13:55:34 RRSAgent has joined #webtv 13:55:34 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-webtv-irc 13:55:36 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:55:38 Zakim, this will be 13:55:38 I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 13:55:39 Meeting: Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference 13:55:39 Date: 02 August 2011 13:55:56 Meeting: Home Networking Task Force Teleconference 13:56:04 s/Meeting: Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference/ 13:56:09 Chair: Giuseppe 13:56:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-webtv-minutes.html kaz 13:56:29 UW_WebTVIG(Home Net)10:00AM has now started 13:56:35 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2011Aug/0010.html 13:56:36 +??P6 13:56:43 zakim, call kazuyuki-617 13:56:43 ok, kaz; the call is being made 13:56:45 +Kazuyuki 13:57:46 +Bjorn_Bringert 13:57:49 zakim, +??P6 is giuseppe 13:57:49 sorry, giuseppe, I do not recognize a party named '+??P6' 13:58:07 +??P9 13:58:17 zakim, ??P9 is Matt 13:58:17 +Matt; got it 13:58:24 zakim, ??P6 is giuseppe 13:58:24 +giuseppe; got it 13:58:30 zakim, who is here? 13:58:30 On the phone I see giuseppe, Kazuyuki, Bjorn_Bringert, Matt 13:58:31 On IRC I see RRSAgent, MattH, rberkoff, giuseppe, Zakim, kaz, francois, trackbot 13:58:36 zakim, ??P9 is MattH 13:58:36 I already had ??P9 as Matt, MattH 13:58:42 zakim, Bjorn_Bringert is Russell_Berkoff 13:58:42 +Russell_Berkoff; got it 13:59:14 zakim, Matt is MattH 13:59:14 +MattH; got it 14:00:03 +francois 14:00:06 zakim, mute me 14:00:07 francois should now be muted 14:00:14 ack me 14:00:57 aizu has joined #webtv 14:02:02 igarashi has joined #webtv 14:02:14 zakim, mute me 14:02:16 + +1.215.286.aaaa 14:02:18 francois should now be muted 14:02:45 zakim, aaaa is David_Mays 14:02:45 +David_Mays; got it 14:02:47 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/products/2 14:02:47 davidmays has joined #webtv 14:03:06 zakim, who is here 14:03:06 davidmays, you need to end that query with '?' 14:03:11 zakim, who is here? 14:03:13 On the phone I see giuseppe, Kazuyuki, Russell_Berkoff, MattH, francois (muted), David_Mays 14:03:15 On IRC I see davidmays, igarashi, aizu, RRSAgent, MattH, rberkoff, giuseppe, Zakim, kaz, francois, trackbot 14:03:33 ISSUE-20? 14:03:33 ISSUE-20 -- TV Querying and Control -- open 14:03:33 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/20 14:03:39 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/TVControl 14:03:44 scribe: francois: 14:03:56 scribe: francois 14:03:58 Topic: TV Querying and Control 14:04:12 matt: re-write proposal to better explain what could be standardized. 14:04:24 +??P46 14:04:32 zakim, ??P46 14:04:37 Zakim, ??P46 is me 14:04:38 I don't understand '??P46', kaz 14:04:40 zakim, ??P46 is aizu 14:04:44 ... The processing engine could be incorporated or not. 14:04:46 +aizu; got it 14:04:50 I already had ??P46 as aizu, kaz 14:05:00 ... There were some questions I hope I've addressed. 14:05:02 -Russell_Berkoff 14:05:05 +??P44 14:05:13 giuseppe: comments on this? 14:05:35 zakim, ??P44 is Clarke_Stevens 14:05:35 +Clarke_Stevens; got it 14:05:52 +??P7 14:05:56 s/scribe: francois:// 14:06:05 +Russell_Berkoff 14:06:18 zakim, who is here? 14:06:18 On the phone I see giuseppe, Kazuyuki, MattH, francois (muted), David_Mays, aizu, Clarke_Stevens, ??P7, Russell_Berkoff 14:06:19 On IRC I see davidmays, igarashi, aizu, RRSAgent, MattH, rberkoff, giuseppe, Zakim, kaz, francois, trackbot 14:06:38 giuseppe: I don't have specific comments. I see different challenges. One thing I noticed is that it does not follow the same approach as other things we've discussed. 14:06:44 ... Not a generic approach. 14:07:31 zakim, ??P7 is igarashi 14:07:31 +igarashi; got it 14:07:47 ... On the use case, no problem it's fine. 14:07:56 ... Any other comment, or can we conclude it's approved? 14:08:00 mav has joined #webtv 14:08:08 proposed RESOLUTION: approve ISSUE-20 14:08:19 RESOLUTION: approve ISSUE-20, TV Querying and Control 14:08:27 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/TimeSynchronisation 14:08:28 ACTION: giuseppe to integrate ISSUE-20 in requirements spec 14:08:29 Created ACTION-58 - Integrate ISSUE-20 in requirements spec [on Giuseppe Pascale - due 2011-08-09]. 