14:59:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:59:41 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-html-a11y-irc
14:59:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:59:43 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
14:59:45 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
14:59:45 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:46 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:59:46 <trackbot> Date: 07 July 2011
15:00:02 <janina> zakim, who's here?
15:00:09 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has not yet started, janina
15:00:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Marco_Ranon, eric_carlson, MikeSmith, davidb, jasabella, MichaelC, janina, trackbot, [tm]
15:00:34 <MichaelC> zakim, this is 2119
15:00:38 <MichaelC> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:00:47 <Zakim> ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM
15:00:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P33, Cynthia_Shelly, Eric_Carlson, John_Foliot, Michael_Cooper
15:01:03 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P33 is Janina_Sajka
15:01:05 <janina> zakim, ??P33 is Janina
15:01:35 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:01:37 <Zakim> I already had ??P33 as Janina_Sajka, janina
15:01:56 <Zakim> +Lynn_Holdsworth
15:02:10 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Jul/0042.html
15:02:18 <n_Holdsworth> n_Holdsworth has joined #html-a11y
15:02:20 <MichaelC> regrets: Laura_Carlson, Joshue_O'Connor
15:02:37 <kliehm> kliehm has joined #html-a11y
15:02:48 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y
15:03:48 <Lynn_Holdsworth> Lynn_Holdsworth has joined #html-a11y
15:04:19 <Zakim> + +49.179.103.aaaa
15:04:24 <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike
15:05:03 <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
15:05:07 <Zakim> +Mike
15:05:07 <MichaelC> zakim, aaaa is Martin_Kliehm
15:05:44 <Zakim> sorry, MichaelC, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
15:06:27 <kliehm> scribe: Martin_kliehm
15:06:32 <kliehm> scribenic: kliehm
15:06:34 <Zakim> +??P74
15:06:44 <Marco_Ranon> zakim, ??P74
15:06:47 <MikeSmith> agenda+ http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Category:Table_Summary
15:06:52 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P74 is Marco_Ranon
15:06:56 <Marco_Ranon> zakim, mute me
15:07:02 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P74', Marco_Ranon
15:07:08 <MichaelC> scribeNick: kliehm
15:07:12 <Zakim> +Marco_Ranon; got it
15:07:20 <Zakim> Marco_Ranon should now be muted
15:07:26 <Zakim> +Paul_Cotton
15:07:38 <kliehm> zakim, move to next agendum
15:07:52 <Zakim> agendum 1. "http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Category:Table_Summary" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:09:49 <kliehm> MS: Josh did some work on that topic, he added sections on the Wiki.
15:10:52 <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Spec_Review
15:11:00 <kliehm> MC: There are two sections with new content, at least 25 sections to go.
15:11:11 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
15:11:29 <Zakim> +??P26
15:11:34 <MikeSmith> q?
15:11:51 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P26 is Janina_Sajka
15:11:51 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:12:07 <Joshue> Joshue has joined #html-a11y
15:12:29 <kliehm> MS: Please take a look at the wiki page now, if you are able to provide feedback on your review assignments, please raise your hand.
15:15:34 <kliehm> MS: The section "Editing APIs" could be worth to prioritize, also "Focus" and "Activation". They are are rather small, but there are possibly issues on specific platforms.
15:15:53 <kliehm> CS: I believe I'm sign-up for some of those.
15:16:45 <kliehm> MS: Gez hat looked at drag and drop. Hixie has made considerable changes. Gez has looked at that and said his concerns were met, unless there were changes again.
15:18:57 <kliehm> MS(JS: Deadline for filing bugs against LC is August 1. Alerting the mailing list would make sense. A multi-hour teleconference by the end of July would be necessary.
15:19:25 <kliehm> s/MS(JS/MS\/JS/
15:19:42 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
15:19:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
15:20:09 <kliehm> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
15:20:13 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
15:20:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
15:20:34 <MikeSmith> q?
15:21:00 <kliehm> MC: I'll set up a survey to find a date.
15:21:08 <kliehm> zakim, move to next agendum
15:21:09 <Zakim> I do not see any more non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, kliehm
15:21:34 <kliehm> TOPIC: Subteam Reports
15:22:47 <kliehm> JS: We make good progress in the media sub-team, except in regard of alternative text for the poster image. We are considering different approaches.
