IRC log of sparql on 2011-07-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:47:30 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
13:47:32 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:47:32 [Zakim]
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13:47:34 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 77277
13:47:34 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
13:47:35 [trackbot]
Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:47:35 [trackbot]
Date: 05 July 2011
13:47:51 [axelpolleres]
thanks trackbot, forgot what I said...
13:48:12 [axelpolleres]
13:51:29 [axelpolleres]
chair: AxelPolleres
13:51:35 [axelpolleres]
regrets: SteveH
13:54:13 [cbuilara]
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13:57:48 [Olivier]
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13:59:22 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
13:59:33 [Zakim]
13:59:45 [MattPerry]
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13:59:53 [Zakim]
+ +43.664.801.171.aaaa
14:00:04 [axelpolleres]
Zakim, aaaa is me
14:00:04 [Zakim]
+axelpolleres; got it
14:00:12 [Zakim]
14:00:16 [cbuilara]
zakim, ??P2 is me
14:00:16 [Zakim]
+cbuilara; got it
14:00:45 [Zakim]
14:00:52 [axelpolleres]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:00:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see kasei, axelpolleres, cbuilara, MattPerry
14:01:03 [Zakim]
+ + - is perhaps Bert
14:01:04 [Zakim]
14:01:11 [Zakim]
14:01:15 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P10 is me
14:01:23 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:01:27 [Olivier]
zakim, aabb is me
14:01:29 [bglimm]
Zakim, ??P8 is me
14:01:39 [Zakim]
sorry, Olivier, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
14:01:41 [Zakim]
+bglimm; got it
14:01:43 [bglimm]
Zakim, mute me
14:01:45 [Zakim]
bglimm should now be muted
14:02:03 [kasei]
I can
14:02:09 [axelpolleres]
Any volunteers to scribe? thanks, greg!
14:02:17 [kasei]
scribenick: kasei
14:02:28 [axelpolleres]
scribe: greg
14:02:49 [NickH]
zakim, what is the code?
14:02:49 [Zakim]
the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.203.318.0479), NickH
14:03:06 [Zakim]
14:03:31 [kasei]
sure, if you'd like
14:03:47 [LeeF]
scribenick: LeeF
14:03:57 [LeeF]
axelpolleres: let's discuss our strategy going forwards
14:04:02 [Zakim]
14:04:08 [LeeF]
topic: Admin
14:04:17 [NickH]
Zakim, ??P16 is me
14:04:17 [Zakim]
+NickH; got it
14:04:21 [LeeF]
axelpolleres: agenda is at
14:04:28 [axelpolleres]
PROPOSED: approve minutes from last week at
14:04:44 [bglimm]
I said I can't make it
14:04:49 [chimezie]
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14:04:52 [bglimm]
Does that count as regrets?
14:04:55 [LeeF]
bglimm, yes
14:05:01 [bglimm]
Anyway it's not important
14:05:12 [NickH]
Zakim, mute me
14:05:12 [Zakim]
NickH should now be muted
14:05:21 [LeeF]
+1 to minutes
14:05:23 [axelpolleres]
PROPOSED: approve minutes from last week at, modulo adding regrets of Birte
14:05:37 [axelpolleres]
RESOLVED: approve minutes from last week at, modulo adding regrets of Birte
14:05:40 [alex_]
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14:05:49 [Zakim]
14:06:15 [chimezie]
Zakim, code
14:06:15 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'code', chimezie
14:06:16 [axelpolleres]
chime, are you able to scribe next time?
14:06:22 [chimezie]
Zakim, what is the passcode?
14:06:22 [Zakim]
the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.203.318.0479), chimezie
14:06:28 [chimezie]
sure i can scribe
14:06:34 [LeeF]
axelpolleres: next meeting is Tuesday, July 12th at same time and place, with chimezie to scribe
14:06:36 [axelpolleres]
next time scribe, chime
14:06:53 [axelpolleres]
please fill vacation list on
14:06:57 [Zakim]
14:07:35 [LeeF]
14:07:38 [axelpolleres]
topic: Liaison: any further urgent news from RDF WG or all resolved with last week's discussion?
