IRC log of dap on 2011-07-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:27:46 [RRSAgent]
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13:27:46 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-dap-irc
13:27:48 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:27:48 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #dap
13:27:50 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DAP
13:27:50 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 33 minutes
13:27:51 [trackbot]
Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
13:27:51 [trackbot]
Date: 13 July 2011
13:28:15 [fjh]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jul/0069.html
13:28:57 [fjh]
Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:29:05 [fjh]
Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:29:23 [fjh]
Scribe: Josh_Soref
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13:59:14 [SungOk_You]
SungOk_You has joined #dap
13:59:35 [cmarc]
cmarc has joined #dap
13:59:35 [fjh]
zakim, code?
13:59:35 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), fjh
13:59:44 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:59:49 [wonsuk]
wonsuk has joined #dap
13:59:51 [Zakim]
+??P4
13:59:52 [cmarc]
Present+ Cecile_Marc
13:59:57 [fjh]
zakim, ?? is me
13:59:57 [Zakim]
+fjh; got it
14:00:23 [Zakim]
+??P6
14:00:24 [dom]
Zakim, ??P6 is me
14:00:24 [Zakim]
+dom; got it
14:00:32 [Zakim]
+??P10
14:00:33 [dom]
Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:00:51 [SungOk_You]
Present+ SungOk_You
14:00:56 [fjh]
Regrets+ Ernesto_Jimenez
14:01:00 [wonsuk]
Present+ Wonsuk_Lee
14:01:03 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:01:03 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh, dom, ??P10
14:01:04 [Zakim]
On IRC I see wonsuk, cmarc, SungOk_You, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, fjh, richt, timeless, lgombos, ilkka, ingmar, dom, trackbot
14:01:08 [Zakim]
+ +33.4.76.61.aaaa
14:01:10 [SungOk_You]
Zakim, ??P10 is me
14:01:11 [Zakim]
+SungOk_You; got it
14:01:30 [dom]
Zakim, aaaa is cmarc
14:01:30 [Zakim]
+cmarc; got it
14:01:36 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:01:36 [Zakim]
+ +82.31.27.9.aabb
14:01:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh, dom, SungOk_You, cmarc, +82.31.27.9.aabb
14:01:42 [Zakim]
On IRC I see wonsuk, cmarc, SungOk_You, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, fjh, richt, timeless, lgombos, ilkka, ingmar, dom, trackbot
14:01:56 [Zakim]
+??P2
14:02:08 [Dzung_Tran]
Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
14:02:10 [wonsuk]
zakim, +82.31.27.9.aabb is me
14:02:10 [Zakim]
+wonsuk; got it
14:02:13 [Dzung_Tran]
Present+ Dzung_Tran
14:02:15 [fjh]
zakim aabb is eduardo
14:02:21 [fjh]
zakim, aabb is eduardo
14:02:29 [Zakim]
sorry, fjh, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
14:02:33 [darobin]
isn't eduardo regrets?
14:02:45 [darobin]
Zakim, ??P2 is me
14:02:53 [Zakim]
+darobin; got it
14:03:05 [darobin]
SungOk_You
14:03:26 [Cathy]
Cathy has joined #dap
14:03:31 [dom]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:03:31 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh, dom, SungOk_You, cmarc, wonsuk, darobin
14:04:19 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:04:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh, dom, SungOk_You, cmarc, wonsuk, darobin
14:04:20 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Cathy, Dzung_Tran, wonsuk, cmarc, SungOk_You, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, fjh, richt, timeless, lgombos, ilkka, ingmar, dom, trackbot
14:05:03 [Zakim]
+Cathy
14:05:36 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.214.aacc
14:05:42 [Kihong_Kwon]
Kihong_Kwon has joined #dap
14:05:46 [bryan]
bryan has joined #dap
14:05:54 [Cathy]
Present+ Cathy_Chan
14:06:47 [Kihong_Kwon]
Present+ Kihong_Kwon
14:06:58 [Dong-Young_Lee]
Dong-Young_Lee has joined #dap
14:07:00 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:07:00 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh, dom, SungOk_You, cmarc, wonsuk, darobin, Cathy, +1.425.214.aacc
14:07:03 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Dong-Young_Lee, bryan, Kihong_Kwon, Cathy, Dzung_Tran, wonsuk, cmarc, SungOk_You, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, fjh, richt, timeless, lgombos, ilkka, ingmar, dom, trackbot
14:07:14 [fjh]
zakim, aacc is bryan
14:07:14 [Zakim]
+bryan; got it
14:07:17 [Dong-Young_Lee]
Present+ Dong-Young_Lee
14:07:21 [fjh]
ScribeNick: bryan
14:07:26 [fjh]
Topic: Administrative
14:07:45 [fjh]
discontinuing UK, FR dial-in zakim numbers
14:07:45 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2011Jul/0000.html
14:08:28 [bryan]
Media Annotations group is going to last call with Media Annotation Resources and Webapps with Web API also
14:08:56 [Zakim]
+richt
14:09:00 [fjh]
s/Web API/WebIDL
14:09:14 [bryan]
bryan: I will look for internal reviewers on media annotation
14:09:37 [darobin]
http://www.w3.org/mid/4E1C8BD6.8020607@w3.org -> MAWG Media Annotation API LC
14:09:45 [bryan]
Topic: Minutes from July 6 approval
14:09:47 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jul/att-0062/minutes-2011-07-06.html
14:09:47 [fjh]
proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 6 July 2011 are approved
14:09:51 [Zakim]
+??P17
14:09:54 [darobin]
http://www.w3.org/mid/4E1C72C8.9030402@nokia.com -> Web IDL LC
14:10:07 [bryan]
Topic: F2F
14:11:08 [fjh]
if you plan to use a car please indicate to Cecile
14:11:11 [fjh]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/F2F_Agenda_19%2c_20%2c_21_July_2011%2c_Paris
14:12:25 [bryan]
fjh: Any comments or concerns to the agenda?
