14:51:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov
14:51:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-prov-irc
14:51:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:51:55 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov
14:51:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
14:51:57 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:51:58 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:51:58 <trackbot> Date: 28 July 2011
14:52:20 <pgroth> Chair: Paul Groth
14:52:33 <pgroth> Regrets: Helena Deus
14:53:18 <pgroth> zakim, who is on the call?
14:53:18 <Zakim> sorry, pgroth, I don't know what conference this is
14:53:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed, edsu, sandro, trackbot
14:53:33 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV
14:53:33 <Zakim> ok, pgroth, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started
14:53:40 <pgroth> zakim, who is on the call?
14:53:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P33
14:53:49 <pgroth> Zakim, ??P33 is me
14:53:49 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
14:53:52 <Luc> Luc has joined #prov
14:54:04 <pgroth> can anyone on the call scribe today?
14:55:25 <pgroth> Regrests: Helena Deus, Reza B'Far
14:56:00 <Zakim> + +44.238.059.aaaa
14:56:19 <Luc> zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me
14:56:19 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
14:56:40 <Curt> Curt has joined #prov
14:57:15 <Zakim> + +1.443.987.aabb
14:57:25 <Edoardo> Edoardo has joined #prov
14:57:57 <Zakim> + +1.858.210.aacc
14:58:13 <Zakim> +??P41
14:58:33 <Curt> zakim, +1.443.987.aabb is me
14:58:33 <Zakim> +Curt; got it
14:58:40 <pgroth> can anyone scribe today?
14:58:48 <Zakim> +??P44
14:58:56 <GK1> GK1 has joined #prov
14:59:59 <JimM> JimM has joined #prov
15:00:23 <khalidbelhajjame> khalidbelhajjame has joined #prov
15:00:32 <dcorsar> dcorsar has joined #prov
15:00:33 <smiles> smiles has joined #prov
15:00:34 <zednik> zednik has joined #prov
15:00:35 <StephenCresswell> StephenCresswell has joined #prov
15:00:48 <Zakim> + +1.540.449.aadd
15:01:15 <Zakim> +??P54
15:01:19 <pgroth> can someone scribe today?
15:01:56 <Zakim> +??P63
15:02:04 <Zakim> + +1.518.633.aaee
15:02:07 <smiles> zakim, ??P63 is me
15:02:17 <Zakim> +smiles; got it
15:02:46 <pgroth> Scribe: smiles
15:02:46 <SamCoppens> SamCoppens has joined #prov
15:02:50 <Zakim> +??P68
15:02:52 <Christine> Christine has joined #prov
15:02:58 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aaff
15:03:03 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, ??P54 is me
15:03:03 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it
15:03:13 <tlebo> tlebo has joined #prov
15:03:51 <Zakim> +Kingsley_Idehen
15:03:55 <smiles> pgroth: describes agenda
15:04:00 <pgroth>    http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-07-21
15:04:01 <MacTed> Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software
15:04:07 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:04:09 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it
15:04:09 <pgroth> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of 21 Jul telecon and F2F1
15:04:15 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:04:20 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
15:04:22 <tlebo> +1
15:04:22 <Curt> +1
15:04:25 <smiles> 0 (was not present)
15:04:25 <zednik> +1
15:04:29 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:04:38 <Zakim> + +329331aagg
15:04:41 <StephenCresswell> +1
15:04:42 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:04:46 <Zakim> +??P28
15:04:47 <Edoardo> +1
15:04:48 <dgarijo> dgarijo has joined #prov
15:04:53 <dcorsar> =+1
15:04:53 <GK> GK has joined #prov
15:05:03 <SamCoppens> zakim, +329331aagg is me
15:05:04 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it
15:05:08 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
15:05:14 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open
15:05:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, Curt, +1.858.210.aacc, ??P41, ??P44, +1.540.449.aadd, khalidbelhajjame, smiles, +1.518.633.aaee, ??P68, +1.518.276.aaff, MacTed (muted), SamCoppens,
15:05:23 <Zakim> ... ??P28
15:05:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see GK, dgarijo, tlebo, Christine, SamCoppens, StephenCresswell, zednik, smiles, dcorsar, khalidbelhajjame, JimM, GK1, Edoardo, Curt, Luc, Zakim, RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed,
15:05:27 <smiles> Topic: Action items
15:05:32 <Zakim> ... edsu, sandro, trackbot
15:05:46 <smiles> pgroth: Actions have been cleaned up, as sometimes completed, sometimes superceded
15:05:49 <Zakim> -??P28
15:06:05 <smiles> pgroth: One action left on Stephan regarding 2nd iteration of use case questionnaire
15:06:30 <Zakim> +??P13
15:06:40 <smiles> Topic: deadline for issues submission
15:06:47 <Luc> q?