14:07:42 [LeeF]
topic: RDF WG
14:07:43 [LeeF]
ack me
14:07:59 [LeeF]
14:07:59 [trackbot]
ACTION-485 -- Lee Feigenbaum to talk to Sandro and Eric about the informative note approach to aligning SPARQL with the RDF literal changes -- due 2011-07-05 -- OPEN
14:07:59 [trackbot]
14:08:23 [AndyS]
No minutes of the graph naming ad hoc telecon yet but "to come"
14:11:22 [LeeF]
close ACTION-485
14:11:22 [trackbot]
ACTION-485 Talk to Sandro and Eric about the informative note approach to aligning SPARQL with the RDF literal changes closed
14:11:37 [LeeF]
LeeF: I talked to Sandro, who gave a thumbs up to an informative note that outlines what changes in SPARQL to align with the RDF literal change
14:11:41 [bglimm]
I prefer a separate note, but no strong pref
14:12:03 [LeeF]
LeeF: Sandro did suggest flagging tests that are affected by this so that people can legitimately ignore them once RDF 1.1 matures
14:12:17 [AndyS]
NB we are not opening XML results doc currently.
14:12:24 [LeeF]
axelpolleres: Would this work better as a single WG Note or as informative notes within all of the affected specificaitons?
14:12:27 [AndyS]
If in doc, we have to do that.
14:12:29 [LeeF]
LeeF: Interesting! No strong opinion
14:12:46 [LeeF]
axelpolleres: Any other opinions?
14:12:49 [LeeF]
axelpolleres: Strawpoll!
14:12:52 [axelpolleres]
strawpoll discuss "using SPARQL1.1 with RDF1.1" in separate WG note (+1) or in separate informative sections in existing specs
14:13:10 [chimezie]
+1 (separate note)
14:13:14 [chimezie]
Zakim, mute me
14:13:14 [Zakim]
chimezie should now be muted
14:13:19 [bglimm]
separate note
14:13:20 [Zakim]
14:13:23 [LeeF]
separate note
14:13:25 [MattPerry]
+1 separate note
14:13:27 [kasei]
note (0.5)
14:13:27 [axelpolleres]
separate note
14:13:30 [Olivier]
14:13:39 [AndyS]
+1 separate note (mildly)
14:14:02 [LeeF]
LeeF: with a separate note we can probably do this somewhat collaboratively on a wiki page
14:14:20 [cbuilara]
14:14:45 [LeeF]
ACTION: Axel to setup a wiki page for creating a WG note on how RDF expected changes affect SPARQL 1.1
14:14:45 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-486 - Setup a wiki page for creating a WG note on how RDF expected changes affect SPARQL 1.1 [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-07-12].
14:15:42 [LeeF]
LeeF: Can we have a resolution on this path forwards so that we can communicate it to the RDF WG?
14:15:48 [Zakim]
14:15:53 [axelpolleres]
PROPOSED: SPARQL1.1 will be specified in terms of RDF1.0 but the WG aims at publishing "using SPARQL1.1 with RDF1.1" as a separate WG Note
14:16:08 [bglimm]
14:16:09 [LeeF]
14:16:13 [Olivier]
14:16:14 [axelpolleres]
14:16:16 [cbuilara]
14:16:21 [AlexPassant]
14:16:24 [pgearon]
14:16:27 [pgearon]
14:16:38 [chimezie]
14:16:47 [AlexPassant]
was the original name "RDF1.0" ?
14:17:53 [axelpolleres]
RESOLVED: SPARQL1.1 will be specified in terms of RDF1.0 but the WG aims at publishing "using SPARQL1.1 with RDF1.1" as a separate WG Note.
14:17:58 [Zakim]
14:18:02 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P10 is me
14:18:02 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:18:15 [LeeF]
(Note, by 1.0 we mean the current RDF Recommendation, and by 1.1 we mean the Recommendations being pursued by the current RDF WG)
14:18:19 [AndyS]
14:19:33 [LeeF]
LeeF: We should get actions for people to help fill out the WG Note wiki page
14:19:42 [LeeF]
AndyS: What about language tags? What do we expect the RDF group to do there?
14:19:52 [LeeF]
LeeF: Nothing yet, but maybe they'll make a decision while we're still active and we can consider it then
14:19:55 [LeeF]
Topic: Comments
14:19:58 [LeeF]
ack AndyS
14:20:07 [bglimm]
14:20:08 [axelpolleres]
14:20:37 [bglimm]
Zakim, unmute me
14:20:37 [Zakim]
bglimm should no longer be muted
14:20:47 [AndyS]
Looks good to send to me.
14:20:50 [LeeF]
axelpolleres: Is birte's comment with Andy's rewording OK to me?
