IRC log of css on 2011-08-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:45:48 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #css
15:45:48 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/10-css-irc
15:46:23 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #css
15:46:33 [plinss]: zakim, this will be style
15:46:33 [Zakim]: ok, plinss; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
15:46:48 [plinss]: rrsagent, make logs public
15:48:54 [stearns]: stearns has joined #css
15:55:41 [Zakim]: Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
15:55:47 [Zakim]: +plinss
15:56:21 [nimbupani]: plinss: is it okay if I join only via IRC for today?
15:56:37 [Zakim]: +??P5
15:56:49 [florian]: Zakim, I am ??P5
15:56:50 [Zakim]: +florian; got it
15:56:51 [plinss]: nimbupani: sure
15:56:55 [nimbupani]: thanks!
15:57:24 [oyvind]: oyvind has joined #css
15:57:54 [Zakim]: + +1.206.550.aaaa
15:58:07 [stearns]: Zakim, I am aaaa
15:58:07 [Zakim]: +stearns; got it
15:58:10 [Zakim]: +??P7
15:58:20 [danielweck]: Zakim, ??P7 is me
15:58:20 [Zakim]: +danielweck; got it
16:00:19 [Zakim]: + +1.619.846.aabb
16:00:25 [hober]: Zakim, aabb is me
16:00:25 [Zakim]: +hober; got it
16:00:33 [Zakim]: + +1.215.286.aacc
16:00:36 [kimberlyblessing]: kimberlyblessing has joined #css
16:01:02 [bradk]: bradk has joined #css
16:01:16 [konaya]: konaya has joined #css
16:01:24 [Zakim]: +??P14
16:02:09 [Zakim]: + +1.650.275.aadd
16:02:22 [bradk]: zakim, aadd is me
16:02:22 [Zakim]: +bradk; got it
16:03:04 [Zakim]: +??P18
16:03:09 [bradk]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:09 [Zakim]: On the phone I see plinss, florian, stearns, danielweck, hober, +1.215.286.aacc, ??P14, bradk, ??P18
16:03:40 [Zakim]: + +1.408.636.aaee
16:04:07 [kimberlyblessing]: Zakim, aacc is me
16:04:07 [Zakim]: +kimberlyblessing; got it
16:04:13 [smfr]: smfr has joined #css
16:04:14 [arronei]: arronei has joined #css
16:04:14 [fantasai]: Zakim, mute ??P18
16:04:14 [Zakim]: ??P18 should now be muted
16:04:28 [fantasai]: Zakim, unmute ??P18
16:04:28 [Zakim]: ??P18 should no longer be muted
16:04:31 [plinss]: zakim, aaee is smfr
16:04:31 [Zakim]: +smfr; got it
16:04:41 [fantasai]: Zakim, ??P14 is me
16:04:41 [Zakim]: +fantasai; got it
16:04:42 [smfr]: Zakim forgot us all again
16:04:46 [fantasai]: zakim, mute me
16:04:46 [Zakim]: fantasai should now be muted
16:04:47 [TabAtkins_]: TabAtkins_ has joined #css
16:04:58 [fantasai]: zakim, unmute me
16:04:58 [Zakim]: fantasai should no longer be muted
16:05:06 [Zakim]: + +1.281.712.aaff
16:05:07 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft]
16:05:08 [arronei]: zakim, microsoft is me
16:05:08 [Zakim]: +arronei; got it
16:05:14 [TabAtkins_]: Zakim, aaff is me
16:05:14 [Zakim]: +TabAtkins_; got it
16:05:23 [plinss]: zakim, ack
16:05:23 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'ack', plinss
16:05:25 [fantasai]: zakim, ack plinss
16:05:25 [Zakim]: I see no one on the speaker queue
16:05:29 [plinss]: zakim, q-
16:05:29 [Zakim]: I see no one on the speaker queue
16:06:10 [Zakim]: -bradk
16:06:21 [bradk]: doh!
16:06:24 [fantasai]: ScribeNick: fantasai
16:06:49 [fantasai]: plinss: Any items to add to agenda?
16:06:57 [Zakim]: +bradk
16:07:00 [fantasai]: plinss: got Alex's note about regions flow
16:07:16 [fantasai]: Topic: Gradient issues
16:07:18 [Zakim]: +Bert
16:07:27 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Mainly issues we didn't close on at F2F
16:07:29 [Zakim]: -bradk
16:07:50 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: First item is repeating gradients, whether they should be done by repeating syntax in gradient functions, or by background-repeat magic
16:08:01 [Zakim]: + +47.21.65.aagg
16:08:19 [howcome]: howcome has joined #css
16:08:21 [dbaron]: dbaron has joined #css
16:08:28 [Zakim]: +bradk
16:08:30 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Other issue is gradient keywords, i've now set the keyword 'to' and either a side or corner
16:08:34 [plinss]: zakim, who is noisy?
