IRC log of gld on 2011-06-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:08:05 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #gld
13:08:05 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:08:07 [sandro]
Topic: Introductions
13:08:10 [sandro]
Dan Gilman
13:08:33 [sandro]
zakim, this is gld
13:08:33 [Zakim]
ok, sandro; that matches SW_e-Gov(GLDWG)8:00AM
13:08:35 [sandro]
zakim, who is here?
13:08:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.703.292.aaaa, HadleyBeeman, +49.721.aabb, ??P1, ??P6
13:08:37 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, BernadetteHyland, martinAlvarez, bkaempgen, boris, George, wbrafford, SimonWall, Zakim, danbri, HadleyBeeman, cygri, sandro, gtw, Ansgar_Scherp, trackbot
13:08:39 [sandro]
rrsagent, log is public
13:08:39 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'log is public', sandro. Try /msg RRSAgent help
13:09:01 [Zakim]
13:09:05 [sandro]
Zakim, who is here?
13:09:05 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.703.292.aaaa, HadleyBeeman, +49.721.aabb, ??P1, ??P6, ??P7
13:09:07 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, BernadetteHyland, martinAlvarez, bkaempgen, boris, George, wbrafford, SimonWall, Zakim, danbri, HadleyBeeman, cygri, sandro, gtw, Ansgar_Scherp, trackbot
13:09:12 [DruidSmith]
DruidSmith has joined #GLD
13:09:23 [johnlsheridan]
johnlsheridan has joined #gld
13:09:32 [sandro]
in 70s was the Census Bureau, now at Bureau of Labor Statistics
13:09:34 [sandro]
chair of US IT Metadata Committee
13:09:39 [sandro]
RRSAgent, make log public
13:09:43 [sandro]
Simon Wall, at Aus. B. Statistics
13:10:01 [boris]
Zakim, P7 is me
13:10:01 [Zakim]
sorry, boris, I do not recognize a party named 'P7'
13:10:29 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.566.aacc
13:11:10 [johnlsheridan]
Sandro, what is the log-in code?
13:11:16 [Zakim]
13:11:25 [sandro]
johnlsheridan, GLDWG
13:11:29 [sandro]
zakim, what is the code?
13:11:29 [Zakim]
the conference code is 45394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.203.318.0479), sandro
13:12:19 [Zakim]
13:12:29 [sandro]
johnlsheridan, is that you?
13:12:35 [martinAlvarez]
zakim, ??P6 is martinAlvarez
13:12:35 [Zakim]
+martinAlvarez; got it
13:12:51 [martinAlvarez]
zakim, mute me
13:12:51 [Zakim]
martinAlvarez should now be muted
13:13:08 [Zakim]
13:13:10 [boris]
zakim, ??P7 is me
13:13:10 [Zakim]
+boris; got it
13:13:23 [Yigal]
Yigal has joined #gld
13:13:25 [Cory-C]
Cory-C has joined #GLD
13:17:40 [sandro]
remote folks -- Webcam is working...
13:18:07 [Zakim]
+ +1.303.275.aadd
13:18:10 [johnlsheridan]
great to have webcam view
13:19:07 [sandro]
johnlsheridan, are you on the phone now, too?
13:19:12 [johnlsheridan]
13:19:16 [sandro]
13:19:27 [bkaempgen]
+49.721.aabb has bkaempgen
13:19:37 [bkaempgen]
zakim, +49.721.aabb has bkaempgen
13:19:37 [Zakim]
+bkaempgen; got it
13:19:57 [sandro]
Ernie: NITRD works with 16 - 19 agencies of the US Govt to collab/coord IT among the agencies.
13:20:32 [sandro]
... if we see a serious problem with technology, we'll put together information about what we want the govt (congress, ostp, ...) to do. communication from the agencies, to make sure innovation happens.
13:20:36 [BernadetteHyland]
Ernie Lucier from US NITRD speaking on outreach & education to communicate with US Agencies on what needs to be done to ensure innovation happens ... or explains why it is not.
13:20:58 [sandro]
... we also put together the budget summaries of the agencies. annual report, R&D supplement to federal budget.
13:21:31 [George]
13:21:59 [George]
John, can I link to your preso's?
13:22:04 [sandro]
ernie: There's a 5 year lag from IT budget increases to results.
13:22:30 [johnlsheridan]
George, sure - I added a link in the wiki earlier today - is that ok?
13:22:31 [sandro]
ernie: So, we want to look at and figure out what we want the governments to do.
13:23:05 [George]
@JLS yes - thanks!
13:23:43 [sandro]
bern: So how should we best focus this?
13:23:56 [sandro]
ernie: why is this important, what does it do for the country
13:24:15 [sandro]
bern: CIO Counsel, subcommitee. Are there equiv forums?
13:24:46 [sandro]
ernie: I don't know specifically. We have conferences, and put together documents (not exactly white papers). We're a relatively small agency.
13:26:14 [sandro]
topic: John Sheridan
13:26:27 [BernadetteHyland]
Is there an equivalent to the CIO Councel Data Subcommittee for NITR?
13:26:57 [sandro]
johnlsheridan: I happen to be calling from 500-person OKFN event in Berlin. Amazing event
13:27:49 [Debbie]
Debbie has joined #gld
13:29:47 [sandro]
johnlsheridan: "... published in an open and standardised format". Very important to have that phrase in the document.
13:31:34 [DruidSmith]
zakim, +1.202.566.aacc is me
13:31:34 [Zakim]
+DruidSmith; got it
13:34:04 [BartVanLeeuwen]
BartVanLeeuwen has joined #gld
13:42:13 [SimonWall]
13:42:47 [SimonWall]
zakim, help
13:42:47 [Zakim]
Please refer to for more detailed help.