14:08:43 Topic: Time Synchronization (ISSUE-21) 14:08:51 + +1.650.483.aabb 14:08:59 matt: Same here, re-wrote to better explain what's up for standardization. 14:09:06 zakim, aabb is mav 14:09:06 +mav; got it 14:09:47 ... Regarding the time sync use case, the idea is to make it possible to be able to sync the content of their own app with the content played on the TV set. 14:10:04 ... I believe we briefly described the prototype during the Berlin Workshop. 14:10:25 present: giuseppe, Kazuyuki, MattH, francois, David_Mays, aizu, Clarke_Stevens, igarashi, Russell_Berkoff, mav 14:10:29 ... Re-focusing is to highlight the fact that it's useful for an app to have a simple and clear API to access this type of information. 14:10:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-webtv-minutes.html kaz 14:11:18 ... It would be useful to have a high-level API that can enable these kind of applications and that abstract away the possible inconsistencies. 14:12:02 Russell: I object, the existing discovery protocol address these issues, so I believe it's out of scope. 14:12:37 matt: I was referring to the previous situation. In the new version, I refer to existing protocols that can be appropriate, so you're right. 14:12:44 Russell: ok. 14:12:53 giuseppe: comments on the content of the issue? 14:13:05 ... then we can approve this as well 14:13:27 RESOLUTION: Approve ISSUE-21, Time synchronization 14:13:38 ACTION: giuseppe to integrate ISSUE-21 in requirements spec 14:13:38 Created ACTION-59 - Integrate ISSUE-21 in requirements spec [on Giuseppe Pascale - due 2011-08-09]. 14:14:14 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/LipSyncTimeSynchronisation 14:14:22 giuseppe: for some of these use cases, there could be an entity on the network that provides the service, so not necessarily a local API 14:14:24 ISSUE-22? 14:14:24 ISSUE-22 -- Lip-sync Accuracy Time Synchronisation -- open 14:14:24 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/22 14:14:43 Topic: Lip-Sync Accuracy Time Synchronisation (ISSUE-22) 14:15:05 matt: related but with emphasis on needs for precise timing information, e.g. lip sync. 14:15:38 ... The description here makes explicit the need to expose the accuracy that is available so that an app can determine whether it can do its stuff. 14:15:58 giuseppe: thanks, any comment on this? 14:16:24 q? 14:16:32 q+ 14:16:41 ... OK, let's close this as well 14:16:44 ack kaz 14:17:15 Clarke has joined #webtv 14:17:21 kaz: Matt, are you interested in not only lip-sync but also 3D, or animation, audio frame, or other multiple modalities? 14:17:56 matt: I think these should be valid. We were more interested in audio at BBC, but I can see other purpose requiring accurate timing sync for other modality, yes. 14:18:11 RESOLUTION: Approve ISSUE-22, Lip-sync Accuracy Time Synchronisation 14:18:28 ACTION: Giuseppe to integrate ISSUE-22 in requirements spec. 14:18:28 Created ACTION-60 - Integrate ISSUE-22 in requirements spec. [on Giuseppe Pascale - due 2011-08-09]. 14:19:01 Topic: UPnP/DLNA ecosystem support 14:19:01 ISSUE-23? 14:19:01 ISSUE-23 -- UPnP/DLNA ecosystem support -- open 14:19:01 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/23 14:19:27 Russell: Issue-23 is a use case to support the UPnP/DLNA ecosystem devices as-is within an application. 14:20:13 ... There are a large number of currently deployed UPnP/DLNA devices, and having W3C user agents be able to support those devices would be beneficial for both orgs as well as for users. 14:20:54 giuseppe: you didn't write any use case, right? 14:21:01 russell: right. 14:21:15 ... It's just to generate a requirement. 14:21:41 q? 14:21:52 ... There are specific use cases which are written later on, but this is a specific use case to require UPnP/DLNA support. 14:22:11 Giuseppe: no comment. Any comment? 14:22:48 Russell: I think there should be a requirement that maps to this issue. 14:22:53 q+ to ask what rberkoff means by "W3C User -Agents" (maybe HTML-based Web browsers?) 14:23:06 Giuseppe: OK, I can find a way to integrate that in requirements spec. 14:23:12 q? 14:23:35 RESOLUTION: Approve ISSUE-23, UPnP/DLNA ecosystem support 14:23:48 ACTION: giuseppe to integrate ISSUE-23 in requirements spec. 14:23:48 Created ACTION-61 - Integrate ISSUE-23 in requirements spec. [on Giuseppe Pascale - due 2011-08-09]. 