13:47:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:47:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/07/05-sparql-irc
13:47:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:47:32 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
13:47:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
13:47:34 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
13:47:35 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:47:35 <trackbot> Date: 05 July 2011
13:47:51 <axelpolleres> thanks trackbot, forgot what I said...
13:48:12 <axelpolleres> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0003.html
13:51:29 <axelpolleres> chair: AxelPolleres
13:51:35 <axelpolleres> regrets: SteveH
13:54:13 <cbuilara> cbuilara has joined #sparql
13:55:52 <cbuilara1> cbuilara1 has joined #sparql
13:57:48 <Olivier> Olivier has joined #sparql
13:59:22 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
13:59:33 <Zakim> +kasei
13:59:45 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql
13:59:53 <Zakim> + +43.664.801.171.aaaa
14:00:04 <axelpolleres> Zakim, aaaa is me
14:00:04 <Zakim> +axelpolleres; got it
14:00:12 <Zakim> +??P2
14:00:16 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P2 is me
14:00:16 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
14:00:45 <Zakim> +MattPerry
14:00:52 <axelpolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:00:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, axelpolleres, cbuilara, MattPerry
14:01:03 <Zakim> + +33.4.92.38.aabb - is perhaps Bert
14:01:04 <Zakim> +??P8
14:01:11 <Zakim> +??P10
14:01:15 <AndyS> zakim, ??P10 is me
14:01:23 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:01:27 <Olivier> zakim, aabb is me
14:01:29 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P8 is me
14:01:39 <Zakim> sorry, Olivier, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
14:01:41 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
14:01:43 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:01:45 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:02:03 <kasei> I can
14:02:09 <axelpolleres> Any volunteers to scribe? thanks, greg!
14:02:17 <kasei> scribenick: kasei
14:02:28 <axelpolleres> scribe: greg
14:02:49 <NickH> zakim, what is the code?
14:02:49 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), NickH
14:03:06 <Zakim> +LeeF
14:03:31 <kasei> sure, if you'd like
14:03:47 <LeeF> scribenick: LeeF
14:03:57 <LeeF> axelpolleres: let's discuss our strategy going forwards
14:04:02 <Zakim> +??P16
14:04:08 <LeeF> topic: Admin
14:04:17 <NickH> Zakim, ??P16 is me
14:04:17 <Zakim> +NickH; got it
14:04:21 <LeeF> axelpolleres: agenda is at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0003.html
14:04:28 <axelpolleres> PROPOSED: approve minutes from last week at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-06-28
14:04:44 <bglimm> I said I can't make it
14:04:49 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
14:04:52 <bglimm> Does that count as regrets?
14:04:55 <LeeF> bglimm, yes
14:05:01 <bglimm> Anyway it's not important
14:05:12 <NickH> Zakim, mute me
14:05:12 <Zakim> NickH should now be muted
14:05:21 <LeeF> +1 to minutes
14:05:23 <axelpolleres> PROPOSED: approve minutes from last week at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-06-28, modulo adding regrets of Birte
14:05:37 <axelpolleres> RESOLVED: approve minutes from last week at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-06-28, modulo adding regrets of Birte
14:05:40 <alex_> alex_ has joined #sparql
14:05:49 <Zakim> +alex_
14:06:15 <chimezie> Zakim, code
14:06:15 <Zakim> I don't understand 'code', chimezie
14:06:16 <axelpolleres> chime, are you able to scribe next time?
14:06:22 <chimezie> Zakim, what is the passcode?
14:06:22 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), chimezie
14:06:28 <chimezie> sure i can scribe
14:06:34 <LeeF> axelpolleres: next meeting is Tuesday, July 12th at same time and place, with chimezie to scribe
14:06:36 <axelpolleres> next time scribe, chime
14:06:53 <axelpolleres> please fill vacation list on http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Vacation_List2011 
14:06:57 <Zakim> +chimezie
14:07:35 <LeeF> q+
14:07:38 <axelpolleres> topic: Liaison: any further urgent news from RDF WG or all resolved with last week's discussion? 
14:07:42 <LeeF> topic: RDF WG
14:07:43 <LeeF> ack me
14:07:59 <LeeF> ACTION-485?