13:42:50 [Zakim]
Some of the commands I know are:
13:42:52 [Zakim]
xxx is yyy - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx
13:42:55 [Zakim]
if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted
13:42:58 [Zakim]
xxx may be yyy - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx
13:43:00 [Zakim]
I am xxx - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx
13:43:02 [Zakim]
xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group
13:43:04 [Zakim]
xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx
13:43:06 [Zakim]
who's here? - lists the participants on the phone
13:43:09 [Zakim]
who's muted? - lists the participants who are muted
13:43:11 [Zakim]
mute xxx - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)
13:43:14 [Zakim]
unmute xxx - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#
13:43:17 [Zakim]
is xxx here? - reports whether a party named like xxx is present
13:43:20 [Zakim]
list conferences - reports the active conferences
13:43:21 [Zakim]
this is xxx - associates this channel with conference xxx
13:43:23 [Zakim]
excuse us - disconnects from the irc channel
13:43:25 [Zakim]
I last learned something new on $Date: 2010/03/15 18:49:04 $
13:43:31 [SimonWall]
zakim, who's here
13:43:31 [Zakim]
SimonWall, you need to end that query with '?'
13:43:35 [SimonWall]
zakim, who's here?
13:43:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.703.292.aaaa, HadleyBeeman, +49.721.aabb, ??P1, boris, DruidSmith (muted), martinAlvarez (muted), ??P12, +1.303.275.aadd
13:43:35 [BernadetteHyland]
John Sheridan's conclusions: Re-use LD standards, lightweight vocabularies, including data "cube", oragnization, provenance. Create local specializations, e.g., payments & central gov't.
13:43:37 [Zakim]
+49.721.aabb has bkaempgen
13:43:38 [Zakim]
On IRC I see BartVanLeeuwen, Debbie, Cory-C, Yigal, johnlsheridan, DruidSmith, RRSAgent, BernadetteHyland, martinAlvarez, bkaempgen, boris, George, wbrafford, SimonWall, Zakim,
13:43:41 [Zakim]
... danbri, HadleyBeeman, cygri, sandro, gtw, Ansgar_Scherp, trackbot
13:44:13 [BernadetteHyland]
John Sheridan: Data "Cube" vocab very useful for them for payments.
13:45:44 [BernadetteHyland]
John Sheridan: Highlighted many reference data sets that were developed for the UK Gov't. One example was for British time intervals for linking statistical & organisational data.
13:48:17 [BernadetteHyland]
John Sheridan: quoted a great Malcolm Gladwell description for the "Chop-o-matic", starts with: ”And how do you persuade people to disrupt their lives?"
13:49:10 [BernadetteHyland]
John Sheridan highlighted Linked Data API was the way to accommodate people who wanted different approaches, JSON, APIs, etc.
13:51:42 [BernadetteHyland]
John Sheridan: Hundreds of UK Gov't organisations have published organisational data as LD, but critically, the data is deeply LINKED. Cross dataset queries were the most interesting.
13:52:32 [BernadetteHyland]
The process was simple - capture, upload spreadsheet, preview organogram, download RDF & two CSVs, and publish on your website & register with
13:54:06 [Zakim]
+ +49.261.287.aaee
13:55:13 [Jeanne]
Jeanne has joined #gld
13:55:21 [BernadetteHyland]
John Sheridan: Linked Data adds value via reconcilation (linking to other data). The big selling point to gov't executives (#10 Downing St) was visualisations and being able to embed on their own website.
13:56:29 [BernadetteHyland]
John Sheridan: have really focused on making publishing easy, focused on education & outreach & took a Chop-o-matic approach (see Gladwell quote). Plus a bit of promotion to keep momentum.
13:56:43 [bkaempgen]
13:56:47 [sandro]
13:57:17 [sandro]
ack bkaempgen
13:57:24 [boris]
boris is here btw
13:57:41 [George]
13:59:40 [BernadetteHyland]
queue +
13:59:52 [sandro]
13:59:55 [George]
14:00:02 [BernadetteHyland]
14:01:23 [chrism]
chrism has joined #gld
14:01:30 [sandro]
sandro: why excel vs webapp?
14:02:08 [sandro]
johnlsheridan: policy rules were changing in real time -- eg disclose total pay, phone number, etc it was easier and cheaper and quicker
14:02:14 [sandro]
PRESENT: Dan, Chris, Sandro, GeorgeT, Katherine, Cory, MikeP, Bob, Ernie, Irene, Greg, Yigal, Brafford, Anne, Bern, Tina, Gerald
14:02:37 [sandro]
(I hope I got everyone's name right, sitting around the room)
14:03:04 [BernadetteHyland]
GeorgeT asks JohnS for case studies with metrics, ROI details ...
14:03:36 [sandro]
johnlsheridan: Where are all the IT people in govt? useful to have that query/results.
14:03:51 [sandro]
johnlsheridan: Query of top-paid folks in govt.
14:04:15 [sandro]
johnlsheridan: Guardian newspaper did some analysis of the data.
14:05:09 [sandro]
PRESENT: Dan, Chris, Sandro, GeorgeT, Katherine, Cory, MikeP, Bob, Rick, Ernie, Irene, Greg, Yigal, Brafford, Anne, Bern, Tina, Gerald
14:06:19 [HadleyBeeman]
Great presentation, John. Thanks!
14:06:33 [George]
thanks again John!
14:06:50 [johnlsheridan]
Cheers Hadley (it was hard to do on the phone)
14:10:13 [BernadetteHyland]
Currently listening to Boris Villazon Terrazas on Government Linked Data Research Projects in Spain, see wiki for link to presentation:
14:11:18 [BernadetteHyland]
Boris: Outlined the process they are following: identification, modelling, generation of RDF data using tools they've developed, and finally publish & exploit information (using pubby )
14:18:17 [Cory-C]
14:19:06 [johnlsheridan]
For me too - happy to write up our work for the GLD WG
14:19:25 [Cory-C]
14:20:49 [BernadetteHyland]
Speaking now is Hadley Beeman from the UK re: LinkedGov and the issues they faced around the 'grunt work' of LinkedGov
14:21:11 [sandro]
topic: Hadley Beeman, UK LinkedGov
14:21:21 [BernadetteHyland]
Hadley: working for efficiencies in public & private sector communication
14:21:49 [sandro]
"hundreds of thousands of data teams" did I get that right?
14:29:37 [annew]
annew has joined #gld
14:30:40 [BernadetteHyland]
Hadley: Working on tools to better incent government to provide high quality, reusable information so the public can more quickly get accurate answers (and avoid more costly human intervention).
