21:26:11 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y 21:26:11 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-html-a11y-irc 21:26:13 RRSAgent, make logs world 21:26:13 Zakim has joined #html-a11y 21:26:15 Zakim, this will be 2119 21:26:15 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes 21:26:16 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 21:26:16 Date: 13 July 2011 21:26:26 WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM has now started 21:26:33 +??P4 21:26:44 zakim, ??P4 is Janina 21:26:44 +Janina; got it 21:26:54 zakim, this will be 2119 21:26:54 ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes 21:27:06 rrsagent, make log public 21:27:31 Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon 21:27:31 Chair: John_Foliot 21:27:31 Scribe: Janina_Sajka 21:27:31 agenda: this 21:27:31 agenda+ W3C Web & TV Workshop http://www.w3.org/2011/09/webtv/ 21:27:32 agenda+ Paused Media: Continuing Discussion 21:27:34 agenda+ Hierarchical Navigation: Progress Checkin 21:27:36 agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open 21:27:38 agenda+ Other Business? 21:27:40 agenda+ be done 21:27:51 zakim, agenda? 21:27:51 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda: 21:27:52 1. W3C Web & TV Workshop http://www.w3.org/2011/09/webtv/ [from janina] 21:27:55 2. Paused Media: Continuing Discussion [from janina] 21:27:56 3. Hierarchical Navigation: Progress Checkin [from janina] 21:27:59 4. Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open [from janina] 21:28:00 5. Other Business? [from janina] 21:28:00 6. be done [from janina] 21:31:07 Sean has joined #html-a11y 21:33:47 zakim, who's here? 21:33:47 I notice WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM has restarted 21:33:48 On the phone I see Janina, John_Foliot, Sean_Hayes 21:33:50 On IRC I see Sean, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, JF, trackbot, [tm] 21:33:53 judy has joined #html-a11y 21:36:40 silvia has joined #html-a11y 21:38:57 +silvia 21:39:13 zakim, mute me 21:39:13 silvia should now be muted 21:39:47 zakim, who is here? 21:39:47 On the phone I see Janina, John_Foliot, Sean_Hayes, silvia (muted) 21:39:47 zakim, take up item 1 21:39:48 On IRC I see silvia, judy, Sean, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, JF, trackbot, [tm] 21:39:50 agendum 1. "W3C Web & TV Workshop http://www.w3.org/2011/09/webtv/" taken up [from janina] 21:40:45 jf: Appears there's a total of 4 days of meeting 21:41:02 jf: 2 days of the Workshop at ComCast, followed by 2 days of the W3C IG on Web & TV 21:41:10 jf: Noting major names attending 21:41:28 frankolivier has joined #html-a11y 21:41:30 jf: Asking if Sean will attend? 21:41:40 Sean: Not me, but likely someone from Microsoft. 21:42:52 +[Microsoft] 21:42:54 jf: I'll see about attending 21:43:17 jf: Thinking Chaas may attend 21:43:37 s/Chaas/Chaals 21:43:38 zakim, next item 21:43:38 agendum 2. "Paused Media: Continuing Discussion" taken up [from janina] 21:44:31 jf: ARIA-Describedby being proposed for several similar situations 21:44:53 jf; Had extended conversation about the possibilities during Text Subteam past Monday 21:45:15 jf: Only way is to render on screen 21:45:39 janina: But, that can be the result of a user action 21:45:54 jf: So, we need a scheme that can: 21:46:06 jf: A, Indicate there's more data -- discoverability 21:46:24 jf: B: Render that additional data on screen on user action --- perhaps right click? 21:46:28 http://blog.ginader.de/dev/jquery/longdesc/examples/webaim/index.php 21:47:06 jf: jf: This example renders an icon in the corner, clicking on it pulls descript into an iframe 21:47:14 zakim, [Microsoft] is frankolivier 21:47:14 +frankolivier; got it 21:47:26 jf: This isn't the answer for us, but it illustrates the kind of thing we need 21:48:05 zakim, sho's here? 21:48:05 I don't understand your question, janina. 21:48:12 zakim, who's here? 21:48:12 On the phone I see Janina, John_Foliot, Sean_Hayes, silvia (muted), frankolivier 21:48:15 On IRC I see frankolivier, silvia, judy, Sean, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, JF, trackbot, [tm] 21:49:13 janina: So, going back to our old ARIA-Describedby solution, 21:49:24 janina: Can we use something like that, perhaps via right-mouse click? 21:49:59 jf: We need a way to make the availability of that info discoverable. Second, we need a way for users to choose to consume that info. 21:50:53 jf: Whatever the solution, we need a rich solution, we need to support markup in the content 21:51:07 jf: So, it's very similar to the longdesc situation 21:51:30 jf: So, notmeaning to put anyone on the spot, Frank any thoughts? 