15:06:49 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P13 is me
15:06:58 <pgroth> q?
15:07:02 <smiles> pgroth: would be good to have a deadline for issue submission, suggest next week's telecon
15:07:03 <Zakim> +??P10
15:07:07 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
15:07:12 <GK> zakim, ??P10 is me
15:07:13 <Zakim> +GK; got it
15:07:15 <khalidbelhajjame> ?q
15:07:19 <pgroth> q?
15:07:22 <khalidbelhajjame> +q
15:07:38 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aaff
15:07:50 <smiles> khalid: with respect to all drafts or just model and paq?
15:07:55 <smiles> pgroth: should be all documents
15:08:00 <khalidbelhajjame> -q
15:08:08 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aahh
15:08:25 <smiles> ... if we feel like opening up for a document, we can do so, e.g. ontology
15:08:29 <smiles> q+
15:08:41 <GK> q+ to say I don't think its reasonable to close documents to issue submission, if that's being proposed
15:08:42 <pgroth> ack simon
15:09:20 <smiles> smiles: what do we do if we think of more issues after deadline
15:09:20 <pgroth> ack smiles
15:09:26 <pgroth> ack GK
15:09:26 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to say I don't think its reasonable to close documents to issue submission, if that's being proposed
15:09:29 <jcheney> jcheney has joined #prov
15:09:35 <Zakim> +??P12
15:09:46 <jcheney> zakim, ??p12 is me
15:09:46 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
15:09:46 <smiles> pgroth: should leave until after first draft, so we have a set we will resolve for that draft
15:10:18 <smiles> GK: not reasonable to close the issue list, but end which issues will be in first draft
15:10:31 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aaii
15:10:50 <smiles> pgroth: issues can be raised, but no more open issues for first draft after next week
15:11:09 <pgroth> q?
15:11:09 <smiles> ... editor can say issue is closed pending review
15:11:47 <smiles> pgroth: Please sign up to scribe! especially for next week
15:11:59 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/NameSuggestions
15:12:09 <satya> satya has joined #prov
15:12:09 <smiles> Topic: Name suggestions for standard (model/language)
15:12:16 <Luc> Topic: Call for name suggestions
15:12:31 <smiles> ... please go to site above to look at suggestions
15:12:55 <smiles> ... add suggestions, next week we will have a straw poll on what the group likes
15:13:12 <smiles> Topic: W3C Privacy Interest Group
15:13:44 <smiles> Christine: W3C is proposing two new privacy-related groupPrivacy Interest Group
15:13:57 <Christine> http://www.w3.org/2011/07/privacy-ig-charter
15:14:20 <smiles> ... Privacy Interest Group and Tracking Protection Group
15:14:38 <Christine> http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/charter-draft
15:15:11 <smiles> ... the privacy community may be one we are interested in talking to
15:15:54 <Zakim> +wcandillon
15:15:59 <pgroth> q?
15:16:00 <smiles> ... might ask them to add our group to their charter, perhaps with regard to the agreed use of private data
15:16:36 <smiles> pgroth: always useful to have connections to other WGs, just restricted by bandwidth of people in the group
15:16:50 <smiles> ... anyone in privacy groups involved in our WG?
