IRC log of html-a11y on 2011-07-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

21:26:11 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
21:26:11 [RRSAgent]
logging to
21:26:13 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
21:26:13 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #html-a11y
21:26:15 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 2119
21:26:15 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
21:26:16 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
21:26:16 [trackbot]
Date: 13 July 2011
21:26:26 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM has now started
21:26:33 [Zakim]
21:26:44 [janina]
zakim, ??P4 is Janina
21:26:44 [Zakim]
+Janina; got it
21:26:54 [janina]
zakim, this will be 2119
21:26:54 [Zakim]
ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
21:27:06 [janina]
rrsagent, make log public
21:27:31 [janina]
Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
21:27:31 [janina]
Chair: John_Foliot
21:27:31 [janina]
Scribe: Janina_Sajka
21:27:31 [janina]
agenda: this
21:27:31 [janina]
agenda+ W3C Web & TV Workshop
21:27:32 [janina]
agenda+ Paused Media: Continuing Discussion
21:27:34 [janina]
agenda+ Hierarchical Navigation: Progress Checkin
21:27:36 [janina]
agenda+ Actions Review
21:27:38 [janina]
agenda+ Other Business?
21:27:40 [janina]
agenda+ be done
21:27:51 [janina]
zakim, agenda?
21:27:51 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
21:27:52 [Zakim]
1. W3C Web & TV Workshop [from janina]
21:27:55 [Zakim]
2. Paused Media: Continuing Discussion [from janina]
21:27:56 [Zakim]
3. Hierarchical Navigation: Progress Checkin [from janina]
21:27:59 [Zakim]
4. Actions Review [from janina]
21:28:00 [Zakim]
5. Other Business? [from janina]
21:28:00 [Zakim]
6. be done [from janina]
21:31:07 [Sean]
Sean has joined #html-a11y
21:33:47 [JF]
zakim, who's here?
21:33:47 [Zakim]
I notice WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM has restarted
21:33:48 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Janina, John_Foliot, Sean_Hayes
21:33:50 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Sean, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, JF, trackbot, [tm]
21:33:53 [judy]
judy has joined #html-a11y
21:36:40 [silvia]
silvia has joined #html-a11y
21:38:57 [Zakim]
21:39:13 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
21:39:13 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
21:39:47 [silvia]
zakim, who is here?
21:39:47 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Janina, John_Foliot, Sean_Hayes, silvia (muted)
21:39:47 [janina]
zakim, take up item 1
21:39:48 [Zakim]
On IRC I see silvia, judy, Sean, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, JF, trackbot, [tm]
21:39:50 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "W3C Web & TV Workshop" taken up [from janina]
21:40:45 [janina]
jf: Appears there's a total of 4 days of meeting
21:41:02 [janina]
jf: 2 days of the Workshop at ComCast, followed by 2 days of the W3C IG on Web & TV
21:41:10 [janina]
jf: Noting major names attending
21:41:28 [frankolivier]
frankolivier has joined #html-a11y
21:41:30 [janina]
jf: Asking if Sean will attend?
21:41:40 [janina]
Sean: Not me, but likely someone from Microsoft.
21:42:52 [Zakim]
21:42:54 [janina]
jf: I'll see about attending
21:43:17 [janina]
jf: Thinking Chaas may attend
21:43:37 [JF]
21:43:38 [janina]
zakim, next item
21:43:38 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Paused Media: Continuing Discussion" taken up [from janina]
21:44:31 [janina]
jf: ARIA-Describedby being proposed for several similar situations
21:44:53 [janina]
jf; Had extended conversation about the possibilities during Text Subteam past Monday
21:45:15 [janina]
jf: Only way is to render on screen
21:45:39 [janina]
janina: But, that can be the result of a user action
21:45:54 [janina]
jf: So, we need a scheme that can:
21:46:06 [janina]
jf: A, Indicate there's more data -- discoverability
21:46:24 [janina]
jf: B: Render that additional data on screen on user action --- perhaps right click?