14:30:40 [johnlsheridan]
+1 to Hadley re provenance
14:32:16 [BernadetteHyland]
Hadley: mentioned usefulness of provenance work that has been done for their work ... talked about what is realistic given budgets & time available, and what can be expected of the public to help.
14:32:20 [johnlsheridan]
Hadley, we should have a chat sometime about linking definitions (terms) to terms defined in legislation
14:33:11 [johnlsheridan]
Hadley, nice presentation - an important contribution. Government Linked Data is all about the ecosystem
14:34:08 [sandro]
topic: Anne Washington, Legacy Data
14:34:16 [HadleyBeeman]
Yes, Sandro - that's an estimate, but there are a lot of public bodies and data teams in the UK. ( "hundreds of thousands of data teams"     did I get that right?)
14:35:18 [HadleyBeeman]
John, that chat would be great. I've been thinking about that (from our last conversation); huge potential in enriching the data by linking to/through legislation.
14:35:19 [johnlsheridan]
Sandro, depends what you count - if you count parish councils, school boards, the number of separate public bodies with data, is massive
14:35:52 [HadleyBeeman]
(And thanks, John— you're right, it isn't easy on the phone!)
14:36:20 [BernadetteHyland]
Anne L. Washington on Deliverables related to Stability & Legacy Data activites
14:37:04 [BernadetteHyland]
Please see the updated agenda on
14:37:15 [HadleyBeeman]
John and Sandro: also, most public bodies have multiple disparate teams publishing data on different topics.
14:37:34 [Zakim]
14:38:15 [BernadetteHyland]
Anne Washington: Be sure to recognize government timescale, it is slower than industry and therefore solution need to accommodate the pace.
14:39:12 [johnlsheridan]
+1 to Anne re sustainability. Especially important re URIs. One answer is to write contract requirements for maintaining a URI Set, and publish the contract. so, for legislation, maintaining the URI Set is a requirement on the contractor for next 5 years. Better still would be statutory requirements, but we are a ways off with that for URIs
14:39:13 [BernadetteHyland]
Anne: On Legacy Data, everyone wants things in RDF, but it would better considered a "search problem" first & foremost. We don't need perfect data out of the gates.
14:39:46 [sandro]
okay, thanks, HadleyBeeman, johnlsheridan :)
14:40:23 [BernadetteHyland]
Anne: Best practice on Stability - there are different appoaches (e.g., handles, PURLs) which is OK. Library of Congress used handles, US GPO used PURLs.
14:41:04 [BernadetteHyland]
Anne: Look at areas of innovation, but keep stability at front of the queue. That is what matters in gov't.
14:41:31 [johnlsheridan]
Btw, we are looking to support URN:Lex too (as some others use that) off the back of our Linked Data RDF store. Preferring HTTP URIs doesn't mean you can't play nicely with other approaches. Very similar issue wrt other URNs. We should link from http URIs to URN based schemes, where they have traction
14:42:05 [BernadetteHyland]
Anne: Initial stability characteristics include naming (persistent, predicatble, distributed resolution, scalable, legacy, naming), Location, Levels of Granularity.
14:43:19 [BernadetteHyland]
Anne: "Standards work when they are bite size enough to take home and show their manager."
14:43:40 [johnlsheridan]
14:46:02 [Zakim]
14:46:28 [johnlsheridan]
We do this deep linking, eg (subsection 1 - resolves to a frag id in a doc)
14:47:15 [Zakim]
14:47:51 [BernadetteHyland]
Michael Aisentberg: Asked question around authoritative version, provenence of content. Referenced the Cornell site...
14:48:27 [tobo]
tobo has joined #gld
14:48:49 [BernadetteHyland]
Anne: It needs to come from official source, the people who created it. "We want to make sure it is the government on the Web and not a dog behind it." Must have a gov't URL behind it & ensure Gov't keeps it current.
14:49:34 [BernadetteHyland]
Anne: Consider having a PURL behind the link for continuity. Australians and UK are way ahead of us on this.
14:51:00 [Zakim]
14:51:02 [Zakim]
14:51:08 [BernadetteHyland]
Katherine G (from L3 Communications): Asked a question about Federal Register still being printed in this day and age. (Note: Federal Register is available digitally).
14:51:20 [Zakim]
+ +1.440.389.aaff
14:51:23 [tobo]
Tope Omitola in .
14:51:35 [HadleyBeeman]
zakim, +1.440.389.aaff is me
14:51:35 [Zakim]
+HadleyBeeman; got it
14:51:36 [annew]
and johnsheridan didn't pay me to say what a great job they are doing.
14:51:57 [tobo]
No problem.
14:52:11 [johnlsheridan]
waves to annew - thank you - agreed with a lot of your talk
14:53:20 [tobo]
Could somebody mute their mike.
14:55:19 [BernadetteHyland]
Anne: Asked Hadley question about how her work is funded. Hadley said funding comes from UK Government Technology STrategy Board and they are exploring a "freemium" model too.
14:55:51 [BernadetteHyland]
We're taking a quick 3 min stretch break. Back at 11:00AM US ET with Michael Aisenberg's talk on Privacy & gov't data.
14:56:25 [johnlsheridan]
I'm going to have to go. Really sorry I couldn't be there or stay for longer (as I'm at OKCon) - really enjoyed the presentations I heard - looking forward to contributing to the WG. There is lots for us all to do!
14:56:54 [Zakim]
14:57:17 [Zakim]
14:58:57 [HadleyBeeman]
zakim, who's here?
14:58:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.703.292.aaaa, +49.721.aabb, ??P1, DruidSmith (muted), martinAlvarez (muted), +1.303.275.aadd, +49.261.287.aaee, Jeanne, ??P35 (muted), HadleyBeeman
14:59:03 [Zakim]
+49.721.aabb has bkaempgen
14:59:06 [Zakim]
On IRC I see tobo, chrism, Jeanne, BartVanLeeuwen, Debbie, Cory-C, DruidSmith, RRSAgent, BernadetteHyland, martinAlvarez, bkaempgen, boris, George, wbrafford, SimonWall, Zakim,
14:59:12 [Zakim]
... danbri, HadleyBeeman, cygri, sandro, gtw, Ansgar_Scherp, trackbot
15:02:19 [Yigal]
Yigal has joined #gld
15:04:45 [tobo]
15:05:32 [Yigal_]
Yigal_ has joined #gld
15:10:27 [BernadetteHyland]
Michael Aisenberg (MITRE) on Privacy and Personally Identifiable Information (PII).
