13:27:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:27:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-dap-irc
13:27:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:27:48 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
13:27:50 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
13:27:50 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 33 minutes
13:27:51 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
13:27:51 <trackbot> Date: 13 July 2011
13:28:15 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jul/0069.html
13:28:57 <fjh> Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:29:05 <fjh> Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:29:23 <fjh> Scribe: Josh_Soref
13:56:54 <Marcos> Marcos has left #dap
13:59:14 <SungOk_You> SungOk_You has joined #dap
13:59:35 <cmarc> cmarc has joined #dap
13:59:35 <fjh> zakim, code?
13:59:35 <Zakim> the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), fjh
13:59:44 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:59:49 <wonsuk> wonsuk has joined #dap
13:59:51 <Zakim> +??P4
13:59:52 <cmarc> Present+ Cecile_Marc
13:59:57 <fjh> zakim, ?? is me
13:59:57 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
14:00:23 <Zakim> +??P6
14:00:24 <dom> Zakim, ??P6 is me
14:00:24 <Zakim> +dom; got it
14:00:32 <Zakim> +??P10
14:00:33 <dom> Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:00:51 <SungOk_You> Present+ SungOk_You
14:00:56 <fjh> Regrets+ Ernesto_Jimenez
14:01:00 <wonsuk> Present+ Wonsuk_Lee
14:01:03 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:01:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, dom, ??P10
14:01:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see wonsuk, cmarc, SungOk_You, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, fjh, richt, timeless, lgombos, ilkka, ingmar, dom, trackbot
14:01:08 <Zakim> + +33.4.76.61.aaaa
14:01:10 <SungOk_You> Zakim, ??P10 is me
14:01:11 <Zakim> +SungOk_You; got it
14:01:30 <dom> Zakim, aaaa is cmarc
14:01:30 <Zakim> +cmarc; got it
14:01:36 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:01:36 <Zakim> + +82.31.27.9.aabb
14:01:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, dom, SungOk_You, cmarc, +82.31.27.9.aabb
14:01:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see wonsuk, cmarc, SungOk_You, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, fjh, richt, timeless, lgombos, ilkka, ingmar, dom, trackbot
14:01:56 <Zakim> +??P2
14:02:08 <Dzung_Tran> Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
14:02:10 <wonsuk> zakim, +82.31.27.9.aabb is me
14:02:10 <Zakim> +wonsuk; got it
14:02:13 <Dzung_Tran> Present+ Dzung_Tran
14:02:15 <fjh> zakim aabb is eduardo
14:02:21 <fjh> zakim, aabb is eduardo
14:02:29 <Zakim> sorry, fjh, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
14:02:33 <darobin> isn't eduardo regrets?
14:02:45 <darobin> Zakim, ??P2 is me
14:02:53 <Zakim> +darobin; got it
14:03:05 <darobin> SungOk_You
14:03:26 <Cathy> Cathy has joined #dap
14:03:31 <dom> Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:03:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, dom, SungOk_You, cmarc, wonsuk, darobin
14:04:19 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:04:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, dom, SungOk_You, cmarc, wonsuk, darobin
14:04:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see Cathy, Dzung_Tran, wonsuk, cmarc, SungOk_You, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, fjh, richt, timeless, lgombos, ilkka, ingmar, dom, trackbot
14:05:03 <Zakim> +Cathy
14:05:36 <Zakim> + +1.425.214.aacc
14:05:42 <Kihong_Kwon> Kihong_Kwon has joined #dap
14:05:46 <bryan> bryan has joined #dap
14:05:54 <Cathy> Present+ Cathy_Chan
14:06:47 <Kihong_Kwon> Present+ Kihong_Kwon
14:06:58 <Dong-Young_Lee> Dong-Young_Lee has joined #dap
14:07:00 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:07:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, dom, SungOk_You, cmarc, wonsuk, darobin, Cathy, +1.425.214.aacc
14:07:03 <Zakim> On IRC I see Dong-Young_Lee, bryan, Kihong_Kwon, Cathy, Dzung_Tran, wonsuk, cmarc, SungOk_You, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, fjh, richt, timeless, lgombos, ilkka, ingmar, dom, trackbot
14:07:14 <fjh> zakim, aacc is bryan
14:07:14 <Zakim> +bryan; got it
14:07:17 <Dong-Young_Lee> Present+ Dong-Young_Lee
14:07:21 <fjh> ScribeNick: bryan
14:07:26 <fjh> Topic: Administrative
14:07:45 <fjh> discontinuing UK, FR dial-in zakim numbers
14:07:45 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2011Jul/0000.html
14:08:28 <bryan> Media Annotations group is going to last call with Media Annotation Resources and Webapps with Web API also
14:08:56 <Zakim> +richt
14:09:00 <fjh> s/Web API/WebIDL
14:09:14 <bryan> bryan: I will look for internal reviewers on media annotation
14:09:37 <darobin> http://www.w3.org/mid/4E1C8BD6.8020607@w3.org -> MAWG Media Annotation API LC
14:09:45 <bryan> Topic: Minutes from July 6 approval
14:09:47 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jul/att-0062/minutes-2011-07-06.html
14:09:47 <fjh> proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 6 July 2011 are approved
14:09:51 <Zakim> +??P17
14:09:54 <darobin> http://www.w3.org/mid/4E1C72C8.9030402@nokia.com -> Web IDL LC
14:10:07 <bryan> Topic: F2F
14:11:08 <fjh> if you plan to use a car please indicate to Cecile
14:11:11 <fjh> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/F2F_Agenda_19%2c_20%2c_21_July_2011%2c_Paris
14:12:25 <bryan> fjh: Any comments or concerns to the agenda?