21:46:28 [JF]
21:47:06 [janina]
jf: jf: This example renders an icon in the corner, clicking on it pulls descript into an iframe
21:47:14 [frankolivier]
zakim, [Microsoft] is frankolivier
21:47:14 [Zakim]
+frankolivier; got it
21:47:26 [janina]
jf: This isn't the answer for us, but it illustrates the kind of thing we need
21:48:05 [janina]
zakim, sho's here?
21:48:05 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, janina.
21:48:12 [janina]
zakim, who's here?
21:48:12 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Janina, John_Foliot, Sean_Hayes, silvia (muted), frankolivier
21:48:15 [Zakim]
On IRC I see frankolivier, silvia, judy, Sean, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, JF, trackbot, [tm]
21:49:13 [janina]
janina: So, going back to our old ARIA-Describedby solution,
21:49:24 [janina]
janina: Can we use something like that, perhaps via right-mouse click?
21:49:59 [janina]
jf: We need a way to make the availability of that info discoverable. Second, we need a way for users to choose to consume that info.
21:50:53 [janina]
jf: Whatever the solution, we need a rich solution, we need to support markup in the content
21:51:07 [janina]
jf: So, it's very similar to the longdesc situation
21:51:30 [janina]
jf: So, notmeaning to put anyone on the spot, Frank any thoughts?
21:51:36 [janina]
fo: No thought yet
21:51:43 [silvia]
I maintain to think that the solution is a kind of shadow dom
21:51:46 [Zakim]
21:53:04 [silvia] <- explains the feature nicely
21:53:43 [janina]
jb: Noting some good discussions with W3C team around these issues recently
21:55:38 [janina]
jf: Noting the note from Dmitri posted by Silvia
21:55:41 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
21:55:41 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
21:55:43 [janina]
jf: Asking for a quick recap
21:55:50 [silvia]
"Welcome to the twilight DOM — a chunk of document that’s accessible by traversal but not rendered on the page."
21:56:10 [janina]
sp: Think it explains exactly what we want
21:56:33 [janina]
sp: He's doing it through js, but I'm pretty sure we can do it in the browser
21:57:18 [janina]
sp: Believe our ARIA-Describedby strategy will eventually work
21:57:40 [janina]
sp: But, this isn't a problem with the spec, the problem is implementation
21:58:58 [janina]
janina: The spec piece is the markup we're proposing, if we're confident browsers can make that discoverable and show it on screen when users ask for it, we're good
21:59:09 [janina]
jf: The key is that it needs to become text on screen
21:59:31 [janina]
sp: But screen readers are already processing things that are not on screen
22:00:03 [janina]
sp: Think the same mechanism should work here
22:00:15 [janina]
sp: Don't think we can pinpoint any issues until we have implementations to look at
22:00:23 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
22:00:23 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
22:01:17 [janina]
jf: Noting again the similarities with longdesc and noting my long post about to go to list about that, inviting people's feedback
22:01:20 [janina]
zkim, next item
22:01:29 [janina]
zakim, next item
22:01:29 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Hierarchical Navigation: Progress Checkin" taken up [from janina]
22:01:41 [janina]
jf: Not sure where we stand
22:02:47 [janina]
janina: I was unable to get Marcus to today's call, still an action on me
22:03:01 [janina]
janina: Also, we had the discussion whether or not a level attribute was needed
22:03:32 [janina]
jf: Trying to understand our two proposals
22:03:38 [janina]
jf: One is nested list
22:03:40 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
22:03:40 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
22:03:50 [silvia]
22:03:51 [janina]
jf: And, I think Frank and Sean are proposing the level attribute
22:04:28 [janina]
sp: Don't particularly care how we solve it, we do now have the bugs I just pasted in, so we're awaiting an editor response
22:05:06 [janina]
sp: Suggest we just wait at this point
22:05:12 [janina]
sp: Philip did suggest an algorithm
22:05:57 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
22:05:57 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
22:06:02 [janina]
fo: Philip did a good job of summarizing, I'm satisfied with that
22:06:19 [janina]
fo: Question now on how this looks inside the file
22:06:50 [janina]
jf: So, if I understand ... Either scheme works, let's see what emerges as the proposal from the editor and respond?