15:10:39 [sandro]
Topic: Michael Aisenberg (MITRE) on Privacy and Personally Identifiable Information (PII).
15:12:15 [BernadetteHyland]
What makes the US Gov't a bit different is special treatment of individual's data in sectors - specifically, children (COPPA), Health info (HIPAA), banking & financial service info (Sarbanes/Oxley), and global presense of US collectors.
15:12:37 [annew]
annew has joined #gld
15:12:40 [BernadetteHyland]
s/presense/presence of U.S. collectors: EU Safe Harbor Agreement
15:18:53 [Zakim]
- +1.303.275.aadd
15:20:56 [SimonWall]
zakim, ??P1 is me
15:20:56 [Zakim]
+SimonWall; got it
15:23:10 [SimonWall]
zakim, who's here
15:23:10 [Zakim]
SimonWall, you need to end that query with '?'
15:23:14 [SimonWall]
zakim, who's here?
15:23:14 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.703.292.aaaa, +49.721.aabb, SimonWall, DruidSmith (muted), martinAlvarez (muted), +49.261.287.aaee, Jeanne, ??P35 (muted), HadleyBeeman
15:23:20 [Zakim]
+49.721.aabb has bkaempgen
15:23:24 [Zakim]
On IRC I see annew, Yigal_, tobo, chrism, Jeanne, BartVanLeeuwen, Debbie, Cory-C, DruidSmith, RRSAgent, BernadetteHyland, martinAlvarez, bkaempgen, boris, George, wbrafford,
15:23:29 [Zakim]
... SimonWall, Zakim, danbri, HadleyBeeman, cygri, sandro, gtw, Ansgar_Scherp, trackbot
15:26:53 [BernadetteHyland]
Yigal: Asked a question about international collection of PII data.
15:28:36 [BernadetteHyland]
Michael: Highly granular control of PII is commensurate with US & UK ... US corporations have a weak burden of duty for PII they collect from citizens.
15:29:02 [DruidSmith]
DruidSmith has joined #gld
15:31:04 [sandro]
dan: (question missed)
15:31:07 [Zakim]
15:31:14 [Zakim]
15:31:18 [sandro]
kath: nstic connections?
15:31:27 [BartVanLeeuwen]
Zakim, ??P31 is me
15:31:27 [Zakim]
+BartVanLeeuwen; got it
15:31:48 [sandro]
mikea: my colleage, Weitzl, ... we might have a MITRE or ABA comment.
15:32:09 [Zakim]
15:32:41 [Zakim]
15:34:14 [BernadetteHyland]
Speaking now is Cory Casanave on Solving the pervasive Data Problem
15:36:36 [BernadetteHyland]
Please see the updated agenda on if you are speaking, please check. Appreciate your understanding as the schedule has changed to accommodate the many good talks people having been giving ... and the Q&A that followed.
15:37:49 [BernadetteHyland]
@danbri are you planning to speak on FOAF?
15:39:00 [BernadetteHyland]
Cory: Updated everyone on the Federal Data Architecture Subcommittee - Open Government Vocabularies Wokring Group (OGV).
15:39:01 [danbri]
hello Bernadette, everyone. I'm afraid I only saw Sandro's mail earlier today, and have some other commitments, ... so I was planning only to try to observe quietly from IRC
15:39:27 [HadleyBeeman]
I need to be going… best of luck with the rest of the session. Thanks again for inviting me, BernadetteHyland, George and Sandro!
15:39:38 [BernadetteHyland]
Cory: Caveat - this group can make recommendations, there is a White Paper on this available to this group (not yet public), however, this group has no official authority to mandate anything.
15:39:44 [danbri]
But I would like to say, that if there are changes around FOAF that will make it more useful or appropriate for this audience, I would love to start that conversation
15:40:05 [danbri]
(re long-term maintainance; or downplaying some of the older frivolous terms, etc... or re adding terms)
15:40:27 [sandro]
Thanks for coming, HadleyBeeman !
15:40:45 [HadleyBeeman]
Bye, Sandro!
15:40:49 [annew]
Bye HadleyBeeman. loved what you are doing
15:41:07 [BernadetteHyland]
@danbri are you able to speak at 13:45 US ET today? or is that too late for you?
15:41:15 [HadleyBeeman]
Thanks, Annew. Hope we'll get to talk more about it— we need loads of help. :)
15:41:20 [HadleyBeeman]
Bye, all!
15:43:16 [danbri]
I'm afraid I'll be heading off shortly; would it be possible to start a discussion by email [somewhere?] though?
15:43:56 [sandro]
danbri, how about joiing the WG and discussing it on public-gld-wg ?
15:43:59 [BernadetteHyland]
@danbri - yes, I would suggest that your talk be scheduled for one of our upcoming weekly GLD calls. Would that work for you? Sandro is working on survey results to confirm best time for everyone.
15:44:13 [BernadetteHyland]
@danbri, did you complete survey re: timeslot?
15:45:26 [BernadetteHyland]
Cory: I hope that we can band together on a "common theme, common message to solve data problems."
15:45:35 [bkaempgen]
15:45:44 [danbri]
I didn't complete survey, maybe I can squeeze one more WG into my life... will take a look at the poll and find a way to follow up
15:46:58 [BernadetteHyland]
@danbri ... right, there is word for that ... YAWG (remember YAK and LEX ;-)
15:47:07 [danbri]
15:47:20 [BartVanLeeuwen]
15:47:36 [Ansgar_Scherp]
so, how many WG do you do at the same time?
15:47:36 [BernadetteHyland]
@danbri, even if you don't join formally, having your expertise on reviewing some of the vocab recommendations would be very welcome. You can dabble in our WG ;-)
15:47:40 [sandro]
danbri, -- clear winner at the moment is: Thursdays, 7am San Francisco, 10am Boston, 3pm London, 4pm Paris
15:48:07 [danbri]
thanks! having some partial involvement without feeling guilty for not being 100% member would be ideal...