14:12:47 <Kangchan> Kangchan has joined #dap
14:13:57 <bryan> fjh: Web and TV - plan to introduce by Francois is TBD
14:15:39 <bryan> fjh: dial-in will be provided
14:16:16 <bryan> fjh: APIs not progressing will be moved to Day 3
14:17:55 <bryan> topic: battery
14:18:20 <dom> (we have one open issue ISSUE-112)
14:18:22 <dom> ISSUE-112?
14:18:22 <trackbot> ISSUE-112 -- Do we need to give an estimated time remaining indication with battery events? -- open
14:18:22 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/112
14:18:33 <dom> q+ to mention discussion around events firing
14:18:39 <fjh> q-
14:18:45 <bryan> darobin: need to review it before last call
14:19:10 <Kihong_Kwon> Kihong_Kwon has joined #dap
14:19:42 <fjh> diiscovery proposal -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jul/0073.html
14:20:01 <fjh> event firing issue -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jul/0070.html
14:20:03 <bryan> dom: device orientation API that inspired the battery API has a discussion re event firing, the battery API may need to change as a result
14:20:24 <Zakim> +jsoref
14:20:28 <bryan> darobin: had we removed mention of immediate (firing)
14:20:35 <dom> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/system-info/battery-status.html#the-batterystatus---------event
14:20:42 <darobin> "When an event listener is registered with the event type batterystatus, then the user agent must retrieve the relevant information and dispatch a BatteryStatusEvent event asynchronously as defined in [DOM-LEVEL-3-EVENTS]. "
14:20:48 <bryan> darobin: confirms immediate was removed
14:20:59 <timeless> Present+ Josh_Soref
14:21:19 <fjh> concern with potential side effects
14:21:21 <bryan> dom: invoking add event listener should not have side effects 
14:21:27 <dom> ISSUE: addEventListener in Battery Status has side effects
14:21:27 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-113 - AddEventListener in Battery Status has side effects ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/113/edit .
14:21:46 <dom> ISSUE-113: see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jul/0070.html
14:21:46 <trackbot> ISSUE-113 AddEventListener in Battery Status has side effects notes added
14:22:13 <bryan> darobin: to continue discussing at the F2F and make decision on last call then
14:22:13 <Kangchan> Present+ Kangchan_Lee
14:22:31 <bryan> topic: contacts
14:22:41 <bryan> fjh: where are we
14:22:55 <bryan> darobin: at the F2F will review last call comments
14:23:05 <timeless> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:23:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-dap-minutes.html timeless
14:23:23 <bryan> darobin: we can go to CR when we have addressed all comments
14:23:41 <bryan> fjh: should consider vacations
14:24:25 <bryan> darobin: getting close to end of july with one-week review, effectively Sept before transition
14:24:32 <timeless> RRSAgent, make minutes public
14:24:32 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', timeless.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:24:50 <bryan> richt: need more implementations and test suites, may need to go back to WD?
14:25:05 <bryan> fjh: yes, that happens
14:25:10 <dom> [we already have the start of a test suite, fwiw http://w3c-test.org/dap/contacts/tests/ ]
14:25:17 <timeless> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:25:24 <timeless> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:25:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-dap-minutes.html timeless
14:25:44 <bryan> darobin: testing is also planned to discussion at F2F
14:26:08 <bryan> topic: other APIs
14:26:31 <timeless> s/to/for/
14:26:45 <dom> (Robin is an editor!)
14:26:45 <bryan> topic: network information
14:28:03 <bryan> fjh: can we resolve the ethernet/usb issue
14:29:13 <dom> I think Josh's feedback is close to the feedback we got from Jo, to which our response is still pending (cf ACTION-411)
14:29:18 <dom> ACTION-411?