15:17:09 <GK> q+ to say I think the importance of connecting may have more to do with social/policy implications, less well defined than technical issues just implied
15:17:17 <smiles> Christine: privacy groups not formed yet, but am considering asking to join
15:17:20 <pgroth> ack GK
15:17:20 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to say I think the importance of connecting may have more to do with social/policy implications, less well defined than technical issues just implied
15:17:59 <smiles> GK: is benefit at technical level, or maybe better at policy level, reinforcing user trust in systems?
15:18:17 <smiles> (benefit of interaction of groups)
15:19:14 <smiles> Christine: TP group will be very technical, but what is interesting about PIG for W3C is people with interest in both user and technical areas
15:19:40 <jorn> jorn has joined #prov
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15:20:01 <smiles> pgroth: if group gets formed, useful to know what we can do to advertise provenance WG work as it can help them
15:20:04 <Zakim> +??P17
15:20:27 <GK> (What's to object to?)
15:20:48 <smiles> Topic: Update on provenance access document
15:21:07 <Zakim> -wcandillon
15:21:15 <smiles> GK: document now in version control repository
15:21:32 <Zakim> +wcandillon
15:21:34 <smiles> ... some issues raised, GK responding
15:21:41 <jorn> zakim, ??p17 is me
15:21:41 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
15:22:17 <smiles> ... several editorial issues dealt with, but other issues require more discussion, including interaction of access mechanism and model
15:22:38 <khalidbelhajjame> +q
15:22:44 <tlebo> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/bc0bbf26efab/paq/provenance-access.html, right?
15:22:48 <pgroth> ack khalid
15:23:05 <smiles> khalid: is version on main page of WG Wiki the one circulated this morning?
15:23:37 <tlebo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/WorkingDrafts
15:23:39 <smiles> GK: yes, should be the latest one
15:23:47 <tlebo> refers to the "always latest" http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/paq/provenance-access.html
15:23:58 <khalidbelhajjame> -q
15:24:23 <Zakim> -wcandillon
15:24:31 <smiles> Topic: Provenance ontology
15:24:45 <pgroth> Satya?
15:25:14 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
15:25:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, Curt, +1.858.210.aacc, ??P41, ??P44, +1.540.449.aadd, khalidbelhajjame, smiles, +1.518.633.aaee, ??P68, MacTed (muted), SamCoppens, dgarijo, GK,
15:25:17 <Zakim> ... +1.518.276.aahh, jcheney, +1.518.276.aaii, jorn
15:25:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see Yogesh, jorn, satya, jcheney, GK, dgarijo, tlebo, Christine, SamCoppens, StephenCresswell, zednik, smiles, dcorsar, khalidbelhajjame, JimM, GK1, Edoardo, Curt, Luc,
15:25:20 <Zakim> ... Zakim, RRSAgent, pgroth, MacTed, edsu, sandro, trackbot
15:25:31 <satya> a couple of mins - just joing again
15:25:46 <smiles> pgroth: first draft of ontology, available on version control, plus brief document describing class hierarchy
15:26:03 <pgroth> q?
15:26:12 <pgroth> q?
