IRC log of sparql on 2011-07-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:47:30 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/07/05-sparql-irc

13:47:32 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

13:47:32 [Zakim]

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13:47:34 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 77277

13:47:34 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes

13:47:35 [trackbot]

Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

13:47:35 [trackbot]

Date: 05 July 2011

13:47:51 [axelpolleres]

thanks trackbot, forgot what I said...

13:48:12 [axelpolleres]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0003.html

13:51:29 [axelpolleres]

chair: AxelPolleres

13:51:35 [axelpolleres]

regrets: SteveH

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13:57:48 [Olivier]

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13:59:22 [Zakim]

SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

13:59:33 [Zakim]

+kasei

13:59:45 [MattPerry]

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13:59:53 [Zakim]

+ +43.664.801.171.aaaa

14:00:04 [axelpolleres]

Zakim, aaaa is me

14:00:04 [Zakim]

+axelpolleres; got it

14:00:12 [Zakim]

+??P2

14:00:16 [cbuilara]

zakim, ??P2 is me

14:00:16 [Zakim]

+cbuilara; got it

14:00:45 [Zakim]

+MattPerry

14:00:52 [axelpolleres]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

14:00:57 [Zakim]

On the phone I see kasei, axelpolleres, cbuilara, MattPerry

14:01:03 [Zakim]

+ +33.4.92.38.aabb - is perhaps Bert

14:01:04 [Zakim]

+??P8

14:01:11 [Zakim]

+??P10

14:01:15 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P10 is me

14:01:23 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:01:27 [Olivier]

zakim, aabb is me

14:01:29 [bglimm]

Zakim, ??P8 is me

14:01:39 [Zakim]

sorry, Olivier, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'

14:01:41 [Zakim]

+bglimm; got it

14:01:43 [bglimm]

Zakim, mute me

14:01:45 [Zakim]

bglimm should now be muted

14:02:03 [kasei]

I can

14:02:09 [axelpolleres]

Any volunteers to scribe? thanks, greg!

14:02:17 [kasei]

scribenick: kasei

14:02:28 [axelpolleres]

scribe: greg

14:02:49 [NickH]

zakim, what is the code?

14:02:49 [Zakim]

the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), NickH

14:03:06 [Zakim]

+LeeF

14:03:31 [kasei]

sure, if you'd like

14:03:47 [LeeF]

scribenick: LeeF

14:03:57 [LeeF]

axelpolleres: let's discuss our strategy going forwards

14:04:02 [Zakim]

+??P16

14:04:08 [LeeF]

topic: Admin

14:04:17 [NickH]

Zakim, ??P16 is me

14:04:17 [Zakim]

+NickH; got it

14:04:21 [LeeF]

axelpolleres: agenda is at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0003.html

14:04:28 [axelpolleres]

PROPOSED: approve minutes from last week at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-06-28

14:04:44 [bglimm]

I said I can't make it

14:04:49 [chimezie]

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14:04:52 [bglimm]

Does that count as regrets?

14:04:55 [LeeF]

bglimm, yes

14:05:01 [bglimm]

Anyway it's not important

14:05:12 [NickH]

Zakim, mute me

14:05:12 [Zakim]

NickH should now be muted

14:05:21 [LeeF]

+1 to minutes

14:05:23 [axelpolleres]

PROPOSED: approve minutes from last week at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-06-28, modulo adding regrets of Birte

14:05:37 [axelpolleres]

RESOLVED: approve minutes from last week at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-06-28, modulo adding regrets of Birte

14:05:40 [alex_]

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14:05:49 [Zakim]

+alex_

14:06:15 [chimezie]

Zakim, code

14:06:15 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'code', chimezie

14:06:16 [axelpolleres]

chime, are you able to scribe next time?

14:06:22 [chimezie]

Zakim, what is the passcode?

14:06:22 [Zakim]

the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), chimezie

14:06:28 [chimezie]

sure i can scribe

14:06:34 [LeeF]

axelpolleres: next meeting is Tuesday, July 12th at same time and place, with chimezie to scribe

14:06:36 [axelpolleres]

next time scribe, chime

14:06:53 [axelpolleres]

please fill vacation list on http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Vacation_List2011

14:06:57 [Zakim]

+chimezie

14:07:35 [LeeF]

q+

14:07:38 [axelpolleres]

topic: Liaison: any further urgent news from RDF WG or all resolved with last week's discussion?

14:07:42 [LeeF]

topic: RDF WG

14:07:43 [LeeF]

ack me

14:07:59 [LeeF]

ACTION-485?