14:21:06 [AndyS]
14:21:17 [LeeF]
LeeF: I will look now
14:22:16 [bglimm]
Zakim, mute me
14:22:16 [Zakim]
bglimm should now be muted
14:22:18 [LeeF]
LeeF: Looks good to me to send
14:22:26 [bglimm]
14:22:32 [bglimm]
will mark it as send
14:22:55 [Zakim]
14:23:05 [kasei]
DB-2 is trivial, but needs an OK from somebody else before I send it.
14:23:19 [kasei]
14:23:27 [chimezie]
my response to LD could use a look over
14:23:32 [chimezie]
14:24:14 [chimezie]
Zakim, unmute me
14:24:14 [Zakim]
chimezie should no longer be muted
14:24:23 [LeeF]
LeeF: DB-2 looks OK to me
14:24:41 [LeeF]
LeeF: For purely editorial matters, editors should be free to respond to commenters without waiting on OKs from other WG members
14:24:52 [LeeF]
chimezie: Composed LD-4 a while back but could use a set of eyes before being sent out
14:25:06 [cbuilara]
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14:25:33 [Zakim]
14:25:34 [chimezie]
i will try to get to IM-1 and SJ-1 before the end of the week
14:25:37 [cbuilara]
zakim, ??P2 is me
14:25:37 [Zakim]
+cbuilara; got it
14:27:06 [axelpolleres]
to all... please check draft responses of open comments and help us getting them sent.
14:27:07 [alex_]
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14:27:36 [axelpolleres]
topic: action review
14:27:38 [axelpolleres]
14:28:28 [chimezie]
yes, i think it is accurate / fair to say
14:28:50 [chimezie]
Zakim, mute me
14:28:50 [Zakim]
chimezie should now be muted
14:28:58 [chimezie]
k, thx
14:30:15 [axelpolleres]
ACTION: Carlos to draft a section for the test suite README on the vocabulary for SERVICE test cases.
14:30:15 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-487 - Draft a section for the test suite README on the vocabulary for SERVICE test cases. [on Carlos Buil Aranda - due 2011-07-12].
14:30:43 [axelpolleres]
close ACTION-477
14:30:43 [trackbot]
ACTION-477 Work with Carlos and Sandro on manifest vocabulary for testing SERVICE closed
14:32:24 [axelpolleres]
ACTION: axel to ping sandro on re-chartering progress
14:32:24 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-488 - Ping sandro on re-chartering progress [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-07-12].
14:32:54 [LeeF]
chimezie, I made edits to -- can you please take a look at them?
14:33:24 [Zakim]
14:33:32 [chimezie]
looks good. Thanks Lee. I will send out that response today
14:33:32 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P12 is me
14:33:32 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:33:37 [LeeF]
thanks, chimezie
14:34:07 [kasei]
I've got outstanding comments on the ED of Fed that I'm sending to the list momentarily.
14:34:49 [kasei]
I can review
14:35:38 [axelpolleres]
ACTION: greg to review outcome of ACTION-462 as soon as it's done
14:35:39 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-489 - Review outcome of ACTION-462 as soon as it's done [on Gregory Williams - due 2011-07-12].
14:35:54 [axelpolleres]
ACTION: axel to review outcome of ACTION-462 as soon as it's done
14:35:54 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-490 - Review outcome of ACTION-462 as soon as it's done [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-07-12].
14:36:51 [AndyS]
14:36:56 [AndyS]
14:36:56 [trackbot]
ACTION-366 -- Lee Feigenbaum to remind Sandro about registering JSON & Update MIME types, and checking on the Query and XML format status -- due 2011-01-25 -- OPEN
14:36:56 [trackbot]
14:38:04 [AndyS]
q+ to ask about CSV/TSV Note
14:38:07 [axelpolleres]
topic: AOB
14:38:47 [axelpolleres]
Andy: CSV/TSV schedule...
14:39:38 [axelpolleres]
... shall we publish with the other docs?
14:39:57 [axelpolleres]
Lee: don't want to publish without reviweing myself (chairhat off)
14:40:32 [axelpolleres]
ACTION: lee to review CVS/TSV doc
14:40:33 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-491 - Review CVS/TSV doc [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-07-12].
14:40:43 [LeeF]
14:40:54 [chimezie]
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14:41:35 [axelpolleres]
Axel: let's see whether we can publish CSV/TSV with other docs, when we know next week where the charter and the review are.