14:25:19 Russell: question is whether it's enough to support various protocols, or whether we need to dig up in types of services exposed and expose e.g. media servers. 14:26:16 ... [Going through requirements]. Requirement to list content that matches precise criteria on a media server for instance. Playback operation. 14:26:47 q? 14:26:47 ... View EPG data which may represent current content, also tune and play live content, and then select and play recorded content. 14:27:21 i/Russell:/Topic: Home Network Enabled User-Agent - Network Media Player (ISSUE-26) 14:27:38 kaz: my comment was on ISSUE-23. Clarify what you mean by W3C user agents? 14:27:58 Russell: there are conceivably user agents that may not be browsers but something else. 14:28:19 kaz: In that case, W3C specification compliant user agents. W3C does not produce user agents 14:28:24 Russell: yes. 14:28:44 Giuseppe: back to ISSUE-26, any comment? 14:29:01 ... I don't think the use case is controversial. 14:29:11 ... No problem with the use case itself. 14:29:35 ... One problem I have with these use cases is that they all look different. 14:29:45 ... We might want to re-write them for more consistency. 14:29:56 Russell: I'm certainly willing to help. 14:30:13 ... I tried to make the use cases and requirements consistent. 14:30:17 Giuseppe: ok. 14:30:50 RESOLUTION: Approve ISSUE-26, Home Network Enabled User-Agent - Network Media Player 14:31:03 ACTION: Giuseppe to integrate ISSUE-26 in requirements spec 14:31:03 Created ACTION-62 - Integrate ISSUE-26 in requirements spec [on Giuseppe Pascale - due 2011-08-09]. 14:31:32 Topic: Home Network Enabled User-Agent - Network Media Server (ISSUE-27) 14:31:46 Russell: companion use case to previous one, to be able to serve content. 14:31:57 ... Media server not necessarily local, could be in the cloud. 14:32:27 Giuseppe: there's a specific reference to DLNA in things to standardize. 14:33:05 Russell: I was just trying to clarify what the term Home Network Media Transport Requirements might entail. 14:33:22 ... May I just change "mainly" into "possibly"? 14:33:34 ... It was really just meant as a clarification. 14:33:42 ... I'll go through the use case and take that out. 14:33:46 Giuseppe: ok, fine. 14:34:30 RESOLUTION: Approve ISSUE-27, Home Network Enabled User-Agent - Network Media Server 14:34:37 ACTION: Giuseppe to integrate ISSUE-27 in requirements spec 14:34:37 Created ACTION-63 - Integrate ISSUE-27 in requirements spec [on Giuseppe Pascale - due 2011-08-09]. 14:34:40 q? 14:34:48 q- 14:34:58 Topic: Home Network Enabled User-Agent - Network Media Controller (ISSUE-28) 14:35:18 Russell: provides more details about what needs to be controlled on media that provides rendering. 14:35:41 ... including closed captioning, camera angles, etc. 14:36:01 Giuseppe: same as for ISSUE-27, DLNA mention remains. 14:36:12 q? 14:36:18 Russell: Yes, I'll go through all of these issues and adjust the wording. 14:36:38 Giuseppe: ok, also approved, then. 14:36:48 RESOLUTION: Approve ISSUE-28, Home Network Enabled User-Agent - Network Media Controller 14:36:52 ACTION: Giuseppe to integrate ISSUE-28 in requirements spec 14:36:52 Created ACTION-64 - Integrate ISSUE-28 in requirements spec [on Giuseppe Pascale - due 2011-08-09]. 14:37:12 Topic: Home Network Enabled User-Agent - Network Record Controller (ISSUE-29) 14:37:47 Russell: different scenarios on controlling recorder, listed on the page. 14:37:55 Giuseppe: Comments? 14:37:59 ... Approved. 14:38:12 RESOLUTION: Approve ISSUE-29, Home Network Enabled User-Agent - Network Record Controller 14:38:16 ACTION: Giuseppe to integrate ISSUE-29 in requirements spec 14:38:16 Created ACTION-65 - Integrate ISSUE-29 in requirements spec [on Giuseppe Pascale - due 2011-08-09]. 14:38:32 Topic: Home Network Enabled User-Agent - Network Device Controller (ISSUE-30) 14:39:20 Russell: Control of a device, which we don't know anything about. There might be provisioning, e.g. home network management services while upgrading firmware. There's a whole slew of device types on top of media related services. 