13:57:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #xproc
13:57:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-xproc-irc
13:57:34 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #xproc
13:57:37 <Norm> zakim, this will be xproc
13:57:37 <Zakim> ok, Norm; I see XML_PMWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:57:49 <Norm> zakim, what's the passcode?
13:57:49 <Zakim> the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), Norm
13:57:55 <Zakim> XML_PMWG()10:00AM has now started
13:58:02 <Zakim> +Norm
13:58:14 <Norm> Norm has changed the topic to: XProc WG meets 30 June: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/30-agenda (Norm)
13:58:28 <Zakim> +??P19
13:58:29 <Norm> Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
13:58:29 <Norm> Date: 30 June 2011
13:58:29 <Norm> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/30-agenda
13:58:29 <Norm> Meeting: 195
13:58:29 <Norm> Chair: Norm
13:58:30 <Norm> Scribe: Norm
13:58:32 <Norm> ScribeNick: Norm
13:58:33 <Zakim> -Norm
13:58:33 <Zakim> +Norm
13:58:44 <Norm> zakim, ??p19 is jimfuller
13:58:44 <Zakim> +jimfuller; got it
14:00:15 <Zakim> +[ArborText]
14:00:51 <Zakim> +Alex_Milows
14:01:01 <Zakim> -jimfuller
14:01:22 <Vojtech> Vojtech has joined #xproc
14:01:36 <Zakim> +??P28
14:01:44 <ht> zakim, ? is me
14:01:44 <Zakim> +ht; got it
14:01:51 <Norm> zakim, who's here?
14:01:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Norm, PGrosso, Alex_Milows, ht
14:01:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see Vojtech, Zakim, RRSAgent, Norm, PGrosso, jimfuller, ht, Liam
14:01:57 <alexmilowski> alexmilowski has joined #xproc
14:02:14 <Norm> Present: Norm, Paul, Alex, Henry, Jim
14:02:17 <Zakim> +Jeroen
14:02:25 <Vojtech> zakim, jeroen is Vojtech
14:02:25 <Zakim> +Vojtech; got it
14:02:27 <Norm> Present: Norm, Paul, Alex, Henry, Jim, Vojtech
14:02:33 <jimfuller> coming back in on mute
14:02:35 <jimfuller> um mute button was the stop button, brb
14:02:43 <Norm> Topic: Accept this agenda?
14:02:43 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/30-agenda
14:02:48 <Norm> Accepted.
14:02:53 <Norm> Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
14:02:53 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/06/09-minutes
14:02:58 <Norm> Accepted.
14:03:03 <Norm> Topic: Next meeting: telcon, 14 July 2011?
14:03:04 <jimfuller> on mute
14:03:19 <Zakim> +??P32
14:03:23 <Norm> Vojtech gives regrets.
14:03:28 <jimfuller> back
14:03:32 <Norm> zakim, ??p32 is jimfuller
14:03:32 <Zakim> +jimfuller; got it
14:03:44 <Norm> Topic: Validation in XML processor profiles
14:04:09 <Norm> Norm: Henry, we asked you to take a look.
14:04:18 <Norm> Henry: Yes. After looking at it for a while, I don't think it belongs in this spec.
14:05:23 <Norm> ...It's a one-clause statement. Instead of someone saying "the input processing for my spec is the whatever profile", they say "comes from a *validating* processor that conforms to the whatever profile"
14:05:52 <Norm> ...That seems to be the right way to do it, and we already have a statement about the fact that some properties, such as element-content-whitespace depend on whether or not you have a validating processor.
14:06:13 <Norm> Norm: Because the only difference is ... element content whitespace?
14:06:25 <Norm> Henry: Well, even if that wasn't true, I don't htink I'd want to make 2n profiles where we have n today.
14:06:29 <Norm> s/htink/think
14:06:38 <Norm> ...It's the wrong place to multiply things.
14:06:51 <Norm> ...And element-content-whitespace is the only place where it isn't completely orthogonal.
14:07:04 <Norm> Alex: Validation is either the input or the output, depending on where you're doing it.
14:07:19 <Norm> s/either the/either on the/
14:07:22 <Zakim> -jimfuller
14:07:49 <Norm> Henry: Indeed. Another thing I failed to put in the email is that there are "n" schema languages out there and which one(s) you want to require is up to you.