14:42:12 [AndyS]
LeeF: no need couple publication to other docs
14:42:34 [axelpolleres]
Axel: the other big topic is the testsuite.
14:43:40 [Zakim]
14:43:41 [bglimm]
14:43:43 [LeeF]
axelpolleres: adjourned
14:43:45 [Zakim]
14:43:46 [Zakim]
14:43:46 [Zakim]
14:43:47 [axelpolleres]
14:43:48 [Zakim]
14:43:48 [Zakim]
14:43:51 [Zakim]
14:44:07 [Zakim]
14:44:29 [alex__]
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14:46:22 [AndyS]
Update needs tests beyond DELETE-INSERT-WHERE and variants.
14:46:59 [kasei]
do we have a list anywhere with things that still need test cases?
14:47:32 [axelpolleres]
we need to collect status of implementation coverage (beyond query)...
14:47:37 [Zakim]
14:47:51 [AndyS]
ADD, MOVE, COPY, DROP, etc etc ... DELETE-INSERT-WHERE and variants is the largest piece of work and may be done.
14:48:06 [AndyS]
Odd - I'm on the call still!
14:48:13 [axelpolleres]
Update, SD, Protocol, implementations.
14:49:24 [axelpolleres]
ACTION: axel to check coverage of test suite (on Update)
14:49:24 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-492 - Check coverage of test suite (on Update) [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-07-12].
14:49:53 [axelpolleres]
multiple requests...
14:51:13 [axelpolleres]
andy: suggests to ask implementers to run full test suite, will give us an idea what is there and what not, in terms of implementations of current tests
14:52:07 [AndyS]
Does not identify missing bits
14:53:30 [AndyS]
Only eyeballs will do that :-(
14:54:20 [AndyS]
ACTION: AndyS, Start wiki page on test coverage
14:54:20 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - AndyS,
14:54:31 [axelpolleres]
idea on wikipage is good... let's see next call. thanks andy!
14:54:36 [Zakim]
14:54:40 [axelpolleres]
adjourned now 4 real
14:54:55 [Zakim]
14:55:13 [axelpolleres]
rrsagent, make records public
14:55:19 [axelpolleres]
bye all
14:55:44 [Zakim]
14:56:48 [axelpolleres]
BTW, I can do the minutes stuff, thanks Lee+greg for scribing
14:59:38 [kasei]
AndyS, are you planning on supporting (or already support?) variable-endpoint SERVICE patterns?
15:00:21 [kasei]
anyone else with an implementation of SERVICE?
15:01:01 [cbuilara]
I have an implementation of SERVICE, but most of the other SPARQL 1.1 things are missing
15:01:58 [kasei]
what's your implementation, cbuilara?
15:02:27 [cbuilara]
it extends a database federation/workflow system calld ogsa-dai
15:02:39 [cbuilara]
I want to upload it to ogsa-dai's svn
15:02:47 [cbuilara]
but I still have to work in it
15:04:12 [kasei]
when might I expect your cvs changes to the service tests?
15:04:39 [AndyS]
kasei - already supported - maybe not static checking for variables definedness though. i used to do everything at runtime - that's need tweaking.
15:05:00 [kasei]
ah, ok.
15:05:09 [kasei]
didn't realize you already did the variable form.
15:05:44 [kasei]
without static checks, do you just spin around at runtime until it's defined? or throw an error if it's not defined when the pattern gets executed?
15:06:06 [Zakim]
15:06:07 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
15:06:09 [Zakim]
Attendees were kasei, +43.664.801.171.aaaa, axelpolleres, cbuilara, MattPerry, +, AndyS, bglimm, LeeF, NickH, alex_, chimezie, pgearon
15:06:55 [cbuilara]
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15:07:13 [AndyS]
Error - maybe skip that row type error which is the runtime thingy. And IIRC it complains greatly.
15:07:14 [cbuilara]
sorry, I got disconnected
15:07:48 [AndyS]
It went through a burst of popularity a few weeks ago (some course work?)
15:08:03 [kasei]
heh. that time of year...
15:09:25 [kasei]
i'm on the fence about whether I want to do the work to do the query planning properly with static checks.
15:10:15 [kasei]
not sure the cost/benefit works out for me right now, but also a bit freaked out about the possible unintended performance (DOS) implications.
15:11:16 [kasei]
cbuilara: did you have an eta on the service test changes?
15:11:24 [cbuilara]
15:11:44 [kasei]
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