IRC log of sparql on 2011-08-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:48 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:59:48 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:59:50 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:59:53 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #sparql
13:59:55 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 77277
13:59:55 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:59:56 [LeeF]
zakim, this will be SPARQL
13:59:56 [Zakim]
ok, LeeF, I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM already started
13:59:56 [trackbot]
Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:59:59 [trackbot]
Date: 02 August 2011
13:59:59 [LeeF]
Chair: LeeF
14:00:00 [Zakim]
14:00:03 [LeeF]
Scribe: pgearon
14:00:06 [LeeF]
Scribenick: pgearon
14:00:11 [bglimm]
Zakim, passcode?
14:00:18 [Zakim]
the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, bglimm
14:00:26 [Zakim]
14:00:32 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P16 is me
14:00:41 [cbuilara]
cbuilara has joined #sparql
14:00:50 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:01:15 [Zakim]
14:01:18 [Zakim]
14:01:20 [cbuilara]
zakim, ??P11 is me
14:01:42 [Zakim]
14:01:44 [Zakim]
+cbuilara; got it
14:01:56 [Zakim]
14:02:02 [Zakim]
14:02:19 [bglimm]
Zakim, mute me
14:02:20 [Zakim]
sorry, bglimm, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:02:26 [LeeF]
zakim, ??P22 is bglimm
14:02:26 [Zakim]
+bglimm; got it
14:02:34 [bglimm]
Zakim, mute me
14:02:34 [Zakim]
bglimm should now be muted
14:02:39 [LeeF]
zakim, who's on the phone?
14:02:39 [Zakim]
On the phone I see kasei, AndyS, cbuilara, MattPerry, bglimm (muted), LeeF, pgearon
14:02:54 [LeeF]
14:03:02 [Zakim]
14:03:17 [LeeF]
Regrets: OlivierCorby, chimezie, AxelPolleres
14:03:26 [alex]
alex has joined #sparql
14:03:29 [SteveH__]
SteveH__ has joined #sparql
14:03:37 [SteveH__]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:03:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see kasei, AndyS, cbuilara, MattPerry, bglimm (muted), LeeF, pgearon, ??P36
14:03:53 [SteveH__]
Zakim, P36 is me
14:03:58 [Zakim]
sorry, SteveH__, I do not recognize a party named 'P36'
14:04:02 [Zakim]
14:04:04 [SteveH__]
Zakim, ??P36 is me
14:04:08 [Zakim]
+SteveH__; got it
14:04:08 [alex]
/nick alexpassant
14:04:15 [LeeF]
topic: Admin
14:04:21 [LeeF]
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at
14:04:29 [SteveH]
Zakim, SteveH is me
14:04:34 [Zakim]
+SteveH; got it
14:04:35 [SteveH]
Zakim, SteveH__ is me
14:04:44 [Zakim]
sorry, SteveH, I do not recognize a party named 'SteveH__'
14:05:16 [pgearon]
LeeF: Major resolutions were to publish 2 working drafts
14:05:28 [LeeF]
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at
14:05:50 [bglimm]
14:05:55 [bglimm]
Zakim, unmute me
14:05:55 [Zakim]
bglimm should no longer be muted
14:05:59 [LeeF]
Next regular meeting: 2011-08-09 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Birte )
14:06:03 [bglimm]
Zakim, mute me
14:06:03 [Zakim]
bglimm should now be muted
14:06:07 [pgearon]
LeeF: bglimm scribenick for next week
14:06:38 [LeeF]
Regrets: Sandro, NickH
14:06:48 [LeeF]
Regrets: Sandro, NickH, Paul
14:07:05 [LeeF]
subtopic: RDF WG liason
14:07:27 [pgearon]
LeeF: last week discussed official liaison with RDF working group
14:08:19 [AndyS]
I'll do it
14:08:29 [pgearon]
LeeF: allows us to update notices on how RDF 1.1 affects SPARQL 1.1
14:08:48 [LeeF]
topic: publications
14:08:51 [AndyS]
(don't let it stop anyone else)
14:09:20 [pgearon]
LeeF: short name approved for CSVTSV document
14:09:33 [pgearon]
LeeF: non boilerplate paragraph into the status section
14:10:06 [pgearon]
AndyS: what does the boilerplate need to say?
14:10:38 [pgearon]
LeeF: this publication describes how to serialize SPARQL results in comma separated/tab separated formats
14:11:14 [pgearon]
AndyS: I'll do it
14:11:41 [pgearon]
LeeF: go ahead to publish, Axel and I ought to be able to push that forward
14:11:45 [LeeF]
close ACTION-499
14:11:45 [trackbot]
ACTION-499 Inquire at W3C team on next possible pub date. closed
14:11:55 [AndyS]
AndyS: Also did some editorial foo, no design change (its WD so I just did them).
14:12:29 [AndyS]
ACTION AndyS to draft text for CSV/TSV status para
14:12:29 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-507 - Draft text for CSV/TSV status para [on Andy Seaborne - due 2011-08-09].
