IRC log of ua on 2011-08-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:13:43 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:13:43 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/04-ua-irc
16:13:45 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:13:45 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
16:13:47 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:13:47 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 47 minutes
16:13:48 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:13:48 [trackbot]
Date: 04 August 2011
16:18:22 [JAllan]
chair: JimAllan, KellyFord
16:19:07 [JAllan]
regrets: Jeanne
16:19:17 [JAllan]
Agenda+ need 4 hour writing call - August
16:19:27 [JAllan]
Agenda+ HTML5 bug review
16:19:39 [JAllan]
Agenda+ duplicates? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0073.html
16:20:05 [JAllan]
Agenda+ review comments - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JulSep/0010.html
16:20:16 [JAllan]
Agenda+ survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/UAWGjuly22/
16:41:20 [JAllan]
regrets: JanRichards
17:00:07 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:00:10 [Greg]
Greg has joined #ua
17:00:29 [Zakim]
+Jim_Allan
17:00:38 [Zakim]
+Greg
17:01:25 [sharper]
sharper has joined #ua
17:02:05 [Zakim]
+??P10
17:02:13 [sharper]
zakim, ??P10 is sharper
17:02:13 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
17:04:11 [KimPatch]
KimPatch has joined #ua
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+KimPatch
17:08:22 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
17:09:13 [kford]
kford has joined #ua
17:10:44 [JAllan]
zakim, +[Microsoft] is really kford
17:10:44 [Zakim]
sorry, JAllan, I do not recognize a party named '+[Microsoft]'
17:10:55 [JAllan]
zakim, [Microsoft] is really kford
17:10:55 [Zakim]
+kford; got it
17:11:16 [JAllan]
zakim, agenda?
17:11:16 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
17:11:18 [Zakim]
1. need 4 hour writing call - August [from JAllan]
17:11:20 [Zakim]
2. HTML5 bug review [from JAllan]
17:11:22 [Zakim]
3. duplicates? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0073.html [from JAllan]
17:11:24 [Zakim]
4. review comments - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JulSep/0010.html [from JAllan]
17:11:27 [Zakim]
5. survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/UAWGjuly22/ [from JAllan]
17:14:33 [JAllan]
scribe: jallan
17:16:18 [JAllan]
discussion of Universal Design, a11y in the press, etc.
17:22:17 [JAllan]
Kudos to Greg for massive HTML5 review!!!
17:22:51 [kford]
Scribe: kford
17:23:06 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:23:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/04-ua-minutes.html kford
17:23:23 [kford]
zakim, agenda?
17:23:23 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
17:23:25 [Zakim]
1. need 4 hour writing call - August [from JAllan]
17:23:27 [Zakim]
2. HTML5 bug review [from JAllan]
17:23:29 [Zakim]
3. duplicates? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0073.html [from JAllan]
17:23:32 [Zakim]
4. review comments - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JulSep/0010.html [from JAllan]
17:23:35 [Zakim]
5. survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/UAWGjuly22/ [from JAllan]
17:23:41 [kford]
zakim, take up item 1
17:23:41 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "need 4 hour writing call - August" taken up [from JAllan]
17:24:13 [kford]
JA: JS back next week. We think we need another writing session. Would be good if we could schedule this in August.
17:24:31 [kford]
JA is out on 8/11.
17:24:46 [kford]
JA: How does August look for people? Maybe 8/18?
17:25:14 [kford]
SH: Sept is bad because that's the start of the academic year.
17:28:09 [kford]
Group going to do a four hour writing session on 8/18. Will start at noon Boston.
17:28:21 [kford]
Action: KF to mail list with details on writing session.
17:28:21 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-596 - Mail list with details on writing session. [on Kelly Ford - due 2011-08-11].
17:28:38 [kford]
Action: JS to set up meeting with W3C tools like zakim.
17:28:38 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-597 - Set up meeting with W3C tools like zakim. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-08-11].
17:29:01 [kford]
JA: Things we need to workk on are summary statements and finishing IERs.
17:29:09 [kford]
zakim, close item 1
17:29:09 [Zakim]
agendum 1, need 4 hour writing call - August, closed
17:29:10 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:29:11 [Zakim]
2. HTML5 bug review [from JAllan]
17:29:15 [kford]
zakim, take up item 2
17:29:15 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "HTML5 bug review" taken up [from JAllan]
17:30:14 [Greg]
The bugs I submitted, both mine on others assigned to me by the A11YTF, are at http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&email1=gcl-0039%40access-research.org&emailtype1=exact&emailassigned_to1=1&emailreporter1=1
17:31:39 [kford]
GL goes over bugs filed.
17:32:30 [kford]
GL: Several worked very hard for last several days due to the deadlines here.
17:34:40 [JAllan]
quick search in bug list shows 182 for a11y http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=a11y
17:35:54 [kford]
HTML 5 accessibility task force home page: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-task-force
17:36:15 [Greg]
The PF wiki page from which bugs were generated is at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Spec_Review/All. It *should* have all the things migrated from the UA wiki page.