15:26:14 <Luc> q+
15:26:20 <pgroth> ack Luc
15:27:13 <smiles> Luc: some differences between ontology file and specification document, e.g. most concepts subclass of Bob in one document but not the other
15:27:14 <Zakim> + +1.706.461.aajj
15:27:33 <smiles> ... also, some differences with conceptual model, not sure how group should address these
15:28:16 <khalidbelhajjame> Probably we can wait a bit until the model is stable, and most issues are resolved, before trying to check the consistency between the model and the OWL ontology
15:29:04 <smiles> satya: HTML is most consistent version, OWL is under development taking into account capabilities of OWL
15:29:53 <smiles> ... by definitions in conceptual model, process execution and agent are subclasses of BOB, so in HTML document, but am to raise this issue with conceptual model
15:30:23 <dgarijo> +q
15:30:54 <smiles> ... please fire issues regarding discrepancies of HTML specification of formal model and conceptual model
15:31:52 <dgarijo> @Satya: I would like to help you in this task
15:31:54 <tlebo> +q
15:31:59 <smiles> ... met RPI people, to get help with editing document, ontology, visualising schema
15:32:03 <tlebo> q+ I've volunteered
15:32:29 <khalidbelhajjame> yes, I would like to help. I am not expert in OWL, but am ready to give it a go
15:32:34 <Zakim> + +1.512.524.aakk
15:32:41 <smiles> Luc: Paul and I will find co-editor for this document, probably from RPI (ACTION)
15:32:45 <pgroth> ack dgarijo
15:32:59 <rgolden> rgolden has joined #prov
15:33:29 <smiles> dgarijo: sent issues by email about document, will raise
15:33:39 <smiles> ... volunteers to help on formal semantics
15:33:47 <pgroth> ack tlebo
15:33:48 <Luc> Regrests: Helena Deus, Reza B'Far, Paolo Missier
15:33:49 <khalidbelhajjame> Thanks Satya
15:33:53 <smiles> satya: will contact those interested in helping on formal semantics
15:34:07 <pgroth> Regrets: Helena Deus, Reza B'Far, Paolo Missier
15:34:15 <smiles> tlebo: will help out in defining ontology, Deborah sent some guidance by email
15:34:16 <pgroth> q?
15:34:18 <Yogesh> zakim, +1.540 is me
15:34:18 <Zakim> +Yogesh; got it
15:34:22 <tlebo> q-
15:34:27 <pgroth> ack sees I've
15:34:42 <pgroth> q?
15:34:45 <smiles> ack I've
15:34:50 <smiles> ack volun
15:35:00 <smiles> Topic: conceptual model
15:35:25 <smiles> Luc: document released by Paolo and I, many issues raised, lots of discussion
15:35:31 <Zakim> -jorn
15:35:38 <smiles> ... some issues dealt with, hope to be able to close soon
15:35:55 <smiles> ... over next week deal with others, then Paolo and I away for two weeks
15:36:12 <Zakim> +??P17
15:36:16 <smiles> pgroth: possible to get some core issues done, so satya can proceed?
15:36:46 <smiles> Luc: by the time Paolo and I go away, hope to have reasonable set of concepts defined, possibly up to Role in the document
15:37:08 <smiles> ... have these sections in a decent state
15:37:11 <GK> I regret I haven't had time to review the provenance model doc properly yet, but when I do I'd like to draft a proposal to eliminate the Entity/BOB distinction.
15:37:31 <smiles> ... not sure whether people have more issues to raise
15:38:13 <smiles> Luc: need to decide on Entity/BOB soon
15:38:33 <smiles> pgroth: get issues in my early next week, to ensure get somewhere before Luc, Paolo away
15:38:36 <pgroth> issues up to 5.11
15:38:46 <smiles> Topic: BOB
15:38:58 <ilkayaltintas> ilkayaltintas has joined #prov
15:39:18 <pgroth> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#bob
15:39:29 <smiles> Luc: In Section 5.1, we have BOB concept, which is a construct of the language
15:39:42 <smiles> ... no term called 'entity'
15:40:18 <smiles> ... in text of document use term entity with natural language meaning, not defined as part of model
15:40:33 <satya> satya has joined #prov
15:40:44 <smiles> ... Need to decide 1. Have we got only one concept in the model?
15:40:51 <GK> AH, OK, "BOB" is the new "Entity"
15:40:52 <smiles> ... 2. What should we call it?
15:40:56 <pgroth> q?
15:41:18 <smiles> q+
15:41:31 <rgolden> +1
15:41:34 <smiles> Luc: question 1 may be translated to only one class in ontology
15:41:36 <GK> +1 for only one [formal class] construct in the language
15:41:43 <pgroth> ack smiles
15:41:57 <JimM> +1
15:42:12 <khalidbelhajjame> simon: agree that there is only one concept in the model
15:42:23 <smiles> +1
15:42:29 <satya> +1 agree with one concept and proposal for calling it entity
15:43:00 <tlebo> +1 for Entity not a class in the model, Concept is a class.