14:12:34 [LeeF]
ACTION: Lee to work with editors & team (Ivan) to publish CSV/TSV and JSON results
14:12:34 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-508 - Work with editors & team (Ivan) to publish CSV/TSV and JSON results [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-08-09].
14:12:40 [pgearon]
LeeF: next few weeks will have Sandro at home, so Ivan will be a contact until at least late August
14:12:43 [LeeF]
topic: federated query
14:13:01 [pgearon]
LeeF: hoping to resolve to publish federated query today
14:13:31 [pgearon]
LeeF: back and forth on the mailing list, so not sure if we're at the point of LC
14:14:09 [pgearon]
AndyS: one open thing is 3rd example needs bindings clause added
14:14:24 [pgearon]
AndyS: 3rd example in 2.4
14:15:13 [AndyS]
{ ?s a foaf:Person } ==> { ?s a foaf:Person } BINDINGS (?s) { (:a) (:b) (:c) }
14:15:14 [pgearon]
Carlos: applied what Andy said, but yet to apply comments from Greg
14:16:10 [AndyS]
Currently, the 3rd q example has not BINDINGS clause (current CVS version)
14:16:32 [pgearon]
kasei: a few things to consider, but haven't had a chance to look over the latest version, will do so soon
14:16:46 [LeeF]
ACTION: Greg to review latest federated query document for Last Call readiness
14:16:46 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-509 - Review latest federated query document for Last Call readiness [on Gregory Williams - due 2011-08-09].
14:17:41 [LeeF]
topic: other documents readiness
14:18:05 [pgearon]
LeeF: small amount of progress on overview doc from Axel and protocol document from LeeF
14:18:45 [pgearon]
LeeF: main thing left for protocol doc is update examples
14:19:06 [pgearon]
LeeF: also security and conformance bits to be cleaned up, plus references added
14:19:26 [pgearon]
LeeF: Axel made some progress on overview document, but not sure what he's done
14:19:48 [pgearon]
LeeF: not yet updates RDF 1.1 and SPARQL 1.1 wiki pages for result formats
14:20:36 [pgearon]
LeeF: if AndyS wants to review, then that would be great
14:20:45 [pgearon]
AndyS: no promises, but will see if I can
14:21:27 [pgearon]
LeeF: want to talk at some point about CSV/TSV document. Maybe should leave to next week
14:21:30 [LeeF]
topic: Comments
14:21:40 [LeeF]
14:21:55 [pgearon]
LeeF: thank you AndyS for doing my least favorite thing in the world and updating this page
14:22:18 [pgearon]
LeeF: go through the ones that are open, sorted by status....
14:22:23 [ericP]
any known outstanding issues on federated query?
14:22:46 [LeeF]
14:22:46 [ericP]
(and i mean really outstanding, not just pretty good)
14:23:19 [pgearon]
LeeF: first comment from Jeen about built in functions that are approved
14:23:34 [SteveH]
I think Jeen has a point about string functions
14:23:38 [SteveH]
it's a little arbitrary
14:24:40 [pgearon]
LeeF: do you want to discuss?
14:25:34 [pgearon]
SteveH: thinks Jeen is right, but it's not worth another last call
14:25:51 [pgearon]
AndyS: Jeen is half right, but he's missed one thing though
14:25:55 [AndyS]
14:26:08 [pgearon]
SteveH: Bryan Thompson comment a question rather than a comment
14:26:52 [pgearon]
LeeF: Bryan is from BigData
14:27:00 [pgearon]
AndyS: yes, and they use Sesame
14:27:19 [pgearon]
LeeF: Andy, you think Bryan's conclusion is correct or not correct?
14:27:35 [pgearon]
AndyS: it's an error, yes. It doesn't show up in results because error is unbound
14:27:43 [pgearon]
LeeF: so group still appears?
14:27:46 [pgearon]
AndyS: yes
14:28:05 [pgearon]
AndyS: can't compare an error with unbound
14:28:39 [pgearon]
AndyS: still have an error in test suite for errors and aggregates
14:29:03 [pgearon]
AndyS: an action on SteveH for this
14:29:06 [bglimm]
Zakim, unmute me
14:29:06 [Zakim]
bglimm should no longer be muted
14:29:19 [AndyS]
AndyS: SUM(?p) -> error ==> FILTER is error -> skipped.
14:29:37 [AndyS]
s/AndyS: an action on SteveH for this/LeeF: an action on SteveH for this/ :-)
14:30:05 [bglimm]
Zakim, mute me
14:30:05 [Zakim]
bglimm should now be muted
14:30:07 [pgearon]
LeeF: assign MS-7 to bglimm
14:30:41 [pgearon]
kasei: started addressing points to DB-6 in link on wiki
14:30:51 [pgearon]
kasei: would appreciate feedback on draft
14:31:18 [LeeF]
ACTION: Lee to look at
14:31:18 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-510 - Look at [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-08-09].