15:48:38 [BernadetteHyland]
Speaking is Katherine (L3)
15:49:09 [BernadetteHyland]
@topo - are you ready to speak, you are on deck
15:49:10 [sandro]
kath: Is privacy one of these domains?
15:49:12 [sandro]
cory: Yes
15:49:42 [BobDuCharme]
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15:49:54 [tobo]
15:50:12 [sandro]
mikea: I think I just had an epiphany. It's hard to get eng. and arch.s to distinguish principles from architecture. but architecture is polticits. although, when creating them, they are sep domains.
15:50:18 [BernadetteHyland]
@sandro ... only in your special world does 30% * 6 = 100%
15:50:32 [tobo]
@BernadetteHyland. Yes, tobo is Ready to talk.
15:50:50 [sandro]
(it actually does add up -- I'm in rif and owl at 0% each, etc.)
15:51:56 [bkaempgen]
Benedikt has to run, Thanks!
15:52:08 [BartVanLeeuwen]
sandro, your webcam stream works brilliant now I'm on better bandwidth
15:52:11 [Zakim]
- +49.721.aabb
15:52:50 [BernadetteHyland]
Tope Omitola from University of Southampton on Provenance Models for Linking Data
15:53:06 [sandro]
topic: Tope Omitola from University of Southampton on Provenance Models for Linking Data
15:53:54 [madalynn]
madalynn has joined #gld
15:55:37 [BernadetteHyland]
@annew there is your dog behind the wheel ... that is a classic cartoon :-)
15:56:05 [SimonWall]
sandro, those times are pretty good for me - midnight in Canberra is not as bad as it could be
15:59:30 [BartVanLeeuwen]
sandro: who is that again on your right side ? ( /me is notoriously bad with names :( )
15:59:51 [annew]
@bernadette glad to have a visual reference for my quote from the New yorker... July 5, 1993
16:00:15 [sandro]
BartVanLeeuwen, that's George Thomas, co-chair. I figure'd I'd let the camera show only Bern for long enough. :-)
16:00:26 [BartVanLeeuwen]
16:00:51 [sandro]
maybe I should slowly move the camera around the room, but it tends to make people dizzy.
16:01:38 [BartVanLeeuwen]
are there minuts from yesterday afternoon somewhere ?
16:02:39 [sandro]
BartVanLeeuwen, there's a raw IRC log, but I'm having some trouble with the proper formatting. (some server bug I can't concentrate on right now.)
16:03:44 [BartVanLeeuwen]
16:04:36 [BartVanLeeuwen]
dinner time here I'll try to back at 14:00 for the charter discussion
16:06:01 [Zakim]
16:06:16 [BernadetteHyland]
@BartVanLeeuwen - what is your evening schedule? Are you able to participate in discussion of charter items at 14:00 US ET or is that too late for you?
16:07:21 [BernadetteHyland]
@topo - 1 minute warning to wrap up please
16:07:43 [BartVanLeeuwen]
@BernadetteHyland , that is my plan, that will be 20:00 here, I just hope you meet that schedule ;)
16:08:00 [BartVanLeeuwen]
I will at least pop back in here then
16:08:33 [BartVanLeeuwen]
16:08:35 [BartVanLeeuwen]
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16:10:25 [BernadetteHyland]
@BartVanLeeuwen - I believe we can make that time. We have a lunch break and only one presentation, by Irene from TopQuadrant before the 14:00 charter discussion ... so I appreciate your hanging around for that.
16:12:11 [BernadetteHyland]
Yigal Arens, Deputy Director, ISS (Information Sciences Institute from USC) on The effect of government support for e-government research
16:13:19 [sandro]
Yigal: dg.o is the major north america egov conf, ...
16:14:15 [BernadetteHyland]
BernadetteHyland has joined #gld
16:15:04 [sandro]
yigal: govt agencies had to be involved in proposal, but then switched to "cluster"
16:16:59 [sandro]
yigal: Digitial gov, like every app, requires additional work from the researcher; unless funded to do so, they are not likely to do it.
16:18:34 [BernadetteHyland]
Yigal: "There is a real loss if there is less research being done for digital government. Decisions made by private sector are very different than those of gov't agencies."
16:19:07 [sandro]
Yigal: Due to lack of govt funding, we see people fleeing the area for the past 10 years.
16:19:29 [BernadetteHyland]
Yigal: "We see researchers fleeing way from digital government due to less grant funding being available in the last 10 years" and that is a real loss.
16:20:00 [annew]
+1 that we need a sustainable business model for doing research that impacts govt technology
16:26:57 [Zakim]
16:26:58 [BernadetteHyland]
Michael: "R&D investment in the USA at established mainstream companies has gone from approximately 18% to below 5% in the last decade. For startups, it is higher typically, but in mainstream companies it has gone down drastically."
16:28:28 [sandro]
mikea: Without the Office of Technology Assessment, there is much less expertise to make these budget decisions.
16:28:35 [BernadetteHyland]
Michael: There isn't sophisticated capabilities to make these arguments in Congress ... in the 1980s-1990s we had university, corporate research & gov't funding to support innovation research.
16:29:01 [annew]
Duly noted that the Congressional Research Service still provides technical nonpartisan advice to Congress.
16:29:07 [sandro]
yigal: The US spends 6% of GDP on research, EU 3%
16:29:21 [tobo]
Folks, I have to go . Good set of speeches. I hope to join again in the afternoon.
16:29:53 [annew]
good work on provenance tobo!
16:30:17 [tobo]
Thanks, annew. Further work still to do on there.
16:30:50 [SimonWall]
Can't hear Irene at all
16:30:57 [SimonWall]
16:31:42 [sandro]
irene: we have
16:32:33 [tobo]
tobo has left #gld
16:32:38 [Zakim]
16:33:11 [BernadetteHyland]
Topic: Irene Polikoff (TopQuadrant) on Linked Data Models
16:33:34 [sandro]
irene: It's a bit frustrating when a lot of work goes into developing a model and it sits unused.
16:34:29 [BernadetteHyland]
See for updated agenda. We are lookingt to start at 13:40 US ET on Charter Items discussion for the benefit of our faithful participants in EU and AU.
16:35:29 [BernadetteHyland]
Irene: Importance of overall ontology architecture and the varying perspectives organizationally.