17:36:37 [Greg]
That page includes links to the corresponding bugs in the HTML5 Bugzilla database.
17:37:20 [Greg]
Everything that does not have a bug number by it was rejected by the working group.
17:38:00 [kford]
Group going over experiences in HTML 5 bug filing and such.
17:43:04 [kford]
KP giving history of something called profnet at start of intenret.
17:46:04 [kford]
GL: Reminds people that W3C has funding for someone to work on accessibility.
17:46:57 [kford]
GL: Clarifies that this is on HTML 5 accessibility.
17:47:53 [Greg]
The position is described at http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Recruitment/#WAIengineer
17:48:06 [kford]
zakim, close item 2
17:48:06 [Zakim]
agendum 2, HTML5 bug review, closed
17:48:07 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:48:09 [Zakim]
3. duplicates? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0073.html [from JAllan]
17:49:45 [kford]
JA: JR found a list of duplicate issues.
17:50:01 [kford]
JA: Kim are you and Jeanne aware of these?
17:50:25 [kford]
KP: Let us look at this first.
17:50:37 [kford]
\Group goes over a few examples of dupes.
17:56:43 [Greg]
Even though the wording of the SC itself is ambiguous as to whether it's about perceivable vs. operable, the example given for 1.11.2 is clearly about perceivable, and there is no example for 2.5.2.
17:57:00 [Greg]
But the fact that the SC wording is ambiguous is a problem.
17:57:48 [Zakim]
-sharper
17:58:42 [kford]
zakim, agenda?
17:58:43 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
17:58:44 [Zakim]
3. duplicates? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0073.html [from JAllan]
17:58:46 [Zakim]
4. review comments - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JulSep/0010.html [from JAllan]
17:58:50 [Zakim]
5. survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/UAWGjuly22/ [from JAllan]
17:59:19 [JAllan]
action: to write in draft that 1.11.2 should stay, and 2.5.2 should be removed. they are duplicates. keep the ier for 1.11.2
17:59:19 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - to
17:59:33 [JAllan]
action: Jeanne to write in draft that 1.11.2 should stay, and 2.5.2 should be removed. they are duplicates. keep the ier for 1.11.2
17:59:33 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-598 - Write in draft that 1.11.2 should stay, and 2.5.2 should be removed. they are duplicates. keep the ier for 1.11.2 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-08-11].
17:59:57 [kford]
zakim, close item 3
17:59:57 [Zakim]
agendum 3, duplicates? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0073.html, closed
17:59:59 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:00:01 [Zakim]
4. review comments - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JulSep/0010.html [from JAllan]
18:00:12 [kford]
zakim, take up item 5
18:00:12 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "survey results http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/UAWGjuly22/" taken up [from JAllan]
18:02:06 [kford]
Group determined that 1.9.10 was merged.
18:03:38 [JAllan]
action: jeanne to remove 1.9.10, as it is a duplicate of 3.4.1 (see kim)
18:03:38 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-599 - Remove 1.9.10, as it is a duplicate of 3.4.1 (see kim) [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-08-11].
18:03:51 [kford]
Now looking at 1.9.11
18:04:05 [kford]
This one should also be deleted.
18:04:33 [JAllan]
action: Jeanne to delete 1.9.11 as it is a duplicate of 3.4.1
18:04:34 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-600 - Delete 1.9.11 as it is a duplicate of 3.4.1 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-08-11].
18:05:06 [kford]
Now looking at summary for GL 1.6
18:08:49 [Greg]
The use can specify specify speech rate and volume (1.6.1), pitch and pitch range (1.6.2), synthesizer speech characteristics like emphasis (1.6.3) and features like spelling (1.6.4).
18:09:31 [Greg]
The user can adjust speech rate and volume (1.6.1), pitch and pitch range (1.6.2), and synthesizer speech characteristics like emphasis (1.6.3) and features like spelling (1.6.4).
18:10:01 [Greg]
The user can specify speech rate and volume (1.6.1), pitch and pitch range (1.6.2), and synthesizer speech characteristics like emphasis (1.6.3) and features like spelling (1.6.4).
18:10:43 [kford]
Group likes result.
18:11:04 [JAllan]
action: jeanne to add "The user can specify speech rate and volume (1.6.1), pitch and pitch range (1.6.2), and synthesizer speech characteristics like emphasis (1.6.3) and features like spelling (1.6.4)." as summary for GL1.6
18:11:04 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-601 - Add "The user can specify speech rate and volume (1.6.1), pitch and pitch range (1.6.2), and synthesizer speech characteristics like emphasis (1.6.3) and features like spelling (1.6.4)." as summary for GL1.6 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-08-11].
18:11:21 [kford]
Now looking at summary for 1.7.
18:11:28 [Greg]
First draft: "The user can choose which if any author-supplied (1.7.1) and user-supplied (1.7.2) style sheets to use."
18:14:19 [JAllan]
gl brings up, what if UA only allows user style per page
18:14:30 [JAllan]
ja: current UA make it global.