14:07:59 [trackbot]

ACTION-485 -- Lee Feigenbaum to talk to Sandro and Eric about the informative note approach to aligning SPARQL with the RDF literal changes -- due 2011-07-05 -- OPEN

14:07:59 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/485

14:08:23 [AndyS]

No minutes of the graph naming ad hoc telecon yet but "to come"

14:11:22 [LeeF]

close ACTION-485

14:11:22 [trackbot]

ACTION-485 Talk to Sandro and Eric about the informative note approach to aligning SPARQL with the RDF literal changes closed

14:11:37 [LeeF]

LeeF: I talked to Sandro, who gave a thumbs up to an informative note that outlines what changes in SPARQL to align with the RDF literal change

14:11:41 [bglimm]

I prefer a separate note, but no strong pref

14:12:03 [LeeF]

LeeF: Sandro did suggest flagging tests that are affected by this so that people can legitimately ignore them once RDF 1.1 matures

14:12:17 [AndyS]

NB we are not opening XML results doc currently.

14:12:24 [LeeF]

axelpolleres: Would this work better as a single WG Note or as informative notes within all of the affected specificaitons?

14:12:27 [AndyS]

If in doc, we have to do that.

14:12:29 [LeeF]

LeeF: Interesting! No strong opinion

14:12:46 [LeeF]

axelpolleres: Any other opinions?

14:12:49 [LeeF]

axelpolleres: Strawpoll!

14:12:52 [axelpolleres]

strawpoll discuss "using SPARQL1.1 with RDF1.1" in separate WG note (+1) or in separate informative sections in existing specs

14:13:10 [chimezie]

+1 (separate note)

14:13:14 [chimezie]

Zakim, mute me

14:13:14 [Zakim]

chimezie should now be muted

14:13:19 [bglimm]

separate note

14:13:20 [Zakim]

+pgearon

14:13:23 [LeeF]

separate note

14:13:25 [MattPerry]

+1 separate note

14:13:27 [kasei]

note (0.5)

14:13:27 [axelpolleres]

separate note

14:13:30 [Olivier]

+1

14:13:39 [AndyS]

+1 separate note (mildly)

14:14:02 [LeeF]

LeeF: with a separate note we can probably do this somewhat collaboratively on a wiki page

14:14:20 [cbuilara]

+1

14:14:45 [LeeF]

ACTION: Axel to setup a wiki page for creating a WG note on how RDF expected changes affect SPARQL 1.1

14:14:45 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-486 - Setup a wiki page for creating a WG note on how RDF expected changes affect SPARQL 1.1 [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-07-12].

14:15:42 [LeeF]

LeeF: Can we have a resolution on this path forwards so that we can communicate it to the RDF WG?

14:15:48 [Zakim]

-AndyS

14:15:53 [axelpolleres]

PROPOSED: SPARQL1.1 will be specified in terms of RDF1.0 but the WG aims at publishing "using SPARQL1.1 with RDF1.1" as a separate WG Note

14:16:08 [bglimm]

+1

14:16:09 [LeeF]

+1

14:16:13 [Olivier]

+1

14:16:14 [axelpolleres]

+1

14:16:16 [cbuilara]

+1

14:16:21 [AlexPassant]

+1

14:16:24 [pgearon]

+!

14:16:27 [pgearon]

+1

14:16:38 [chimezie]

+1

14:16:47 [AlexPassant]

was the original name "RDF1.0" ?

14:17:53 [axelpolleres]

RESOLVED: SPARQL1.1 will be specified in terms of RDF1.0 but the WG aims at publishing "using SPARQL1.1 with RDF1.1" as a separate WG Note.

14:17:58 [Zakim]

+??P10

14:18:02 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P10 is me

14:18:02 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:18:15 [LeeF]

(Note, by 1.0 we mean the current RDF Recommendation, and by 1.1 we mean the Recommendations being pursued by the current RDF WG)

14:18:19 [AndyS]

q+

14:19:33 [LeeF]

LeeF: We should get actions for people to help fill out the WG Note wiki page

14:19:42 [LeeF]

AndyS: What about language tags? What do we expect the RDF group to do there?

14:19:52 [LeeF]

LeeF: Nothing yet, but maybe they'll make a decision while we're still active and we can consider it then

14:19:55 [LeeF]

Topic: Comments

14:19:58 [LeeF]

ack AndyS

14:20:07 [bglimm]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments

14:20:08 [axelpolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments#Last_Call_comments

14:20:37 [bglimm]

Zakim, unmute me

14:20:37 [Zakim]

bglimm should no longer be muted

14:20:47 [AndyS]

Looks good to send to me.

14:20:50 [LeeF]

axelpolleres: Is birte's comment with Andy's rewording OK to me?