16:08:37 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: e.g. 'to bottom left'
16:08:37 [bradk]: stupid phone
16:08:42 [Zakim]: + +1.650.618.aahh
16:08:45 [Zakim]: plinss, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: smfr (24%), TabAtkins_ (34%)
16:08:58 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Put keywords back and made keywords magic again
16:09:05 [fantasai]: Florian is happy with this too
16:09:15 [fantasai]: s/keywords/corners/
16:09:36 [Zakim]: + +1.415.832.aaii
16:09:38 [fantasai]: smfr: I think it's ok, but why not use 'from' and make the 'from' optional so we have compat with the old syntax?
16:09:48 [vhardy]: vhardy has joined #css
16:09:54 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Using 'from' rather than 'to' would give the opposite directionalitiy thing that confused people
16:09:59 [fantasai]: smfr: Only some people
16:10:51 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Since we're changing behavior for corner to corner, so ...
16:11:23 [fantasai]: fantasai: I think this is also confusing, with 'to left' I'm not sure whether a fixed-length gradient is attached to the left or right edge -- I would guess right edge
16:11:30 [fantasai]: Florian: Think this is good enough
16:12:19 [fantasai]: fantasai: Another question is animating the gradients, given corners aren't equivalent to angle gradients anymore?
16:12:37 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: They're still equivalent
16:13:07 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: It's just a different angle
16:13:33 [fantasai]: computation
16:14:13 [fantasai]: bradk: Does the spec take into account that changing the angle changes if the box size changes?
16:14:25 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: yes. More details to in css4-images -- I pushed animations out of L3
16:14:38 [fantasai]: bradk: How is it defined now?
16:14:49 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Right now images aren't animatable at all, rules are pushed to L4
16:15:09 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Since I pushed cross-fade() to L4, you can't do generic animations for images anyway, so pushed gradient animations out too
16:15:42 [fantasai]: plinss: If you're animating the width and height of a box independently and using corner-to-corner gradient, you are by definition of the gradient angle?
16:16:10 [fantasai]: plinss: If you're then simultaneously animating angle of gradient.. if you compute start point and endpoint, might have animation go retrograde
16:16:14 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Yeah, that should not happen.
16:16:20 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: have similar problems in other situations
16:16:31 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: At each step you need to recalculate your range
16:16:41 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Different than snapshotting values at the beginning
16:17:03 [fantasai]: Florian: You set your course, and your percentage done changes over time
16:17:08 [fantasai]: plinss: Back to keywords issue
16:17:22 [fantasai]: fantasai: Would like to push to WD and see if we get any comments
16:17:42 [fantasai]: bradk: I like what's happening in linear gradient, still trying to give full review to radial gradients
16:17:46 [fantasai]: bradk: Not ready for LC yet
16:17:52 [Zakim]: -danielweck
16:18:04 [Zakim]: +??P7
16:18:10 [danielweck]: Zakim, ??P7 is me
16:18:10 [Zakim]: +danielweck; got it
16:18:49 [fantasai]: Florian: The default for linear gradients has been downward for a long time, which is now either 'to bottom' or '180deg'
16:18:58 [fantasai]: Florian: Usually default is 0deg or top
16:19:15 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: He's suggesting that we flip the default around they colors start at the bottom and go upward
16:19:31 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: I don't have a problem with this, but don't have a particular reason to change. It's been default for awhile
16:19:46 [fantasai]: bradk: Fallback is still reasonable, because we're changing the syntax
16:19:53 [fantasai]: fantasai: We're not changing that part of the syntax
16:20:12 [fantasai]: fantasai: I think the default should stay. I think from the top makes the most sense
16:20:42 [fantasai]: bradk: Wouldn't changing it mess up prefixed versions?
16:20:53 [fantasai]: fantasai: dbaron already said he won't do that
16:21:30 [fantasai]: plinss: In general we're not going to not make a good change to a property because of prefixed versions
16:21:57 [fantasai]: plinss: If it doesn't matter much, sure, but in general don't want to consider prefixed versions
16:22:09 [fantasai]: Florian: Since there's no consensus to change, let's leave as-is
16:22:13 [fantasai]: smfr: Mark as an issue?