16:35:48 [sandro]
Irene: VAEM -- Vocab for Attaching Essential Metadata
16:37:13 [sandro]
irene: most of VOiD wasn't directly applicable.
16:41:09 [BernadetteHyland]
Irene: discussed the QUDT (quantities, units, dimension and types) work they've done, see Very useful & revelant to GLD!!!
16:41:37 [BernadetteHyland]
Also see:
16:44:00 [BernadetteHyland]
Irene: Mentioned oeGov: Ontologies of US Government work performed by Ralph Hodgeson (TopQuadrant). See
16:45:47 [BernadetteHyland]
Dan: Mentioned ISO IEC11404 - General Purpose Data Types Ontology (pub 2007), freely available.
16:49:21 [Zakim]
- +49.261.287.aaee
16:50:01 [sandro]
Yigal: Correcting numbers on R&D, its 3 and 1.5 % of gdp.
16:50:10 [Zakim]
16:50:15 [SimonWall]
off now, back in an hour
16:50:22 [Zakim]
16:50:38 [Zakim]
- +1.703.292.aaaa
16:51:37 [SimonWall]
SimonWall has left #gld
17:09:12 [John]
John has joined #gld
17:12:33 [BartVanLeeuwen]
BartVanLeeuwen has joined #gld
17:13:02 [Zakim]
17:13:13 [BartVanLeeuwen]
Zakim, ??P11 is me
17:13:14 [Zakim]
+BartVanLeeuwen; got it
17:15:02 [Zakim]
17:18:59 [JeremyCarroll]
JeremyCarroll has joined #gld
17:40:14 [Zakim]
17:40:23 [BartVanLeeuwen]
Zakim, ??P0 is me
17:40:23 [Zakim]
+BartVanLeeuwen; got it
17:40:56 [Zakim]
17:46:35 [martinAlvarez]
martinAlvarez has left #gld
17:48:00 [Zakim]
+ +49.261.287.aagg
17:49:20 [SimonWall]
SimonWall has joined #gld
17:51:17 [martin]
martin has joined #gld
17:52:28 [Zakim]
17:52:40 [martin]
zakim, ??p2 is me
17:52:40 [Zakim]
+martin; got it
17:52:52 [martin]
zakim, mute me
17:52:52 [Zakim]
martin should now be muted
17:53:10 [Zakim]
17:53:16 [Zakim]
17:53:33 [BartVanLeeuwen]
Zakim, ??P4 is me
17:53:33 [Zakim]
+BartVanLeeuwen; got it
17:53:43 [BartVanLeeuwen]
Zakim, please mute me
17:53:43 [Zakim]
BartVanLeeuwen should now be muted
17:54:45 [SimonWall]
zakim, ??p3 is me
17:54:45 [Zakim]
+SimonWall; got it
17:57:04 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.292.aahh
17:58:09 [Zakim]
17:59:39 [IrenePolikoff]
IrenePolikoff has joined #gld
18:01:50 [BernadetteHyland]
BernadetteHyland has joined #gld
18:02:09 [wbrafford]
wbrafford has joined #GLD
18:02:13 [BernadetteHyland]
Getting ready to start, dialed in to conference line now ...
18:04:16 [BernadetteHyland]
Public Account Request Form see,
18:06:54 [Yigal]
Yigal has joined #gld
18:07:51 [George]
18:08:03 [George]
links to
18:08:04 [DruidSmith]
DruidSmith has joined #gld
18:09:39 [SimonWall]
SimonWall has joined #gld
18:10:02 [SimonWall]
\me Zakim, who is here?
18:10:23 [annew]
annew has joined #gld
18:10:53 [BartVanLeeuwen]
hmm my audio connection is really bad :(
18:11:12 [SimonWall]
\me Zakim, who is here?
18:12:19 [Ernie]
Ernie has joined #GLD
18:12:25 [sandro]
topic: Review of Deliverables
18:12:27 [BernadetteHyland]
William Bradford from Revelytix reviewing some early notes on Community Directory Discussion (corresponds to Deliverable 2.1)
18:12:30 [sandro]
subtopic: Community Directory
18:12:57 [sandro]
mikea: "publicity" sounds a bit mendacious, let's go with "outreach"
18:13:12 [sandro]
sandro: let's split pre-wg outreach and post-wg outreach
18:14:36 [sandro]
rick: Structure directory so we know Technology Policy Leaders
18:15:27 [BernadetteHyland]
Rick M: Discussed the Community Directory potentially having a bio and some basic info for the "technology policy leadership"
18:16:05 [BernadetteHyland]
Michael: Suggested doing this by role and not person's name. Maybe an institutional/affiliation contact.
18:16:44 [BernadetteHyland]
Rick M: Open Gov't was a really strong component of incoming US Administration's policy ... when money becomes tight, civil society takes up the "slack" when budgets are reduced.
18:17:10 [BernadetteHyland]
Rick M: e.g., Sunlight Foundation,, others who are taking up the slack.
18:17:54 [BernadetteHyland]
Rick M: We need a plan for engagement with civil society to make it relevant for them, e.g., a listing for Sunlight Foundation,, etc who are fulfilling the social initiatives.
18:18:54 [BernadetteHyland]
Cory: Asked whether "Open Government" initiative still has staying power as a brand.
18:19:24 [BernadetteHyland]
Rick M: Open Government still has "brand" internationally.
18:20:04 [BernadetteHyland]
Michael: "Rule of Law democracy has worked for 100 years" (Jackson)
18:24:18 [BernadetteHyland]
Action Item: Rick - List of policy leaders per country so we know who to engage throughout the world. The second list is a list of organizations in civil society who we think are important to engage with.
18:24:18 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Item
18:25:00 [BartVanLeeuwen]
I know some dutch organisations for list 2
18:28:07 [BartVanLeeuwen]
are there multiple mics ?? some people are easy to understand, some are waaay in the backgroun
18:30:50 [Ernie]
Ernie has joined #GLD
18:32:26 [Zakim]
18:32:46 [SimpsonTP_]
SimpsonTP_ has joined #gld
18:33:07 [SimonWall]
sound was ok for presentations, almost unintelligible now discussion has started
18:33:19 [Zakim]
18:33:35 [Zakim]
18:33:42 [sandro]
sorry, SimonWall, I'm in the room and can barely hear anything.
