07:10:29 RRSAgent has joined #dap 07:10:29 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/07/20-dap-irc 07:10:31 RRSAgent, make logs world 07:10:31 Zakim has joined #dap 07:10:33 Zakim, this will be DAP 07:10:33 ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP(WGF2F)2:00AM scheduled to start 70 minutes ago 07:10:34 Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference 07:10:34 Date: 20 July 2011 07:10:48 cmarc has joined #dap 07:10:51 Chair: Frederick, Robin 07:10:56 Present+ Cecile_Marc 07:11:23 Kihong_Kwon has joined #dap 07:11:32 SungOk_You has joined #dap 07:11:33 Present+ Kihong_Kwon 07:11:36 fjh has joined #dap 07:11:56 trackbot, start telecon 07:11:58 RRSAgent, make logs world 07:12:00 Zakim, this will be DAP 07:12:00 ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP(WGF2F)2:00AM scheduled to start 72 minutes ago 07:12:01 Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference 07:12:01 Date: 20 July 2011 07:12:48 Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch 07:12:48 Present+ Francois_Daoust 07:12:51 ceyrigno has joined #dap 07:13:02 Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch 07:13:04 robin has joined #dap 07:13:16 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/F2F_Agenda_19,_20,_21_July_2011,_Paris 07:13:16 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/F2F_Agenda_19,_20,_21_July_2011,_Paris 07:13:37 Present+ Christophe_Eyrignoux 07:13:41 ScribeNick: ingmar 07:13:47 Topic: Administrative 07:14:14 kyungtak has joined #dap 07:14:24 Present+ SungOk_You 07:14:31 Present+ Kyung-Tak_Lee 07:15:30 Johnson has joined #dap 07:15:37 ernesto_jimenez has joined #dap 07:15:58 Present+ ernesto_jimenez 07:16:37 Present+ Johnson_Wang 07:17:07 Youngsun has joined #dap 07:17:47 bryan has joined #dap 07:18:03 present+ Sullivan_Bryan 07:22:02 scribe: ernesto_jimenez 07:22:09 scribenick: ernesto_jimenez 07:22:48 Topic: Testing 07:23:14 Topic: Testing 07:24:56 francois: We would like to change the situation where each WG handles it's own testing. We are about to create a testing activity with a testing interest group and probably a working group 07:25:50 ... the testing interest group will be the place to discuss testing and tools, and we'll be developing the framework for the groups to develop their own tests 07:26:44 ... if people are interested in joining or taking a role in that activity, please get in touch 07:27:18 Draft charter of the Browser Testing IG (not under review yet): http://www.w3.org/2011/05/testing-ig-charter.html 07:27:31 ... the group hasn't been formalised yet, but it should be soon 07:27:54 Draft charter of the Browser Testing and Tools WG (not yet under review): http://www.w3.org/2011/08/browser-testing-charter.html 07:28:19 public-test-infra 07:28:30 ... we have a public mailing list called public-test-infra 07:28:37 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-test-infra/ 07:29:22 ... the interest group is to work in the framework and the working group is to work on the web driver area (browser simulation) 07:30:22 ... you will soon receive formal links to review the charter 07:31:24 ... in the mean time we have been reviewing the existing testing frameworks and we have decided to start working with the CSS framework 07:32:23 ... I would encourage you to adapt DAP tests and use the framework 07:33:06 fjh: I've seen the charter and it looks like this only affects to browser tests 07:34:16 francois: yes, we have focused on browser testing because it's more common across different working groups 07:34:53 wonsuk has joined #dap 07:35:16 Present+ Wonsuk_Lee 07:35:31 present+ Ingmar_Kliche 07:35:45 Present+ Soonbo_Han 07:35:45 robin: in terms of tooling, is everything pretty much open? 07:35:57 Draft Testing requirements: http://www.w3.org/wiki/Testing/Requirements 07:36:04 francois: yes, everything is open right now, we started a wiki 07:36:39 ... with an architecture with the testing framework we want and we already got some suggestions 07:37:28 ... the main goal is to test specifications 07:39:05 robin: talking about tools that will allow to generate tests from the spec given certain markup 07:39:51 http://www.w3.org/TR/test-methodology/ 07:39:52 francois: we want to start having WG developing tests and writing the specs with testable assertions, in the long term we would like to have the test generation from the spec, but it's a long term goal 07:40:03 DKA has joined #dap 07:41:14 Present+ Daniel_Appelquist_(Lurking) 07:41:15 robin: talking about the document on how to write testable conformance requirements 07:42:05 bryan: it would be good to have some resources in W3C to assist working groups on their testing activities 07:43:07 francois: we'll need the resources, we need support to get the resources 07:43:27 robin: have you started talking with external organizations? 