22:07:11 [janina]
jf: I'm not concerned how we solve, just that a solution is available and articulated in the spec
22:08:01 [janina]
jf: It's important that this is in the HTML 5 spec, else I've no problem waiting.
22:08:02 [silvia]
algorithm is explained in
22:08:08 [janina]
jf: Is that where we're going?
22:08:11 [janina]
fo: Sounds right
22:09:03 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
22:09:03 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
22:09:07 [janina]
jf: Is there any indication of when we might hear from the editor?
22:09:28 [janina]
sp: Believe there's a deadline for response on bugs. We should track the bugs.
22:09:57 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
22:09:57 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
22:10:14 [janina]
jf: Noting there are no keywords on this bug, we should add a11y, a11ytf, and media
22:10:30 [janina]
jf: I'll do that
22:12:48 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
22:12:48 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
22:14:06 [janina]
jf: sp: Is the issue open?
22:14:14 [janina]
janina:#163 was closed without prejudice
22:14:35 [janina]
sp: Could file a bug suggesting this approach
22:15:19 [silvia]
22:16:43 [janina]
sp: Perhaps should be annotated with our additional info
22:16:58 [janina]
janina: Yes, that there's a way to know that additional data is available for a particular video
22:17:09 [janina]
janina: And a way to display that additional data on screen on user request
22:17:47 [janina]
jf: Last comment was June 14, but we've made progress, and we should show that in the bug tracking
22:18:07 [janina]
zakim, next item
22:18:07 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Actions Review" taken up [from janina]
22:18:32 [janina]
jf: Think we're good
22:19:07 [janina]
jf: Old action #109 on Sean, can you check?
22:19:10 [janina]
sh: OK
22:19:47 [janina]
janina: Asking if we expect agenda next week?
22:19:59 [janina]
jf: We should check in on our open issues, even if our meetings go a bit short
22:20:26 [janina]
jf: We can decide early next week, Monday?
22:20:30 [janina]
janina: sounds good
22:20:39 [janina]
jf: Any other business?
22:20:42 [silvia]
note, this is also related:
22:21:48 [janina]
jf: Perhaps should look at Bugzilla for media keyword, just to make sure we're not missing something
22:21:52 [janina]
janina: good idea
22:23:25 [janina]
jf: Perhaps we should ask Thursday's call if Bug Subteam can check for any remaining media bugs
22:23:27 [janina]
janina: good
22:23:33 [janina]
jf: Anything else?
22:23:38 [janina]
zakim, next item
22:23:38 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Other Business?" taken up [from janina]
22:23:40 [Zakim]
22:23:47 [janina]
zakim, close item 5
22:23:47 [Zakim]
agendum 5, Other Business?, closed
22:23:48 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
22:23:48 [Zakim]
6. be done [from janina]
22:23:51 [janina]
zakim, next item
22:23:51 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "be done" taken up [from janina]
22:23:55 [Zakim]
22:24:09 [Zakim]
22:24:14 [judy]
zakim, who's here?
22:24:14 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Janina, John_Foliot, Judy
22:24:15 [Zakim]
On IRC I see frankolivier, silvia, judy, Sean, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, JF, trackbot, [tm]
22:24:30 [janina]
zakim, bye
22:24:30 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Janina, John_Foliot, Sean_Hayes, silvia, frankolivier, Judy
22:24:30 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #html-a11y
22:24:37 [janina]
rrsagent, make minutes
22:24:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate janina
22:25:07 [janina]
rrsagent, make log public
22:25:13 [janina]
rrsagent, make minutes
22:25:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate janina
23:07:24 [janina]
janina has left #html-a11y