18:33:58 [sandro]
some sort of after-lunch quietness
18:34:02 [SimpsonTP_]
Zakim, ??P3 is me
18:34:02 [Zakim]
+SimpsonTP_; got it
18:34:22 [Zakim]
18:35:03 [sandro]
can you hear William, speaking right now?
18:35:12 [SimonWall]
yes william ok
18:35:16 [BartVanLeeuwen_]
18:35:41 [martin]
yes, better. Thanks
18:36:49 [BartVanLeeuwen]
some people are stil waaay in the back
18:40:36 [Yigal]
Yigal has joined #gld
18:40:51 [SimonWall]
gone altogether for about 10s then
18:44:05 [BartVanLeeuwen]
please let there be on, one of the confusing things about the semweb is that there is no single entrypoint for e.g. vocabularies
18:44:41 [sandro]
discussion about technology for hosting the directory
18:44:58 [BartVanLeeuwen]
so if we intend to be a starting point, maybe we should just have only 1 entry point ?
18:45:00 [sandro]
we'll solicit offers. fallback to mediawiki
18:45:33 [sandro]
irene: what about having it decentralized?
18:47:42 [sandro]
sandro: Yes, we'll host the central triples, and let other people host their own triples if they want.
18:49:57 [BartVanLeeuwen]
hmm its basicly impossible to follow the discussion over SIP, is it just my having that problem ?
18:51:59 [sandro]
BartVanLeeuwen, we're trying to get people to speak louder, but it's hard....
18:52:04 [SimonWall]
Not able to follow most of the discussion now, I'm done for tonight. Thanks
18:52:14 [Zakim]
18:52:36 [sandro]
goodnight, SimonWall !
18:52:42 [BernadetteHyland]
@SimonWall - good nite mate!
18:53:16 [SimonWall]
No probs
18:53:36 [martin]
BartVanLeeuwen, I have the same problem
18:55:47 [Zakim]
18:58:59 [BartVanLeeuwen]
okay I give up as well, its not possible to follow the discussion like this :(
18:59:30 [annew]
it's not a very coherent discussion even for those of us in the room. sorry
18:59:58 [BartVanLeeuwen]
well at least you probably don't mis every 2nd word ;)
19:01:00 [Zakim]
19:01:20 [BartVanLeeuwen]
okay goodnight all
19:02:26 [sandro]
zakim, who is on the call?
19:02:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +49.261.287.aagg, martin (muted), +1.703.292.aahh, ??P1
19:02:35 [martin]
I have problems to follow the discussion as well. I'll read the minutes.
19:02:40 [martin]
19:02:53 [Zakim]
19:03:09 [martin]
martin has left #gld
19:03:17 [annew]
hey we can hear someone speaking german on the phone
19:03:20 [sandro]
zakim, mute aagg
19:03:20 [Zakim]
+49.261.287.aagg should now be muted
19:03:31 [sandro]
zakim, unmute aagg
19:03:31 [Zakim]
+49.261.287.aagg should no longer be muted
19:03:42 [sandro]
zakim, who is talking?
19:03:55 [Zakim]
sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.703.292.aahh (66%)
19:05:01 [sandro]
zakim, who is talking?
19:05:15 [Zakim]
sandro, listening for 14 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P1 (85%), +1.703.292.aahh (7%)
19:05:22 [sandro]
zakim, mute ??P1
19:05:22 [Zakim]
??P1 should now be muted
19:06:30 [BartVanLeeuwen]
BartVanLeeuwen has left #gld
19:06:51 [Yigal]
Yigal has joined #gld
19:09:59 [sandro]
discussion between Bern and Ernie ... many of us not quite following it.
19:37:28 [Zakim]
19:47:36 [Zakim]
- +49.261.287.aagg
19:54:28 [Zakim]
19:57:24 [sandro]
topic: More Deliverables
19:57:39 [sandro]
george: Dan just offered to lead 2.3.1 :-)
19:58:04 [sandro]
dan: I want to be involved, but how much I can commit, I'm not yet sure. BLS is not a member, and that's not going to happen.
20:01:57 [sandro]
george: talking about 2.2
20:02:05 [sandro]
zakim, who is talking?
20:02:18 [Zakim]
sandro, listening for 13 seconds I heard sound from the following: [IPcaller] (96%), +1.703.292.aahh (42%)
20:02:27 [sandro]
zakim, mute IPcaller
20:02:27 [Zakim]
[IPcaller] should now be muted
20:02:39 [sandro]
zakim, aahh is MeetingRoom
20:02:39 [Zakim]
+MeetingRoom; got it
20:03:09 [sandro]
george: Here is how you can procure what you want from the folks in in the vendor directory. like Section 508.
20:03:28 [sandro]
george: What is that check list of things?
20:04:01 [BernadetteHyland]
Recap from discussion around Deliverables 2.1:
20:04:13 [BernadetteHyland]
The following action items mean that you are willing to initially update the page for each of Deliverables. For each item, please define the attributes to be collected.
20:04:20 [BernadetteHyland]
* Action Item: Support of 2.1.1 - 2.1.4 - Community Directory - Deployments, Vendors, Contractors, Applications - William Bradford
20:04:27 [BernadetteHyland]
* Action Item: Support for 2.1.5 - Community Directory - Research groups, researchers, sources of funding. Yigal Arens
20:04:48 [BernadetteHyland]
* Action Item: Support for 2.1.6 Community Directory - Outreach & advocacy - List of policy leaders per country so we know who to engage throughout the world. The second list is a list of organizations in civil society who we think are important to engage with. Volunteer: Rick Murphy
20:04:57 [sandro]
Katherine: I'm an acquisitions geek. I do this stuff day in and day out. :-)
20:05:00 [BernadetteHyland]
* Action Item: support 2.1.7 Community Directory - Training TO DO: Ask Jeremy C. (TopQuandrant A/C rep) to appoint appropriate person?
20:05:08 [BernadetteHyland]
* Action Item: support 2.3.1 Standard Vocabularies - Metadata. Dan Gilman prepared to review what comes out of this area.