16:22:24 [fantasai]: smfr: Do we need direction keywords that are writing-mode-aware?
16:23:10 [fantasai]: Florian: And bidi-aware, too
16:23:40 [fantasai]: Florian: Should we add that to writing-modes?
16:23:52 [fantasai]: fantasai: No, belongs in the appropriate module. writing-modes only deals with CSS2.1 issues
16:24:21 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Could add them. Although the keywords are a bit weird, e.g. 'to start before'.
16:24:30 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Would like to see some examples of this
16:24:48 [fantasai]: bradk: Gradient from black to white from top to bottom, and reversed-color headline at the top
16:25:30 [fantasai]: fantasai: Example of sidebar menu items with horizontal gradient that fades out towards the end edge. Would want that logical as well
16:26:09 [fantasai]: Florian: [something about writing modes dependency]
16:26:18 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Don't believe I need any keywords from writing modes
16:26:42 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Could maybe refer to 2.1
16:26:44 [florian]: Yes
16:27:02 [fantasai]: fantasai: Nothing in 2.1, but if it becomes an issue we could pull out a glossary from writing-modes and publish it as a WG Note or something
16:27:22 [fantasai]: RESOLVED: Add logical keywords to gradients
16:28:00 [fantasai]: RESOLVED: Publish next WD with 'to <keyword>' syntax
16:28:10 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: back to repeating gradient issue
16:28:23 [fantasai]: bradk: Already made my case. Not keep arguing it
16:28:37 [fantasai]: bradk: Someday we'll have background-rotate, and it will just be redundant
16:29:27 [fantasai]: some muttering about issue syntax
16:29:36 [fantasai]: s/syntax/wording/
16:29:53 [fantasai]: RESOLVED: No change to how repeating gradients are handled (use repeat-* functions)
16:30:42 [fantasai]: RESOLVED: Publish updated WD of css3-images with these changes
16:31:02 [fantasai]: Topic: CSS Speech LCWD
16:31:06 [danielweck]: I am on a high-latency and generally slow wifi connection (scrambled VoIP audio),
16:31:06 [danielweck]: so I will be dumping IRC text while I speak.
16:31:29 [danielweck]: All of the issues that were raised for CSS-SPEECH on the public mailing list
16:31:29 [danielweck]: have now been addressed in the specification.
16:31:45 [danielweck]: I would like to renew my thanks to Fantasai for finding problems,
16:31:45 [danielweck]: and in helping to design solutions too ;)
16:31:55 [danielweck]: The editors' working draft is ready for Last Call publication,
16:31:55 [danielweck]: and contains the full list of changes since the last public Working Draft (April 2011).
16:31:57 [plinss]: speak: fantasai
16:32:08 [danielweck]: http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-speech/
16:32:08 [danielweck]: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-speech/
16:32:11 [fantasai]: voice-family: fantasai
16:32:30 [danielweck]: any objections?
16:33:00 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: I haven't given it a thorough review, but I know fantasai has, so I trust that.
16:33:10 [fantasai]: smfr: I have no objection, but I'm concerned about making a test suite
16:33:18 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: I know someone suggested audio reftests shoudl be possible.
16:33:58 [danielweck]: I saw the discussion about tests, but wanted to focus on fixing the spec first
16:34:09 [fantasai]: fantasai: And we can always use human-verifiable tests. Not automatable, but still testable.
16:34:17 [fantasai]: plinss: Any reasons not to publish?
16:34:36 [fantasai]: RESOLVED: Publish LCWD of css3-speech
16:34:44 [danielweck]: yes.
16:34:52 [fantasai]: fantasai: How long is the LC period, and which other WGs to contact?
16:34:56 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Accessibility TF
16:34:57 [danielweck]: (yes to contacting other groups)
16:35:05 [danielweck]: HTML-Speech
16:35:11 [danielweck]: Voice Browser (SSML )
16:35:12 [fantasai]: fantasai: Voice Browser group?
16:35:21 [fantasai]: fantasai: yes, definitely SSML :)
16:36:17 [danielweck]: my previous email
16:36:19 [danielweck]: - The "Voice Browser" Working Group [1] published SSML1.1 [2], so we should definitely ask them to review CSS3-Speech.
16:36:19 [danielweck]: - The "HTML Speech" Incubator Group [3] maintains a W3C Note [4] that explicitly refers to CSS3-Speech effort, so we should contact them too.