21:51:36 fo: No thought yet 21:51:43 I maintain to think that the solution is a kind of shadow dom 21:51:46 +Judy 21:53:04 http://glazkov.com/2011/01/14/what-the-heck-is-shadow-dom/ <- explains the feature nicely 21:53:43 jb: Noting some good discussions with W3C team around these issues recently 21:55:38 jf: Noting the note from Dmitri posted by Silvia 21:55:41 zakim, unmute me 21:55:41 silvia should no longer be muted 21:55:43 jf: Asking for a quick recap 21:55:50 "Welcome to the twilight DOM — a chunk of document that’s accessible by traversal but not rendered on the page." 21:56:10 sp: Think it explains exactly what we want 21:56:33 sp: He's doing it through js, but I'm pretty sure we can do it in the browser 21:57:18 sp: Believe our ARIA-Describedby strategy will eventually work 21:57:40 sp: But, this isn't a problem with the spec, the problem is implementation 21:58:58 janina: The spec piece is the markup we're proposing, if we're confident browsers can make that discoverable and show it on screen when users ask for it, we're good 21:59:09 jf: The key is that it needs to become text on screen 21:59:31 sp: But screen readers are already processing things that are not on screen 22:00:03 sp: Think the same mechanism should work here 22:00:15 sp: Don't think we can pinpoint any issues until we have implementations to look at 22:00:23 zakim, mute me 22:00:23 silvia should now be muted 22:01:17 jf: Noting again the similarities with longdesc and noting my long post about to go to list about that, inviting people's feedback 22:01:20 zkim, next item 22:01:29 zakim, next item 22:01:29 agendum 3. "Hierarchical Navigation: Progress Checkin" taken up [from janina] 22:01:41 jf: Not sure where we stand 22:02:47 janina: I was unable to get Marcus to today's call, still an action on me 22:03:01 janina: Also, we had the discussion whether or not a level attribute was needed 22:03:32 jf: Trying to understand our two proposals 22:03:38 jf: One is nested list 22:03:40 zakim, unmute me 22:03:40 silvia should no longer be muted 22:03:50 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13184 22:03:51 jf: And, I think Frank and Sean are proposing the level attribute 22:04:28 sp: Don't particularly care how we solve it, we do now have the bugs I just pasted in, so we're awaiting an editor response 22:05:06 sp: Suggest we just wait at this point 22:05:12 sp: Philip did suggest an algorithm 22:05:57 zakim, mute me 22:05:57 silvia should now be muted 22:06:02 fo: Philip did a good job of summarizing, I'm satisfied with that 22:06:19 fo: Question now on how this looks inside the file 22:06:50 jf: So, if I understand ... Either scheme works, let's see what emerges as the proposal from the editor and respond? 22:07:11 jf: I'm not concerned how we solve, just that a solution is available and articulated in the spec 22:08:01 jf: It's important that this is in the HTML 5 spec, else I've no problem waiting. 22:08:02 algorithm is explained in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Jul/0119.html 22:08:08 jf: Is that where we're going? 22:08:11 fo: Sounds right 22:09:03 zakim, unmute me 22:09:03 silvia should no longer be muted 22:09:07 jf: Is there any indication of when we might hear from the editor? 22:09:28 sp: Believe there's a deadline for response on bugs. We should track the bugs. 22:09:57 zakim, mute me 22:09:57 silvia should now be muted 22:10:14 jf: Noting there are no keywords on this bug, we should add a11y, a11ytf, and media 22:10:30 jf: I'll do that 22:12:48 zakim, unmute me 22:12:48 silvia should no longer be muted 22:14:06 jf: sp: Is the issue open? 22:14:14 janina:#163 was closed without prejudice 22:14:35 sp: Could file a bug suggesting this approach 22:15:19 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12794 22:16:43 sp: Perhaps should be annotated with our additional info 22:16:58 janina: Yes, that there's a way to know that additional data is available for a particular video 22:17:09 janina: And a way to display that additional data on screen on user request 22:17:47 jf: Last comment was June 14, but we've made progress, and we should show that in the bug tracking 22:18:07 zakim, next item 22:18:07 agendum 4. "Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open" taken up [from janina] 22:18:32 jf: Think we're good 22:19:07 jf: Old action #109 on Sean, can you check? 22:19:10 sh: OK 22:19:47 janina: Asking if we expect agenda next week? 22:19:59 jf: We should check in on our open issues, even if our meetings go a bit short 22:20:26 jf: We can decide early next week, Monday? 22:20:30 janina: sounds good 22:20:39 jf: Any other business? 22:20:42 note, this is also related: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12228 22:21:48 jf: Perhaps should look at Bugzilla for media keyword, just to make sure we're not missing something 22:21:52 janina: good idea 22:23:25 jf: Perhaps we should ask Thursday's call if Bug Subteam can check for any remaining media bugs 22:23:27 janina: good 22:23:33 jf: Anything else? 22:23:38 zakim, next item 22:23:38 agendum 5. "Other Business?" taken up [from janina] 22:23:40 -silvia 22:23:47 zakim, close item 5 22:23:47 agendum 5, Other Business?, closed 22:23:48 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 22:23:48 6. be done [from janina] 22:23:51 zakim, next item 22:23:51 agendum 6. "be done" taken up [from janina] 22:23:55 -Sean_Hayes 22:24:09 -frankolivier 22:24:14 zakim, who's here? 22:24:14 On the phone I see Janina, John_Foliot, Judy 22:24:15 On IRC I see frankolivier, silvia, judy, Sean, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, JF, trackbot, [tm] 22:24:30 zakim, bye 22:24:30 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Janina, John_Foliot, Sean_Hayes, silvia, frankolivier, Judy 22:24:30 Zakim has left #html-a11y 22:24:37 rrsagent, make minutes 22:24:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-html-a11y-minutes.html janina 22:25:07 rrsagent, make log public 22:25:13 rrsagent, make minutes 22:25:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-html-a11y-minutes.html janina 23:07:24 janina has left #html-a11y