07:44:05 http://www.mosquito-fp7.eu/ 07:44:25 francois: not yet, we have had a contact with XXX1 and we will collaborate with them to work in an open interop event 07:45:04 ... they are working in interop through testing with the mosquito project 07:46:10 robin: have you talked to WAC? 07:47:10 francois: some people in the interest group have been in WAC. The difference with WAC and other orgs is that they do testing for certification and we don't want to do certification in the W3C 07:47:39 also http://tests.wacapps.net/ 07:47:49 ... but we want to create test suites that can be extracted into other test suites 07:48:11 ... the difficulty is to find a common set that works for different organisations and companies 07:50:26 Youngsun: asks about TV testing? 07:50:27 http://seleniumhq.org/ 07:51:49 francois: there has been some talk on the Web & TV about a testing framework suitable for TV and extracting some parts of the HTML5 tests, but the focus right now is on browsers 07:51:58 bryan: asks about selenium 07:52:09 francois: explains what selenium is and what it does 07:53:13 ... we want testing for different browsers, not only desktop, and we want to create a web driver standard that applies to browsers for different devices 07:54:47 robin: there's support for selenium in some mobile browsers 07:55:08 ernesto: the problem is that it's a hack, so it'll be nice to have an standard API 07:55:31 francois: that's the idea, to create an standard API to do web driver testing 07:55:50 robin: will it include screen captures? 07:56:20 francois: I don't think it's part on the web driver API, but I would suggest that you suggest to add screen capture in the charter of the working group 07:56:59 s/XXX1/ETSI/ 07:58:11 bryan: asks about the interop event 07:58:22 WebDriver For Mobile Browsers: http://code.google.com/p/selenium/wiki/WebDriverForMobileBrowsers 07:58:37 francois: says it'll probably be in december, in Europe and probably with more focus on mobile because of the people involved 07:59:24 bryan: when you say it's about testing browsers, does that include widget runtimes? 07:59:47 francois: yes 08:00:18 bryan: so the charter will say the focus will be in browsers and widget runtimes? 08:01:35 francois: says the charter doesn't mention widget runtimes explicitly right now, he suggests bryan to do the suggestion when he reviews the charter 08:04:09 robin: asks if the ig will be open 08:04:37 francois: it's not official yet, so it cannot be confirmed. with the charter as it is now, it will be open 08:05:02 http://w3c-test.org/dap/contacts/tests/ 08:05:38 hg clone https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dap 08:05:40 robin: is introducing the contacts test suite 08:06:10 http://w3c-test.org/dap/contacts/tests/test-suite.xml 08:08:10 http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-api/imp-report/ 08:09:36 bryan_ has joined #dap 08:10:41 bryan_ has left #dap 08:10:47 robin: asking if anybody is interested in developing tests in the WG 08:12:13 bryan has joined #dap 08:13:23 homata has joined #dap 08:13:48 http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/messaging/ 08:13:54 Topic: Messaging API 08:14:14 robin: introducing the messaging API 08:14:30 http://www.w3.org/mid/181FCCA2-77C2-4206-80EA-67379BD28175@berjon.com 08:15:15 ... there was an issue where you could not know what protocol was available, so a new design was suggested 08:15:28 08:15:38 .addAttachments() 08:15:51 08:16:05 ... where you will have an addAttachments method that would only be available for protocols that support attachments 08:16:29 robin: mailto would have an .addAttachments() method, but xmpp wouldn't 08:20:10 bryan: clarifying that it's not about finding if a protocol has support for attachments, but finding out what messaging protocols are supported in the browser (mail, sms, xmpp) 08:21:06 ACTION: Robin to review Messaging for publication 08:21:07 Created ACTION-431 - Review Messaging for publication [on Robin Berjon - due 2011-07-27]. 