14:39:29 ... This is a use case to control all sorts of devices. 14:39:55 Giuseppe: given that this is generic, and that we already have approved generic use cases, does that add something? 14:40:19 Russell: we do have Igarashi-san application use cases. But this is more control of non media devices on the home network. 14:40:27 ... Usage will become increasibly important. 14:41:06 Giuseppe: Yes, but requirements already covered by other issue, I think. 14:41:24 ... High-level versus low-level. 14:41:35 ISSUE-14? 14:41:35 ISSUE-14 -- Document Discovering a Service -- closed 14:41:35 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/14 14:41:48 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Requirements#U7._Application_Discovering_a_Service 14:41:55 Giuseppe: The requirements doc is already updated to cover this. 14:42:19 Russell: I might suggest that this gets merged with issue-14, provided there are no new requirements. 14:42:47 ... One question that I have in mind. Is a device or service in these use cases the same as the device in the use case I'm providing? 14:43:25 ... I think Jean-Claude mentioned the definition of a device as a list of services. 14:44:00 ... I'm a little concerned about the definition section in the requirements doc. 14:44:06 Giuseppe: it's for the scope of the document. 14:44:20 Russell: I think we'll have to discuss devices vs. services 14:44:58 Giuseppe: could you provide text for the requirements document? 14:45:00 ack me 14:45:26 ACTION: Russell to see if ISSUE-14 and ISSUE-30 can be merged 14:45:26 Created ACTION-66 - See if ISSUE-14 and ISSUE-30 can be merged [on Russell Berkoff - due 2011-08-09]. 14:45:35 zakim, mute me 14:45:35 francois should now be muted 14:46:19 Topic: Next steps 14:46:30 giuseppe: it would be nice to finish the document by the end of the month. 14:46:55 ... I'll update it so that we can review it next time and approve it. 14:47:47 ... The idea would be to publish the requirements document, and then to add some section in the IG report about our findings. 14:48:42 ... What should we do with CableLabs draft proposal? 14:49:09 ... We need to know what we're going to do with other documents such as implementation alternatives. 14:49:30 Clarke: hard to understand you right now, let's do a phone call and come up with a plan or something. 14:50:15 Topic: CableLabs Simplified Home Networking API Proposal 14:50:30 Giuseppe: question, Clarke, is what should the group do with this? 14:50:43 Clarke: I'd like people to comment on it, see if it meets requirements. 14:50:48 -> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/RevisedAPI Wiki 14:50:51 issue-38? 14:50:51 ISSUE-38 -- CableLabs Simplified Home Networking API Proposal -- open 14:50:51 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/38 14:50:59 ... Then look at this proposal and the one from Opera, see if they can be aligned. 14:51:11 s/... Then/Clarke: Then/ 14:51:17 ... I'm working on an update to that document, which I can publish in the next couple of days. 14:51:47 Giuseppe: [chunked], include in the report? 14:52:17 Clarke: yes, I'd like to resolve as many obvious divergences as possible and then include in the report. 14:53:21 Russell: I'm not necessarily favoring an API the way you propose [scribe missed precise concern] 14:54:25 Clarke: when something is discovered, it calls a callback. I found it useful to combine things, but you could have your user agent to do otherwise. The basic idea of having discovery "routines" that calls a callback is pretty generic and doesn't predict any specific implementation. 14:54:30 ... The same goes for request. 14:54:43 ... If you want one callback for zeroconf, one for DLNA, etc. that's fine. 14:55:00 q+ to ask igarashi as well about his opinon, because he also mentioned Sony has similar idea to Opera 14:55:10 Russell: something like REST call, does that require a callback? 14:55:48 Clarke: what happens is that you send a message, and when you get a response, which is asynchronous, the callback gets called. A single routine could handle all your REST responses, or different routines could be used. 14:55:59 ... Still, you send a request, then get a response. 