14:12:47 [Kangchan]
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14:13:57 [bryan]
fjh: Web and TV - plan to introduce by Francois is TBD
14:15:39 [bryan]
fjh: dial-in will be provided
14:16:16 [bryan]
fjh: APIs not progressing will be moved to Day 3
14:17:55 [bryan]
topic: battery
14:18:20 [dom]
(we have one open issue ISSUE-112)
14:18:22 [dom]
ISSUE-112?
14:18:22 [trackbot]
ISSUE-112 -- Do we need to give an estimated time remaining indication with battery events? -- open
14:18:22 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/112
14:18:33 [dom]
q+ to mention discussion around events firing
14:18:39 [fjh]
q-
14:18:45 [bryan]
darobin: need to review it before last call
14:19:10 [Kihong_Kwon]
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14:19:42 [fjh]
diiscovery proposal -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jul/0073.html
14:20:01 [fjh]
event firing issue -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jul/0070.html
14:20:03 [bryan]
dom: device orientation API that inspired the battery API has a discussion re event firing, the battery API may need to change as a result
14:20:24 [Zakim]
+jsoref
14:20:28 [bryan]
darobin: had we removed mention of immediate (firing)
14:20:35 [dom]
http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/system-info/battery-status.html#the-batterystatus---------event
14:20:42 [darobin]
"When an event listener is registered with the event type batterystatus, then the user agent must retrieve the relevant information and dispatch a BatteryStatusEvent event asynchronously as defined in [DOM-LEVEL-3-EVENTS]. "
14:20:48 [bryan]
darobin: confirms immediate was removed
14:20:59 [timeless]
Present+ Josh_Soref
14:21:19 [fjh]
concern with potential side effects
14:21:21 [bryan]
dom: invoking add event listener should not have side effects
14:21:27 [dom]
ISSUE: addEventListener in Battery Status has side effects
14:21:27 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-113 - AddEventListener in Battery Status has side effects ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/113/edit .
14:21:46 [dom]
ISSUE-113: see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jul/0070.html
14:21:46 [trackbot]
ISSUE-113 AddEventListener in Battery Status has side effects notes added
14:22:13 [bryan]
darobin: to continue discussing at the F2F and make decision on last call then
14:22:13 [Kangchan]
Present+ Kangchan_Lee
14:22:31 [bryan]
topic: contacts
14:22:41 [bryan]
fjh: where are we
14:22:55 [bryan]
darobin: at the F2F will review last call comments
14:23:05 [timeless]
RRSAgent, make minutes
14:23:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-dap-minutes.html timeless
14:23:23 [bryan]
darobin: we can go to CR when we have addressed all comments
14:23:41 [bryan]
fjh: should consider vacations
14:24:25 [bryan]
darobin: getting close to end of july with one-week review, effectively Sept before transition
14:24:32 [timeless]
RRSAgent, make minutes public
14:24:32 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', timeless. Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:24:50 [bryan]
richt: need more implementations and test suites, may need to go back to WD?
14:25:05 [bryan]
fjh: yes, that happens
14:25:10 [dom]
[we already have the start of a test suite, fwiw http://w3c-test.org/dap/contacts/tests/ ]
14:25:17 [timeless]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:25:24 [timeless]
RRSAgent, make minutes
14:25:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-dap-minutes.html timeless
14:25:44 [bryan]
darobin: testing is also planned to discussion at F2F
14:26:08 [bryan]
topic: other APIs
14:26:31 [timeless]
s/to/for/
14:26:45 [dom]
(Robin is an editor!)
