W3C

- DRAFT -

LLD XG

11 Aug 2011

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
antoine, kai, +1.423.463.aaaa, rsinger, +33.1.44.78.aabb, kcoyle, +1.330.289.aacc, marcia, Tom_Baker, +1.614.764.aaee, jeff_, emma_, edsu, rayd, kefo, +49.4.aaff, jneubert, uldis
Regrets
Peter, Jodi, Monica, Uldis
Chair
Emma
Scribe
Ross

Contents


<emma> Meetin : LLd XG

<emma> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html

<emma> Previous: 2011-08-04 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html

Zakim: aaaa is me

'

er

argh

ok

alright: )

<antoine> Scribe: Ross

<antoine> Scribenick: rsinger

Minutes of previous telecons

PROPOSED: To accept

http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html

er

Admin

Minutes of previous telecons PROPOSED: To accept http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html

<antoine> RESOLVED: To accept http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html

COMMENTS RECEIVED

-- Current, up-to-date compilation of all sections (note that sections

must be edited separately)

http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportWithTransclusion

<scribe> ACTION: Jodi to make an alternative transclusion [recorded in [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-lld-minutes.html#action01]

http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html#action04]

<antoine> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportWithTransclusion-Multiple_Reports

antoine: in general it seems alright
... could use input from others, but it's the right direction

emma: but it does include the new text from the vocabs section

antoine: prepared a shortened introduction that could replace the longer one
... we can remove all of the sections of relevant datasets / put them on the end?
... I know this is not all completely clear :)

kcoyle: the section of relevant technologies - none of those have introductions; they're very concise
... I don't believe it would fit in that area, stylistically

<antoine> My shortened intro: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section2

kcoyle: they are all very short statements, if there's more to be said, it should be an area with more detail

antoine: karen has a point

emma: i would prefer it as an appendix, opinions?

channel: silence

antoine: so do we prefer the longer or shorter introductory text?

kcoyle: this goes with the appendix on datasets and vocabularies?

antoine: i can produce three different version

kcoyle: I don't know that that's necessary, if it's in the appendix - we aren't limiting appendices' lengths

emma: I prefer the shorter version

kcoyle: the benefits we're keeping short, so people will read them -- it makes sense to let the appendices be longer, if people want to read them

<scribe> --done

<antoine> ACTION: Jodi to make an alternative transclusion [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html#action04] [DONE]

-- Maintained by volunteers responsible for acknowledging and

answering posted reviews

2011-07-23 to 2001-07-30: Daniel

2011-07-30 to 2001-08-11: Emma

2011-08-11 to 2001-08-18: ?

<scribe> ACTION: Emma to keep track of comments through AUG. 11 [recorded in [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-lld-minutes.html#action03]

http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html#action03]

<scribe> --DONE

did or did not?

emma: I did not include the vendors' comments in the tracking process

the action as written is :)

<jneubert> me zakim, mute me

<scribe> ACTION: Editors of each section should watch for substantial comments to their section [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/06/30-lld-minutes.html#action06] [DONE]

FINAL DELIVERABLES

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY (tbd)

-- http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/ExecutiveSummary

emma: this was due last week

kcoyle: I sent out an outline last week, with no response. Last night I wrote up a crude draft and it's in the transclusion, but still needs work

<antoine> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportWithTransclusion#Executive_Summary

kcoyle: but if there's something there, other people might edit it

emma: There's nothing in the version

<antoine> Newest version:http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportWithTransclusion-Multiple_Reports#Executive_Summary

emma: this is the newest version, but Jodi said we should replace the old version

kcoyle: adding the Executive Summary into it now
... typing....
... now in both versions
... but not very good

emma: This should get review and comments on the list

kcoyle: we need to determine how much detail to put into it
... And there should be another section, per TomB, about methodology

emma: Karen, could send a call on the list to solicit comments?

kcoyle: sure

<scribe> ACTION: Karen, Tom, Michael, and Gordon to write the executive summary due in two weeks. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minutes.html#action05] [CONTINUES]

"LIBRARY LINKED DATA": SCOPE OF THIS REPORT (Karen, Peter, Tom, Gordon, Jodi)

-- http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits#.22Library_Linked_Data.22:_Scope_of_this_report

antoine: back to the exec summary, I see that the benefits are under the executive summary

TomB: do we have a clear action on the methodology section?

emma: No.