18:14:36 [Greg]
I think we should be explicit that the user should be able to select any number of author- or user-provided style sheets to be applied to the current page, all pages on the current site, or all pages viewed in the browser.
18:15:01 [Greg]
That is, yes, I'm suggesting we need to change the SC.
18:16:04 [Greg]
That last part should say "or all pages viewed in the browser using this configuration".
18:16:29 [Greg]
(Many browsers of course let the user switch between profiles.)
18:16:33 [JAllan]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20110719/#gl-style-sheets-config
18:19:16 [JAllan]
discussion of Customize your Web https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/customize-your-web/
18:20:07 [JAllan]
and greasemonkey https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/greasemonkey/
18:26:52 [Greg]
OK, here's a stab but not quite ready yet:
18:26:53 [Greg]
1.7.1 Author Style Sheets: For every author style sheet defined, the user can choose whether or not it should be applied to (a) the current page, or (c) all pages for which it is defined
18:26:55 [Greg]
1.7.2 User Style Sheets: For every user style sheet defined, the user can choose whether or not it should be applied to (a) the current page, or (b) all pages on the current web site, or (c) all pages.
18:27:56 [Greg]
The one thing missing is, should we address whether it needs to be applied before or after other style sheets. That is, should the user style sheet take precedence over author style sheets, even if it doesn't use !important keyword?
18:28:34 [Greg]
That is, where in the cascade should author or user style sheets be applied when they are not referenced in the page?
18:28:45 [Greg]
Kim asks, should that also be user customizable?
18:30:19 [JAllan]
also add Stylish for firefox https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/stylish/ and Chrome https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/fjnbnpbmkenffdnngjfgmeleoegfcffe
18:31:23 [Greg]
We could make it customizable, but do any user agents support it?
18:34:59 [Greg]
Jim notes it needs the ability to more explicitly turn off all author and/or user style sheets globally.
18:35:40 [Greg]
1.7.1 Author Style Sheets: For every author style sheet defined, the user can choose whether or not it should be applied to (a) the current page, or (b) all pages for which it is defined, or (c) turn off all author style sheets.
18:37:25 [Greg]
1.7.1 Author Style Sheets: The user can turn off the use of author style sheets, and for every author style sheet defined the user can choose whether or not it should be applied to (a) the current page, or (b) all pages for which it is defined.
18:39:32 [Greg]
1.7.2 User Style Sheets: The user can turn off the use of user style sheets, and for every user style sheet defined the user can choose whether or not it should be applied to (a) the current page, or (b) all pages on the current web site, or (c) all pages.
18:41:24 [JAllan]
action: jeanne to add "The user can choose which if any author-supplied (1.7.1) and user-supplied (1.7.2) style sheets to use." as summary for GL 1.7
18:41:24 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-602 - Add "The user can choose which if any author-supplied (1.7.1) and user-supplied (1.7.2) style sheets to use." as summary for GL 1.7 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-08-11].
18:42:58 [Zakim]
-kford
18:45:34 [Zakim]
-KimPatch
18:45:35 [Zakim]
-Greg
18:45:37 [Zakim]
-Jim_Allan
18:45:38 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
18:45:40 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jim_Allan, Greg, sharper, KimPatch, kford
18:47:38 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:47:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/04-ua-minutes.html JAllan
18:48:20 [JAllan]
rrsagent, please part
18:48:20 [RRSAgent]
I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/04-ua-actions.rdf :
18:48:20 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: KF to mail list with details on writing session. [1]
18:48:20 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/04-ua-irc#T17-28-21
18:48:20 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to set up meeting with W3C tools like zakim. [2]
18:48:20 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/04-ua-irc#T17-28-38
18:48:20 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: to write in draft that 1.11.2 should stay, and 2.5.2 should be removed. they are duplicates. keep the ier for 1.11.2 [3]
18:48:20 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/04-ua-irc#T17-59-19
18:48:20 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jeanne to write in draft that 1.11.2 should stay, and 2.5.2 should be removed. they are duplicates. keep the ier for 1.11.2 [4]
18:48:20 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/04-ua-irc#T17-59-33
18:48:20 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to remove 1.9.10, as it is a duplicate of 3.4.1 (see kim) [5]
18:48:20 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/04-ua-irc#T18-03-38
18:48:20 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jeanne to delete 1.9.11 as it is a duplicate of 3.4.1 [6]
18:48:20 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/04-ua-irc#T18-04-33
18:48:20 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to add "The user can specify speech rate and volume (1.6.1), pitch and pitch range (1.6.2), and synthesizer speech characteristics like emphasis (1.6.3) and features like spelling (1.6.4)." as summary for GL1.6 [7]
18:48:20 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/04-ua-irc#T18-11-04
18:48:20 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to add "The user can choose which if any author-supplied (1.7.1) and user-supplied (1.7.2) style sheets to use." as summary for GL 1.7 [8]
18:48:20 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/04-ua-irc#T18-41-24