14:21:06 [AndyS]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:AZ-1

14:21:17 [LeeF]

LeeF: I will look now

14:22:16 [bglimm]

Zakim, mute me

14:22:16 [Zakim]

bglimm should now be muted

14:22:18 [LeeF]

LeeF: Looks good to me to send

14:22:26 [bglimm]

Yes

14:22:32 [bglimm]

will mark it as send

14:22:55 [Zakim]

-cbuilara

14:23:05 [kasei]

DB-2 is trivial, but needs an OK from somebody else before I send it.

14:23:19 [kasei]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:DB-2

14:23:27 [chimezie]

my response to LD could use a look over

14:23:32 [chimezie]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:LD-4

14:24:14 [chimezie]

Zakim, unmute me

14:24:14 [Zakim]

chimezie should no longer be muted

14:24:23 [LeeF]

LeeF: DB-2 looks OK to me

14:24:41 [LeeF]

LeeF: For purely editorial matters, editors should be free to respond to commenters without waiting on OKs from other WG members

14:24:52 [LeeF]

chimezie: Composed LD-4 a while back but could use a set of eyes before being sent out

14:25:06 [cbuilara]

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14:25:33 [Zakim]

+??P2

14:25:34 [chimezie]

i will try to get to IM-1 and SJ-1 before the end of the week

14:25:37 [cbuilara]

zakim, ??P2 is me

14:25:37 [Zakim]

+cbuilara; got it

14:27:06 [axelpolleres]

to all... please check draft responses of open comments and help us getting them sent.

14:27:07 [alex_]

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14:27:36 [axelpolleres]

topic: action review

14:27:38 [axelpolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/open

14:28:28 [chimezie]

yes, i think it is accurate / fair to say

14:28:50 [chimezie]

Zakim, mute me

14:28:50 [Zakim]

chimezie should now be muted

14:28:58 [chimezie]

k, thx

14:30:15 [axelpolleres]

ACTION: Carlos to draft a section for the test suite README on the vocabulary for SERVICE test cases.

14:30:15 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-487 - Draft a section for the test suite README on the vocabulary for SERVICE test cases. [on Carlos Buil Aranda - due 2011-07-12].

14:30:43 [axelpolleres]

close ACTION-477

14:30:43 [trackbot]

ACTION-477 Work with Carlos and Sandro on manifest vocabulary for testing SERVICE closed

14:32:24 [axelpolleres]

ACTION: axel to ping sandro on re-chartering progress

14:32:24 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-488 - Ping sandro on re-chartering progress [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-07-12].

14:32:54 [LeeF]

chimezie, I made edits to http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:LD-4 -- can you please take a look at them?

14:33:24 [Zakim]

+??P12

14:33:32 [chimezie]

looks good. Thanks Lee. I will send out that response today

14:33:32 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P12 is me

14:33:32 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:33:37 [LeeF]

thanks, chimezie

14:34:07 [kasei]

I've got outstanding comments on the ED of Fed that I'm sending to the list momentarily.

14:34:49 [kasei]

I can review

14:35:38 [axelpolleres]

ACTION: greg to review outcome of ACTION-462 as soon as it's done

14:35:39 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-489 - Review outcome of ACTION-462 as soon as it's done [on Gregory Williams - due 2011-07-12].

14:35:54 [axelpolleres]

ACTION: axel to review outcome of ACTION-462 as soon as it's done

14:35:54 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-490 - Review outcome of ACTION-462 as soon as it's done [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-07-12].

14:36:51 [AndyS]

ACTION-366

14:36:56 [AndyS]

ACTION-366?

14:36:56 [trackbot]

ACTION-366 -- Lee Feigenbaum to remind Sandro about registering JSON & Update MIME types, and checking on the Query and XML format status -- due 2011-01-25 -- OPEN

14:36:56 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/366

14:38:04 [AndyS]

q+ to ask about CSV/TSV Note

14:38:07 [axelpolleres]

topic: AOB

14:38:47 [axelpolleres]

Andy: CSV/TSV schedule...

14:39:38 [axelpolleres]

... shall we publish with the other docs?

14:39:57 [axelpolleres]

Lee: don't want to publish without reviweing myself (chairhat off)

14:40:32 [axelpolleres]

ACTION: lee to review CVS/TSV doc

14:40:33 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-491 - Review CVS/TSV doc [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-07-12].

14:40:43 [LeeF]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/csv-tsv-results/results-csv-tsv.html

14:40:54 [chimezie]

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14:41:35 [axelpolleres]

Axel: let's see whether we can publish CSV/TSV with other docs, when we know next week where the charter and the review are.