08:43:39 scribe: ingmar 08:44:07 scribenick: ingmar 08:49:38 topic "Media capture" 08:49:48 RRSAgent, draft minutes 08:49:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/20-dap-minutes.html francois 08:49:54 topic: Media capture 08:50:43 http://www.w3.org/mid/1306417721.3237.194.camel@altostratustier 08:50:44 there is no technical work to be done at the moment on HTML Media Capture 08:51:20 robin: question is about how to move on with Media Capture API 08:52:35 robin: coordination call with WebRTC, WebRTC would work on the streaming and media handling as discussed yesterday 08:54:18 http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/Overview-API 08:54:30 robin: current Media Caputure API could be developed further towards camera control (flash etc) 08:55:05 http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete/video-conferencing-and-peer-to-peer-communication.html 08:56:51 robin: this proposal handles streaming, but not e.g. zooming 08:57:44 brian: if we decide to drop the media capture api we should ask the group 08:58:15 s/brian/bryan/ 08:59:46 robin: the media capture api with zooming etc should work together with the streaming api 09:01:14 robin: the problem might be that the media capture api might just be a replacement of the systems capturing capability 09:05:37 robin. the media capture api provides a few advantages over HTML media caputure, such as format and length settings, but this might not be enough for a separate spech 09:05:45 s/spech/spec 09:08:03 bryan: the most interesting use case is to show a video as a preview inside an HTML page, record it and send it to the server (e.g. social media side) 09:08:20 robin: this could be achieved with the web-apps proposal 09:08:57 ... we agreed in Seoul to rely on whatever WebRTC will do on codecs 09:12:29 Kihong_Kwon has joined #dap 09:14:08 Zakim has left #dap 09:14:50 ingmar: capturing/recording would be covered by the web-apps/webrtc proposal, what would be the benefit of DAPs media capture api? Camera control? 09:15:47 robin: video and audio recording would be covered by webrtc, but taking pictures presumably not 09:16:18 q? 09:17:24 robin: the question remains if there is room for another spec between HTML media capture and the streaming API of webrtc 09:18:17 ernesto: what is the status of HTML media capture? 09:18:38 robin: it should be stable, need some discussion with HTML wg 09:18:44 [probably worth dropping the note in the introduction that says "The Working Group is investigating the opportunity to specify streaming access via the proposed element."] 09:24:39 issue: HTML Media Capture doesn't make sense if accept=image and capture=microphone 09:24:39 Created ISSUE-116 - HTML Media Capture doesn't make sense if accept=image and capture=microphone ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/116/edit . 09:25:14 issue: Should HTML Media Capture have options for front/user camera as in getUserMedia 09:25:14 Created ISSUE-117 - Should HTML Media Capture have options for front/user camera as in getUserMedia ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/117/edit . 09:26:56 ACTION: Ernesto to make a proposal for ISSUE-116 and ISSUE-117 09:26:56 Created ACTION-432 - Make a proposal for ISSUE-116 and ISSUE-117 [on Ernesto Jimenez - due 2011-07-27]. 09:29:59 SungOk_You_ has joined #dap 09:30:04 lgombos_ has joined #dap 09:30:28 robin: there dosn't seem to be huge interest in continuing media caputure api 09:30:52 s/caputure/capture 09:31:56 robin: we might want to think about use cases such as zooming or other camera control and observe the API proposal of WebRTC 09:33:28 Topic: Permissions API 09:33:50 http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/perms/FeaturePermissions.html 09:34:31 lazlo: this spec is used by the WebNotification spec 09:34:42 lgombos__ has joined #dap 09:34:59 s/lazlo/lgombos__ 09:35:06 webnotification feedback - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jul/0042.html 09:35:15 s/webnotification/permissions 09:35:52 Josh_Soref has joined #dap 09:35:58 present+ Josh_Soref 09:36:06 RRSAgent, make minutes 09:36:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/20-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref 09:37:27 