16:36:20 [danielweck]: - Given the likelihood of CSS3-Speech being used with/by assistive technologies, I suggest involving the WAI [5] folks as well.
16:36:20 [danielweck]: Regards, Daniel
16:36:21 [danielweck]: [1]
16:36:23 [danielweck]: http://www.w3.org/Voice/
16:36:26 [danielweck]: [2]
16:36:27 [danielweck]: http://www.w3.org/TR/speech-synthesis11/
16:36:30 [danielweck]: [3]
16:36:31 [danielweck]: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/htmlspeech/
16:36:33 [danielweck]: [4]
16:36:36 [danielweck]: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/htmlspeech/live/NOTE-htmlspeech.html
16:36:37 [danielweck]: [5]
16:36:39 [danielweck]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/
16:36:43 [fantasai]: Bert: Can't think of any other groups, but because it's summer maybe we should add a few weeks since it's August [and many people are on vacation]
16:37:04 [danielweck]: end of september sounds good.
16:37:12 [danielweck]: (summer holidays)
16:37:18 [danielweck]: (now)
16:37:19 [florian]: +1 for end of september
16:37:24 [fantasai]: Bert: Yes, end of September is good
16:37:32 [fantasai]: RESOLVED: End comment period at end of September
16:37:37 [danielweck]: thanks.
16:37:41 [fantasai]: Topic: CSS3 Values
16:37:58 [fantasai]: plinss: Request to add some editors
16:38:32 [jeam]: jeam has joined #css
16:38:33 [fantasai]: howcome: What does it need?
16:38:35 [Zakim]: -stearns
16:38:55 [fantasai]: fantasai: Organizational overhaul, fix issues that have outstanding edits for past two years, sync with 2.1
16:39:06 [Zakim]: +stearns
16:39:13 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: This isn't theoreticaly, fantasai and I went ahead and did the majority of the work we'd like to see done
16:39:45 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: We created a patch queue that could be applied to show what we'd like to see out of the draft
16:40:09 [fantasai]: fantaai: We didn't change any of the features, just fixed up the definitions
16:40:18 [fantasai]: howcome: I believe dbaron and clilley are co-editors as well
16:40:32 [fantasai]: howcome: It also affects SVG, not sure it's up to us to just take it
16:40:35 [danielweck]: danielweck has joined #css
16:40:47 [fantasai]: howcome: Very important spec for other modules, don't necessarily think we can bring it to closure
16:40:53 [fantasai]: howcome: Is dbaron on the call?
16:41:01 [fantasai]: howcome: You've gone through this?
16:41:09 [fantasai]: dbaron: I thought I had an action to do one thing at some point, but I have no record of it
16:41:15 [Zakim]: -danielweck
16:41:21 [fantasai]: howcome: You did the definitions that's in there for calc(), right?
16:41:29 [fantasai]: dbaron: I might've written some of it
16:41:45 [fantasai]: howcome: I'm not trying to block progress here. Trying to avoid that we see a lot of changes come out that are not ...
16:41:46 [Zakim]: +??P7
16:41:52 [danielweck]: Zakim, ??P7 is me
16:41:52 [Zakim]: +danielweck; got it
16:41:59 [fantasai]: howcome: we saw for example the hyphenation things that we had a lot of unnecessary conflicts as a result of that change
16:42:09 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: We're not trying to change any features.
16:42:19 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Any conflicts would be about more basic definitions that should be nailed down in any case
16:42:39 [fantasai]: howcome: You plan to take it to CR?
16:42:41 [fantasai]: fantasai: yes
16:42:52 [fantasai]: howcome: What if a spec needs other values?
16:43:04 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Can define it themself. And if it's a common value type, push it to Values Level 4
16:43:13 [fantasai]: plinss: Sounds like a reasonable path forward.