14:42:12 [AndyS]

LeeF: no need couple publication to other docs

14:42:34 [axelpolleres]

Axel: the other big topic is the testsuite.

14:43:40 [Zakim]

-chimezie

14:43:41 [bglimm]

bye

14:43:43 [LeeF]

axelpolleres: adjourned

14:43:45 [Zakim]

-MattPerry

14:43:46 [Zakim]

-Bert

14:43:46 [Zakim]

-bglimm

14:43:47 [axelpolleres]

adjourned.

14:43:48 [Zakim]

-NickH

14:43:48 [Zakim]

-cbuilara

14:43:51 [Zakim]

-pgearon

14:44:07 [Zakim]

-kasei

14:44:29 [alex__]

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14:46:22 [AndyS]

Update needs tests beyond DELETE-INSERT-WHERE and variants.

14:46:59 [kasei]

do we have a list anywhere with things that still need test cases?

14:47:32 [axelpolleres]

we need to collect status of implementation coverage (beyond query)...

14:47:37 [Zakim]

-AndyS

14:47:51 [AndyS]

ADD, MOVE, COPY, DROP, etc etc ... DELETE-INSERT-WHERE and variants is the largest piece of work and may be done.

14:48:06 [AndyS]

Odd - I'm on the call still!

14:48:13 [axelpolleres]

Update, SD, Protocol, implementations.

14:49:24 [axelpolleres]

ACTION: axel to check coverage of test suite (on Update)

14:49:24 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-492 - Check coverage of test suite (on Update) [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-07-12].

14:49:53 [axelpolleres]

multiple requests...

14:51:13 [axelpolleres]

andy: suggests to ask implementers to run full test suite, will give us an idea what is there and what not, in terms of implementations of current tests

14:52:07 [AndyS]

Does not identify missing bits

14:53:30 [AndyS]

Only eyeballs will do that :-(

14:54:20 [AndyS]

ACTION: AndyS, Start wiki page on test coverage

14:54:20 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - AndyS,

14:54:31 [axelpolleres]

idea on wikipage is good... let's see next call. thanks andy!

14:54:36 [Zakim]

-AndyS.a

14:54:40 [axelpolleres]

adjourned now 4 real

14:54:55 [Zakim]

-alex_

14:55:13 [axelpolleres]

rrsagent, make records public

14:55:19 [axelpolleres]

bye all

14:55:44 [Zakim]

-axelpolleres

14:56:48 [axelpolleres]

BTW, I can do the minutes stuff, thanks Lee+greg for scribing

14:59:38 [kasei]

AndyS, are you planning on supporting (or already support?) variable-endpoint SERVICE patterns?

15:00:21 [kasei]

anyone else with an implementation of SERVICE?

15:01:01 [cbuilara]

I have an implementation of SERVICE, but most of the other SPARQL 1.1 things are missing

15:01:58 [kasei]

what's your implementation, cbuilara?

15:02:27 [cbuilara]

it extends a database federation/workflow system calld ogsa-dai

15:02:39 [cbuilara]

I want to upload it to ogsa-dai's svn

15:02:47 [cbuilara]

but I still have to work in it

15:04:12 [kasei]

when might I expect your cvs changes to the service tests?

15:04:39 [AndyS]

kasei - already supported - maybe not static checking for variables definedness though. i used to do everything at runtime - that's need tweaking.

15:05:00 [kasei]

ah, ok.

15:05:09 [kasei]

didn't realize you already did the variable form.

15:05:44 [kasei]

without static checks, do you just spin around at runtime until it's defined? or throw an error if it's not defined when the pattern gets executed?

15:06:06 [Zakim]

-LeeF

15:06:07 [Zakim]

SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

15:06:09 [Zakim]

Attendees were kasei, +43.664.801.171.aaaa, axelpolleres, cbuilara, MattPerry, +33.4.92.38.aabb, AndyS, bglimm, LeeF, NickH, alex_, chimezie, pgearon

15:06:55 [cbuilara]

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15:07:13 [AndyS]

Error - maybe skip that row type error which is the runtime thingy. And IIRC it complains greatly.

15:07:14 [cbuilara]

sorry, I got disconnected

15:07:48 [AndyS]

It went through a burst of popularity a few weeks ago (some course work?)

15:08:03 [kasei]

heh. that time of year...

15:09:25 [kasei]

i'm on the fence about whether I want to do the work to do the query planning properly with static checks.

15:10:15 [kasei]

not sure the cost/benefit works out for me right now, but also a bit freaked out about the possible unintended performance (DOS) implications.

15:11:16 [kasei]

cbuilara: did you have an eta on the service test changes?

15:11:24 [cbuilara]

tomorrow

15:11:44 [kasei]

ok

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