http://berjon.com/blog/2011/06/numerical-constants-must-die.html 09:39:18 (webapps and html-wg are moving to numerical constants) 09:42:33 RESOLUTION: Switch to string constants 09:42:51 ... because existing implementatons are vendor prefixed 09:44:35 lgombos__ noticed that SysInfo has the same issue 09:44:52 s/lgombos__/lgombos__: I/ 09:44:54 RRSAgent, make minutes 09:44:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/20-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref 09:45:22 ... if we make this change in permissions api we should also make it in other specs 09:46:30 discussion on whether this functionality be available from workers 09:47:37 made the following chnages to the spec; added [NoInterfaceObject] to the Permissions interface; renamed Navigator to NavigatorPermissions 09:50:43 robin: the default for a new spec should be "not available from workers" 09:50:47 richt has joined #dap 09:51:42 ACTION: Laszlo to reply to Anne about his Permissions questions 09:51:42 Created ACTION-433 - Reply to Anne about his Permissions questions [on Laszlo Gombos - due 2011-07-27]. 09:54:22 permissionLevel would be better as permissionLevelFor 09:55:19 robin suggests permissionLevel would be better as permissionFor 09:57:16 http://www.w3.org/TR/api-perms/ 09:57:48 robin: we leave the names as is 09:58:32 johnson has joined #dap 09:59:08 Present+ Wang_Johnson 09:59:11 http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/RelExtensions 10:00:24 [ http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/api-perms/ ] 10:03:35 robin: future specs should define their strings, but we probably need a document for existing specs 10:07:08 robin: the only legacy spec seems to be geolocation 10:07:35 Josh_Soref: how about versioning? 10:11:21 http://www.w3.org/2005/04/xpointer-schemes/ 10:16:14 ACTION: Dom to investigate if DAP could use the XPointer registration code for feature registration 10:16:14 Created ACTION-434 - Investigate if DAP could use the XPointer registration code for feature registration [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2011-07-27]. 10:20:23 robin: will send the conclusions of the discussion to the group mailing list later 10:21:13 robin: when could we go to FPWD? 10:22:06 [ robin captures action items necessary before FPWD ] 10:22:50 Josh_Soref: what needs to be done is to copy over the prefix paragraph, metion that there is a registration process, create legacy list, recommendation on features for granularity 10:23:23 s/metion/mention/ 10:23:56 s/features/when distinct feature names might be needed/ 10:24:45 ACTION: Laszlo to update the Permissions draft based on f2f discussion and summary email from Robin in planning for FPWD, due 2011-09-01 10:24:46 Created ACTION-435 - Update the Permissions draft based on f2f discussion and summary email from Robin in planning for FPWD, due 2011-09-01 [on Laszlo Gombos - due 2011-07-27]. 10:24:55 action-435? 10:24:55 ACTION-435 -- Laszlo Gombos to update the Permissions draft based on f2f discussion and summary email from Robin in planning for FPWD, due 2011-09-01 -- due 2011-07-27 -- OPEN 10:24:55 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/435 10:25:41 We probably want a testable example permission which can be used for testing the specification 10:26:17 ACTION: Wonsuk to provide an example for Permissions 10:26:17 Created ACTION-436 - Provide an example for Permissions [on WonSuk Lee - due 2011-07-27]. 11:30:20 johnson has joined #dap 11:30:45 Present+ Wang_Johnson 11:33:45 Cathy_ has joined #dap 11:36:39 RRSAgent, generate minutes 11:36:39 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/20-dap-minutes.html Cathy_ 11:38:11 wonsuk has joined #dap 11:46:03 robin has joined #dap 11:46:12 Kihong_Kwon has joined #dap 11:52:41 zakim, who's your daddy? 11:52:56 RRSAgent, who's your daddy? 11:52:56 I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'who's your daddy' 11:53:02 Zakim has joined #dap 11:53:07 zakim, who's your daddy? 