16:43:21 [fantasai]: plinss: Would like to not keep this in ED forever
16:43:37 [fantasai]: howcome: I'm just concerned about making lots of substantial changes
16:44:11 [Zakim]: -danielweck
16:44:19 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: We think the features are fine, just reorganized a bit and updated definitions
16:44:28 [fantasai]: howcome: I think there's issues with calc()
16:44:33 [fantasai]: howcome: Not sure about implementations
16:44:39 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: We're in the middle of implementing
16:44:48 [Zakim]: +??P7
16:44:50 [fantasai]: dbaron: And IE's implement it too
16:45:04 [fantasai]: howcome: Great. Should check with SVGWG if they're ok with this
16:45:06 [danielweck]: Zakim, ??P7 is me
16:45:06 [Zakim]: +danielweck; got it
16:45:27 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Again, since we're not actually changing any features, shouldn't be an issue. Although if SVGWG wants to add stuff to the draft, then good to get that feedback
16:45:35 [dbaron]: there are a bunch of calc()-related resolutions in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Jan/0468.html
16:45:46 [fantasai]: ACTION TabAtkins_ : Discuss editor change on css3-values at FXTF
16:45:46 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - TabAtkins_
16:46:15 [fantasai]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2011Aug/att-0010/Overview.html
16:46:57 [fantasai]: fantasai: The only feature change we did was to add dbaron's cycle() proposal to the draft; there was an open action on that since Jan 2009
16:47:17 [fantasai]: plinss: Not hearing any objections to adding you-guys as co-editors
16:47:47 [fantasai]: plinss: Ready to publish WD?
16:48:04 [fantasai]: fantasai: dbaron just pointed to some resolutions on calc(), need to make sure they're folded in
16:48:11 [fantasai]: dbaron: I think they have been folded in, but prose could use some work
16:48:19 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: So let's look at publishing next week
16:48:34 [fantasai]: Topic: HTML talking about paragraphs pseudo-element selector?
16:48:58 [dbaron]: Also, there was a resolution somewhere on making certain things at-risk.
16:49:02 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Bug was on HTML for allowing styling of anonymous blocks created by block-in-inline split
16:49:05 [hober]: <div>para1<ul><li>foo</li></ul>para2</div>
16:49:17 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: So you could give it padding, margin, etc.
16:49:29 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Guessing what it means is that ::paragraph would match all anonymous block children of an element
16:49:44 [hober]: div ::paragraph matches para1 and para2 above
16:49:47 [fantasai]: plinss: Is this something we want to accept? Where would ot go?
16:50:14 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: The pseudo-element section of Selectors?
16:50:14 [dbaron]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Sep/0003.html has resolutions on marking things in values at risk
16:50:32 [fantasai]: fantasai: There isn't one anymore. Could add it to CSS3 Box.
16:50:51 [fantasai]: fantasai: That's what defines where boxes are generated
16:51:15 [fantasai]: RESOLVED: Assign this as an issue to the box module
16:51:19 [plinss]: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12778
16:51:25 [dbaron]: fantasai, you're planning to land the css3-values patch queue as separate commits, right?
16:51:34 [fantasai]: dbaron, yes :)
16:52:14 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Is this the best way for HTMLWG to send comments to CSSWG?
16:52:19 [fantasai]: fantasai: Did they email www-style?
16:52:29 [fantasai]: fantasai: They should post a message to www-style, just like everyone else.
16:52:46 [fantasai]: plinss: If they want to make sure we get to it, they can CC the internal list or put it on the agenda so we discuss it on the call
16:53:34 [fantasai]: Topic: flow-from()
16:53:56 [fantasai]: plinss: Alex sent an email about content: flow-from() vs flow-from: property
16:54:07 [fantasai]: Alex: We discussed what the right property for making something a region
16:54:18 [fantasai]: Alex: We decided that we like content: flow-from() more than property flow-from:
16:54:26 [fantasai]: Alex: At the moment it sounded totally syntactical
16:54:33 [fantasai]: Alex: Looks like difference is even more
16:54:39 [fantasai]: Alex: The 'content' property is part of generated content
16:54:45 [fantasai]: Alex: Includes ::before and ::after
16:54:57 [fantasai]: Alex: That property is what is supposed to put content in the box, not change the nature of the box
16:55:09 [fantasai]: Alex: It's not whatever layout it was anymore, it's a viewport into something else
16:55:32 [fantasai]: Alex: It's still possible to parse the property and if the only thing it has is flow-from() then that particular value overrides ::before and ::after
16:55:41 [vhardy]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2011JulSep/0164.html
16:55:43 [fantasai]: Alex: and changes layout model
16:56:02 [fantasai]: Alex: I feel pity for content property that it gets such a weird definition
16:56:13 [vhardy]: response from Elika: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2011JulSep/0165.html
16:56:32 [fantasai]: plinss: I think having ::before and ::after work in regions is valuables
16:56:34 [vhardy]: response from Vincent: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2011JulSep/0171.html
16:56:35 [stearns]: +1 to using before and after in regions
16:57:10 [fantasai]: vhardy: We had a long discussion about ::before and ::after, because we had talked about having these continue-before / continue-after markers
16:57:31 [fantasai]: vhardy: Our proposals are to have different pseudos that have a different processing model, that are exclusions
16:57:42 [fantasai]: vhardy: It's different from ::before and ::after
16:58:16 [fantasai]: ...
