Editor's note: Review the definition of "important elements" @@ 17:25:26 1.10.3 Configure Set of Important Elements: 17:25:27 The user can configure the set of important elements for the hierarchical view, including by element type (e.g. headers). (Level AAA) 17:26:04 Actually 2.5.7 is "for structured navigation" while 1.10.3 is "for hierarchical view". 17:26:51 1.10.3 Configure Elements for Hierarchical Views, and 2.5.7 Configure Elements for Structured Navigation? 17:27:28 I think that 1.10.3 Configure Set of Important Elements for Hierarchical Views is a little long. 17:27:44 So I suggested just taking out "set of important" from each. 17:28:23 configure important elements for structural navigation, configured important elements for hierarchical views 17:29:46 Action: JS to update titles for 1.10.3 and 2.5.7 to remove set of important from title and add elements being configured. See text from KP. 17:29:47 Created ACTION-603 - Update titles for 1.10.3 and 2.5.7 to remove set of important from title and add elements being configured. See text from KP. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-08-18]. 17:35:11 zakim, who is making noise? 17:35:22 sharper, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: kford (29%), Greg (5%), sharper (4%), Kim (5%) 17:36:26 zakim, who is making noise? 17:36:31 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JulSep/0026.html 17:36:37 kford, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: sharper (90%), Kim (18%) 17:36:52 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JulSep/0026.html 17:39:24 Here is a proposal that Simon did in May http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JanMar/0088.html 17:41:34 group now looking at duplicate entries. 17:43:09 GL goes through a list of dupes. We think we have addressed all he raised. 17:43:39 Went through table generated from June 9 draft and found total duplicate of 1.11.2 = 2.5.2, duplicate title for 2.5.7 = 1.10.3, and duplicates of 1.9.6 and 1.9.7 left over when they were moved and which we've already taken care of. 17:44:54 1.11.2 and 2.5.2 was Access Relationships, 2.5.7 and 1.10.3 was Configure Set of Important Elements, and 1.9.6 and 1.9.7 were Retrieve Focus and Return Focus respectively. 17:49:03 SH: I think we have had discussions around this. The thinking is that by complying with 4.1 an asssitive technology could do the end result of 2.5.2 and show relationships if it so chose. 17:50:58 -Jeanne 17:51:20 +Jeanne 17:55:40 I say we delete 2.5.2 (Access Relationships) since it's a duplicate of 1.11.1, but take an action item to decide whether we need to put equivalents of 1.11.1 rewritten to address navigation by relationships and and exposing relationships to assistive technology in 2.5 and 4.1 respectively. 17:58:02 action: jeanne to delete 2.5.2 to renumber 2.5 appropriately. 17:58:02 Created ACTION-604 - Delete 2.5.2 to renumber 2.5 appropriately. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-08-18]. 17:59:09 zakim, agenda? 17:59:09 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda: 17:59:10 1. survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/abc/ [from kford] 17:59:13 2. Prep for 8/18 writing session [from kford] 17:59:15 3. review comments - [from kford] 17:59:17 4. Items needing summary [from kford] 17:59:19 5. Continue work on IER items needing content [from kford] 17:59:21 6. Action Item Review [from kford] 17:59:28 Action: sharper to look at consolidation of 4.1 and 1.11 etc 17:59:28 Created ACTION-605 - Look at consolidation of 4.1 and 1.11 etc [on Simon Harper - due 2011-08-18]. 18:05:43 In answer to Simon's comment, I used the term "Hierarchical View" instead of "Outline View" because the latter would make readers think of the specific implementations in Microsoft Word (and perhaps other products), and the actual range of possible implementations is much broader (e.g. HeadingsMap add-on for Firefox, etc.) 18:07:03 SH: We need to consolidate the language we use around these navigations and configurations. 18:08:45 zakim, agenda? 18:08:45 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda: 18:08:47 1. survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/abc/ [from kford] 18:08:49 2. Prep for 8/18 writing session [from kford] 18:08:51 3. review comments - [from kford] 18:08:52 4. Items needing summary [from kford] 18:08:53 5. Continue work on IER items needing content [from kford] 18:08:55 I see 2.7 as the general mechanisms for how user preference settings should be configurable, storable, etc., but not about what settings should be provided; the latter would be scatted about the document. 18:08:57 6. Action Item Review [from kford] 18:09:16 zakim, close item 1 18:09:16 agendum 1, survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/abc/, closed 18:09:19 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:09:23 2. Prep for 8/18 writing session [from kford] 18:09:27 zakim, take up item 2 18:09:27 agendum 2. "Prep for 8/18 writing session" taken up [from kford] 18:18:26 zakim, agenda? 18:18:26 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda: 18:18:27 2. Prep for 8/18 writing session [from kford] 18:18:28 3. review comments - [from kford] 18:18:30 4. Items needing summary [from kford] 18:18:32 5. Continue work on IER items needing content [from kford] 18:18:34 6. Action Item Review [from kford] 18:19:38 rrsagent, make minutes 18:19:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-minutes.html kford 18:19:41 -sharper 18:19:45 -Greg 18:27:04 -Jeanne 18:50:47 -kford 18:50:56 -Kim 18:50:57 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 18:50:59 Attendees were kford, +1.425.895.aaaa, Greg, Jeanne, sharper, +1.617.325.aabb, Kim 18:51:31 kford has joined #ua 18:51:44 rrsagent, make minutes 18:51:44 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-minutes.html kford 18:53:08 regrets+Mark 18:53:15 rrsagent, make minutes 18:53:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-minutes.html kford 19:02:35 zakim, please part 19:02:35 Zakim has left #ua 19:02:58 rrsagent, make minutes 19:02:58 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-minutes.html kford 19:11:27 rrsagent, please part 19:11:27 I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-actions.rdf : 19:11:27 ACTION: JS to update titles for 1.10.3 and 2.5.7 to remove set of important from title and add elements being configured. See text from KP. [1] 19:11:27 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-irc#T17-29-46 19:11:27 ACTION: jeanne to delete 2.5.2 to renumber 2.5 appropriately. [2] 19:11:27 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-irc#T17-58-02 19:11:27 ACTION: sharper to look at consolidation of 4.1 and 1.11 etc [3] 19:11:27 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-irc#T17-59-28