15:24:57 <kliehm> JS: Made very good progress nesting chapters in a hierarchical navigation, getting inspiration from DAISY.
15:25:37 <kliehm> GR: The chairs closed an issue, is that acceptable from the sub-team's perspective?
15:25:49 <JF> +Q
15:26:20 <kliehm> JS: We could file a bug adding some informative text.
15:27:16 <JF> ack jf
15:27:33 <kliehm> JF: The solution we're looking at has some impact on the time-stamp format. There are no changes required on HTML, but rather on the time-stamp format. We'd rather have an implementation first to test with.
15:28:37 <MikeSmith> q?
15:28:58 <davidb> davidb has joined #html-a11y
15:29:32 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:29:47 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
15:29:55 <kliehm> PC: When Sylvia responded on ISSUE-163 saying she was unable to write a change proposal, she posted questions to the mailing list.
15:30:21 <cyns> cyns has joined #html-a11y
15:30:22 <kliehm> ISSUE-163?
15:30:22 <trackbot> ISSUE-163 does not exist
15:30:41 <kliehm> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/163
15:32:35 <Zakim> -Lynn_Holdsworth
15:32:39 <kliehm> JF: Text alternatives sub-team: no meeting due to holiday.
15:33:10 <MikeSmith> q?
15:33:45 <kliehm> PC: Any news on the meta-generator issue Maciej asked about?
15:34:13 <kliehm> JF: Me and Steve Faulkner are working on it.
15:34:20 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
15:34:54 <kliehm> PC: I'd suggest to put it on the agenda for the text-alternatives sub-team on next Monday.
15:34:58 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:35:47 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
15:35:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
15:37:05 <Joshue> SH: The more topics that we find on the wiki, we can use that as a point of reference for future work etc.
15:37:15 <Joshue> SH: Anything you want to look at further please do add.
15:37:22 <JF> Forwarded Maciej's email to the TF mailing list re: Meta-Generator response.
15:38:01 <kliehm> RS: Canvas sub-team: about to file a bug for tabbing through canvas. Charles Pritchard put together a prototype for hit testing.
15:38:45 <kliehm> RS: Canvas is farther along in accessibility than SVG is. Saying "use SVG" is not an alternative.
15:38:49 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
15:39:18 <kliehm> JS: Also accessibility is a top priority for all W3C specs, so just referring to another spec is not an option.
15:39:22 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:40:10 <kliehm> RS: Quite a few people have asked browser vendors about hit testing, so apart from accessibility other people would benefit from such a technique.
15:43:26 <kliehm> RS: Another use-case for hit testing: on touch-screens being able to identify the section that has been touched is necessary. So mobile devices, screen-magnifiers, braille devices and many more need to identify the boundaries of characters and elements.
15:45:13 <kliehm> RS: Providing the location of these objects in the canvas subtree is necessary. Also key events do not target the subtree objects yet while the mouse events would.
15:45:42 <MikeSmith> q?
15:45:44 <Zakim> +??P8
15:45:46 <kliehm> s/the boundaries/the bounds/
15:46:11 <kliehm> RS: I'm writing bugs for these issues today.
15:46:56 <kliehm> PC: Suggesting separate entries setting high priorities so that they could be escalated earlier.
15:47:20 <kliehm> RS: Posted on text baseline, didn't get feedback yet.
15:47:35 <kliehm> PC: The chairs haven't met yet due to the holiday and vacations.
15:47:46 <MikeSmith> q?
15:48:12 <kliehm> RS: Writing a proposal about the focus ring (ISSUE-131) is still on my todo-list.
15:48:15 <Zakim> -Paul_Cotton
15:48:22 <kliehm> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/131
15:48:55 <LJW> LJW has joined #html-a11y
15:49:11 <kliehm> MS: Problem I see is getting implementor support.
15:49:42 <kliehm> RS: I'd object to canvas being in the spec with that major hole in it.
15:50:37 <kliehm> CS: There's still controversy how bad that bug (rectangular bounds in the sub-tree) is. Is that a blocking bug?
15:51:10 <kliehm> CS: There's a proposal about hit testing in JavaScript.
15:51:32 <kliehm> RS: So you're suggesting to but the responsibility on the author?
15:51:43 <kliehm> CS: It wouldn't be my preference.
15:52:24 <kliehm> RS: Usually there's consensus that the burden should be removed from the web developer.
15:52:33 <kliehm> MS: Agreed.
