21:19:42 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y 21:19:42 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/07/06-html-a11y-irc 21:19:44 RRSAgent, make logs world 21:19:46 Zakim, this will be 2119 21:19:46 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes 21:19:47 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 21:19:47 Date: 06 July 2011 21:20:03 zakim, this is 2119 21:20:03 JF, I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be 2119". 21:20:15 zakim, this will be 2119 21:20:15 ok, JF; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM scheduled to start in 10 minutes 21:20:31 Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon 21:20:33 Chair: Janina_Sajka 21:20:35 Scribe: John_Foliot 21:20:37 agenda: this 21:20:38 agenda + Paused Media: Exploring the Optimal User Experience Texted 21:20:40 agenda + Descriptions: User Requirements Discussion Hierarchical 21:20:41 agenda + Navigation: Progress Checkin Actions Review 21:20:43 agenda + http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open 21:20:44 agenda + Other Business? 21:20:46 agenda + be done 21:21:26 zakim, show agenda 21:21:26 I see 11 items remaining on the agenda: 21:21:27 4. Subteam Reports: Canvas; Media; Text; Bug Triage [from janina] 21:21:30 5. Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open [from janina] 21:21:32 6. Other Business [from janina] 21:21:34 7. Identify Scribe for 7 July http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List [from janina] 21:21:37 8. be done [from janina] 21:21:39 9. Paused Media: Exploring the Optimal User Experience Texted [from JF] 21:21:42 10. Descriptions: User Requirements Discussion Hierarchical [from JF] 21:21:43 11. Navigation: Progress Checkin Actions Review [from JF] 21:21:44 12. http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open [from JF] 21:21:45 13. Other Business? [from JF] 21:21:45 14. be done [from JF] 21:21:59 zakim, drop agendum4 21:21:59 sorry, JF, I don't know what conference this is 21:22:15 zakim, this is 2119 21:22:15 JF, I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be 2119". 21:22:25 zakim, this will be 2119 21:22:26 ok, JF; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM scheduled to start in 8 minutes 21:22:42 zakim, drop agendum 4 21:22:42 agendum 4, Subteam Reports: Canvas; Media; Text; Bug Triage, dropped 21:22:50 zakim, drop agendum 5 21:22:50 agendum 5, Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open, dropped 21:23:01 zakim, drop agendum 6 21:23:01 agendum 6, Other Business, dropped 21:23:06 WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM has now started 21:23:13 zakim, drop agendum 7 21:23:13 agendum 7, Identify Scribe for 7 July http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List, dropped 21:23:15 +??P11 21:23:27 zakim, show agenda 21:23:27 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda: 21:23:29 8. be done [from janina] 21:23:31 9. Paused Media: Exploring the Optimal User Experience Texted [from JF] 21:23:34 10. Descriptions: User Requirements Discussion Hierarchical [from JF] 21:23:36 11. Navigation: Progress Checkin Actions Review [from JF] 21:23:37 12. http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open [from JF] 21:23:37 janina has joined #html-a11y 21:23:38 13. Other Business? [from JF] 21:23:38 14. be done [from JF] 21:23:46 zakim, drop agendum 8 21:23:46 agendum 8, be done, dropped 21:23:57 zakim, reorder agenda 21:23:57 I don't understand 'reorder agenda', JF 21:24:15 trackbot start meeting 21:24:18 janina, I've already loaded the conference 21:24:23 'it's all ready 21:24:34 Hey, John! Big tech problems here today! 21:24:53 zakim, show agenda 21:24:53 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda: 21:24:55 9. Paused Media: Exploring the Optimal User Experience Texted [from JF] 21:24:58 10. Descriptions: User Requirements Discussion Hierarchical [from JF] 21:25:00 11. Navigation: Progress Checkin Actions Review [from JF] 21:25:02 12. http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open [from JF] 21:25:03 13. Other Business? [from JF] 21:25:05 14. be done [from JF] 21:25:43 Looks like #12 belongs to #11 21:25:48 +John_Foliot 21:26:52 zakim, drop agendum 9 21:26:52 agendum 9, Paused Media: Exploring the Optimal User Experience Texted, dropped 