11:53:07 Ralph is taking good care of me but you all are my family, robin 11:53:39 cmarc has joined #dap 11:53:41 Cathy_ has joined #Dap 11:53:49 Present+ cecile_Marc 11:53:50 RRSAgent, make minutes 11:53:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/20-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref 11:55:31 francois has joined #dap 11:56:50 fjh has joined #dap 11:56:59 zakim, who is here? 11:57:00 sorry, fjh, I don't know what conference this is 11:57:02 On IRC I see fjh, francois, Cathy_, cmarc, Zakim, Kihong_Kwon, robin, wonsuk, johnson, richt, Josh_Soref, bryan, Youngsun, ernesto_jimenez, kyungtak, RRSAgent, shan, lgombos, 11:57:04 ... ilkka, ingmar, dom, trackbot 11:57:32 scribe: cmarc 11:57:53 lgombos_ has joined #dap 11:58:06 ScribeNick: cmarc 11:58:50 SungOk_You has joined #dap 11:59:09 could someone prod me when the agenda moves to Web & TV? ... 11:59:11 ... I have a number of things to do before I go on vacation tomorrow for a few weeks so regrets that I can't attend the whole meeting. 11:59:56 cmarc has joined #dap 12:00:44 TOPIC: network information 12:01:02 http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/netinfo/ 12:01:17 robin: has feedback from ingmar 12:01:29 bryan_ has joined #dap 12:01:40 the problem is the cost information 12:01:50 actually, I will dial in and listen now. Could someone open the bridge? 12:01:51 status in wac or gsma 12:02:03 Cathy has joined #dap 12:02:10 Present+ Cathy_Chan 12:02:14 look in android 2 types 12:02:30 wifi and .. 12:02:52 is it useful to have detail 2g, 3G 12:02:56 [ http://developer.android.com/reference/android/net/ConnectivityManager.html ] 12:03:03 mobile or wifi should be sufficient (bryan) 12:03:07 http://davidbcalhoun.com/2010/using-navigator-connection-android 12:03:18 [ http://developer.android.com/reference/android/net/NetworkInfo.html ] 12:03:48 josh: care about roaming 12:04:45 if the apps can know your cost .. 12:04:48 public String getTypeName () Return a human-readable name describe the type of the network, for example "WIFI" or "MOBILE". 12:06:16 robin: cost is quite impossible to specify 12:06:47 the problem is that roaming is not deterministic for cost 12:07:02 it depends on operators, regions 12:07:19 too difficult to quantify 12:08:21 zakim, this will be DAP 12:08:21 ok, francois, I see UW_DAP(WGF2F)2:00AM already started 12:08:26 Zakim, what's the code? 12:08:26 the conference code is 94323 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Josh_Soref 12:09:13 +Orange 12:09:18 Robin opens the bridge 12:09:22 Zakim, who is on the call? 12:09:22 On the phone I see richt, Cathy, Orange 12:09:52 subject cost and network info 12:10:35 robin informs us that there are places one can roam to where you'd be paying less than your home area 12:10:36 there is an operator in africa who offer the same price for 5 countries 12:11:07 Present+ Rich_Tibbett 12:11:13 section 4, multiple online event 12:11:19 can be an issue 12:11:35 it might trigger quite regularly 12:12:13 an event is fired if you change from 2g to 3g for example 12:12:20 and it can change very often 12:12:32 ceyrigno has joined #dap 12:14:02 bryan : it is not relevent to have 2g, 3G and so many details 12:14:34 robin: so at the end is this API useful at all? 12:16:04 the idea was : if they are different versions (optimized) of site, benefit to the good one 12:17:34 is there any active usage of this API 12:17:54 Phonegap has an implementation 12:18:15 bb as well 12:18:32 josh: we should inf out what is used 12:18:43 find out (sorry) 12:19:12 s/inf out/find out/ 12:19:51 google api is not documented 12:19:55 http://www.mobilexweb.com/blog/android-froyo-html5-accelerometer-flash-player 12:23:30 robin: should we talk to google people about that 12:23:56 ACTION: Laszlo to talk to the Android people about whether the Netinfo API is used and something they think was a good idea 12:23:56 Created ACTION-437 - Talk to the Android people about whether the Netinfo API is used and something they think was a good idea [on Laszlo Gombos - due 2011-07-27]. 12:24:50 bryan: how can we use it if not documented ? 12:25:04 josh: good question, but it is common in mobile web 12:25:11 ACTION: Josh to talk to Brian Leroux about the Netinfo API in PhoneGap to ask about uptake and feedback 12:25:11 Created ACTION-438 - Talk to Brian Leroux about the Netinfo API in PhoneGap to ask about uptake and feedback [on Josh Soref - due 2011-07-27]. 12:25:18 s/mobile/mobile (and sadly even non-mobile)/ 12:26:39 robin: we can freeze implementation on it 12:30:31 josh: sensors he apis on deviceorientation ... 