14:07:59 <trackbot> ACTION-485 -- Lee Feigenbaum to talk to Sandro and Eric about the informative note approach to aligning SPARQL with the RDF literal changes -- due 2011-07-05 -- OPEN
14:07:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/485
14:08:23 <AndyS> No minutes of the graph naming ad hoc telecon yet but "to come"
14:11:22 <LeeF> close ACTION-485
14:11:22 <trackbot> ACTION-485 Talk to Sandro and Eric about the informative note approach to aligning SPARQL with the RDF literal changes closed
14:11:37 <LeeF> LeeF: I talked to Sandro, who gave a thumbs up to an informative note that outlines what changes in SPARQL to align with the RDF literal change 
14:11:41 <bglimm> I prefer a separate note, but no strong pref
14:12:03 <LeeF> LeeF: Sandro did suggest flagging tests that are affected by this so that people can legitimately ignore them once RDF 1.1 matures
14:12:17 <AndyS> NB we are not opening XML results doc currently.  
14:12:24 <LeeF> axelpolleres: Would this work better as a single WG Note or as informative notes within all of the affected specificaitons?
14:12:27 <AndyS> If in doc, we have to do that.
14:12:29 <LeeF> LeeF: Interesting! No strong opinion
14:12:46 <LeeF> axelpolleres: Any other opinions? 
14:12:49 <LeeF> axelpolleres: Strawpoll!
14:12:52 <axelpolleres> strawpoll discuss "using SPARQL1.1 with RDF1.1" in separate WG note (+1) or in separate informative sections in existing specs
14:13:10 <chimezie> +1 (separate note)
14:13:14 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:13:14 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
14:13:19 <bglimm> separate note
14:13:20 <Zakim> +pgearon
14:13:23 <LeeF> separate note
14:13:25 <MattPerry> +1 separate note
14:13:27 <kasei> note (0.5)
14:13:27 <axelpolleres> separate note
14:13:30 <Olivier> +1
14:13:39 <AndyS> +1 separate note  (mildly)
14:14:02 <LeeF> LeeF: with a separate note we can probably do this somewhat collaboratively on a wiki page
14:14:20 <cbuilara> +1
14:14:45 <LeeF> ACTION: Axel to setup a wiki page for creating a WG note on how RDF expected changes affect SPARQL 1.1
14:14:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-486 - Setup a wiki page for creating a WG note on how RDF expected changes affect SPARQL 1.1 [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-07-12].
14:15:42 <LeeF> LeeF: Can we have a resolution on this path forwards so that we can communicate it to the RDF WG?
14:15:48 <Zakim> -AndyS
14:15:53 <axelpolleres> PROPOSED: SPARQL1.1 will be specified in terms of RDF1.0 but the WG aims at publishing "using SPARQL1.1 with RDF1.1" as a separate WG Note
14:16:08 <bglimm> +1
14:16:09 <LeeF> +1
14:16:13 <Olivier> +1
14:16:14 <axelpolleres> +1
14:16:16 <cbuilara> +1
14:16:21 <AlexPassant> +1
14:16:24 <pgearon> +!
14:16:27 <pgearon> +1
14:16:38 <chimezie> +1
14:16:47 <AlexPassant> was the original name "RDF1.0" ?
14:17:53 <axelpolleres> RESOLVED: SPARQL1.1 will be specified in terms of RDF1.0 but the WG aims at publishing "using SPARQL1.1 with RDF1.1" as a separate WG Note.
14:17:58 <Zakim> +??P10
14:18:02 <AndyS> zakim, ??P10 is me
14:18:02 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:18:15 <LeeF> (Note, by 1.0 we mean the current RDF Recommendation, and by 1.1 we mean the Recommendations being pursued by the current RDF WG)
14:18:19 <AndyS> q+
14:19:33 <LeeF> LeeF: We should get actions for people to help fill out the WG Note wiki page
14:19:42 <LeeF> AndyS: What about language tags? What do we expect the RDF group to do there?
14:19:52 <LeeF> LeeF: Nothing yet, but maybe they'll make a decision while we're still active and we can consider it then
14:19:55 <LeeF> Topic: Comments
14:19:58 <LeeF> ack AndyS
14:20:07 <bglimm> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments
14:20:08 <axelpolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments#Last_Call_comments
14:20:37 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:20:37 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:20:47 <AndyS> Looks good to send to me.
14:20:50 <LeeF> axelpolleres: Is birte's comment with Andy's rewording OK to me?