21:27:00 silvia has joined #html-a11y 21:27:00 zakim, drop agendum 10 21:27:00 agendum 10, Descriptions: User Requirements Discussion Hierarchical, dropped 21:27:06 zakim, drop agendum 11 21:27:06 agendum 11, Navigation: Progress Checkin Actions Review, dropped 21:27:14 zakim, drop agendum 12 21:27:14 agendum 12, http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open, dropped 21:27:22 zakim, drop agendum 12 21:27:22 agendum 12, http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open, dropped 21:27:34 zakim, drop agendum 13 21:27:34 agendum 13, Other Business?, dropped 21:27:52 zakim, drop agendum 14 21:27:52 agendum 14, be done, dropped 21:28:03 agenda + Paused Media: Exploring the Optimal User Experience Texted 21:28:05 agenda + Descriptions: User Requirements Discussion Hierarchical 21:28:07 agenda + Navigation: Progress Checkin Actions Review zakim, drop http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open 21:28:09 agenda + Other Business? 21:28:11 agenda + be done 21:28:58 + +44.844.800.aaaa 21:29:30 Sean has joined #html-a11y 21:30:56 -John_Foliot 21:31:26 +John_Foliot 21:33:05 + +28012aabb 21:33:12 zakim, aabb is me 21:33:12 +silvia; got it 21:33:53 zakim, mute me 21:33:53 silvia should now be muted 21:34:11 zakim, who's here? 21:34:11 On the phone I see ??P11, +44.844.800.aaaa, John_Foliot, silvia (muted) 21:34:13 On IRC I see Sean, silvia, RRSAgent, JF, MikeSmith, Zakim, trackbot, [tm] 21:34:45 zakim, aaaa is Sean_Hayes 21:34:45 +Sean_Hayes; got it 21:38:07 -??P11 21:38:25 zakim, next agendum 21:38:25 agendum 15. "Paused Media: Exploring the Optimal User Experience Texted" taken up [from JF] 21:38:41 zakim, unmute me 21:38:41 silvia should no longer be muted 21:41:08 frankolivier has joined #html-a11y 21:42:22 janina has joined #html-a11y 21:43:54 +??P0 21:45:55 frankolivier: we are currently discussing the state of navigation - do you want to jong 21:46:00 s/jong/jin/ 21:46:05 s/jin/join/ 21:46:07 OMW - finishing up another meeting 21:46:34 +[Microsoft] 21:46:49 Zakim, [Microsoft] is frankolivier 21:46:49 +frankolivier; got it 21:48:52 zakim, take up agendum 16 21:48:52 agendum 16. "Descriptions: User Requirements Discussion Hierarchical" taken up [from JF] 21:49:21 FO: the concept of using lists seems simple enough 21:49:53 SF 1st level navigation have cue points with chapters 21:50:38 in the spec we already have chapters, and they are defined as having cues as navigation points, but we were looking at how to add multi-level navigation 21:50:45 which in HTML is typically done with lists 21:51:09 so using a
    that starts at the chapter cues 21:52:19 SH if something has a sub-time stamp, a duration that starts and ends inside of the cue, then it is a child point 21:52:37 JS: this could go down to 6 levels? 21:52:44 SH: as many as you like 21:53:11 with this we need to get more agreement on what the HTML should look like if we come up with something new 21:53:31 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Navigation#Example_markup_with_3_hierarchical_levels 21:53:32 q+ 21:53:35 SP: agree, we already have navigation mechanism tools, we should build upon them 21:54:02 SP: have done a markup example to show how this might look like 21:55:16 FO: one cue opject for every first level chapter, and then for writing nav custom controls would need to parse the other levels as well 21:55:30 SP: it would be rendered into the shadow DOM 21:55:55 jusing JS you would probably need an HTML fragment parser 21:56:21 FO: 2 problems to solve, give the screen reader some insight of what the various objects are in the queue 21:56:41 for web devs who want to develop their own controls, they will need to do the parsing themselves 21:57:59 SP: they would create the snippet (list) themselves, and then hand that to the mutable text track creation, it gets handled as any other regular track file 21:58:14 FO: the question is more around when user is not using a screen reader 21:58:31 let's say you want to show the full index of multi-levels on the side of the video region 21:58:50 getting the first level Chapters is pretty easy, but parsing the other levels is more complex 21:59:30 FO: it's awkward to have the first level exposed in one way, and the other levels exposed at another way 22:01:28 +Q 22:02:36 ack fra 22:04:14 q+ 22:05:39 ack j 22:06:56 (discussion of how screen readers deal with navigation) 22:07:03 ack fran 22:12:14 Frank will develop some code examples, and janina will invite the Daisy folk to help us review 22:12:41 FO; I s multi-level navigation an absolute requirement? 