14:56:41 Russell: I might suggest that you write this in "here's the usage scenario" instead of providing an IDL, not very consistent with the way we've approaches other use cases. 14:56:52 Giuseppe: The goal is more to capture how this could be implemented. 14:57:28 ... It is not to become the specification, it's merely meant to suggest how an API could be defined. 14:58:47 Russell: I suspect there is a use case knocking around in this document. I would encourage the writing of a use case based on this document. One concern is what happens to one device discovered with different methods? Is there a way to say that this is the same? 14:58:59 ... I think it raises some interesting questions. 14:59:34 Clarke: It's one way to implement the requirements triggered by the other use cases. It's certainly not the only one. 15:00:07 ... I'm uncertain how this should be communicated to any working group that addresses these requirements. 15:00:51 Giuseppe: my view on this is that we need to make sure the discussions are reflected on this document, then we can decide to publish it along with the requirements document to the intention of a working group. 15:01:13 ... If it's already covered by another document, e.g. by Opera's proposal, then maybe we can drop it. 15:01:26 ... We need to have opinions on this. 15:01:59 ... The same applies to the Security document, actually. 15:02:17 -mav 15:02:18 Clarke: I'll try to write something that tries to align CableLabs and Opera's proposals. 15:02:23 -David_Mays 15:02:26 davidmays has left #webtv 15:02:27 Giuseppe: ok, running out of time, here. 15:02:52 q- 15:02:59 -Clarke_Stevens 15:03:01 [call adjourned] 15:03:02 -aizu 15:03:03 -Russell_Berkoff 15:03:05 -MattH 15:03:06 -giuseppe 15:03:06 -francois 15:03:13 -Kazuyuki 15:03:17 I hope you could hear what I was saying.... 15:04:05 I was using skype, next time I'll use the phone 15:04:53 yep 15:05:05 well review before and approve during 15:08:14 disconnecting the lone participant, igarashi, in UW_WebTVIG(Home Net)10:00AM 15:08:16 UW_WebTVIG(Home Net)10:00AM has ended 15:08:19 Attendees were Kazuyuki, giuseppe, Russell_Berkoff, MattH, francois, +1.215.286.aaaa, David_Mays, aizu, Clarke_Stevens, igarashi, +1.650.483.aabb, mav 15:08:35 francois, thanks or scribing 15:11:44 s/we can review it next time and approve it./we can review it before the f2f meeting and approve it during the meeting./ 15:11:50 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:11:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-webtv-minutes.html kaz 15:11:53 MattH has left #webtv 15:22:28 kaz do you want me to reply to the TTA guy or are you going to do it? 16:22:25 giuseppe has joined #webtv 16:31:48 RRSAGent, bye 16:31:48 I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-webtv-actions.rdf : 16:31:48 ACTION: giuseppe to integrate ISSUE-20 in requirements spec [1] 16:31:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-webtv-irc#T14-08-28 16:31:48 ACTION: giuseppe to integrate ISSUE-21 in requirements spec [2] 16:31:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-webtv-irc#T14-13-38 16:31:48 ACTION: Giuseppe to integrate ISSUE-22 in requirements spec. [3] 16:31:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-webtv-irc#T14-18-28 16:31:48 ACTION: giuseppe to integrate ISSUE-23 in requirements spec. [4] 16:31:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-webtv-irc#T14-23-48 16:31:48 ACTION: Giuseppe to integrate ISSUE-26 in requirements spec [5] 16:31:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-webtv-irc#T14-31-03 16:31:48 ACTION: Giuseppe to integrate ISSUE-27 in requirements spec [6] 16:31:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-webtv-irc#T14-34-37 16:31:48 ACTION: Giuseppe to integrate ISSUE-28 in requirements spec [7] 16:31:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-webtv-irc#T14-36-52 16:31:48 ACTION: Giuseppe to integrate ISSUE-29 in requirements spec [8] 16:31:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-webtv-irc#T14-38-16 16:31:48 ACTION: Russell to see if ISSUE-14 and ISSUE-30 can be merged [9] 16:31:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/02-webtv-irc#T14-45-26 16:31:50 zakim, bye 16:31:50 Zakim has left #webtv