14:21:06 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:AZ-1
14:21:17 <LeeF> LeeF: I will look now
14:22:16 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:22:16 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:22:18 <LeeF> LeeF: Looks good to me to send
14:22:26 <bglimm> Yes
14:22:32 <bglimm> will mark it as send
14:22:55 <Zakim> -cbuilara
14:23:05 <kasei> DB-2 is trivial, but needs an OK from somebody else before I send it.
14:23:19 <kasei> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:DB-2
14:23:27 <chimezie> my response to LD could use a look over
14:23:32 <chimezie> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:LD-4
14:24:14 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
14:24:14 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted
14:24:23 <LeeF> LeeF: DB-2 looks OK to me
14:24:41 <LeeF> LeeF: For purely editorial matters, editors should be free to respond to commenters without waiting on OKs from other WG members
14:24:52 <LeeF> chimezie: Composed LD-4 a while back but could use a set of eyes before being sent out
14:25:06 <cbuilara> cbuilara has joined #sparql
14:25:33 <Zakim> +??P2
14:25:34 <chimezie> i will try to get to IM-1 and SJ-1 before the end of the week
14:25:37 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P2 is me
14:25:37 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
14:27:06 <axelpolleres> to all... please check draft responses of open comments and help us getting them sent.
14:27:07 <alex_> alex_ has joined #sparql
14:27:36 <axelpolleres> topic: action review
14:27:38 <axelpolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/open
14:28:28 <chimezie> yes, i think it is accurate / fair to say
14:28:50 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:28:50 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
14:28:58 <chimezie> k, thx
14:30:15 <axelpolleres> ACTION: Carlos to draft a section for the test suite README on the vocabulary for SERVICE test cases.
14:30:15 <trackbot> Created ACTION-487 - Draft a section for the test suite README on the vocabulary for SERVICE test cases. [on Carlos Buil Aranda - due 2011-07-12].
14:30:43 <axelpolleres> close ACTION-477
14:30:43 <trackbot> ACTION-477 Work with Carlos and Sandro on manifest vocabulary for testing SERVICE closed
14:32:24 <axelpolleres> ACTION: axel to ping sandro on re-chartering progress
14:32:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-488 - Ping sandro on re-chartering progress [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-07-12].
14:32:54 <LeeF> chimezie, I made edits to http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:LD-4 -- can you please take a look at them?
14:33:24 <Zakim> +??P12
14:33:32 <chimezie> looks good.  Thanks Lee.  I will send out that response today
14:33:32 <AndyS> zakim, ??P12 is me
14:33:32 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:33:37 <LeeF> thanks, chimezie
14:34:07 <kasei> I've got outstanding comments on the ED of Fed that I'm sending to the list momentarily.
14:34:49 <kasei> I can review
14:35:38 <axelpolleres> ACTION: greg to review outcome of ACTION-462 as soon as it's done
14:35:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-489 - Review outcome of ACTION-462 as soon as it's done [on Gregory Williams - due 2011-07-12].
14:35:54 <axelpolleres> ACTION: axel to review outcome of ACTION-462 as soon as it's done
14:35:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-490 - Review outcome of ACTION-462 as soon as it's done [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-07-12].
14:36:51 <AndyS> ACTION-366
14:36:56 <AndyS> ACTION-366?
14:36:56 <trackbot> ACTION-366 -- Lee Feigenbaum to remind Sandro about registering JSON & Update MIME types, and checking on the Query and XML format status -- due 2011-01-25 -- OPEN
14:36:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/366
14:38:04 <AndyS> q+ to ask about CSV/TSV Note
14:38:07 <axelpolleres> topic: AOB
14:38:47 <axelpolleres> Andy: CSV/TSV schedule...
14:39:38 <axelpolleres> ... shall we publish with the other docs?
14:39:57 <axelpolleres> Lee: don't want to publish without reviweing myself (chairhat off)
14:40:32 <axelpolleres> ACTION: lee to review CVS/TSV doc
14:40:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-491 - Review CVS/TSV doc [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-07-12].
14:40:43 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/csv-tsv-results/results-csv-tsv.html
14:40:54 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
14:41:35 <axelpolleres> Axel: let's see whether we can publish CSV/TSV with other docs, when we know next week where the charter and the review are.
14:42:12 <AndyS> LeeF: no need couple publication to other docs
14:42:34 <axelpolleres> Axel: the other big topic is the testsuite.