14:29:18 <trackbot> ACTION-411 -- Robin Berjon to reply to Jo about NetInfo -- due 2011-06-15 -- OPEN
14:29:18 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/411
14:29:29 <bryan> timeless: knowing the wire interface is not useful
14:29:46 <richt> q+
14:29:49 <dom> q-
14:31:08 <bryan> dom: we should document the discussion and resolution
14:31:22 <bryan> timeless: agree
14:31:31 <dom> s/discussion and resolution/discussion and resolution about the level of information that can be given in the network info API/
14:32:10 <fjh> q?
14:32:15 <dom> ack ri
14:32:17 <fjh> ack richt
14:33:04 <bryan> richt: have an implementation of the API, for Android browser. changes cost to implementations and need to be factored into the decision
14:33:30 <bryan> timeless: would be good to know if 4G is ever returned
14:34:57 <bryan> dom: suggest timeless reach out to google for their input
14:35:01 <richt> as I mentioned last week if we can mark up emails with [contacts] [netinfo] etc then it would be easier for other (busy) people to participate. Parsing all the emails received takes time.
14:35:11 <richt> ...or setup sub-groups.
14:35:14 <bryan> timeless: will make an effort to reach out
14:35:58 <darobin> [richt: make a proposal to the list]
14:37:51 <bryan> dom: re proposal to markup subject line on emails, the new charter will enable task forces (with separate mailing lists), and we can also improve email usage in the way suggested - new email lists have a management overhead 
14:38:08 <bryan> bryan: I support use of tags over additional lists
14:38:27 <timeless> q+ to note that having to subscribe to lots of mailing lists or unsubscribe is painful
14:38:34 <fjh> ack timeless
14:38:34 <Zakim> timeless, you wanted to note that having to subscribe to lots of mailing lists or unsubscribe is painful
14:38:51 <richt> '500 emails a day' was conservative. But I was assuming you read them all ;)
14:39:28 <bryan> timeless: having to subscribe/unsubscribe is painful - tags are better
14:40:01 <bryan> fjh: tags are probably easier
14:40:17 <bryan> dom: open to many options but we need people to express themselves
14:41:06 <richt> Should be simple enough to add tags to new email threads. Really helps to focus in on particular subjects at a time.
14:41:17 <richt> It's an informal proposal.
14:41:30 <bryan> dom: webapps uses tags and also has distinct lists
14:41:41 <dom> let's maybe start with tagging subjects; could the chairs suggest this to the list?
14:41:59 <richt> dom, that's what I mean at [contacts] in the subject line.
14:42:11 <bryan> darobin: should continue on the list
14:42:12 <richt> It shouldn't need to much discussion. People either do it or we don't.
14:42:20 <wonsuk> +1 for tag, even this couldnot be perfect
14:42:31 <bryan> +1
14:42:45 <Dzung_Tran> +1
14:42:52 <timeless> s/this couldnot/though it will not/
14:43:24 <bryan> someone suggest the tags to use
14:43:36 <bryan> fjh: AOB?
14:44:02 <bryan> yes
14:45:03 <bryan> fjh: no call the week after the F2F
14:45:07 <Zakim> -darobin
14:45:09 <Zakim> -bryan
14:45:11 <Zakim> -SungOk_You
14:45:13 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:45:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:45:13 <Zakim> -richt
14:45:17 <Zakim> -Cathy
14:45:18 <bryan> bryan has left #dap
14:45:18 <Zakim> -jsoref
14:45:18 <Zakim> -dom
14:45:20 <Zakim> -cmarc
14:45:21 <Zakim> -wonsuk
14:45:27 <Zakim> -??P17
14:45:28 <Zakim> -fjh
14:45:28 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
14:45:30 <Zakim> Attendees were fjh, dom, +33.4.76.61.aaaa, SungOk_You, cmarc, wonsuk, darobin, Cathy, +1.425.214.aacc, bryan, richt, jsoref
14:46:00 <fjh> Present+ Bryan_Sullivan
14:46:17 <fjh> Present+ Rich_Tibbett
14:46:42 <fjh> Scribe: Bryan_Sullivan
14:46:51 <fjh> Scribe- Josh_Soref
14:46:55 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:46:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:47:21 <fjh> s/zakim aabb is eduardo//
14:48:25 <fjh> s/isn't eduardo regrets?//
14:49:00 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:49:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:49:34 <fjh> s/SungOk_You//
14:50:23 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:50:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:50:39 <fjh_> fjh_ has joined #dap
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17:04:06 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dap