14:08:08 <jimfuller> thunderstorm here in Prague messing with telcoms
14:08:14 <jimfuller> flwing via irc
14:08:50 <Norm> Alex: I think it would behoove us to have a specific section to enumerate some of these things. It's a "How Should You Consider Validation" section.
14:09:04 <Norm> Henry: I agree. I'll try to draft that.
14:09:11 <jimfuller> +1 to that, good idea
14:09:24 <Norm> ACTION: Henry to draft a new section for XML processor profiles that discusses how to consider validation.
14:09:37 <Norm> Henry: Mention E-C-WS, mention before or after, mention alternative schema languages.
14:10:13 <Norm> Topic: Do we say enough about xml:base in steps like p:add-attribute
14:11:31 <Norm> Norm attempts to reconstruct the XProc/Core xml:base discussion.
14:12:01 <Norm> Alex: The question is, if you add or change an xml:base attribute in the DOM in a browser, what should happen to the base URI property.
14:12:10 <Norm> Henry: There's nothing in the XProc spec that you're concerned about.
14:12:27 <Zakim> -Alex_Milows
14:12:36 <alexmilowski> lost me ...
14:12:49 <Zakim> +Alex_Milows
14:13:10 <Norm> ...So the question is, given that HTML5 gives you a way of changing all kinds of stuff in the DOM, should we say something about what changing the xml:base attribute means.
14:13:29 <Norm> Paul: In the past, we've always stayed away from the editing cases, and dealt with what it means to parse a document.
14:13:46 <Norm> Henry: I think we want XML Core to ask HTML5 to make it explicit about what happens when you change xml:base.
14:14:19 <Norm> Alex: In HTML5 the specific case is that xml:base *does* effect the base URI of things like images. Now if you go back and add an xml:base attribute, what should happen?
14:14:51 <Norm> ...I think from a browser implementor perspective, the sane thing to say is that the base URI changes but no URIs are recomputed.
14:15:04 <Norm> ...It's not just HTML5 that has this problem.
14:15:59 <Norm> Paul: So what I hear is that someone should point out that HTML5 should say what happens when you change xml:base.
14:18:03 <Norm> Alex: I opened a bug, http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12924 on the issue.
14:18:55 <jimfuller> reading the bug
14:19:14 <PGrosso> HT points out that it would make a stronger statement if a WG filed such a comment.
14:19:41 <PGrosso> Paul suggested the xproc WG could do that. ht thought it might make more sense for the xml core wg to do it.
14:20:05 <PGrosso> Paul could live with it either way as long as someone else (e.g., Alex, Henry, Norm) writes the comment.
14:20:19 <Norm> Norm argues we've done enough. Henry counters that it means more if it comes from a WG when reviewed by the Director.
14:21:34 <Norm> Paul: I think it makes more sense to come from XProc.
14:21:54 <jimfuller> me too
14:22:08 <Norm> Alex: Would you take the action to write the comment and send it to our list for review.
14:22:18 <Norm> s/Alex:/Norm:/
14:22:22 <Norm> Alex: Sure.
14:22:33 <Norm> ACTION: Alex to draft a comment about xml:base processing for the XProc WG to send to HTML5 WG.
14:23:09 <Norm> Norm: I'm inclined to leave the question about whether or not our spec says enough off until Henry returns.
14:23:16 <Norm> ...Any objections?
14:23:17 <Norm> None heard.
14:23:22 <Norm> Topic: Any other business?
14:23:28 <Norm> None heard.
14:23:38 <Zakim> -PGrosso
14:23:39 <Zakim> -Norm
14:23:39 <Zakim> -Vojtech
14:23:40 <Zakim> -Alex_Milows
14:23:42 <Norm> Adjourned.
14:23:46 <Norm> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
14:23:49 <Norm> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:23:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-xproc-minutes.html Norm
14:24:23 <PGrosso> PGrosso has left #xproc
15:05:05 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, ht, in XML_PMWG()10:00AM
15:05:11 <Zakim> XML_PMWG()10:00AM has ended
15:05:18 <Zakim> Attendees were Norm, jimfuller, PGrosso, Alex_Milows, ht, Vojtech
16:05:48 <Zakim> Zakim has left #xproc
17:04:52 <ht> ht has joined #xproc