14:43:40 <Zakim> -chimezie
14:43:41 <bglimm> bye
14:43:43 <LeeF> axelpolleres: adjourned
14:43:45 <Zakim> -MattPerry
14:43:46 <Zakim> -Bert
14:43:46 <Zakim> -bglimm
14:43:47 <axelpolleres> adjourned.
14:43:48 <Zakim> -NickH
14:43:48 <Zakim> -cbuilara
14:43:51 <Zakim> -pgearon
14:44:07 <Zakim> -kasei
14:44:29 <alex__> alex__ has joined #sparql
14:46:22 <AndyS> Update needs tests beyond DELETE-INSERT-WHERE and variants.
14:46:59 <kasei> do we have a list anywhere with things that still need test cases?
14:47:32 <axelpolleres> we need to collect status of implementation coverage (beyond query)...
14:47:37 <Zakim> -AndyS
14:47:51 <AndyS> ADD, MOVE, COPY, DROP, etc etc ... DELETE-INSERT-WHERE and variants is the largest piece of work and may be done.
14:48:06 <AndyS> Odd - I'm on the call still!
14:48:13 <axelpolleres> Update, SD, Protocol, implementations.
14:49:24 <axelpolleres> ACTION: axel to check coverage of test suite (on Update)
14:49:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-492 - Check coverage of test suite (on Update) [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-07-12].
14:49:53 <axelpolleres> multiple requests... 
14:51:13 <axelpolleres> andy: suggests to ask implementers to run full test suite, will give us an idea what is there and what not, in terms of implementations of current tests
14:52:07 <AndyS> Does not identify missing bits
14:53:30 <AndyS> Only eyeballs will do that :-(
14:54:20 <AndyS> ACTION: AndyS, Start wiki page on test coverage
14:54:20 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - AndyS,
14:54:31 <axelpolleres> idea on wikipage is good... let's see next call. thanks andy!
14:54:36 <Zakim> -AndyS.a
14:54:40 <axelpolleres> adjourned now 4 real
14:54:55 <Zakim> -alex_
14:55:13 <axelpolleres> rrsagent, make records public
14:55:19 <axelpolleres> bye all
14:55:44 <Zakim> -axelpolleres
14:56:48 <axelpolleres> BTW, I can do the minutes stuff, thanks Lee+greg for scribing
14:59:38 <kasei> AndyS, are you planning on supporting (or already support?) variable-endpoint SERVICE patterns?
15:00:21 <kasei> anyone else with an implementation of SERVICE?
15:01:01 <cbuilara> I have an implementation of SERVICE, but most of the other SPARQL 1.1 things are missing
15:01:58 <kasei> what's your implementation, cbuilara?
15:02:27 <cbuilara> it extends a database federation/workflow system calld ogsa-dai
15:02:39 <cbuilara> I want to upload it to ogsa-dai's svn
15:02:47 <cbuilara> but I still have to work in it
15:04:12 <kasei> when might I expect your cvs changes to the service tests?
15:04:39 <AndyS> kasei - already supported - maybe not static checking for variables definedness though.  i used to do everything at runtime - that's need tweaking.
15:05:00 <kasei> ah, ok.
15:05:09 <kasei> didn't realize you already did the variable form.
15:05:44 <kasei> without static checks, do you just spin around at runtime until it's defined? or throw an error if it's not defined when the pattern gets executed?
15:06:06 <Zakim> -LeeF
15:06:07 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
15:06:09 <Zakim> Attendees were kasei, +43.664.801.171.aaaa, axelpolleres, cbuilara, MattPerry, +33.4.92.38.aabb, AndyS, bglimm, LeeF, NickH, alex_, chimezie, pgearon
15:06:55 <cbuilara> cbuilara has joined #sparql
15:07:13 <AndyS> Error - maybe skip that row type error which is the runtime thingy.  And IIRC it complains greatly.
15:07:14 <cbuilara> sorry, I got disconnected
15:07:48 <AndyS> It went through a burst of popularity a few weeks ago (some course work?)
15:08:03 <kasei> heh. that time of year...
15:09:25 <kasei> i'm on the fence about whether I want to do the work to do the query planning properly with static checks.
15:10:15 <kasei> not sure the cost/benefit works out for me right now, but also a bit freaked out about the possible unintended performance (DOS) implications.
15:11:16 <kasei> cbuilara: did you have an eta on the service test changes?
15:11:24 <cbuilara> tomorrow
15:11:44 <kasei> ok
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