16:58:23 [fantasai]: Alex: Generic ::before and ::after is not really helpful
16:58:29 [fantasai]: bradk: What about ::marker?
16:58:36 [fantasai]: bradk: Isn't that equivalently a problem?
16:58:55 [fantasai]: Alex: vhardy said his preference is still content: flow-from(). My preference is flow-from:
16:59:25 [fantasai]: Alex: content property can have fallbacks. If one of those is a flow-from(), then first we have to visit all the URLs.
16:59:30 [fantasai]: first
16:59:36 [fantasai]: Alex: Unless flow-from() has to be its only value
16:59:52 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: You said that a region is not a normal element, like it becomes a viewport onto this embedded document
17:00:03 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Wouldn't that indicate that the 'display' property is appropriate?
17:00:15 [fantasai]: Alex: It would make sense for display-inside to have a region value
17:00:24 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Then that seems like an appropriate way to do this
17:00:56 [fantasai]: vhardy: So your suggestion is display-inside: flow-from(..) ?
17:01:02 [fantasai]: Alex: ...
17:01:12 [fantasai]: Alex: Region has to say that it ignores ::before and ::after
17:01:39 [smfr]: am I hearing "display: region"?
17:02:12 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: Having a value for display makes more sense to me, clearer that it has all these other side-effects
17:02:37 [fantasai]: Alex: Should we make css3-regions be the pioneer for display-inside?
17:02:44 [fantasai]: bradk: What does a new display type gain you?
17:02:58 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: The significant switch is that 'display' is very clear that this is doing something very different
17:03:22 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: ... something about conflict resolution ...
17:03:34 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: If 'display' is the switch, then you won't ever have conflicts, it's only one type of display or another
17:03:44 [fantasai]: bradk: Is it just because of ::marker?
17:03:57 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: yes, but also it's changing how you display what's inside of you
17:04:19 [fantasai]: Alex: Display property says what it is, and content property says what it has
17:04:41 [fantasai]: smfr: If you have display: region; how do you say what model you're using?
17:05:02 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: You'd need display-inside
17:05:24 [smfr]: someone is breathing into their phone
17:05:45 [fantasai]: fantasai suggests moving this discussion to www-style
17:06:18 [fantasai]: plinss: Meeting closed.
17:06:18 [Zakim]: -smfr
17:06:21 [Zakim]: - +1.415.832.aaii
17:06:23 [Zakim]: -danielweck
17:06:24 [Zakim]: -florian
17:06:24 [Zakim]: -TabAtkins_
17:06:25 [Zakim]: -dbaron
17:06:25 [Zakim]: - +47.21.65.aagg
17:06:26 [Zakim]: -kimberlyblessing
17:06:26 [Zakim]: -plinss
17:06:28 [Zakim]: -Bert
17:06:30 [Zakim]: -hober
17:06:32 [Zakim]: -fantasai
17:06:34 [Zakim]: -stearns
17:06:36 [Zakim]: -arronei
17:06:38 [Zakim]: -??P18
17:06:40 [Zakim]: -bradk
17:06:42 [Zakim]: Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
17:06:44 [Zakim]: Attendees were plinss, florian, +1.206.550.aaaa, stearns, danielweck, +1.619.846.aabb, hober, +1.215.286.aacc, +1.650.275.aadd, bradk, +1.408.636.aaee, kimberlyblessing, smfr,
17:06:47 [Zakim]: ... fantasai, +1.281.712.aaff, arronei, TabAtkins_, Bert, +47.21.65.aagg, +1.650.618.aahh, dbaron, +1.415.832.aaii
17:08:07 [florian]: florian has left #css
17:46:35 [howcome]: howcome has left #css
18:26:49 [dbaron]: dbaron has joined #css
18:38:21 [stearns]: stearns has joined #css
19:06:52 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #css
19:49:50 [imcostalong]: imcostalong has joined #css
19:50:04 [imcostalong]: having a simple CSS issue can anyone help out
19:55:46 [imcostalong]: imcostalong has joined #css
19:55:59 [imcostalong]: is anyone even here?
20:16:46 [paul_irish]: paul_irish has joined #css
20:40:12 [danielweck]: danielweck has joined #css
21:56:17 [paul_irish]: paul_irish has joined #css
23:42:13 [karl]: karl has joined #CSS
23:44:53 [nimbupani]: nimbupani has joined #css