15:43:00 <zednik> +1 agree with one concept and call it entity
15:43:03 <smiles> Luc: Jim McCusker has argued for two distinct concepts
15:43:13 <satya> Jim McCusker  is in a conference - may not be on the call
15:44:06 <smiles> khalid: I believe the idea Jim was to allow us to be able to express that two BOBs characterise same entity
15:44:10 <JimM> q+
15:44:14 <GK> q+ to suggest a clear statement of this change is announced to the list so WG members can comment 
15:44:38 <smiles> ... I was supporting same but not include entity as a concept in the model
15:44:38 <Luc> @GK, the draft makes this clear
15:45:10 <pgroth> ack JimM
15:45:46 <smiles> JimM: I think Jim McCusker is trying to distinguish between a thing and the document describing it
15:46:10 <smiles> ... e.g. a URI for him, one for document describing him
15:46:17 <GK> @Luc, I'm sure it does, but lacking time to do a proper review I haven't been aware of the change
15:46:50 <JimM> q-
15:46:53 <pgroth> ack GK
15:46:53 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to suggest a clear statement of this change is announced to the list so WG members can comment
15:47:12 <Luc> q+
15:47:19 <pgroth> ack Luc
15:47:52 <smiles> Luc: never had both BOB and entity, so having one will not be a change
15:47:52 <tlebo> Entity vs. BOB - We can't write Entities down, we can only write down BOBs that can only scratch at describing the real physical or conceptual Entity
15:48:13 <pgroth> q?
15:48:34 <rgolden> the whiteboard was the source of my confusion
15:48:37 <smiles> GK: recollects whiteboard with two columns
15:48:55 <StephenCresswell> +1 for bobs only in model, if there's a way to identify the "top bob"
15:48:57 <rgolden> but now realize that the left column on the whiteboard was not a first-class concept
15:49:12 <smiles> Luc: right column was constructs in the language, left was term used informally
15:49:51 <smiles> GK: when you say "represent" do you mean "denote"?
15:50:04 <khalidbelhajjame> Stuff became Entity and Thing became Bob
15:50:06 <smiles> Luc: please go back to document to see exact wording
15:50:15 <satya> q+
15:50:35 <pgroth> ack satya
15:51:22 <smiles> satya: when considering provenance, we should not distinguish between what is in real world and our representation in an information system
15:51:26 <tlebo> the whiteboard from F2F1 distinguishing Entities from BOBs http://twitpic.com/5x7oen/full
15:51:39 <Zakim> -??P17
15:51:43 <smiles> ... we should only be concerned with our constructs, so only one concept
15:51:45 <pgroth> q?
15:52:06 <Zakim> +??P17
15:52:24 <pgroth> proposed: this is the Existence of a single concept pil:BOB (name TBD) as opposed to two concepts (pil:Entity/pil:BOB)
15:52:28 <satya> +1
15:52:32 <smiles> +1
15:52:37 <StephenCresswell> +1
15:52:39 <dgarijo> +1
15:52:40 <GK> +1
15:52:40 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
15:52:41 <jcheney> 0
15:52:42 <JimM> +1
15:52:44 <Edoardo> +1
15:52:50 <rgolden> Phrased a bit oddly, but +1
15:52:53 <dcorsar> +1
15:53:04 <Curt> +1
15:53:07 <rgolden> sure
15:53:10 <ilkayaltintas> +1
15:53:20 <SamCoppens> +1
15:53:22 <tlebo> q+
15:53:33 <Luc> q+
15:53:41 <rgolden> proposed: That there exists only a single concept pil:BOB (name TBD) as opposed to two concepts (pil:Entity/pil:BOB)
15:53:43 <Luc> ack luc
15:53:49 <zednik> +1
15:53:59 <tlebo> +1 (as long as "entity" is part of the description of pil:BOB
15:54:07 <satya> +1
15:54:10 <smiles> +1
15:54:10 <rgolden> +1
15:54:12 <Curt> +1
15:54:12 <GK> +1
15:54:15 <Yogesh> +1
15:54:19 <StephenCresswell> +1
15:54:21 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 (for both proposals :-)
15:54:29 <SamCoppens> +1
15:54:38 <Edoardo> +1
15:54:41 <dcorsar> +1
15:54:56 <smiles> Accepted: That there exists only a single concept pil:BOB (name TBD) as opposed to two concepts (pil:Entity/pil:BOB)
15:54:59 <dgarijo> @tlebo: yes, it is used: "A BOB represents an identifiable characterized entity"
15:55:30 <smiles> pgroth: What should we call BOB?