<antoine> kcoyle: the benefits are not in the executive summary

TomB: I would like to propose we have a paragraph or two about this and you can give me an action

<scribe> ACTION: TomB to write the methodology paragraph [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-lld-minutes.html#action06]

emma: Any other comments?
... we can discuss the scope of the report
... We had a definition of "open data" which is now in discussion on the list
... does anybody have any comments? Otherwise, discuss on the list.
... no comment, moving on to the Benefits section

<kai> I consider it important, but on the list is ok

emma: Benefits editors met on Tuesday: Ed, Emma and Tom (Ross absent)
... We didn't change the structure of the section
... some rewriting, parts were unclear
... Added a few items

<emma_> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/index.php?title=Benefits&diff=5697&oldid=5271

emma: that is a diff between late July and today
... most are editorial, removed Stone Soup

:(

<antoine> :( too

scribe: benefits to researchers, benefits to organization, bottom up/top down
... benefits to librarians: data semantics, data structures
... benefits to developers and vendors: small addition

kcoyle: there is a point where the part about semantics, "By making a clean distinction ... linked data will be better". But it seems... it's making "use of" the semantics, that sentence doesn't explain it - it makes the distinction.
... if I think of something better, I'll make a change

emma: better standards, not better data

kcoyle: it makes me not understand that you want them both

<jeff_> how about "better vocabularies" rather than "better standards"?

TomB: This is a point that Gordon was making: by making the distinction between semantic syntax ; it makes the standards independent of the encoding or serialization
... it's not intended to imply that it's not important, how to make standards that are more durable by making them independent of any data structure

kcoyle: that's not clear in the present wording

TomB: if that's not coming out, please add some ideas

<scribe> ACTION: Editors of BENEFITS to meet and work on the comments. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-lld-minutes.html#action07]

[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html#action07]

<scribe> --DONE

<scribe> ACTION: Karen will track items from former "issues" and "recommendations" that belong to benefits [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html#action08] [DONE]

AVAILABLE VOCABULARIES AND DATASETS (Antoine, Jeff, Marcia, William) -- http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section

emma: Any comments?

<antoine> no!

emma: This is a set item, we can move on

RELEVANT TECHNOLOGIES (Jeff) -- http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technologies

emma: This is now an appendix at the end

<antoine> we can drop the first action

emma: any comments on the two actions in the section?

<scribe> ACTION: everybody to scrutinize the relevant technologies to solve the issue of mixing different levels [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minutes.html#action09] [DROPPED]

emma: Jeff any update on your other action?
... no news (is good news)

<antoine> s/US/UC

<scribe> ACTION: Jeff to integrate more refined view of non-resolvable URIs and linking. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minutes.html#action08] [CONTINUES]

emma: we can use the rest of the time to discuss the Social UC
... and push the other topics to next week

uldis: we have completed the social use case cluster , the use cases are completed
... and there are summaries

<emma_> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Social_Uses#Scenarios_.28Case_Studies.29

uldis: we are looking forward to feedback and suggestions

emma: We need to include the new stuff in the use case report, I don't think it's been done

<antoine> it's done, as a draft

uldis: Yes, I think it was there already, but it needs to be verified
... need to contact Daniel to add summary

<emma_> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseReport#Social_and_new_uses

emma: is this overlapping with your new pages?

<uldis> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseReport#Social_and_new_uses_2

uldis: that is the extracted summaries, possibly more of a draft form. The use cases are finished, but the summaries are more draft-ish
... Not a full list of use cases
... there are 4 that still need to be summarized

emma: would you add these 4 to the use case report? Or would you prefer Daniel to do it?