14:26:45 [bryan]
topic: network information
14:28:03 [bryan]
fjh: can we resolve the ethernet/usb issue
14:29:13 [dom]
I think Josh's feedback is close to the feedback we got from Jo, to which our response is still pending (cf ACTION-411)
14:29:18 [dom]
ACTION-411?
14:29:18 [trackbot]
ACTION-411 -- Robin Berjon to reply to Jo about NetInfo -- due 2011-06-15 -- OPEN
14:29:18 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/411
14:29:29 [bryan]
timeless: knowing the wire interface is not useful
14:29:46 [richt]
q+
14:29:49 [dom]
q-
14:31:08 [bryan]
dom: we should document the discussion and resolution
14:31:22 [bryan]
timeless: agree
14:31:31 [dom]
s/discussion and resolution/discussion and resolution about the level of information that can be given in the network info API/
14:32:10 [fjh]
q?
14:32:15 [dom]
ack ri
14:32:17 [fjh]
ack richt
14:33:04 [bryan]
richt: have an implementation of the API, for Android browser. changes cost to implementations and need to be factored into the decision
14:33:30 [bryan]
timeless: would be good to know if 4G is ever returned
14:34:57 [bryan]
dom: suggest timeless reach out to google for their input
14:35:01 [richt]
as I mentioned last week if we can mark up emails with [contacts] [netinfo] etc then it would be easier for other (busy) people to participate. Parsing all the emails received takes time.
14:35:11 [richt]
...or setup sub-groups.
14:35:14 [bryan]
timeless: will make an effort to reach out
14:35:58 [darobin]
[richt: make a proposal to the list]
14:37:51 [bryan]
dom: re proposal to markup subject line on emails, the new charter will enable task forces (with separate mailing lists), and we can also improve email usage in the way suggested - new email lists have a management overhead
14:38:08 [bryan]
bryan: I support use of tags over additional lists
14:38:27 [timeless]
q+ to note that having to subscribe to lots of mailing lists or unsubscribe is painful
14:38:34 [fjh]
ack timeless
14:38:34 [Zakim]
timeless, you wanted to note that having to subscribe to lots of mailing lists or unsubscribe is painful
14:38:51 [richt]
'500 emails a day' was conservative. But I was assuming you read them all ;)
14:39:28 [bryan]
timeless: having to subscribe/unsubscribe is painful - tags are better
14:40:01 [bryan]
fjh: tags are probably easier
14:40:17 [bryan]
dom: open to many options but we need people to express themselves
14:41:06 [richt]
Should be simple enough to add tags to new email threads. Really helps to focus in on particular subjects at a time.
14:41:17 [richt]
It's an informal proposal.
14:41:30 [bryan]
dom: webapps uses tags and also has distinct lists
14:41:41 [dom]
let's maybe start with tagging subjects; could the chairs suggest this to the list?
14:41:59 [richt]
dom, that's what I mean at [contacts] in the subject line.
14:42:11 [bryan]
darobin: should continue on the list
14:42:12 [richt]
It shouldn't need to much discussion. People either do it or we don't.
14:42:20 [wonsuk]
+1 for tag, even this couldnot be perfect
14:42:31 [bryan]
+1
14:42:45 [Dzung_Tran]
+1
14:42:52 [timeless]
s/this couldnot/though it will not/
14:43:24 [bryan]
someone suggest the tags to use
14:43:36 [bryan]
fjh: AOB?
14:44:02 [bryan]
yes
14:45:03 [bryan]
fjh: no call the week after the F2F
14:45:07 [Zakim]
-darobin
14:45:09 [Zakim]
-bryan
14:45:11 [Zakim]
-SungOk_You
14:45:13 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:45:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:45:13 [Zakim]
-richt
14:45:17 [Zakim]
-Cathy
14:45:18 [bryan]
bryan has left #dap
14:45:18 [Zakim]
-jsoref
14:45:18 [Zakim]
-dom
14:45:20 [Zakim]
-cmarc
14:45:21 [Zakim]
-wonsuk
14:45:27 [Zakim]
-??P17
14:45:28 [Zakim]
-fjh
14:45:28 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
14:45:30 [Zakim]
Attendees were fjh, dom, +33.4.76.61.aaaa, SungOk_You, cmarc, wonsuk, darobin, Cathy, +1.425.214.aacc, bryan, richt, jsoref
14:46:00 [fjh]
Present+ Bryan_Sullivan
14:46:17 [fjh]
Present+ Rich_Tibbett
14:46:42 [fjh]
Scribe: Bryan_Sullivan
14:46:51 [fjh]
Scribe- Josh_Soref
14:46:55 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:46:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:47:21 [fjh]
s/zakim aabb is eduardo//
14:48:25 [fjh]
s/isn't eduardo regrets?//
14:49:00 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:49:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:49:34 [fjh]
s/SungOk_You//
14:50:23 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:50:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/13-dap-minutes.html fjh
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15:53:51 [timeless]
timeless has joined #dap
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