15:53:49 <cyns> cyns has joined #html-a11y
15:53:52 <cyns> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Jun/0269.html
15:54:29 <kliehm> MS: Paul Cotton provided an excellent use-case on hit-testing of isometric pixel-graphics, so rectangular bounds wouldn't be able to provide this. Then again this would be extremely hard to implement because it would require checking which PNG pixels are transparent.
15:55:48 <MikeSmith> s/Paul Cotton/Paul Bakaus/
15:55:57 <kliehm> MS: I'd focus on identifying what's impossible / very impractical to do, so we could concentrate on what's possible.
15:56:28 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
15:56:40 <Zakim> +??P14
15:56:47 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
15:56:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
15:57:37 <kliehm> MS: There are several people who really care about this, including Frank Olivier.
15:59:04 <kliehm> MS: We shouldn't alienate the implementors further, rather concentrate how to buy them in.
16:00:53 <kliehm> CS: It may be unfeasible to address that problem.
16:01:03 <MikeSmith> q?
16:01:59 <kliehm> MS: Canvas accessibility should be top of the agenda next week.
16:02:40 <kliehm> RS: I try to be on the call although I'm traveling; filing the bugs today.
16:03:17 <kliehm> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:03:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see Eric_Carlson, John_Foliot, Michael_Cooper, kliehm (muted), Mike, Marco_Ranon (muted), Rich_Schwerdtfeger, [Microsoft], ??P8, ??P14
16:03:28 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:03:34 <eric_carlson> eric_carlson has left #html-a11y
16:03:34 <Zakim> -Eric_Carlson
16:03:36 <MikeSmith> adjourned
16:03:39 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
16:03:40 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
16:03:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:03:42 <Zakim> -??P8
16:03:46 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
16:03:48 <Zakim> -??P14
16:03:50 <Zakim> -Marco_Ranon
16:03:52 <Zakim> -Mike
16:03:54 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
16:04:14 <Zakim> -kliehm
16:04:16 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has ended
16:04:22 <Zakim> Attendees were Cynthia_Shelly, Eric_Carlson, John_Foliot, Michael_Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Lynn_Holdsworth, +49.179.103.aaaa, Mike, kliehm, Marco_Ranon, Paul_Cotton, [Microsoft],
16:04:27 <Zakim> ... Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:04:32 <cyns> I said that it may be infeasible to implement the whole solution right now, not that it may be infeasible to do it at all.  how do I change the minutes?
16:04:44 <kliehm> present- +49.179.103aaaa
16:04:49 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
16:04:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:05:25 <kliehm> present- \+49.179.103aaaa
16:05:28 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
16:05:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:06:17 <kliehm> present- kliehm
16:06:24 <kliehm> present+ Martin_Kliehm
16:06:28 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
16:06:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:06:59 <kliehm> chair: Mike_Smith
16:07:20 <kliehm> present- 49.179.103aaaa
16:07:24 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
16:07:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:08:09 <MikeSmith> kliehm, thanks very much for scribing
16:09:01 <MikeSmith> I can edit the source and remove it
16:09:04 <janina> janina has left #html-a11y
16:09:05 <MikeSmith> want me to do that?
16:09:31 <MikeSmith> OK, will do that right now
16:12:10 <kliehm> kliehm has joined #html-a11y
16:12:57 <kliehm> s/It may be unfeasible to address that problem./It may be infeasible to implement the whole solution right now./
16:13:07 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
16:13:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:13:47 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
16:13:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:14:28 <kliehm> s/to address that problem/to implement the whole solution right now/
16:14:34 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
16:14:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:16:18 <kliehm> s/It may be unfeasible to address that problem/It may be infeasible to implement the whole solution right now/
16:16:28 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
16:16:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:17:11 <kliehm> s/It may be unfeasible to address that problem/It may be infeasible to implement the whole solution right now/
16:17:15 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
16:17:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:17:54 <kliehm> s/It may be unfeasible to address that problem/It may be infeasible to implement the whole solution right now/
16:17:59 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
16:17:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:19:40 <kliehm> zakim, please part
16:19:40 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
16:19:48 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
16:19:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:21:55 <kliehm> s/address that problem/implement the whole solution right now/
16:21:58 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
16:21:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:23:30 <kliehm> rrsagent, please part
16:23:30 <RRSAgent> I see no action items