22:12:52 (JF and janina echo yes at the same time) 22:13:21 JS: We need to ensure that the spec is able to support these user-requirements, we've not discussed implementation details 22:13:43 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements#Content_navigation_by_content_structure 22:16:16 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Navigation#3._Single-track.2C_multiple_cues 22:18:15 WCAG Guideline 2.4 "Navigable" http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms.html 22:18:56 1.3.1 Info and Relationships: Information, structure, and relationships conveyed through presentation can be programmatically determined or are available in text. (Level A) 22:19:04 http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#content-structure-separation 22:19:40 1.3.2 Meaningful Sequence: When the sequence in which content is presented affects its meaning, a correct reading sequence can be programmatically determined. (Level A) 22:20:04 +Q 22:20:34 ack j 22:22:28 zakim, take up agendum 15 22:22:28 agendum 15. "Paused Media: Exploring the Optimal User Experience Texted" taken up [from JF] 22:26:31 zakim, mute me 22:26:31 silvia should now be muted 22:27:24 I've not given up on aria-describedby, but I think at this point we will get nowhere unless we do an implementation and prove it one way or the other 22:31:50 zakim, take up agendum 17 22:31:50 agendum 17. "Navigation: Progress Checkin Actions Review zakim, drop http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open" taken up [from JF] 22:39:52 q+ 22:40:13 zakim, unmute me 22:40:13 silvia should no longer be muted 22:46:14 zakim, mute me 22:46:14 silvia should now be muted 22:47:14 discussion of perhaps usiing meta-data file for specifying multiple images "stills" (chapter points) 22:47:48 zakim, unmute me 22:47:48 silvia should no longer be muted 22:48:25 JS: a few weeks back, we discussied the longer text description and the video is paused, we were trying to figure out how this was processed 22:48:54 SP: it depends on the screen reader user, so we need to let the end-user decide 22:49:25 so we almost need to think of *all* extended descriptions as potentiallly going beyond fixed time-lines 22:49:43 so Silvia has taken this to the iAccessible list, and it is under discussion there 22:49:58 from HTML however everything else is in place 22:50:08 JS: agree, after that it is user-agent behavior 22:50:15 zaim, mute me 22:50:19 zakim, mute me 22:50:19 silvia should now be muted 22:50:52 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/128 22:50:56 zakim, unmute me 22:50:56 silvia should no longer be muted 22:51:06 Follow-up on @transcript attribute on Silvia 22:51:35 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12964 22:52:02 ACTION - 128 closed 22:52:02 Sorry, couldn't find user - - 22:52:14 close action-128 22:52:15 ACTION-128 Follow-up on @transcript attribute closed 22:52:49 zakim, next item 22:52:49 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, JF 22:53:03 q? 22:53:03 q? 22:53:08 queack sil 22:53:10 zakim, ack me 22:53:10 I see no one on the speaker queue 22:53:11 -frankolivier 22:53:12 ack si 22:53:19 zakim, next item 22:53:19 agendum 15. "Paused Media: Exploring the Optimal User Experience Texted" taken up [from JF] 22:53:25 -silvia 22:53:35 zakim, take up agenum 18 22:53:35 I don't understand 'take up agenum 18', JF 22:53:45 zakim, take up agendum 18 22:53:45 agendum 18. "Other Business?" taken up [from JF] 22:54:23 -John_Foliot 22:54:24 -??P0 22:54:27 -Sean_Hayes 22:54:29 WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM has ended 22:54:31 Attendees were John_Foliot, +44.844.800.aaaa, +28012aabb, silvia, Sean_Hayes, frankolivier 22:54:31 zakim, bye 22:54:31 Zakim has left #html-a11y 22:54:42 rrsagent, make logs public 22:54:52 rrsagent, make minutes 22:54:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/06-html-a11y-minutes.html JF 22:55:30 rrsaagent, make logs public 22:55:59 rrsagent, please part 22:55:59 I see no action items