14:31:19 [pgearon]
kasei: a lot of what I have is a set of notes to be filled in, rather than an actual response
14:32:01 [pgearon]
kasei: biggest changes that could come from this could be renaming of properties
14:32:14 [pgearon]
LeeF: renaming like this would be a substantive change
14:32:32 [LeeF]
14:32:47 [alex]
alex has joined #sparql
14:33:22 [pgearon]
pgearon: will work on it this week, but won't be doing anything for the coming week due to vacation
14:33:47 [pgearon]
LeeF: reminds AndyS that he has a pending comment from David DB-4
14:34:32 [pgearon]
LeeF: wiki weirdness with SA-1
14:34:50 [pgearon]
LeeF: looking at SC-3 first
14:35:15 [pgearon]
LeeF: got acknowledgement that he's not thrilled, but won't object to the design
14:35:48 [pgearon]
LeeF: SA-1 is a comment about performance problem with XSL style sheet incorporated into result format
14:36:34 [pgearon]
LeeF: 2 options. Incorporate Stephen's patch and update, or say, thanks but not going to touch this right now
14:36:46 [pgearon]
LeeF: anyone interested in verifying the patch?
14:37:11 [pgearon]
AndyS: heard about patch before. Believe it makes a difference, with some caveats that my knowledge of XSLT is limitted
14:37:38 [pgearon]
LeeF: don't want to go through a bunch of process for this
14:37:53 [LeeF]
ACTION: Lee to ask team (Ivan) about whether the patch in can be applied without any W3C process
14:37:53 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-511 - Ask team (Ivan) about whether the patch in can be applied without any W3C process [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-08-09].
14:38:49 [pgearon]
LeeF: NL-1 about limitations of CONSTRUCT WHERE, I'll be taking care of this comment
14:39:03 [pgearon]
LeeF: JB-6 Jeen's comment on aggregates
14:39:26 [pgearon]
SteveH: don't think draft has been sent, looking
14:39:30 [LeeF]
14:39:36 [LeeF]
14:39:50 [pgearon]
LeeF: SteveH has a full response
14:40:11 [AndyS]
"We will add" => is this recorded anywhere?
14:40:54 [pgearon]
SteveH: recalls had 1 response and said I'd send if no one else commented, but didn't follow up due to no one responding
14:41:59 [pgearon]
LeeF: KK-14 assigned to kasei
14:42:08 [pgearon]
kasei: done, just need to write the response
14:42:24 [pgearon]
LeeF: KR-1, are you waiting for someone to comment on this?
14:42:34 [pgearon]
kasei: just did it last night
14:42:43 [pgearon]
LeeF: happy with KR-1, so send
14:42:58 [pgearon]
LeeF: AL-1, needs chimezie
14:43:17 [LeeF]
14:43:39 [pgearon]
LeeF: IH-1 from Ivan
14:43:47 [SteveH]
14:43:50 [pgearon]
AndyS: done the change, but haven't written the response
14:44:48 [LeeF]
ack SteveH
14:45:00 [pgearon]
AndyS: real problem with Ivan's comment is that we don't reference OWL semantics at all in the query doc
14:45:45 [LeeF]
ACTION: Steve to add text clarifying that functions/operators that return errors may be extended a la
14:45:45 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-512 - Add text clarifying that functions/operators that return errors may be extended a la [on Steve Harris - due 2011-08-09].
14:46:00 [pgearon]
SteveH: going back to earlier comment, can't find specific text. Will work on that
14:47:08 [pgearon]
LeeF: not prepared to do anything significant on test cases right now. Need to do it, but other stuff is more significant right now
14:47:16 [LeeF]
topic: ACTION bookkeeping
14:47:23 [kasei]
ACTION-484 is the part of KK-14 that I've done
14:47:24 [pgearon]
LeeF: quickly, does anyone know of open actions on them that are complete that we can close?
14:47:28 [LeeF]
14:48:42 [LeeF]
close ACTION-484
14:48:42 [trackbot]
ACTION-484 Look at Kjetil's test case and incorporate it into the SPARQL WG test suite and email the group about it closed
14:48:53 [alex]
I've 54 and 72 still pending review - need to be closed
14:49:27 [alex]
neither am I :)
14:49:46 [pgearon]
LeeF: pending review actions are probably all completed. Will check
14:50:00 [LeeF]
ACTION: Lee to review and close the pending review actions (
14:50:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-513 - Review and close the pending review actions ( [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-08-09].
14:50:56 [Zakim]
14:50:57 [bglimm]
14:50:57 [Zakim]
14:50:58 [Zakim]
14:50:59 [Zakim]
14:51:01 [Zakim]
14:51:02 [Zakim]
14:51:02 [MattPerry]
14:51:03 [Zakim]
14:51:03 [Zakim]
14:51:12 [Zakim]
14:51:13 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
14:51:15 [Zakim]
Attendees were kasei, AndyS, MattPerry, cbuilara, LeeF, pgearon, bglimm, alex_, SteveH__, SteveH
15:22:21 [alex_]
alex_ has joined #sparql
15:46:26 [SteveH__]
SteveH__ has joined #sparql
16:57:37 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #sparql