20:05:09 [Zakim]
20:06:00 [sandro]
subtopic: 2.2.2 and 2.2.3
20:06:18 [sandro]
George: What if I'm designing a vocab, and I need to mint some URI?
20:06:33 [sandro]
... A lot of precident in vocab createion
20:06:49 [sandro]
Irene: How do you select a vocab vs do I make my own?
20:07:04 [sandro]
irene: Vs 2.2.3, if I roll my own, I need this.
20:07:21 [sandro]
george: Yes, they are different. You might come out of 2.2.2 needing to do 2.2.3.
20:07:45 [sandro]
george: Many folks have lots of experience with selecting vocabs.
20:08:31 [sandro]
Irene: I'm inclined to volunteer TQ for 2.2.2 (perhaps not me personally)
20:09:30 [sandro]
suggestions for 2.2.3 -- RPI, DERI
20:10:25 [sandro]
subtopic: 2.2.4 Versioning
20:10:58 [sandro]
george: versioning of data and datasets.
20:12:09 [sandro]
cory: I'll do this, if I haven't found something else by the end of this list.
20:15:35 [sandro]
subtopic: 2.2.5 Stability and 2.2.6 Legacy
20:15:43 [sandro]
Anne: I'm interested in stability
20:15:51 [sandro]
Irene: I'm interested in legacy
20:16:21 [sandro]
subtopic: 2.2.7 Cookbook
20:16:37 [sandro]
george: Bern, do you want to do this?
20:16:56 [sandro]
bern: I learned a lot working with EPA on what's needed on a practical level.
20:17:16 [sandro]
bern: MikeP, can you work with me on this, since you have experience as the audience here?
20:17:22 [sandro]
bern: I'll do it, working with Mike
20:17:51 [sandro]
george: this came up in training.... elev pitch. MikeP has done a lot of this.
20:18:28 [sandro]
subtopic: 2.3.1 Metadata
20:18:52 [sandro]
george: liaise with Provenance Interchange WG
20:19:11 [sandro]
RRSAgent, pointer?
20:19:11 [RRSAgent]
20:19:24 [sandro]
george: We saw presentations on DCAT and VOiD
20:19:57 [sandro]
george: TQ-V* ?
20:20:18 [sandro]
george: Tina, do you you know about the Library Linked Data Incubator?
20:20:24 [sandro]
Tina: I'll look into it.
20:20:58 [sandro]
george: maybe Dan....
20:21:15 [sandro]
sandro: cygri
20:22:23 [sandro]
george: also for cube, yes.
20:22:57 [sandro]
George: Tina also expressed intrerest in metadata
20:23:16 [sandro]
tina: Org struct, People, maybe metadata.
20:24:49 [sandro]
Irene: What about the People...?
20:25:35 [sandro]
sandro: Danbri will join us soon to talk about whether we can make FOAF work for us.
20:25:58 [sandro]
sandro: Maybe Todd?
20:26:18 [sandro]
Kath: human geography?
20:26:33 [sandro]
kath; cultural data
20:26:51 [sandro]
bern: like FAO
20:27:18 [sandro]
20:27:40 [sandro]
metadata - ask cygri, dan will review
20:27:54 [sandro]
cube data - ask cygri, dan will review
20:28:24 [sandro]
people - chris, cory, tina
20:28:46 [sandro]
org - tina,dave
20:29:16 [sandro]
geo - chris, dave, mike, todd
20:30:22 [sandro]
gerald --- reviews :-)
20:32:03 [sandro]
george: Andy might be liaison to provenance
20:32:25 [BernadetteHyland]
Summary of George's spectacular Deliverables 2.2 review:
20:32:36 [BernadetteHyland]
* Action Item: support 2.2.1 Best Practices for Publishing LD - Procurement. Volunteer: Katherine
20:32:52 [BernadetteHyland]
That is Katherine (L3 Comm)
20:33:24 [BernadetteHyland]
* Action Item: support 2.2.2 - Vocabulary selection
20:33:30 [BernadetteHyland]
* Action Item: support 2.2.3 - URI Construction - Lift heavily from John Sheridan's, TO DO: Ask JimH (RPI A/C rep)
20:33:53 [BernadetteHyland]
* Action Item: support 2.2.4 - Versioning - related to data "cube". TO DO: Ask JimH (RPI A/C rep) if interested? volunteer: Cory agreed to work on expanding wiki if no one else volunteers.
20:33:59 [BernadetteHyland]
* Action Item: support 2.2.5 - Stability - volunteer: Anne Washington
20:34:04 [BernadetteHyland]
* Action Item: support 2.2.6 - Legacy data - volunteer: Irene Polikoff
20:34:10 [BernadetteHyland]
* Action Item: support: 2.2.7 - Cookbook - volunteer: Bernadette. Agreed to provide extended table of contents & abstract
20:34:21 [BernadetteHyland]
* Action Item: support 2.3.1 Standard Vocabularies - Metadata. Volunteer: TO DO: Ask for Richard Cyganiak. Dan Gilman prepared to review what comes out of this area.
20:34:32 [BernadetteHyland]
* Action Item: support 2.3.2 - Statistical "cube" data. Volunteer: TO DO: Ask for Richard Cyganiak (DERI). Dan Gilman to review
20:34:39 [BernadetteHyland]
* Action Item: support 2.3.3 - Standard Vocabularies - People. Volunteer: Chris Musialek (GSA), Cory. Tina prepared to review.
20:35:39 [BernadetteHyland]
20:38:58 [BernadetteHyland]
Anne: The eGov IG will get started soon.
20:39:44 [sandro]
RRSAgent, make minutes
20:39:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate sandro
20:44:38 [Zakim]
20:44:39 [Zakim]
SW_e-Gov(GLDWG)8:00AM has ended
20:44:41 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.703.292.aaaa, HadleyBeeman, martinAlvarez, boris, +1.303.275.aadd, bkaempgen, DruidSmith, +49.261.287.aaee, Jeanne, SimonWall, BartVanLeeuwen, +49.261.287.aagg,
20:44:44 [Zakim]
... martin, +1.703.292.aahh, SimpsonTP_, [IPcaller], MeetingRoom
21:14:44 [tobo]
tobo has joined #gld
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tobo has left #gld