15:55:43 <pgroth> Entity,
15:55:44 <pgroth> Snapshot
15:55:44 <pgroth> View
15:55:44 <pgroth> Perspective
15:55:44 <pgroth> InstantiatedEntity/EntityInstance
15:55:59 <khalidbelhajjame> EntitySnapshot
15:56:01 <rgolden> Identifiable
15:56:04 <StephenCresswell> Bounded OBservation (or BOB for short)
15:56:07 <JimM> resource :-)
15:56:12 <smiles> Thing
15:56:13 <dgarijo> EntityDescription?
15:56:17 <GK> q+ to ask now we've talked around this, does anything distinguish this from rdf:Resource or owl:Thing?
15:56:29 <StephenCresswell> Appearance
15:56:29 <pgroth> ack tlebo
15:56:43 <pgroth> ack GK
15:56:43 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to ask now we've talked around this, does anything distinguish this from rdf:Resource or owl:Thing?
15:56:44 <Luc> q+
15:56:48 <pgroth> ack Luc
15:56:52 <smiles> GK: is there anything to distinguish the concept from an RDF resource or OWL Thing?
15:56:55 <smiles> Luc: yes and no
15:57:20 <smiles> ... BOB's should be identifiable as with resource/Thing, but also list attributes and their values
15:57:20 <satya> q+ to GK for clarifying his que
15:57:45 <tlebo> BOBs are a very small subset of rdfs:Resource/owl:Thing; BOBs are only the things we've written down to describe entities.
15:57:47 <smiles> ... Thing can be extended to have attributes, values
15:57:47 <JimM> teh difference is by degree - we might want to look in more detail/shorter lived things, but I don't see a difference in kind
15:58:13 <smiles> GK: resources and Things have attributes, just not required attributes
15:58:20 <pgroth> ack satya
15:58:20 <Zakim> satya, you wanted to GK for clarifying his que
15:58:24 <tlebo> q+
15:58:47 <smiles> satya: RDF resource and OWL Thing are different from each other
15:58:54 <GK> My proposal is owl:Thing or rdf:Resource (areen't they the same in OWL full?)
15:59:26 <smiles> tlebo: BOB's are only things we are writing down to describe entities in the real world
15:59:29 <GK> I thoughts BOBs could be anything too
15:59:52 <smiles> Luc: agree that BOB is subclass of RDF resource or OWL Thing
16:00:02 <smiles> ... but can postpone this debate (use sameAs)
16:00:08 <pgroth> Entity,
16:00:09 <pgroth> Snapshot
16:00:09 <pgroth> View
16:00:09 <pgroth> Perspective
16:00:10 <pgroth> InstantiatedEntity/EntityInstance
16:00:10 <pgroth> EntitySnapshot
16:00:11 <pgroth> Bounded OBservation (or BOB for short)
16:00:13 <pgroth> resource
16:00:15 <pgroth> Thing
16:00:17 <pgroth> EntityDescription
16:00:19 <pgroth> Appearance
16:00:31 <tlebo> "writing down" in a very general sense. BOBs must exist in space time.