12:30:40 s/he/the/ 12:32:01 use case : use a device as a mouse 12:32:10 proximity sensor 12:32:39 robin: if people have use cases,on it 12:34:12 josh: has it to be managed at the app level or platform level? platform 12:35:59 laszlo: which event should be managed by the page? 12:37:17 robin: should someone take an action to look at use cases, see what is relevant? 12:39:40 Feedback from others has been about wanting to get information from medical sensors 12:40:27 Our response to them was to try using a local websocket source to translate the information for use by web apps 12:40:55 It might make sense to have a NOTE suggesting something like that to people interested in exposing sensors 12:40:58 ACTION: Bryan to draft use cases for proximity, ambient light, and ambient sound sensors. 12:40:58 Created ACTION-439 - Draft use cases for proximity, ambient light, and ambient sound sensors. [on Bryan Sullivan - due 2011-07-27]. 12:42:19 write all the ideas about sensors 12:43:15 fjh has joined #dap 12:43:38 ernesto: it depends on sensors, we need something consistent for acceleromter for example 12:43:43 rrsagent, generate minutes 12:43:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/20-dap-minutes.html fjh 12:45:37 robin : maybe klaas wanted to propose something 12:46:10 s/klaas/Claes/ 12:46:31 [FWIW in http://www.w3.org/mid/6DFA1B20D858A14488A66D6EEDF26AA34D4885808D@seldmbx03.corpusers.net Claes talks about using Web Introducer for generic sensors] 12:47:57 there was no depployed implementation in bondi 12:48:13 implemented probably but not deployed .... 12:49:38 basically, if you don't trust websites... 12:51:09 overall synsinfo status spec is not moving 12:52:16 http://web-send.org/introducer/ 12:52:58 next topic 12:53:57 WebIntroducer is in dap group 12:54:23 it is in the charter 12:56:20 people involved in that document may join the group (in discussion) 12:56:38 TOPIC: Web and TV 12:57:00 Web and TV IG wiki: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Main_Page 12:57:24 François : it is an interest group, don't develop standards 12:57:41 was created following the workshop 12:58:01 the third workshop will occur in west coast in september 12:58:04 CfP for 3rd workshop: http://www.w3.org/2011/09/webtv/ 12:58:15 (first in japan, second was in berlin) 12:58:32 it was in february this year 12:58:57 discuss about needs for convergence between web and tv 12:59:10 (not tv on web, or web on tv) 12:59:28 mediapipeline task force: extend video stag 12:59:40 s/stag/tag 13:00:01 other topics adaptive streaming over http 13:00:08 accessibility issues 13:00:13 emergency issues 13:00:53 two active TF: home networking task force 13:00:55 RRSAgent, make minutes 13:00:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/20-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref 13:01:06 and mediapipeline TF 13:02:53 robin: hbbtv? involved 13:03:03 national, regional organization involved 13:03:18 many companies, broadcasters, etc.. 13:03:48 q? 13:04:11 François: some are invited to join dap 13:04:31 as the subject they are interested in are in this group 13:05:01 so that they work also on deliverables 13:06:41 TV is an important device, DAP is about mobile, desktop, TV, etc.. 13:08:19 françois: there is not point to have a web and TV working group 13:09:36 one topic discussed is device discovery 13:10:23 because TV is often the middle of other devices (at home) 13:10:43 device discovery is in dap new charter 13:11:41 (charter is waiting for management approval-soon) 13:14:02 he home nework TF is producing use cases and requirement 13:15:16 DAP could use those use cases and requirements 13:15:38 the participants of the TF has to move to WG 13:15:46 to contribute here in DAP 13:17:31 robin: the discovery has a lot of synergy with dap other works 13:17:57 oh god, we're talking about 'synergies'. 13:18:14 but is this does not work out... we will have to find something else 13:18:49 s/oh god, we're talking about 'synergies'.// 13:20:39 RRSAgent, make minutes 13:20:39 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/20-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref 13:20:51 --- break --- 13:21:19 Zakim, count down 15 minutes 13:21:19 I don't understand 'count down 15 minutes', robin 13:21:23 zakim, help 13:21:23 Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help. 13:21:26 Some of the commands I know are: 13:21:28 xxx is yyy - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx 13:21:31 if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted 13:21:34