<antoine> I think Uldis and Jodi could take care of it.

uldis: it would be good to add, if Daniel could do it, it would be a fresh view

<antoine> ...I'm not sure he's really around the coming days...

<scribe> ACTION: Uldis, Jodi and Daniel to include the Social Use cases to the final report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-lld-minutes.html#action11]

antoine: you're spared :)

<antoine> :-)

THE SCRIBE HAS SAVED YOU (cheques welcome)

<antoine> I'll remember this :-D

<uldis> here are Social and Emergent Use Cases themselves:

<uldis> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Social_Uses#Scenarios_.28Case_Studies.29

emma: we only have 5 minutes, so I'm not sure it's worth discussing the challenges and barriers section

<uldis> there were also changes to the Social Uses Cluster page

<uldis> mainly in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Social_Uses#Problems_and_Limitations + relevant technologies / vocabs

antoine: There are some comments that have not been addressed, but that will not make it shorter

<marcia> Linking across datasets has begun but requires further effort and coordination

kcoyle: the linking across datasets is long and detailed and does fit into the other sections
... the details should be moved to the appendix

antoine: that may actually unbalance the appendix

kcoyle: there should be one, short explanatory paragraph for each point

antoine: paragraphs around data availability won't change? or won't change much?

TomB: I wanted to add that the data availability points do belong in that section, but they don't fit with the rest of the section
... it's not that i think it's too long, but it belongs there in a shorter form
... moving it to the appendix would solve the problem

emma: any other topics for today?
... meeting adjourned.

<jneubert> thanks and bye

<marcia> thanks

<kefo> bye

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Editors of BENEFITS to meet and work on the comments. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-lld-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: Emma to keep track of comments through AUG. 11 [recorded in [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-lld-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Jodi to make an alternative transclusion [recorded in [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-lld-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: TomB to write the methodology paragraph [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-lld-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Uldis, Jodi and Daniel to include the Social Use cases to the final report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-lld-minutes.html#action11]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: Jeff to integrate more refined view of non-resolvable URIs and linking. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minutes.html#action08]
[PENDING] ACTION: Karen, Tom, Michael, and Gordon to write the executive summary due in two weeks. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minutes.html#action05]
 
[DONE] ACTION: Editors of each section should watch for substantial comments to their section [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/06/30-lld-minutes.html#action06]
[DONE] ACTION: Jodi to make an alternative transclusion [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html#action04]
[DONE] ACTION: Karen will track items from former "issues" and "recommendations" that belong to benefits [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/04-lld-minutes.html#action08]
 
[DROPPED] ACTION: everybody to scrutinize the relevant technologies to solve the issue of mixing different levels [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minutes.html#action09]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.136 (CVS log)
$Date: 2011/08/11 15:00:07 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136  of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

FAILED: s/US/UC/
Succeeded: s/would/would be/
Succeeded: s/data availability/paragraphs around data availability/
Found Scribe: Ross
Found ScribeNick: rsinger

WARNING: Replacing list of attendees.
Old list: +1.202.445.aaaa
New list: antoine kai +1.423.463.aaaa rsinger +33.1.44.78.aabb kcoyle +1.330.289.aacc marcia Tom_Baker +1.614.764.aaee jeff_ emma_ edsu rayd kefo +49.4.aaff jneubert uldis

Default Present: antoine, kai, +1.423.463.aaaa, rsinger, +33.1.44.78.aabb, kcoyle, +1.330.289.aacc, marcia, Tom_Baker, +1.614.764.aaee, jeff_, emma_, edsu, rayd, kefo, +49.4.aaff, jneubert, uldis
Present: antoine kai +1.423.463.aaaa rsinger +33.1.44.78.aabb kcoyle +1.330.289.aacc marcia Tom_Baker +1.614.764.aaee jeff_ emma_ edsu rayd kefo +49.4.aaff jneubert uldis
Regrets: Peter Jodi Monica Uldis
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Aug/0026.html
Got date from IRC log name: 11 Aug 2011
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-lld-minutes.html
People with action items: benefits daniel editors emma gordon jeff jodi karen michael of tom tomb uldis

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]