16:00:38 <rgolden> Identifiable
16:00:41 <satya> +1 for Entity
16:00:44 <pgroth> Entity
16:00:47 <GK> +1
16:00:48 <satya> +1
16:00:48 <JimM> +1
16:00:49 <smiles> +1
16:00:49 <jcheney> +1
16:00:49 <rgolden> +1
16:00:50 <Curt> +1
16:00:53 <Edoardo> +1
16:00:54 <zednik> +1
16:00:57 <dcorsar> +1
16:00:58 <dgarijo> +1
16:00:58 <Yogesh> +1
16:00:59 <khalidbelhajjame> 0 for Entity
16:01:05 <pgroth> Snapshot
16:01:06 <ilkayaltintas> +1
16:01:06 <jcheney> (+1 for simoninireland who is here)
16:01:08 <GK> -1
16:01:08 <satya> -1
16:01:09 <JimM> -1
16:01:10 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 
16:01:11 <Yogesh> +1
16:01:12 <Luc> @rgolden, process executions are also identifiable but are not BOBs
16:01:14 <smiles> -1
16:01:16 <SamCoppens> +1
16:01:18 <dgarijo> 0
16:01:18 <jcheney> -1
16:01:22 <pgroth> View
16:01:24 <satya> -1
16:01:25 <GK> -1
16:01:25 <smiles> -1
16:01:26 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
16:01:26 <Yogesh> -1
16:01:26 <Curt> -1
16:01:27 <JimM> -1
16:01:29 <zednik> -1
16:01:30 <StephenCresswell> +1
16:01:32 <dgarijo> -1
16:01:32 <tlebo> +1
16:01:38 <jcheney> -1
16:01:40 <pgroth> Perspective
16:01:42 <satya> -1
16:01:43 <GK> -1
16:01:43 <smiles> -1
16:01:43 <Curt> -1
16:01:43 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
16:01:43 <JimM> -1
16:01:43 <jcheney> -1
16:01:45 <Yogesh> 0
16:01:46 <rgolden> -1
16:01:49 <ilkayaltintas> 0
16:01:50 <dgarijo> 0
16:01:54 <SamCoppens> 0
16:01:57 <dcorsar> -1
16:01:59 <Edoardo> -1
16:02:03 <pgroth> InstantiatedEntity/EntityInstance
16:02:05 <satya> -1
16:02:05 <zednik> -1
16:02:06 <GK> -1
16:02:06 <JimM> 0
16:02:07 <rgolden> -1
16:02:08 <SamCoppens> -1
16:02:08 <khalidbelhajjame> -1
16:02:09 <smiles> 0
16:02:09 <jcheney> -1
16:02:11 <Edoardo> -1
16:02:13 <dgarijo> 0
16:02:13 <dcorsar> -1
16:02:15 <Curt> 0
16:02:17 <Yogesh> 0
16:02:20 <pgroth> EntitySnapshot
16:02:21 <satya> -1
16:02:22 <GK> -1
16:02:24 <smiles> -1
16:02:24 <JimM> -1
16:02:24 <Curt> -1
16:02:24 <Yogesh> +1
16:02:25 <ilkayaltintas> -1
16:02:26 <rgolden> -1
16:02:27 <jcheney> -1
16:02:27 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
16:02:30 <Edoardo> -1
16:02:31 <SamCoppens> -1
16:02:34 <dcorsar> -1
16:02:40 <pgroth> Bounded OBservation (or BOB for short)
16:02:42 <satya> -1
16:02:45 <GK> -1
16:02:47 <khalidbelhajjame> -1
16:02:47 <rgolden> :) -1
16:02:47 <smiles> -1
16:02:47 <Yogesh> -1
16:02:49 <Curt> -1
16:02:50 <ilkayaltintas> -1  :)
16:02:52 <dgarijo> -1
16:02:53 <jcheney> -1
16:02:53 <Edoardo> -1
16:02:54 <zednik> :) -1
16:02:56 <dcorsar> -1
16:02:56 <JimM> :-), but -1
16:02:57 <SamCoppens> -1
16:03:02 <pgroth> resource
16:03:05 <satya> -1
16:03:05 <GK> +1
16:03:07 <smiles> 0
16:03:08 <Curt> +1
16:03:08 <Yogesh> -1
16:03:09 <tlebo> -1
16:03:09 <Edoardo> 0
16:03:10 <dgarijo> -1
16:03:11 <khalidbelhajjame> -1
16:03:11 <JimM> +1
16:03:12 <rgolden> 0
16:03:12 <ilkayaltintas> 0
16:03:13 <MacTed> -1
16:03:13 <jcheney> 0
16:03:14 <dcorsar> -1
16:03:15 <SamCoppens> -1
16:03:18 <pgroth> Thing
16:03:20 <satya> -1
16:03:20 <GK> +1
16:03:22 <smiles> +1
16:03:22 <Yogesh> -1
16:03:22 <ilkayaltintas> -1
16:03:22 <tlebo> -1
16:03:23 <SamCoppens> -1
16:03:24 <JimM> +1
16:03:25 <Edoardo> 0
16:03:25 <Curt> +1
16:03:25 <dgarijo> -1
16:03:26 <khalidbelhajjame> -1
16:03:27 <rgolden> 0
16:03:30 <dcorsar> -1
16:03:32 <jcheney> +1
16:03:35 <pgroth> EntityDescription
16:03:36 <satya> -1
16:03:39 <JimM> -1
16:03:39 <Curt> -1
16:03:39 <smiles> -1
16:03:39 <jcheney> -1
16:03:39 <rgolden> -1
16:03:39 <SamCoppens> -1
16:03:40 <Yogesh> -1
16:03:40 <GK> -1
16:03:41 <Edoardo> -1
16:03:43 <dgarijo> -1
16:03:43 <dcorsar> -1
16:03:47 <khalidbelhajjame> 0
16:03:51 <pgroth> Appearance
16:03:55 <Yogesh> -1
16:03:55 <GK> -1
16:03:55 <JimM> -1
16:03:56 <Curt> -1
16:03:56 <satya> -1
16:03:56 <rgolden> -1
16:03:56 <smiles> 0
16:03:56 <Edoardo> -1
16:03:56 <dgarijo> -1
16:03:57 <jcheney> -1
16:03:57 <SamCoppens> -1
16:03:57 <khalidbelhajjame> -1
16:03:57 <ilkayaltintas> -1
16:03:59 <dcorsar> -1
16:04:04 <zednik> -1
16:04:25 <pgroth> Identifiable
16:04:27 <Yogesh> 0
16:04:27 <rgolden> +1
16:04:29 <satya> -1
16:04:29 <dgarijo> 0
16:04:31 <SamCoppens> -1
16:04:31 <khalidbelhajjame> -1
16:04:31 <Edoardo> 0
16:04:31 <Curt> 0
16:04:33 <smiles> 0
16:04:34 <tlebo> 0
16:04:35 <dcorsar> 0
16:04:35 <jcheney> 0
16:04:35 <JimM> 0
16:04:37 <GK> 0/+1...?
16:05:04 <smiles> pgroth: just a straw poll, but gives good indication
16:05:18 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame
16:05:19 <Zakim> -Yogesh
16:05:19 <Zakim> - +1.512.524.aakk
16:05:20 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aaii
16:05:21 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aahh
16:05:21 <pgroth> rrsagent, set log public
16:05:22 <Zakim> -dgarijo
16:05:24 <Zakim> -Luc
16:05:26 <Zakim> -jcheney
16:05:28 <Zakim> -??P68
16:05:30 <pgroth> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:05:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-prov-minutes.html pgroth
16:05:30 <Zakim> -SamCoppens
16:05:32 <Zakim> -GK
16:05:35 <pgroth> trackbot, end telcon
16:05:35 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:05:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:05:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/28-prov-minutes.html trackbot
16:05:36 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:05:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:05:37 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
16:05:38 <Zakim> -??P17